Add RSS RSS

Talking about Skanks With Daniel Solove
(Or: How To Become the Legal Expert On Privacy in Less Than 10 Years)

cohen port skanks in nyc.jpgWe mentioned the ‘Skanks in NYC’ case in yesterday’s Morning Docket, and I’ve written about it extensively over at True/Slant.

To summarize: a blogger started a website called ‘Skanks in NYC’ in order to say nasty things about model Liskula Cohen. Cohen discovered the site containing just five posts, in which the blogger called Cohen a skank, a ho, and an old hag, among other nasty things, and posted photos of her.

Cohen decided she wanted to file a defamation suit against the anonymous blogger, so her lawyer subpoenaed Google — which hosted ‘Skanks in NYC’ at Blogger — to obtain the writer’s e-mail and IP address. The blogger’s lawyer fought the subpoena but lost. Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Joan Madden ordered Google to turn over the information. Google sent it along. Cohen filed her defamation suit outing her alleged defamer: Rosemary Port, a 29-year-old Fashion Institute of Technology student who was mad at Cohen for saying nasty things about her to Port’s boyfriend.

The press wrote lots of stories about the case and about Port, whose name the media obtained from court papers. Cohen then dropped her $3 million defamation suit, making it appear that this may have been a Cyberslapp: “a new form of lawsuit… threatening to overturn the promise of anonymous online speech and chill the freedom of expression that is central to the online world.”

Now Port wants to slap Google with a $15 million lawsuit, saying Google violated her First Amendment rights by complying with the court order. Her lawyer went so far as to compare ‘Skanks in NYC’ with the Federalist Papers. From the New York Daily News:

“I’m ready to take this all the way to the Supreme Court,” [Port’s lawyer, Salvatore] Strazzullo said. “Our Founding Fathers wrote ‘The Federalist Papers’ under pseudonyms. Inherent in the First Amendment is the right to speak anonymously. Shouldn’t that right extend to the new public square of the Internet?”

It’s been widely reported, but what are the actual merits of the suit against Google? We spoke with renowned privacy expert and George Washington Law professor Daniel Solove about the case and have an answer for you after the jump. While we had him on the phone, we also discussed how one becomes the foremost U.S. expert on privacy by age 37.

dan solove privacy expert above the law.jpgSo what do you think of Rosemary Port’s threatened lawsuit against Google?

It’s a really interesting case. But if Google was complying with a court order, I don’t know what the cause of action would be.

So that’s a no-go…

The case does raise interesting issues about privacy and anonymity online, though. It’s improper to use the legal process to unmask anonymous bloggers. Courts should be very reluctant to force that unmasking. There should be a very high standard to get that identity, and the identity should be kept confidential for as long as possible.

A plaintiff needs to show they can survive summary judgment — the Doe vs. Cahill standard — and show that they have the ability to take the case to trial. Anyone can bring a case and make a complaint. That’s not enough to override the First Amendment right of the anonymous speaker.

Surviving a motion to dismiss is not a good standard. That’s not very hard. After discovery is done and summary judgment made, that’s when identity should be revealed. If the plaintiff survives that, the case is going to trial. The plaintiff should have to make a showing that, without the identity, there’s no other way to get the information for the suit…

There should be rules against parties using suits to disclose identities.

I support a high standard when it comes to unmasking anonymous speakers, but I do think speakers should be unmasked when there’s a valid invasion of privacy or defamation claim.

The Internet shouldn’t mean that people have unbridled freedom to do things they wouldn’t do before without repercussions. We have an unprecedented power to broadcast something to the entire world. Never before in history have you had the power to do this without the aid of the mainstream media.

The argument against that standard would be that you need the identity during discovery…

One element of defamation is malice. How can you show malice without knowing who the person is? If you don’t have the identity, you don’t have to show that element.

Alternatively, disclose the identity to the plaintiff, but do so under a protective order.

Ed. note: You can read more about Solove’s thoughts on the Skanks case at Concurring Opinions.

How did you get interested in privacy issues?

In law school in the 90s, I took one of the early Internet law classes with Jack Balkin. Back then, the Internet was just getting popular. There were lots of legal issues emerging and I knew that a lot would be happening with cyberlaw. I was very interested in constitutional law, the First and Fourth Amendments, but there are so many scholars already writing about that. But cyberlaw was still an open field with lots of theoretical questions to be explored.

