The Asia Chronicles: China’s Economy Surging / List of Some Urgent Asia Job Openings (July 27, ‘09 Post)
[Ed. note: This post is authored by Evan Jowers and Robert Kinney of Kinney Recruiting, sponsor of the Asia Chronicles. Kinney has made more placements of U.S. associates and partners in Asia than any other firm in the past two years. You can reach them by email: asia at kinneyrecruiting dot com.]
Evan here. Apologies for no new post last week, as Robert and I have been extremely busy and also traveling quite a bit. Our Asia team as a whole, including Alexis Lamb, Yuliya Vinokurova, Robert and me, are representing more qualified US biglaw attorney candidates for Asia than at any other time prior. While some of these even highly qualified candidates will be on a longer term job search involuntarily (due to the market), and others are contacting us with plans to move to Asia in a year or two (over half of our Asia placements have been of US associates that contacted us a year or more before starting a job search), we are seeing a surge in active interviews and hiring in Asia, especially Hong Kong / China, for our most qualified candidates.
Things continue to pick up dramatically in the China economy, as a successful stimilus and increased lending are helping the stock indexes in HK / China surge. The Shanghai Index has now doubled its global recession low in November ‘08. The Shanghai Index is the world’s best performing stock market, having gained 89% this year thus far. Earlier this month, China briefly overtook Japan as the world’s second largest stock market by value and is likely to soon overtake Japan indefinitely. Atlhough there will most likely be a correction in the market later this year, with stocks in China being too expenseive, on average trading at 37 times earnings, it is clear that China’s domestic economy is quite strong, on the rebound, and growing rapidly.
I say the domestic economy because there is a perception out there that China’s economy is heavily reliant on exports to the west, but in reality it is becoming more and more of a consumer driven economy. For example, consumers in China now buy more new cars and gold than any other country in the world and not so long ago it would have been unthinkable that the US and India would not be those leaders, repsectively, indefinitely. Some countries, such as Australia for example, have become quite reliant on exports to China rather than vice versa. While of course, the China economy benefits greatly from the US and other Western markets importing goods from China, and there is of course a very substantial manufacturing industry in China that relies on demand from west, there has been some decoupling of China’s economy from the US economy. The global downturn has made this reality more clear and has surprised many economic experts that felt certain that China’s economy would suffer a major and long-term blow from the serious recession in western markets.
***More after the jump.
A minority view is that the increased lending is creating the same sort of dissastrous bubble in China’s economy that happened in US markets, but in my opinion, that is just an assumption that events of the recent past will repeat itself in another part of the world where the facts are not the same, where the lending is not tied to the same toxic assets as was the case in West. There is very likely a small bubble in stock market prices, according to the majority view, and maybe even real estate, but not in the overall economy in China. A healthy correction in the equity market in China is not going to cause any serious problems and will not keep China’s economy from continuing to surge on.
What does China’s surging economy mean for lateral hiring of US attorneys in China specifically and Asia in general? It is of course helpful on that front in HK / China, but patience is still needed re all Asia job searches, including HK / China. US practices, including some that are slammed and understaffed just recently, are being cautious in hiring and some will remain on hiring freeze (a directive from their US home offices) in 2nd half ‘09. Hiring of US associates has picked up a lot in HK / China from what was a dead period during the first 5 months this year, but it is still not near the level of even mid ‘08, when the Asia markets started to decline. We expect things to continue to pick up in US associate lateral hiring in Asia, mainly in HK / China, during the 2nd half of ‘09. Many US firms and US practices of British firms have considerable expansion plans on the drawing board for Asia and as the US economy rebounds eventually, there will be more and more investment and expansion in Asia by US firms. In the mean time, as some US practices become understaffed in Asia, especially in HK / China, there will be more and more hiring (or in some cases, more transfers and secondments within firms).
Here are some of our more pressing US attorney needs in Asia:
*PE / M&A - 3 to 5 years - Shanghai (Mandarin not required, but commitment to SHG is)
-new hire likely to come from NYC market.
