Dear God, let this nightmare end.

MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS!!!

So, even if Baker & McKenzie is able to find spots for its incoming associates by June 2010, the relationship will still end. Ouch. At least that's what today's quality reporting has indicated. MysTTTal.

The ship be sinking...

This sucks and I am truly sorry for those who are affected. I know that there are a lot of assholes out there who don't deserve a modicum of good luck, but there are a lot of good people as well who I hope will be gainfully employed soon.

I'm one of the deferred and I have to say it was so unfair. This is basically how the conversation went down. Around 7:30 last night my phone rang. It was the hiring partner, who made some small talk, asked me how my bar trip was, etc. I had a feeling this wouldn't be ending well so I asked why he was calling.

He got quiet and then said, "At this point, we still haven't figured out a start date for you guys, and I'm not entirely sure when we will." I asked if that meant I should look for other opportunities, and he gave me a pretty non-committal response on that as well. I told him right then that I was scared and he said "you're moving in with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air."

I whistled for a cab and when it got near, the license plate said fresh and there was dice in the mirror. If anything I thought that this cab was rare, but I sad "naw, forget it. Yo homes, to Bel Air!" I pulled up the house about 7 or 8 and said to the cabbie "Yo homie, smell you later!" I went to my kingdom, I was finally there, and that's how Alston and Bird's deferrals were totally unfair.

This is becoming a trend. By years end expect the majority of vault firms to defer indefinitely/rescind offers to the class of 09. RIP.

So if B&M can find a spot for you they still will terminate the relationship? That seems counter-intuitive to me

7 = so much win

7 - best ATL comment ever.

-Not 7

11--seconded.

Not 7 or 11.

7, you'll get your Start Date when you get to the firm. If you don't... ...give me a call. I'll fly with you.

Jesus catfucking Christ - why did these firms publicly commit themselves to a January starting date when they were in fact pulling a date out of their ass and "hoping for the best?" If the deferral extension trend does not continue, they will be glaring examples of firms to avoid.

This takes the cake. So are we to interpret this as rescinding offers for the ENTIRE A&B class? WTF?

How you like me now?

holy crap is 7 funny.

15 - Your interpretation is supported by the evidence.

I will reserve judgment until I know JaKe Emeritus' opinion on this one.

Mystal is a fat racist homo walrus.

7 - I just laughed out loud in class. well done

14 -

If lawyers were good managers, they probably wouldn't be lawyers, or their firms wouldn't be imploding because GDP declined 6% in one year. These guys and gals have no idea what they're doing, and they don't have the stones to be honest for once in their lives.

I asked the career service officer in my school what I could do to protect myself in this economy and was told: "nothing!"
Oh, my dear Lord!

Wow - Emory 09 here. A&B got the very top students that wanted to stay in Atlanta. It's scary to think that these people (law review, amazing resumes) will be walking around with nothing to do.

Good luck to all.

Dear A&B associates never-to-be:

You seem confused by this turn of events, so let me explain.

When a firm defers your starting date but doesn't give you a starting date, that is the same thing as having your offer rescinded. Don't believe me? Think about it for a moment. Your situation right now could be expressed as follows: "At some point in the the future, you might work for A&B, you just don't know when." You could say the same thing about any other firm that you currently don't have an offer to join. Try it: "At some point in the future, you could work for Cravath, you just don't know when." Now, repeat with the names of other firms until you grasp this basic principle.

For those who still don't get it, let me be perfectly clear: YOU HAVE JUST BEEN FIRED.

"For those who still don't get it, let me be perfectly clear: YOU HAVE JUST BEEN FIRED."

Haw haw! I love this!

Hmm... wonder if this wil hurt that shitbox firm's standings on the "Fortune's Best Places to Work" list.

PE is spinning in his grave over this one.

A&B incoming associates: Time to look for a new job...I mean job, since you never really had a job to begin with. I really do feel for you though. Your income expectations just went from what....$135k to $145k a year, to about $45k to $75k a year. Fact is, there are no positions currently paying what you thought you would be making as a new associate. It's unfair, it sucks, its bad timing, it's your new reality. Good luck.

25-harsh but true. better to realize now that you will never be employed as a lawyer in any capacity than to have to waste time before finding this out.