At the time, privacy was an issue that no one was writing much about. So I sat down and read everything on it — which was possible at that time! — and then I wrote an article about it [in 1999; the piece, Privacy and Power: Computer Databases and Metaphors for Information Privacy, was published by the Stanford Law Review in 2001.] It took me a while to get it published, though the unpublished version helped me to secure a teaching position at Seton Hall.

Ed. note: To give a little biographical background, Dan graduated from Yale Law School in 1997. Then he clerked for Judge Stanley Sporkin on the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Then he worked at Arnold & Porter in Washington, D.C., and then went back to clerking, for Judge Pamela Ann Rymer, on the Ninth Circuit. After During the second clerkship, he went onto the teaching market.

I started teaching a privacy law course at Seton Hall [in 2000]. I originally thought I would write that first article on privacy and then move on to other cyberlaw topics, but there were just more and more privacy issues to tackle. Aspen Publishing contacted me and asked me to work on a privacy law casebook. I continued writing more privacy articles…

All of a sudden, people considered me an expert in privacy. And the field just keeps expanding.

Is there a field — like privacy in the late 90s — that you’d point to today that prospective legal scholars could dive into and make their own?

I’m not as in touch with other fields now, so it’s hard for me to say. There’s still a lot in the field of privacy left unexplored. Until the 90s, privacy torts were mainly linked to defamation. They were covered in advanced torts class and maybe in First Amendment classes. Now, the field has really opened up.

Privacy is such a wide-ranging, amorphous concept that it can be hard to pin down. How do you choose what to focus on?

I just write about what’s interesting to me. The fight over ‘what privacy is’ is a bit of a sideshow. Having a concept of privacy is important, but I’m more enamored of a pragmatic philosophy. I look to John Dewey. We should look at the problems and start there, rather than looking at a broad abstract concept and proceeding from there.

I see this a lot in the law: the fact that a lot of times, if the court is deciding a Fourth Amendment issue and defines a very narrow concept of privacy, and if it’s somehow not privacy, it doesn’t deserve Fourth Amendment protection. But it is a problem and needs to be addressed even it doesn’t fall into privacy exactly. I wrote Understanding Privacy because we need to address these problems.

Like with surveillance. Being watched makes people feel ill at ease…. The law says surveillance is only prohibited when it invades privacy. And if you’re in public, there’s no protection against surveillance. But surveillance in public can be used to violate rights, like those of demonstrators. The narrow conception of privacy gets in the way of addressing real problems.

In the case of surveillance, the problems could be addressed by limiting retention of data or setting guidelines on how that surveillance data can be used.

Dan, you’ve told me you’re working on a novel this summer. Is this your first time delving into fiction writing?

Yes. It’s nice not to be doing legal writing. Last year, on a lark, I decided to give it a try.

Are you finding it harder or easier than your usual writing?

When I’m doing legal or academic writing, I know what I need to do for a successful article. I know the beginning and end, and can be a good self-critic. Plus, it’s much easier for me to publish that work with law reviews or academic presses.

With fiction, I’m not as certain it will be published and read. And my internal critic is not as strong. Is it good? Is it not? How do I know when it’s done?

But it’s liberating to imagine things, create characters, instead of making arguments and citing things. It’s nice just to write a scene.

Are you planning on incorporating or translating your ideas about privacy into your novel?

I actually didn’t want to do anything having to do with my field. I have other things to think about other than privacy. This fiction break wouldn’t have been as fun and as interesting [had I used it to tackle more privacy issues].


Dan Solove didn’t want to talk about the specifics of the novel, but described it as “mixed genre literary fantasy.”

Dan, thanks for indulging our fantasy — picking your brain about privacy issues. Good luck with the novel!

