Okay, this chick's suit is retarded.

That being said, hey, are the bar exam results out yet?!?

This is only a story because of the color of her skin.

This is outrageous! Only large banks should have their mistakes forgiven.

"She graduated in April, hasn't been able to find a job in a scant five months during the worst recession since the Great Depression, and now she wants a refund on her education?"

In addition to not being able to write, MysTTTal either can't subtract or doesn't know what month it is. It's August and, hence, four months since she graduated. Less than that, really, since August just started.

Sure, this is bunk, but I do wonder why a law school hasn't been taken to task for blatantly lying in its recruiting material given to prospective students. I've seen materials citing median salaries that are either blatantly false or based upon purposely shallow data. I'm shocked why this hasn't been brought up before.

Prior preparation prevents poor performance.

What's a Monroe College?

They advertise on the subway, what did she expect?

Hey hey
Ho Ho
Moron Mystttal has got to go!

Feeding the trolls:

Section 90 claim?

11, no it's more like a Good Samaritan liability claim.

Monroe College is a for-profit institution. I don't hear the alma matter swelling in the background, just a cash register.

Well even though I think Elie's loan forgiveness ideas are pretty darn stupid and usually just put on here for flame reasons I'll note there is another reason why this is different than law school.

With law school there is an argument to be made that going to the Top 10, Top 14, Top whatever schools makes a humongous difference in post-law school graduation employment options. Well, at least it did pre-2007. So even though the Top 14 or so usually put you six digits in debt you were in the past usually pretty secure in being able to get a good job.

Here, however, this student went to some sh*tty private school that is not opening up any doors. She racked up a bunch of extra student debt needlessly. I'm sure she could've gone to some CUNY or SUNY public school and had the same post-graduation options and spent much, much less on tuition. And some of the CUNY or SUNY schools are well regarded in NYC.

monroe is for retard poors with tramp stamps and neck tattoos.
they go there because they were too stupid to think about their future while they were cutting school, drinking, smoking weed, and engaging in intercourse with multiple partners.
its only until they realize when they burn their hand slightly on the mcdonalds fryer "im better than this!!!" so they say "let me go to school and make me the big bucks yeah and have a nice cushy office yeah""
and the only school that will take them is a TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT monroe which offers ttt programs in culinary school and being an assistant to every decent job imaginable (assistant plumber/dentist/nurse/forensics).
she gets what she deserves and paid for.

monroe is for retard poors with tramp stamps and neck tattoos.
they go there because they were too stupid to think about their future while they were cutting school, drinking, smoking weed, and engaging in intercourse with multiple partners.
its only until they realize when they burn their hand slightly on the mcdonalds fryer "im better than this!!!" so they say "let me go to school and make me the big bucks yeah and have a nice cushy office yeah""
and the only school that will take them is a TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT monroe which offers ttt programs in culinary school and being an assistant to every decent job imaginable (assistant plumber/dentist/nurse/forensics).
she gets what she deserves and paid for.

You might recall that someone sues their bottom tier law school every so often, with some similarly un-cognizable claim, because they can't find a job and feel they were misled by the school. It's been happening pretty regularly since well before the End of The World. And, of course, the suits get thrown out.

PE is a cock-watcher.

If she is African American, they should refund her money immediately. If she is white, they should charge her double.

Malcolm Sex

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that Monroe college acted stupidly in admitting somebody when there was already proof that they were unemployable; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of underperforming African-Americans and Latinos being admitted to schools disproportionately. That's just a fact.

-- Barack Obama

Took me a year with no help from University of Arizona law. I thought about suing them....probably still should. Inflated employment numbers, no assistance from CSO, debt...

I think she's got a good case. I'd make it...and if she wins, you can bet Congress will get moving on Student Loan forgiveness a lot quicker.

15/16 had me nodding until i realized it was a troll :(

They offer a concentration in "Baking and Pastry." This is a trade school, not a college.

20 -

Do you think that maybe your high opinion of her claim and your inability to find work for a year are, uh, somehow related?

Speaking for all potential employers of the Plaintiff out there, I would just be thrilled to hire someone prone to filing lawsuits so obviously without merit.

15/16 - subtle plumbing troll.

Did she go to law school by her own choice? Did she elect to use student loans to do so, again, by her own choice?

Undergraduate education isn't to get a job. It is to enrich people so that they can be contributing members of society. Grad schools specialize so that you can get a job. An undergrad program for job placement is pretty much high school math with ashtrays.