*corporate in-house (international chemicals and materials company) - 15+ years of experience - Hong Kong
-new hire likely to come from HK / China, will be most senior legal officer of company in Asia Pacific region
*PE / M&A - partner level - Hong Kong
-new hire likely to come from Asia market
*fund formation - partner level - Hong Kong
-new hire likely to come from Hong Kong or NYC
*M&A - class of ‘08 (or ‘09 that has been deferred) - Tokyo - native Japanese required
-new hire likely to come from US markets
*M&A - 4+ years - Tokyo - Japanese required
-new hire likely to come from NYC or Tokyo market
*Cap Markets - 5 to 10 years - Hong Kong (native Mandarin required)
-new hire likely to come from HK / China or NYC market
*Cap markets / M&A - 1 to 3 years - Hong Kong (Korean required)
-new hire likely to come from HK / China or NYC market
*M&A - 4 to 7 years - Hong Kong (native Mandarin required)
-new hire likely to come from NYC or HK
*M&A - 1 to 7 years - HK qualification required
-new hire likely to come from HK market
*Finance - 2 to 5 years - Hong Kong (native Korean required)
-new hire likely to come from NYC market.
*PE / M&A - 2 to 5 years - Beijing (Mandarin required)
-new hire likely to come from NYC market
*Project Finance - 2 to 5 years - Tokyo (Korean required)
-new hire likely to come from NYC market
(55) 
Comments
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Based on this and previous posts, it looks like there are 0 openings for India practices?
these are the most urgent openings and not by any means a full list of the openings in the Asia markets. There is some interviewing going on for India practices, but not very urgent openings yet.
Which are the best biglaw shops with an India based practice Evan? How many lawyers typically on such practices?
Evan, Thanks for the information. Do you know any associate openings in HK/Beijing for fund formation? Thanks.
#3 - he obviously doesn't give two shits about India's legal market. Stop asking.
5, he would be stupid not to care given the consistent amount of interest indicated on this blog...
-Not 3
6 - two consistent trolls doesn't make something worthy of attention.
Why is Korean needed in Tokyo?
8, it is for a Korea focused practice in Tokyo. As you are probably aware, South Korea has not yet opened its markets to foreign law firms having offices there. As of September '09, foreign firms from countries that have signed and ratified free trade agmt / treaty with South Korea will be able to open offices, but US has not ratified such an agmt with SK. In any event, for some years in the future, even when US firms can open offices in Korea, there will be Korea practices concentrated in HK and Tokyo (with HK having most of them).
3, I did not answer quickly because I was traveling most of yesterday. But, keep in mind, as i have written in comment replies previously in past month or two, US and UK firms in Asia are not urgently hiring for their India practice at this time. There is some interviewing going on, but it is hard for firms to get clearance from home offices in US and UK to make hires and those hires are mostly being limited to HK, China and Korea focused practices right now. India is of course a big focus for expansion of many firms and there will be more hiring in India practices as the global market starts to improve more. With that said, I am representing a few highly qualified US assodciates with Indian background, who are interviewing with firms in HK and Singapore (although some of the interviewing is more on informational basis).
Here are some of the better India practices:
Freshfileds
Cleary
Linklaters
Herbert Smith
Clifford Chance
White & Case
Davis Polk
Latham
Ashurst
Gibson Dunn
Jones Day
Shearman
I probably left out a few notables and apologize for that...
4, yes, a few at the mid to senior associate levels.
Thanks Evan
Any opportunities for litigation associates in china?
13, If you are a US litigation associate and want to lateral to HK / China, it will of course be difficult. There are opportunities here and there at HK litigation practices, as sometimes they consider US junior to mid-level litigators candidates, but these would be under the HK practice of course and at lower pay rate than in US practices in HK.
Ooops. 14 was me. Was not logged in....
Evan, 13 here, thanks for the info.