Have any of the deferred seen any $$$ from their firms yet?

So I'm assuming no further deferral stipend? If so, that really, really sucks for A&B incoming class. Sorry, doods/ettes.

We need to bomb those summer associate programs back to the stoneage!

-DOJ Secure

I will take great pleasure in watching this firm implode. Heck, I might even put in a bid for some of its overpriced furniture when the bank auctions it off in the near future.

25,

I don't know what your personal situation is, but at some point in your life, someone's gonna get you. It will come as a major surprise, someone you trusted will take everything you have. You will look around for a friend, but no one's hand will be extended.

This post is addressed to Commenter #19:

Your prudence in decision making is a strong suit, and will serve you well as your progress in the legal field. I only hope that you can impart this attribute on the unwashed masses of ATL.

I have said this before and I will say it again: no one is laid off unless they are lethargic or incompetent, and probably both. Think about this: if you made yourself invaluable to Alston & Bird, they would not defer or no-offer you. Period.

Work harder, plebeians.

34 -- Yeah, I'm with you. Alston & Bird sucks ass, but they have some pretty nice Bobby Jones memorabilia.

Let me preview the firm's comment:

"While we are uniquely positioned to weather the current economic storm better than most,..."

I understand that firms are struggling and that work is drying up, but there has to be a better way than stringing us all along to the cliff's edge. I've already spent three years in constant stress and limbo, do I really need a kick to the balls now, just when things were about to look up? Can these firms really not find a creative way to make these recent graduates useful and profitable?

I can't imagine that any 09 grad feels safe right now. A call like this could come at anytime from any firm and these calls will become increasingly frequent as January approaches.

Emory '10 here... agreeing with #5.

Get a lifeboat. Law is dead.

My funny bone must be out of joint today or something --- 7 is not so funny

"The firm's unique culture and core values have been developed and maintained for more than a century. Core values that are of the utmost importance to the firm include collegiality, teamwork, firm loyalty, diversity, individual satisfaction, fairness and professional development."

14 "list of firms to avoid".. yeah, like law students have any power (even when the economy improves)

99% of even T14 students would suck a dick to work at latham right now (cadwalader too, really)

I feel bad for everyone that has been indefinitely deferred (laid off) from Alston & Bird. I just hope the firm implodes so the asshole partners get the kick in the balls they deserve.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the next few weeks is when most firms with January start dates will start making calls. But can we get some more detail on this? Most importantly, did they provide a stipend?

lol 7

41 = not a will smith fan

36:

Its true, I love the smell of scared associates in the morning. And, its always a good day when a simple post can create the anger and pain apparent in your post.

But, hey, to keep things positive, let me be the first to say to you "Good luck finding a new position, now that A&B doesn't want you. "

25

Jake,

That's the second post in a row that includes a grammatical error.

--Former LR editor

When I was deferred to January 2010, I thought to myself--hey, it could be worse, I could be one of those incoming associates being asked to do the one year deferral + $65K stipend upon securing a public interest internship. Now, I envy those people. FML!!!

This was probably A&B's plan the whole time. (Or if not a "plan," they probably knew with 90% certainty when they deferred these guys that they would never be able to start them.) It doesn't look quite as bad for a firm to defer associates and then quietly perpetuate the deferral than for the firm to no-offer or rescind offers or simply fire the associates after they've started.

In the end, Latham may have done it's first-years a favor. At least they knew immediately what had happened to them and could get on with the rest of their lives.

42 -- Yeah, what bullshit. As someone who summered there, I can tell you that the image they portray bears no resemblance to the reality of life in that firm.

I laughed a little the first time I was willie rolled. But that was in 2004. Now I just find it unoriginal schtick.

Deferred for Life - I am guessing you are the same person as Scared 3L. Go away. I am tired of your constant whining. You do not help your cause or the cause of people in our position. If anything, you portray us weak, overly sensitve, entitled douches, undeserving of a big firm job. You do not speak for the Class of 2009....Sincerely, STFU.

Deferred 2009'er

Why are you idiots obsessing over this stuff. Stop playing the firms' game. Unionize!

7,

Maybe you'd have better luck with the job thing if you didn't use so much slang.

"You homie, smell you later." That's not very professional.