Too bad for her. And no, the government should not be bailing people out for their student loans. What a joke.

An academic insitution misrepresenting emplyment and salary stats???

Perosh the thought. This would never happen at an ABA accredited law school.

People need to be aware of the educational loan complex.

An academic insitution misrepresenting employment and salary stats???

Perish the thought! This would never happen at an ABA accredited law school.

People need to be aware of the educational loan complex.

23 - As is obvious from my comment my high opinion of her claim, stems from my low opinion of U of AZ's career services office.

14,000 legal employees have been laid off over the last two years. or do you just read the comments on ATL and not the stories. douche.

26, you must be new around here if you expect people to take personal responsibility for their own debts (mortgage "modifications", student loan bailouts, etc).
Change we can believe in.

31 - Touche you douche. So it is the fault of the school's career services that no one wants to hire you? Yes, of course. Always the victim, never the victor.

31 -

Look man, I've been laid off. I'm just saying that her claim is obviously retarded and if you regard it as potentially valuable, then you must also be retarded. So, no offense intended, obviously.

Also, I'm not a stickler for grammar in blog comments, but punctuation is nevertheless your friend, supplying sense to your otherwise unreadable sentences. Look into it.

Fuck you, you fat pinko son of a bitch. Communism is totalitarian by design, a philosophy of *dictatorship* of the proletariat, and the most anti-individualist creed the western world has seen. Marx was an evil bastard.

33 - Fully and happily employed now, after that year, no thanks to U of A. And very very secure. How many alumni contributions do you think I'll make?

What goes around, comes around.

35--
Now that's political debate we can live with. Thank you for broadening my intellecutal horizons for the day.

23, 31, 33, 34, et cet-- you guys break it up.

AZ guy is clearly retarded, though.

STUDENT INDEBTEDNESS IS A CHOICE. NO BAILOUT OR RELIEF FOR ANYONE STUPID ENOUGH TO TAKE OUT LOANS TO PAY FOR SCHOOL THEY CANNOT AFFORD. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO GO TO HARVARD AND SIT ON YOUR ASS HOPING TO RIDE THE PEDIGREE WAGON, GO TO ANOTHER SCHOOL AND ACTUALLY WORK HARD TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING. EMPLOYERS WILL NOTICE.

Elie,

You said, "...since the government is already bailing out banks and auto makers -- it could be stimulative for the government to lessen the burden it is placing on its own educated and motivated citizens."

1) Ultimately, the tax payers are bailing people out.

2) You seem to realize the problem is that people ("students") are racking up crushing debt. But, what are the causes?
i) fraudulent inducement and or mistaken belief that paying for any kind of private education will return great economic benefits.
ii) private (and now public) colleges charging outrageous rates to pay for things only tangentially related to a proper education (e.g. wellness centers, gardens, campus art).
ii) an easy access to credit to pay for i and ii.

The economy is not the cause of people taking out multiple tens of thousands of dollars to get degrees that have no to little economic value for society or the holder.

Fix the causes; don't just treat the symptom.

The ship be sinking...

Fine, give her the money back. But also take away the degree. Make her sign something saying that by taking the money, she returns and forfeits the bachelors degree and ALL units earned at that school. So no using all those units somewhere else, or still pretending like she has that bachelors on her resume.

Then we'll see if she wants that money back.

Elie,

Why must the government do something? Why is that always the default? No one is holding guns to people's heads forcing them to take out crippling amounts of loans. If you really think the vast majority of people are too stupid to make rational decisions, I think that is an insulting and paternalistic view of your fellow citizens. If only we had the enlightened elites to guide the poor sucker proles. How condescending.

Michael be farting....

1. Perhaps the suit is meant to shame the school in trying harder to help her find a job, and not meant to actually prevail on the merits.

2. I hope they've invoked a good samaritan statute. If the school charged her a dime less than full tuition, and if they could have predicted that this would happen, they're totally liable.

I'm with 14. She could have gone to a CUNY or SUNY for an equal or most likely better education, for a fraction of the tuition.

Also, if you read the article, she's 27... it's not like she's some 22 year-old who made a bad choice in higher education at 18.

And if you're 27, you seriously don't need mommy commenting on the story. You're an adult... you are responsible for your own decisions, poorly thought out as they may be.

I think this is a case where the government needs to step in and provide a bailout. Given that she's 27 and lives with her mother, she's probably too big to fail.

What are the salaries for Above the Law Editors?