Given that it is very difficult for a litigation associate to find a job in HK/China, how easy is it so switch from litigation to corporate and move to HK/China?
I'm a third year associate, graduated from Harvard with law review and top grades and have been working at a V5 firm. Also, I can speak Mandarin fluently...
16, it is quite possible to make the move switching to corporate. However, the lateral market will need to pick up before that would be easy. In '06 and '07, for example, you could have easily made such a move with your current background (I made many such placements in those years and up until early '08). In the current climate some firms would consider but it could be difficult to get offers (not a lot of openings and firms have their pick of candidates). Feel free to reach out to me at evan@kinneyrecruiting.com if you would like to discuss in more detail.
Hi Evan, I want to know whether you currently have openings for Bankruptcy/Finance Associates in Greater China. Thanks a lot.
Hi Evan, I want to know whether you currently have openings for Bankruptcy/Finance Associates in Greater China. Thanks a lot.
just wondering why you'll respond to comments to your posts here, sometimes within minutes and almost always within 24 hrs, yet you don't return emails...?
20, I can't respond to every email, as there are too many coming in for any one person to respond to. You can always try me again or reach out to Robert, Alexis or Yuliya (@kinneyrecruiting.com).
Of course I have to prioritize responses to those that are current clients and those that are the most qualified to move to be placed in Asia this year or next.
I am happy to give up a lot of my time every day in discussing the market with all comers, but I can't respond to all emails and you are not owed a response by anyone that you may email for free advice about your career and the Asia markets in general.
18, a few firms are interviewing mid-level to senior finance associates but there are no urgent openings. Bankruptcy is not a practice area that you can stay focused in if lateraling to Asia.
Evan, are there any opportunities for expats in Vietnam, preferably Saigon?
23, probably is, but I don't work that market... Sorry... There are just not enough major international law firms, i-banks and funds there to make it worthwhile as a market for me.
You wrote Asia Chronicles in Arabic incorrectly. Just sayin...
25, Thanks for the heads up.
For what it's worth Evan, I was with you in your response to 20 until that last part at the end about "and you are not owed a response by anyone that you may email for free advice about your career and the Asia markets in general". That's kind of a jerky thing to say to someone in light of the fact that you use this website as a forum to promote your business and you guys consistently tell people to email you with questions. In that sense, a request for "free advice" is really more taking you up on the offer you are making in your promotion. Not to mention the fact that "free advice" often turns into a profitable relationship - I'd think someone of your experience would know a simple business premise like that.
Regardless, the rest of your comment was perfectly reasonable and sufficient to explain to 20 why you didn't respond. The last 21 words just make you sound petulant and immature. FWIW.
27, I don't know what FWIW means, is that some kind of declaration of your personality or physical traits? If you had as many emails as I do a day, you would realize that you can't respond to all of them. I spend hours a day giving free advice to people (advice that will likely never turn into a placement fee now or in future years but that is fine with me) so I feel perfectly comfortable in that regard. I am happy to give such advice, even if the person seeking it is still in law school or not yet in law school or working in litigation in Oklahoma and wants to move to Shanghai) However, those seeking free advice / consultation from anyone, whether it be me or someone else, whether it be with regards to career or some other issue, should not expect that it is owed to them simply because they send an email. I am happy to give free adivce to people for hours a day, but the marketing effort here is of course not trying to set up a free advcie charitable hotline (and I don't recall any "promotion" like that), but instead to introduce our serivces to those qualified candidates, associates at top law firms with solid academics (we represent partners too but these posts are more geared to associates) who are considering a move to Asia or within Asia now or in the next few years. The point we try to make is that most of our many placements in Asia are of attorneys that we have known and helped plan such a move for 6 months to 2 years prior to them starting a job search.
Hi Evan, How's the Singapore market doing? Is hiring up for juniors to mid levels?
29, There is not much hiring or interviewing going on for juniors anywhere now, but we do have some mid-levels interviewing in Singapore. For junior associates, '07 and '08, we only have a few associates in 2nd round + interviews now in Asia, in HK / China and Tokyo, and they have very impressive credentials.