AlsTTTon & Bird parTTTners, associaTTTes and secreTTTaries

25/47,

When your falls apart, I will be there. Thanks for the message.

36

There are plenty of jobs available for rejected law grads...prostitution, male or female, it doesn't matter. Both take it up the ass, and you folks seem to have more than enough experience to make it on the street. Bend over and enjoy.

I'm one of the '09 grads/idiots that keeps sitting here saying "not my firm... not my firm... not my firm." One day soon, I'll get the call from the hiring partner and realize that three years of hard work and sacrifice, both personal and financial, basically got me back to where I was when I came out of undergrad: too much debt, too little earning potential. Try to put yourselves in our shoes before you come on here and throw up another shtick post - this shit is getting unfunny real quick.

Good luck to A&B people.

unemployed c/o 2009, put your hands up, put your hands up!

Well said, 59.

Goodwin Procter Boston just gave their incoming associates a start date in early January. Guess getting half to do their "Make a Difference" program and start next October worked.

Ditto 61.

-Not 61 or 59

55 = no so subtle troll

This post is addressed to Commenter #48:

This is the first post in which you have made a grammatical error. Incidentally, it is your first post ever.

Certainly a "Former LR editor" would know to correctly capitalize proper names.

-JaKe

What does this mean for the class of 2011 and 2012? Will this firm continue to do OCI at law schools? What is the point of them hiring from the class of 2011 and 2012 in the future when they have plenty of 2009 grads to go around? This goes for all firms. I'm applying to law school now so this all scares me.

It really baffles me that law students - and even to some extent associates - seem willfully blind to how the business of corporate law operates. Let me clarify something for you: your only purpose is to put profits into partners' pockets. Back when there were lots of jobs going at $165k/yr, this was because firms had somehow managed to convince large corporate clients that these salaries were necessary to attract the best and the brightest to staff their matters, and and which in turn justified junior associates' billing rates. Bottom line is that you were pulling in around $200k with bonus, and they were pocketing between $400-600k for your efforts. Multiply that over a very large group, and you have some serious cash flowing upwards. However, something interesting happened (and here I speak from experience) which is that an ever-growing chorus of corporates refuses to allow anyone less than a 3rd year to even touch their files, because anyone more junior doesn't know their ass from their elbow regardless of which hallowed institution they attended. For example, assume a first year is billed at $300, and a fifth year at $550....and for the significant majority of matters a fifth year will do the work at a much lower overall cost, not to mention a higher quality... because they actually know what they are doing.

Bottom line- the inflated salaries were a short-term blip that fattened partners' pockets, but could never last. Now that firms are realizing that first and second year associates cannot be fobbed off on unsuspecting clients in a way that makes significant profits for the firms themselves, those associates no longer have the same - if indeed any - value to firms... with this illustrated by all of the no-offers/1st year layoffs that are ongoing. I'm really sorry but you bought into a fantasy, and the reality is that you're probably not going to make it into the door until you have a couple of years of practical experience under your belt... and god only knows where you're going to be able to get it.

Jake,

Let us give you a spoon, so you can eat our ass...es.

<3
Everyone

67 said "inflated salaries were a short-term blip that fattened partners' pockets"

Flawless logic...flawless.

Well, I suppose those who have been deferred could work in a shop of some kind, or do freelance selling of some sort of product. You know, like maybe in a haberdasher, or maybe a chapeau shop or something.

I'm right there with you, 59. If my firm pulls this on me, I'm selling everything on eBay and moving to a temperate clime to be homeless. There's no point endlessly striving and sacrificing in the hopes of getting a penny ahead.

Well, at least it only takes a year to find a government job. In the meantime, I'll be hooking on craigslist to pay my loans/feed myself.

67 - sooooo..... I suppose OCI is a thing of the past?

67 - You are the kind of scum that transformed law from a profession into a pyramid scheme. You are an embarrassment.

Gotta love Baker's warning that if things do not improve by summer, "the relationship will end." It sounds like something an ex-girlfriend once said to me. She didn't wait until summer to dump me, though.

67, you took that much time to write senseless garbage? You do realize your theory would detract any talent at top law firms, destroying the firms, which would reach up to the partners pockets. See what I did there, I totally fucked your theory. Keep fucking that chicken.