I'm not in favor of a "bailout" of student borowers, but I am very much in favor of raising the amount of the student loan interest tax deduction. Currently, there are caps on both income and the amount of the deduction itself. I believe the deduction should be available regardless of income and that the full amount of student loan interest paid be deductable. This would do a lot of people a lot of good and help stimulate the economy without bailing anyone out.

Her attorney should be sanctioned.

This college grad's lame attempt to find a job and extreme response after 5 months of unsuccessful attempts really pushes my rage button. I linked to your post from my own post on the matter at http://job.ology.com. You're distinction between fighting to relieve student debt loads and this woman's approach is a much needed one, thanks for the post!

@49 -- I wouldn't be surprised if she filed the suit pro se / pro per. The article probably would have had some kind of sanctimonious quote from her lawyer if she had one.

"It's pretty hard to start your own business or "hang out a shingle" when you are already six figures of debt in the hole. "

So how about you.... work for it? Beats becoming a soon-to-be unemployed ATL writer.

Elie-

WTF is social wealth????

Thanks,
Person with a job

Elie, stop pretending that there's a difference between you and her. The only difference is that she want's her school too pay while you want people who actually make something of themselves to pay.

The solo practice bible by Foonberg states that you must have at least a year of expenses before you open up a solo practice.

So most of us can forget the "hang a shingle" cheerleaders .......such as Susan Cartier Liebel...we are already living paycheck to paycheck...if we have a paycheck at all.

Most people who do this have either:
1. Substantial savings from previous Biglaw job:
2. Loan or gift from parents;
3. Iheritance;
4. Well to do spouse who can pay all the bills while you wait for the practice to get off the ground; or
5. Lawyer parent or other relative who gives you space and feeds you cases.

Of course, most people do not disclose 1-5.

Several years ago a neighbor told me she and others, members of one of the first if not the first class graduating class, were suing Chapman Law School because it was too "hard". Seriously. Does anyone know what became of that lawsuit. I believe it was filed in federal court in California. Thanks.

Elie, for hell's sake. Making student debt easier to discharge in bankruptcy won't help ANYTHING. Student loans are already unsecured, so the protections of section 523 are the only thing that keep interest rates from mirroring those of credit cards. Make student loans dischargeable, and you'll see interest rates quadruple in a heartbeat.

35 = Ayn Rand

58 = Tom Daschle

Speaking of getting one's money back for an overpriced education...what's the status of the Bar Bri litigation payout? I received a letter last week saying my number (which I submitted off the top of my head) conflicted with what they had on record and gave me the opportunity to correct it by late August. Does that mean I will see my paltry $125 in September? Anyone know anything about this? The "official site" is never updated.

Silly lawsuit. However, colleges and law schools are not delivering and she is correct on that point. The market realities may eventually change the way education is delivered and how its is billed. The old system (kind of like the billable hour scheme at Big Law) is showing signs of serious rust.

Elie, Thanks for writing this post: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/08/morning_docket_080309.php?show=comments#comment-1172031

Now, redo the wedding dance with the staff of ATL!

Has she even pled a legitimate complaint? Lawsuits like this are why it takes 2-4 years to get a legitimate case to trial. Also, what exactly are her qualifications? Perhaps the time period between graduating HS (or dropping out and later getting a GED) and applying for the jobs she didn't get contain something that would make people not want to hire her i.e. time in jail, time in an sanitorium, time spent in rehab. . . .she is a waste of carbon at this point to me

Please don't be "the guy" lobbying for this, because if you're the dynamic force behind it, it will surely fail.

Just let us pay student loans back *pre-tax!* Sucks to pay taxes on money loaned to you to ultimately increase your tax burden.

The only people too big to fail are the 35,000 sq/ft wives of lawers from Texas.

Congress should pass a cash-for-graduate-degree-clunkers where they offer all law school graduates $50,000 to put toward medical school and then bulldoze their law school diplomas.

I have no sympathy for people who go to crappy colleges (ESPECIALLY when they are actually paying for it - if you can't get a free ride to a shit college then you probably don't deserve to be making that much money) and expect the world to be opened up for them.

I taught at unselective colleges for over 15 years and what most people don't realized is the dynamic that exists at these colleges. Good colleges place the least emphasis on teaching and bad colleges place the most emphasis on teaching. When you go to college you don't pay to be taught; you pay to be evaluated fairly and accurately.