Can You Be Sued for Unmasking an Anonymous Blogger? [Concurring Opinions]
‘Skanks in NYC’ blogger plans $15 million lawsuit against Google [True/Slant]
Outed blogger Rosemary Port blames model Liskula Cohen for ‘skank’ stink [New York Daily News]

Comments

avatar
1 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:57 PM

How did Milbank fall to 31 on vault list??? btw First

avatar
2 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:57 PM

First to say the right to privacy is made up

avatar
3 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:03 PM

( . )( . )

avatar
4 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:03 PM

I'm glad states are invoking Anti-SLAPP provisions so I can call MysTTTal the fucktard he is.

avatar
5 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:12 PM

2: EVERYTHING is made up: law, religion, language, morality, literature. If we Americans can invent a "right" to keep muskets in our communities to repel foreign invading armies or homegrown despots, then surely we can invent a right to something so obviously valuable as privacy.

avatar
6 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:14 PM

5, rights are created by people when they agree to a social contract binding on everyone, like the constitution. if you want to create the right to privacy, just add it to the constitution since everyone will agree it's important.

avatar
7 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:15 PM

5: I think he means that the right is made up in a CONSTITUTIONAL sense, not in an ontological sense, which would be a mundane observation.

avatar
8 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:17 PM

6: I don't see why I would need to add it--the right to privacy is already enshrined in the Constitution, per our social contract. See, e.g., Roe v. Wade.

5

avatar
9 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:21 PM

7: Obvi. And my point was that all rights are made up.

avatar
10 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:21 PM

5/8: You need to bring yourself up to speed on the literature re: Roe v. Wade and whether the right to privacy is in the Constitution. Have you taken Con Law yet?

-7

avatar
11 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:23 PM

WOW. Somebody here needs a refresher on the 9th Amendment.

avatar
12 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:24 PM

Kash seems a little obsessed with skanks.

avatar
13 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:24 PM

FWIW, the full text of the Manhattan Supreme Court order is found here:

http://bit.ly/11B5T0

avatar
14 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:25 PM

5/8: That was not your point, since you said "literature" is made up. "Literature" is not a right. Nor is "morality." The right to freedom of expression, of course, is, and a basis for copyright exists in the constitution, but using literature and morality is a very haphazard way of talking about these latter two.

avatar
15 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:26 PM

11, you mean like the phrase "The Ninth Amendment obviously does not create federally enforceable rights" in Doe v. Bolton?

avatar
16 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:36 PM

I suppose that I should know this, but is the school where Mr. Solove teaches, George Washington University Law School, accredited by the American Bar Association? Is Professor Solove a member of SALT?

avatar
17 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:38 PM

I'm just very surprised that the decision itself ( http://www.reputationdefenderblog.com/2009/08/19/update-full-text-of-the-liskula-cohen-court-order-responding-to-subpoena-of-google-to-id-anonymous-blogger/ ) barely touches the First Amendment issues that Solove is talking about . It seems odd that all the First Amendment issues are buried in a footnote (fn5) instead of body text. I don't know the extent to which the issue was briefed, but it seems rather important.

I'm surprised that the blogger didn't seek an emergency stay of the decision pending appeal. After all, her name is the sort of thing that's hard to put back into the bag once it's out, and an emergency stay for First Amendment reasons is one of the few emergency stays that a court would happily entertain. The equities would be strongly in favor of a stay since the harm of releasing the blogger's name is irreparable.

Then again, I'm sure PE has something to say about skanks in New York.

avatar
18 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:39 PM

Hey 15, next time you wanna play gotcha quotes, how about citing the actual opinion?

http://supreme.justia.com/us/410/179/case.html

(Oh right, because that quote is from a Douglas concurrence and doesn't even come close to eviscerating the 9th Amendment as you'd like to believe.)

avatar
19 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:45 PM

14: As is the case with law, other treasured and seemingly immutable features of life and human communities are also invented at some point: these things include, among others, religion, language, morality, literature. These things did not arrive to us on the 8th day fully formed. But just as law is indispensible and even foundational in the case of the U.S., the fact that religion, language, morality and literature are invented does not lessen their value as reflections of, observations on, and ordering forces for the human condition.

In sum, the observation that the right to privacy was made up is boring. So was every other right.

avatar
20 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:53 PM

8: Did you really just rely on Roe v. Wade? How about a Restatement 90 argument, as the curious should be estopped from invading your privacy as you did not invade theirs? The argument is no doubt equally sophisticated in the eyes of ATL commenters.