I had the mixed blessing of being told up front by my (big law here, medium law nationally) summer job that we would not be hired. A group of us were hired on for a single case and spent the summer doing what 1-3 year associates would have been doing (doc review). I was grateful for the cash and for their honesty. The problem many of us are facing is that the big law shit is running downhill. Medium and small firms (where law is practiced) are snatching up students they wouldn't have had a shot at. The rest of us who would have been very competitive (top 15%, etc.) with those firms are now scrambling to find a crack somewhere.

I'm counting on one thing; income based repayment. Those like myself who did the whole student loan gamble aren't going to lose their shirts. We're young, we've been living on very little for 7-10 years now and we can do it for a little longer. It sucks to put off buying a car with <200K miles or house, but I consider the position enviable as compared to people who became accustomed to/spent biglaw pay and lost it. Finally, at least for me, it gives me a chance to work with local attorneys learning how to actually provide legal services, and eventually move toward getting my own firm off the ground. While the prospect of going back to serving horrifies me (I've got a J.D.!), I'm happy to know my wife and I won't starve and that student loans won't break me. It sucks, we'll get through it. As far as some of the more condescending posts on here, a little empathy for your fellow man/woman is in order, if not for other members of your profession.

A & B Lathamed the first years?

Any advice for class of 2010 deferrals?

I'm a 3L who received an offer from a V100 firm that made offers to only a third of its SA class. Our start date is set for January 2011. No word yet on whether we'll receive a stipend.

Is there any chance I will start in January 2011 or should I be actively looking for other opportunities? This whole situation is messed up.

My condolences to all the people affected by this news, and to the classes of '09 and '10, and probably '11 as well.

That said, this thinning of the herd is the best thing that ever happened to the legal profession. New hires are going to have to be more creative, more talented, and more possessed of profitable expertise than the mindless drones law schools have been churning out.

No longer is it enough to smoke a few 1L classes and interview well in order to land a job. Instead, incoming associates will have to quantifiably demonstrate that they actually deserve their starting salaries. That is good for their careers, and for the profession as a whole.

So get cracking, newbies. Time to show employers that you're more than just good grades - how are you going to help me turn a profit?

I knew this would happen :(

- 2009 grad

Have the A&B summers been told about offers yet? Or are they still in suspense?

In 10 years "biglaw" firms will comprise nothing but a rump of baby-boomer equity partners, a wedge of temp contract attorneys, and lawyers in India pulling much of the load.

Fortunately, by then,the federal government will be so large that it will provide a decent crash pad for most Harvard & Yale students.

67 here. I might add that I actually know what I am talking about, having worked at a white-shoe firm and am now deciding which firms to hire - and upon what basis, including in particular which level of experience gets to work on any particular matter - as a general counsel of a multinational. However, feel free to blast away with whatever comments/knowledge you feel you have to offer, and please do come up with your own explanations for why it has become so much more difficult to obtain a job as a first year associate.

83-

Your assessment of biglaw's future may be correct. But here's the beauty of capitalism: some of you very smart, driven, talented young people will figure out a new way to compete with the aged dinosaur of biglaw.

Those big firms didn't spring fully-formed from the green earth. A handful of smart lawyers figured they could do it better themselves, and, poof, Skadden.

The choice is yours. Bemoan your fate at being denied entrance to biglaw, or figure out a way to break in and do it better.

Yes, 82. The calls went out at about 8:00 last night. Nearly all summers got offers.

Talked to a friend incoming at A&B: It was NOT the whole class, some are still starting in Jan., this website loves fearmongering headlines.

86,

What did they get offers to do exactly? Shoe-shine boys and coffee-fetchers? I can't imagine A&B bringing them on as actual associates.

i know for a fact that some A&B practice groups are not deferred past Jan. 2010. This isn't a universal policy.

88, they will come on as first year associates. Since the 2009'ers were fired, there was plenty of room for them.

86

"Try to put yourselves in our shoes before you come on here and throw up another shtick post - this shit is getting unfunny real quick."

Oh but this isn't a "shtick." Some of us are genuinely happy to see you fail . The lessons in humility you learn now will serve you well in the future.

Yes, this sucks for the class of 09. However, dont forget that A&B laid off about a quarter of their 08 incoming class. These people are really screwed.