A few months ago Evan talked to me for two hours about my future career, hopefully in Asia. I am only going into my 2L year so that was appreciated. He clearly makes time for a lot of people that he can't place at law firms.
Cliff notes: China/Hong Kong are in a wild-ass bubble. Come work here for a few years until it all blows up and then go back to the States, or just sit at home unemployed for 2+ years until the States recover.
31 = Evan. I mean is there ANY doubt?!
33, why would Evan want more law students to call him? Do you really think he is pretending to be a law student that talked with him for hours about a future career, suggesting that more law students should call him and talk for hours about their career?
Evan placed me in California a couple of years ago and I have had a great experience working with him and later going to him for advice about a future move to Asia I may make. I am sure there are hundreds of biglaw associates that have had positive experiences with Evan, even if just a phone call.
Evan has placed so many associates in Asia and US over the years that I would think that he would pretend to be one of those before pretending to be a law student praising his advice. Of course, it is ridiculous to think that Evan comes on this board pretending to someone praising himself.
Evan - you missed the point: 27 was just commenting on the professionalism of your response not the actual substance which it sounded like he/she agreed with. you might want to be less defensive about that.
also, i'm just guessing but since the first four words of the post were "for what it's worth" that FWIW means that. i typed 'FWIW' into google and that appears to be the case from the 5 seconds i took to look it up.
PS. According to Wikipedia, "promotion" involves disseminating information about a product, product line, brand, or company. I think the term was correctly used.
32, I am not so sure there is bubble that will burst in few years. it is easy to predict that since bubble burst in west recently then there must be a bubble that will burst in Asia, that bubbles will form and urst all the time now... However, trying to predic t economy based on recent history is almost always wrong. It seems that the Shanghai Index has small bubble forming right now that will cause correction in the stock market in China later this year perhaps, but a healthy correction. In a few years, China will have even more consumer power than it does today (make no mistake about it, China is just as much a consumer economy as it is an export economy). Also, by then the US will be fully recovered and greatly helping China's export portion of its economy. So why would the big failure happen then?
Most so called experts in west simply could not believe that China's economy could rebound quicker than US (they also thought China's economy would dive right after US did, but it took a year for China's economy to seriously faulter). However, China has rebounded in a big way. So now some are predicting that it is just a big bubble forming. Yes, there has been a lot of lending in China, a ton of it, perhaps a bit too much, but that lending is not tied ot all the toxic assets that was tied to the overlending in US during recent boom.
I am not an economist but the above just seems like common sense to me. Of course, it is impossible to predict the future, especially when it comes to the economy. If economic scholars can't do it, then us laypersons can't do it either, but it makes for good discussion.
35, my point in the one comment above remains that I don't owe responses to every single one of the 100+ emails I usually receive each day. I try to respond to all but can't quite do it each and every day. I have to prioritize and can only spend so many hours a day giving asia market advice to law students and persons that likely can't move to biglaw in Asia at any point in the future. I probably can only respond to about 60% of the lower priority emails and am sorry that is the case, but it is just reality. I don't believe in canned rejection responses so any response from me is an email or phone call.
I enjoy giving advice to everyone, no matter how marketable they are in Asia at this time or in the future, but I simply don't have time to respond to all comers. Call it unprofessional if you want and we all know that most recruiters love calling themselves "professional" and complaining that others in the industry are not "professional" like they are... I have made a ton of placements in Asia and have a lot of information that I happily share on the market each day to as many people as I can. One of the main reasons of having this post series is to give out more information on the market because for some unknown reason it has been difficult over the years for US biglaw associates to get even basic info about biglaw and biglaw job searches in Asia.
Evan, how long do you think it will be before firms in China will start hiring associates again? I understand from friends there that firms are getting quite busy again.
Evan, do you guys help entry level associates that are interested in working in Asia? Many thanks.