Unselective colleges intentionally misevaluate students in order to string them along and take as much money from them as possible. They should be sued and they should lose because they do not fulfill their principal duty as educators, which is to honestly and accurately evaluate the progress of their students.

These colleges would be sitting ducks for any law firm that understands basic economics and are aware of the malfeasance that occurs at these institutions.

I taught at unselective colleges for over 15 years and what most people don't realized is the dynamic that exists at these colleges. Good colleges place the least emphasis on teaching and bad colleges place the most emphasis on teaching. When you go to college you don't pay to be taught; you pay to be evaluated fairly and accurately.

Unselective colleges intentionally misevaluate students in order to string them along and take as much money from them as possible. They should be sued and they should lose because they do not fulfill their principal duty as educators, which is to honestly and accurately evaluate the progress of their students.

These colleges would be sitting ducks for any law firm that understands basic economics and are aware of the malfeasance that occurs at these institutions.

Govt needs to stop propping up college loans. Let people file bankruptcy on them. Lenders will quit providing financing to shitty schools. Shitty schools disappear. Retards no longer have that TTT and its debt because they're working at Walmart or McD's.

Education is like the real estate market in that rather than the banks being careless in lending money, the govt is backing banks in lending money carelessly.

70 - if you haven't noticed, law firms generally don't understand economics. Lawyers are poli sci and history majors. What do you expect?

71 - Gov't backed RE lending as well. These situations are very analogous, b/c as these shithole kit homes collapse with their owners upside down in them, the job the owner paid 70K in student loans to get, ie. Medical Office Technician, will likely not exist or will be done by a high school educated individual who learned on the job. Meanwhile, capital has been extracted from the debt sick individual's speculated future earnings. Suckas.

65 - you have a decent idea. Consider that the Code allows a deduction of $2,500 per year, so long as your income is not more than ~110K (not sure this is right, the number is different for marrieds and singles). Congress needs to increase this deduction to accomodate the higher interest rates new grads are dealing with. They (Congress) also need to lift the income limitation. The problem is that, yes, it is deductible, but for law grads, we lose the deduction once we start making any money at all. I, for one, will never see this deduction because my spouse's income puts us over the AGI limit.
I am currently debating refinancing my student loan into a home equity loan because I can get a tax deduction and a lower rate at the same time.

74- Thanks. By the way, your plan is great, but it only works if you have a house you want to be saddled to more than your student loans. Unfortunately, I do not.

55, is "Iheritance" a new Apple product?

15/16 - cutting school, drinking, smoking weed, engaging in intercourse with multiple partners --- why didn't she become a law librarian?

49 and 51, agreed, and this is why Rule 11 (and comparable state rules) should include public crucifixion among the acceptable sanctions....

The subject of this post, the author of this post, and the post itself are so worthless that even PE has failed to post a comment.

Post 41 FTW, give her the money back but take back the degree and units. If she thought she couldn't get a job with the bachelor's degree, let's see her try with NO degree, no units, but hey, at least she'll have $70k in her pocket.

Accorning to CNN: "Thompson says she has not hired an attorney to represent her because she cannot afford one. When she filed her complaint, she also filed a "poor person order," which exempts her from filing fees associated with the lawsuit." At least there is no scumbag, bottom-feeding lawyer involved.

This is my favorite part of the CNN story: "She suggested that Monroe's Office of Career Advancement shows preferential treatment to students with excellent grades. "They favor more toward students that got a 4.0. They help them more out with the job placement," she said."

Really? A school doing more to place students who actually did well at the school. Obviously ridiculous.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/03/new.york.jobless.graduate/index.html

"According." Sorry

--81

81, it's racist to help students with high GPAs.

At last, found a link to the complaint, complete with her pro se in forma pauperis order:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/03/thompson.pdf

here's a wacky, crazy NUTTY thought, kids: IF YOU AMASS DEBT, YOU PAY IT BACK. Frickin insane, I know. If you take on debt, of any amount, and you receive a good or a service for that debt, how about you suck it up and pay it back, instead of crying about how it wasn't everything your widdle biddy heart dreamed it would be? Oh, and another thing - that biatch has been looking for a job since APRIL? Color me impressed - a WHOLE whopping 3 months! ZOMG! The huge manatee!

the FAIL is colossal.

"But in the immortal words of Switch from The Matrix: 'Not like this.'"

Somebody needs to unplug this blog...

@84 -- Did you note that she is seeking reimbursement of her "tutision"? Seriously.

BAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!

She's playing the victim.