7 FTW

Lol 88, I was thinking the same thing. That offer is worth less than the paper it's written on. Would you really expect to get better treatment than the '09ers?

76: "you took that much time to write senseless garbage? You do realize your theory would detract any talent at top law firms, destroying the firms, which would reach up to the partners pockets. See what I did there, I totally fucked your theory."

You're forgetting one thing. Law Firms, even top ones, are providing a service that doesn't differ all that much from what many other law firms will provide. The price of that service is determined by supply and demand, and to a certain extent by what the customers are willing to pay. There will always be a niche in the legal market for litigation that requires 30 associates on a case, and there will always be transactional clients who aren't sensitive to the cost of legal fees.

But, without clients willing to pay for half a dozen associates to work on a project, the highly leveraged NY-Firm model can't sustain itself. Those associates are necessary to sustain the high PPP's such firms are shooting for, but without clients willing to pay for the hours those associates are billing, they become a burden on the firm.

Like I said, there will always be a few firms that succeed with that model, (IE High end litigation and high dollar transactional work) but I think the majority of firms will realize they can't sustain that kind of a business model and will contract back down to lower leverage and lower PPP's.

- Not 67

50

Get on with their lives??!! Are you fucking kidding me??!!

There is no getting on with your life because there are no opportunities right now. Latham is a fucking dick taint firm that never belonged in the V10 to begin with. People turned down firms like Skadden, DPW, Paul Weiss, etc to go there. None of these firms have fucked over first years. To date, no elite firm has fucked over incoming classes or first year associates.

So yah, Latham may be better than a couple TTT firms. But it's a TTT, and definitely not among the elite. Gibson, Skadden, Paul Weiss, Jones Day, basically every v20, and most v100s even have treated their associates better.

Congrats Bob Dell, your firm is no longer prestigious.

I am apauled by the insensitive rude and noxious comments written on these boards. Most people here come here for serious news about what is going on and we dont need a bunch of crap from other people pretending to be other people.

This is just the beginning. Wait for more firms to indefinitely defer class of 2009.

JaKe gets a bum rap for telling it how it is. Too bad none of your are of the patrician heritage.

Note to all law students and young attorneys: if you're actually a good lawyer, your chances at making a shit-ton of money are much better in mid-size to small firms where you can eat what you kill. That doesn't necessarily require ambulance chasing either.

However, it does require leaving behind the safety net of biglaw, where someone else will find business for you. But you might actually have a life worth living and control your own destiny. Try it, you might like it.

JaKe gets a bum rap for telling it how it is. Too bad none of you are of the patrician heritage.

91, titcr

43

Hi Bob Dell!

class of 2009 = class of indefinite deferral
class of 2010 = class of no-offer
class of 2011 = class of cancelled summer program
class of 2012 = ???

hear ye, hear ye, 101! JE will undoubtedly appreciate the fact that, after hundreds of reads of the comments, only one person took note of the ancient Rome reference. Cheers.

104:

There will be no class of 2012. Law schools will begin closing their doors next year, and we will revert to an apprenticeship model. Would-be lawyers will "read the law" under the tutelage of senior attorneys, who will groom their proteges to take over the business. Prestige will be restored to the profession, and all will be right with the world.

101-

JaKe looks like the kind of guy who likes getting his bum rapped. Probably by pre-op trannies.

91 - I hope you contract AIDS and die a long, painful death. You are scum.

104, one addition:

class of 2008 = mass layoffs
class of 2009 = class of indefinite deferral
class of 2010 = class of no-offer
class of 2011 = class of cancelled summer program
class of 2012 = ???

I am new around here, but the JaKe Emeritus character is awesome. I especially love the peer/non-peer bit. FTW!

This is why the 2009 SAs who did get offers cannot feel secure...it appears that many of them will be deferred indefinitely...

BUT I WAS GOING TO TASCHI STATION TO PICK UP SOME POWER CONVERTERS!!!

111 is right. If the class of in front of you is starting in "the future" then you are starting after "the future." So, never.

66 ==> do you know what a learning curve is?

112, it's "Toshi" station. And you can waste time with your friends when your chores are done.

97 - I hope and pray that you never find a job.

The same email that gave everyone the news about the indenfinite deferrals for 1st years (who get paid a stipend through 2010 but it isn't clear how much) also said that 2009 summers were given offers to start in 2012.