39, it is extremely rare that we can represent recent JD graduates, with no associate experience, in their Asia job search. However, we are happy to give advice and help in any way we can when we have time to do so. In this strange market, when a lot of US firms are deferring their entry level hires for a year, we are seeing a few cases where US firms in Asia, which happen to be seeking entry level associates, will consider a very impressive recent grad, with native Japanese, Mandarin or Korean language skills, who has been given permanent offer by a firm, but has been deferred for a legnthy period.
interesting...
http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/03/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2009080315
Longer term, "I think Asia could lead us out of this worldwide slump," he said. "I think this time around we are not going to be the engines of growth, but we are going to benefit."
38, While US and UK firms in HK / China, in general, are hiring much more than they were earlier this year, it is still a very down lateral hiring market, with many firms on hiring freeze, especially re hires with only 1 to 3 years experience.
Yes, many US practices in HK / China are getting much busier in last couple of months than they were in about 9 months prior. However, even groups that become understaffed cannot necessarily hire as they would during a normal market. Until things improve in the US and other western markets, US and UK firms in Asia will have a relatively difficult time getting clearance from their home offices to make hires.
The 2nd half of '09 will likely see busier US practices in HK / China, with some becoming understaffed, but not the US associate lateral hiring to quite match the increase in work. The 2nd half of '09 will also likely see US firms scrambling a bit to prop up their '09 PEP numbers, which for most firms looks really bad for '09. These profit numbers can of course be improved by a reduction in expenses, so unfortunately there will likely be more layoffs and partner de-equitizing in the industry. Profit numbers can be critical to partner recruitment and also retention so it is going to be an important issue for firms. In such a climate, it is not so easy for even busy partners overseas to get clearance to make hires, especially junior hires, because juniors can more easily be brought over from US offices on secondment or permanent basis.
There will be more hiring in Asia in 2nd half '09 than first half. There is no doubt about that. HIring has picked up dramatically in the past few months already, but it is mostly mid-level to senior associates or counsel and strategic hires. That trend will likely continue in 2nd half '09, with only a small amount of 1st to 3rd year hires being made in early fall and perhaps through end year.
Once we get to November and December '09 and early '10, as long as the US markets are showing some continued improvement, firms will a) have less concern about '10 profit numbers than '09 (although many firms do end their financial year in spring or early summer) AND b) if US practices in HK / China have been very busy for 5+ months, rather than 2 months, there will be lot more pressure to staff those groups, notwithstanding the expense pressures coming from home offices.
So I think it will be at some point from November to February before more normal levels of hiring will occur in HK / China IF the market there continues to rebound strongly.
Most '09 and early '10 hires, however, will be of associates that have been in rather long-term discussions with their eventual new firms. It is a strange market where interviewing can start as informational discussions for some time and then morph into more formal interviewing that can take months to complete. US partners making hires in Asia these days and likely for about 9 months in the future are likely to hire those impressive candidates they have been talking with and have met in months prior. This is only natural...
Two points--
There's absolutely a huge bubble in China/HK. Do some research online, read some sources in Chinese as well as English. It's obvious. 'nough said.
Evan is absolutely the best recruiter in the China/HK market. I know several people he placed in the past and everyone was hugely impressed with him. He is very different from the resume courier type of recruiter which unfortunately accounts for about 90% of all legal recruiters. Evan knows exactly which law firm is looking for what kind of candidate and he can always get you interviews if you are the right fit. These openings more often than not are not publicly known, so Evan's knowledge is extremely valuable, particularly in this market. Whether or not you use Evan could mean whether or not you can get a job. I'm not exaggerating.
43 = Evan, wow it's getting pathetic
43, thanks for the compliments. It is much appreciated, although 44 and other recruiters on the board will never believe that I am not pretending to be you :-)
I agree that there is likely a bubble in the short term re the shanghai and hk stock indexes, and there could be healthy correction in stock prices later this year, but I don't think it is likely that there is a dramatic and recession causing bubble bursting that will happen in a few years, as 32 suggests. there has probably been over lending, yes, but that was necessary for China's economy to rebound as quickly as it did and this lending is not tied to the toxic assets that was the case in US and Western Europe in that big bublle bursting market of recent years.