5: Nevermind, you've already been smoked out. Go back to looking at your kiddie porn and the quiet enjoyment of your "right" to "privacy."

Gotta love how quick people are to add their name to the authors of the Fed Papers - because getting caught cheating or smoking crack is oh so comparable to execution for treason.

avatar
21 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:01 PM

19: You still don't seem to understand. No one is talking about abstractions that may or may not exist in the real world.

2's point was much simpler. He was merely saying that the Constitution does not include privacy as a right. Rather, the right was read into the Constitution by the Supreme Court (hence the debate about the 9th Amendment in the posts above). I'm not necessarily agreeing with him. I'm just clarifying what he meant. He was not saying that the right to privacy was an invention of mankind. It's very obvious that all rights are "made up." But that was not 2's point, his point was that CONSTITUTIONALLY the right to privacy is made up, while the right to freedom of expression, right to bear arms, etc. are not.

On a completely unrelated note, and if you'd like to continue this discussion, I would like to add that I do not believe moral rights are inventions created out of thin air to help humanity survive. I believe there are moral facts about the world, even if empirically they may be unverifiable. I would hazard that they just haven't been discovered yet.

7/14

avatar
22 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:10 PM

1-21: God, law students are such dorks.

avatar
23 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:23 PM

As someone had many cases before Justice Madden and argued many motions, she is one of the few justices in New York State Supreme that actually reads the motion papers prior to oral argument and engages in reasonable discourse with the parties. She's a very good judge, so I'm going to trust her on this decision.

avatar
24 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:21 PM

I love this picture.

avatar
25 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:21 PM

If the court ordered Google to turn over the information, what possible grounds are there for suing Google?

I could see an appeal of the decision, but it just makes no sense to sue Google.

avatar
26 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:48 AM

Actually, it makes sense to sue Google - the claim would quite obviously be that Google turned over her private information without her consent, thereby violating any state right to privacy she has as well as any right to privacy guaranteed to her by Google's Terms of Use.

The issue isn't that she doesn't have a cause of action; it's that Google has an unassailable defense. The court ORDERED them to turn over the information. What were they supposed to do, be held in contempt for violating the court order? I'm also assuming here, of course, that Google had the basic foresight to include in its TOU/TOS a provision that any promises and representations, such as their agreement to keep personal information confidential, were subject to a court order to the contrary. If Google did NOT have such foresight, they might actually be in trouble (although I'm not a NY lawyer so I don't know what the law is there. In some jurisdictions, though, it could spell trouble). And, if Google did NOT have such foresight -- Google, you need to hire better lawyers. I'm available and can move to Mountain View on a moment's notice!

Finally, can we get rid of this silly conceit that all forms of speech are inherently equal? They aren't. An asshole's right to call another woman a skank simply is NOT on the same order of importance as the Federalist papers, and her lawyer ought to be ashamed of himself for making such a farcical comparison. Perhaps there should be different standards for anonymity depending on the content of the speech (that's right, I said content-based). For instance, commercial speech is subject to stricter regulations than other kinds of speech. Why can't the same be said of speech that is purely gossip?

avatar
27 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18 AM

Wouldn't the better suit be against Cohen for abuse of process? Doesn't look to me like the insults reported in this article would be sufficient to support a defamation case. It also appears that the suit was brought for an improper purpose. I don't see how Port can realistically win a suit against Google since they were merely complying with a court order. You kind of have to follow those even when you disagree!

avatar
28 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:50 AM

Thanks for the article, Kash. I'm a first-year privacy attorney and it's nice to see the field finally getting some attention.

avatar
29 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:11 AM

27, Google has much bigger pockets than some random model.

avatar
30 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:48 AM

Kash Rules Everything Around Me.

K.R.E.A.M.

avatar
31 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:02 PM

Let me state the obvious. The US Constitution does not apply to Google or any other person or entity...it only applies to governments.

BTW: Who's the chick in the black and white photo???

avatar
32 Posted by guest | Permalink Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:16 PM

Truth is an absolute defense to defamation.

avatar
33 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:24 AM

Skanks. Man, we talkin' 'bout skanks...

avatar
34 Posted by guest | Permalink Monday, August 31, 2009 10:50 AM

Nice interview, Kash!

Post Your Comment