115,

Thanks for the correction. When I finally enroll at the Academy after the next harvest, I will learn to spell that.

-112

This sucks.

81 - offers went out last week.

117 here. Post should have said that SOME summers were given 2012 offers. Not all were.

Can someone with knowledge please answer the following questions:

Has A&B offered a stipend to the further deferreds?

Did the deferrals hit the entire class of '09? If not, was there any method to the deferrals?

Any word on what % of 2009 Summer Associates at A&B got offers?

91:

If you're not posting shtick, then my comment wasn't directed at you. If I was addressing the scum that come on here and anonymously/cowardly claim to be delighted at others plight, my post would have read like this:

We need a lesson in humility like you need a lesson in being a heartless asshole.

- 59

124,

You don't sound very humble. All of this economic turmoil will do you good, I think.

59/124,

Don't take comments like that one to heart. Those comments are coming from TTT grads who are happy to see you struggling like they will for the rest of their lives. They are the ones that are happy to see you fail. Biglaw associates are not the ones putting you down - they are busy working, trying to hang onto their jobs. They dont have the time or the desire to put you down.

117: deferral to 2012? all you sure?

Man fuck this shit.

127--the email from Liz Price said that some summers were given offers for 2012. See my post at 121--this was not everyone.

What the hell is TTT?

Latham appears to prestigious firm from me. They have every of the most big clients and treating their workers tops.

Can anyone here give some pointers on shooting womp rats with a T-16?

Whoa, whoa, we're talking about A&B here. They never exactly attracted top legal talent. It's sad no doubt, but let's not kid ourselves, most of these people didn't go to a good law school.

which layoff/recission will create the Biglaw partner serial killer?

133, rofl...

No, No. That's not True. That's impossible. Noooooo...

126 - you cannot possibly have any idea who is posting comments.

78 - If yor asking whether A&B offered a ginormous severance package (ala Latham), the answer is no.

Atlanta has major flooding right now. Literally, the A&B ship be sinking.

You can be assured that King & Spalding will be following the same course of action soon. Just like the original deferral, they will be following A&B on this path as well.

does anyone know if Latham's hiring? I'd really like to work for the guy with the swank apartment in Paris, he seems like a seriously successful guy.

no wonder this firm has no business. the majority of their attorneys went to UGAy.

Tuning in late here - it's tough to say whether this means anything for biglaw in other cities. Atlanta is really struggling right now. Real estate was huge down here....and FLOP. Morris Manning rescinded offers in the Spring, Fish & Richardson rescinded offers on graduation day, Bryan Cave re-deferred, now A&B, K&S is next...followed by Troutman, McKenna, even Jones Day. Bottom line, Atlanta is in big trouble.

143 - True that we here in Atlanta are F*CKED and most of the firms suck. But, let's not start destroying people's lives by comparing these relatively good firms (JD, Troutman, AB, MMM) to the festering stinkhole of Atlanta's WorsTTT Law Firm McKenna Long & Aldridge.

Remember who started no offering summers first. Remember who cut salaries first (to a depth that has not yet been matched in the Atlanta market).

66, congrats on doing some background research before MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE

no idea how many alston bird summers got offers, but those who did were either given a january 2011 or january 2012 start date. dependent on office and practice area.

I consider A&B to be the rectum of the legal community. They have earned their reputation on a little legal talent and a lot of self-congratulatory fluff. They hardly hire any laterals, so everyone there has been hooked up to the firm's cool-aid iv for his or her entire career and is weirdly and delusionally enthusiastic about the place. I'm sure this news sucks for the deferred newbies, but they will be better off in the long run.

I know some of you are sick of my rants, but can someone chime in on which practice groups were deferred and which ones are letting the incomings start on time.

I'm assuming bankruptcy and maybe securities litigation are starting in January, and that finance and m&a is being deferred for eternity.

Don't know which groups are deferred but I am starting in Finance in January...

Great info, 149. So I wonder which groups deferred? Or did it depend on the individual -- maybe they looked to summer reviews to see who was most worthy of starting.

What in gods name did they tell the people they deferred. I can't imagine the conversation. Well, I guess I can. But fuck, that must have been awkward.

any updates? did A&B every respond to the story?