The dissaster scenarios for a few years down the road sells some papers I think, but is far outweighed by the very positive outlook by economists on China's economy for the next handful of years, as is evidenced by various banks and other institutions continuously upgrading their prediction for China's economic growth in '09, '10 and '11.
In any event, what do I know about ecomics? :-) This is just my opinion and what I feel is the common sense way of looking at things. Just because a bubble burst in the US and Western Europe does not mean all hot markets will have bubbles dramatically bursting in the near to medium term future. China was under lending before and now there is some over lending (although the amount of over lending compared to when there was underlending is not necessarily the right way to look at it) but it is needed for rebound and not tied to toxic assets. The so called "experts" that predict doom and gloom in China to get attention for themselves will focus attention on the great expansion of lending in China, similar to recent Western bubble, and not the fact that it is not tied to toxic assets like in West.
There is also the fact that China is accomplishing this rebound with a still devastated export market and doing it with its own domestic consumer market, something that many experts thought not possible in '09. So the idea that China's economy will have a major and devastating bubble burst in a few years, when its export market will likely be up an running full speed again (as US markets finally recover fully in a few years), and the consumer market continues to grow (because of all the upside there), is just not logical in my layperson's opinion.
44, if you think these posts and comments "are getting pathetic" and Evan is laughably pretending to be the commentors, then why do you bother to read the posts, click on the comments, read through the comments, make comments about how pathetic the posts and comments are, then check back to see responses to your comment?
Perhaps you should just not read the sponsored posts? Or do you have some agenda, like being another recruiter...? Or are you just that bored?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&sid=aEn60_KvOOXg
I have worked with Evan in the past and can't say enough positive things about him, as a guide to an any biglaw associate's move to Hong Kong. I know many others that feel that same way, As it turns out, Evan did not place me because I took a position with a firm I had already worked for previously. Evan did help me get a few offers. I don't think you can understand how nice it is to have such a resource like Evan when you are making such a move. He can literally talk for hours about the market and specific firms and groups, and was an invaluable resource for me when I made the move. Evan fully supported my decision to join my old firm and his advice was not biased towards firms where he would have received a commission fee. Evan remains a trusted resource for me as I consider my future career options in HK / China, as well as potentially returning to US market. I am sure Evan is in part motivated by making a good living (who isn't?), but I can also tell that he loves what he does and is not just in it for the money, which is refreshing.
48, thanks for the nice compliment. Since I pretty much know who you are and you know that I know, let's plan to meet up for coffee / drinks / lunch when I am next in HK for most of September. I will be in Europe and Russia most of this month (for mostly personal reasons, as the Russia lateral market is still very dead). Shoot me an email and let's set up a time to chat, even if just about Bali plans...
Common mistake, there is no print in Arabic. The letters connect. Chicago 2016 did the same thing in a one page ad in the Trib.
echo 48's comments.
echo 48's comments.
Closed?
Hi Evan,
Thanks for your posts. As a Canadian, I enjoy reading them, as our national recruiters are extremely lacklustre in providing public information.
My question is: Do you ever recruit Canadian lawyers? I know that most of the locations where you place lawyers, is also full of Canadian lawyers. Can you comment?
Thanks!
54, Thanks for kind words.
I have moved some Canadian trained lawyers to US firms in Asia, but they all were moving from top US firms, mostly from NYC.
If you are at a corporate practice of a top Canadian firm or a US firm in Canada, and are fluent in Mandarin, then I suggest you get admitted in NY to greatly improve your chances of landing in Asia. It may take a while though because hiring market is still slow and is overcrowded with qualified candidates. The associates being hired for US practices now in Asia are mainly from the very top US firms.