first?

I endorse Dorsey's committment to adopting my hybrid tough love model. Spot on D&W.

How you like me now?

Dorsey sucks

Like many of these threads (TTThreads?), this one features a tipster who needs to get his head out of his ass.

Listen, buddy. The fact that YOU are not making your hours does not mean that there are not other lawyers making theirs (probably even others in your firm making theirs).

It's a fair question whether all associates should share the pain of those groups that are slow, but the implication here and elsewhere that no one is busy is false.

Bueller? Bueller? HELLO??!?!?! Dorsey has been off "lockstep" for years now, since they raised their first-year compensation to $160k (being late to the party on that one.) At the time, they also instituted a salary "range" for the upper associate classes. And the top of each year's range was still below the then-current market salaries.

Indeed, many Dorsey associates are making their hours and then some. The new base will not be below market.

And there will not be a pay cut.

STEPTOE AND JOHNSON IS A TOILET FIRM!!!

WHERE ARE THE OFFERS??? WHERE ARE THE OFFERS???

What a shithole firm. The people who run this firm are the same set of morons who hired someone as an associate who (1) hadn't passed the bar; and (2) hadn't even attended and graduated from law school. And dig this, it took these fools six months to figure this out.

What a poorly managed shithole place to work.

8,9=clueless and naive Dorsey associates. Dorsey has been "below market" for years now. See post 7. Care to deny those FACTS?

Oh, 11 here you go again--sorry you couldn't cut it at Dorsey. And, that is very old news. Did you know the Viet Nam War is over, too.

Party's over bitches. The associate market in MN will return to barely six figures.

It's way past time for law firms to operate as most reasonable businesses. As for associates, if the work isn't there to be done, then you are out the door on your ass, plain and simple. In the past, the law firms simply created make-work for associates, then billed the clients for it. Now, the clients aren't bending over anymore, so now the make-work bullshit is going down the drain. Imagine, lawyers doing real law work, as opposed to doing what any secretary or paralegal could do standing on their heads.

This is all a smokescreen for new layoffs that will be for people who don't "contribute" enough. Just admit you're bloated and get on with it.

I often hesitate to read the comments because I know the first 5 are going to be idiots vying for the title of "first." Can't the site just delete them? And can someone please tell me what TTT stands for?

Real news:
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/09/skadden-offer-day.html

ATL is hoping for the death of lockstep because varying compensation levels will provide endless reporting fodder. But the truth is, until a good firm does it, abandoning lockstep is just abandoning market pay.

Why can't Dorsey be more like Faegre and just fire the hell out of a bunch of associates?

What's a Dorsey? Isn't that something on a dolphin?

Gee, just think, you may really earn what you deserve? Novel approach and welcome to the real world spoiled associates. See ya lock-step. Wouldn't want to be ya associates that don't work hard.

have the MN firms just decided they are going to go as low as possible because the associates working there only have a few options?

Or does this mean there will no longer be much legal work(less then now) in MN?

How soon is it going to be till these and other firms get swooped up and there are going to be true mega firms with total monopolies on the both providing and hiring?

The ship be sinking...

Guys in my high school used to consider abandoning lockstep for below market compensation packages all the time...it was no big deal

23, Minnesota actually has a relatively robust legal market given its population, but even with decent demand, there is an oversupply of qualified attorneys who want to be in Minnesota. Good situation for the firms.

Dorsey is horribly managed. I guess that's what you expect from hiring a woman to run your firm.

What we really need to do is to make Minneapolis a less desirable place to live. Perhaps if we imported a large illiterate Somalian population . . . oh wait, already did that. Well maybe if we had higher than average income taxes and ever-increasing property taxes . . . oh wait. Well the weather . . . I'm confused, why is Minneapolis a desirable place to live? Because it's, er, not as big as other places and, er, big is bad. Yeah, I guess that's the argument.

Ken Dorsey? He was good in college.

-Latham Secure

Hey, 13:

STFU.

Very clever comeback--30. Maybe that's why you couldn't make it.

I heard that Colt Wallerstein abandoned lockstep. Can anyone confirm?

7, you are aware that Dorsey NEVER paid 160K to first years, correct? None of the MN firms ever did, even before this shitshow economy.

WilmerHale is abandoning lockstep in January for 4th years and above.

Ken Dorsey = Matt Leinart

Tell me how the hell Minnesota is a top 20 law school? The weather sucks, you don't hear anything spectactular about the faculty. If I wanted to work in a real legal market, I have no clue how saying you went to Minnesota is suppose to help. A well-regarded regional school in L.A., DC or NY would be more relevant.

To be fair, Dorsey isn't some no name firm in minnesota. There are probably two firms in the upper midwest worth anything, and those are Dorsey and Faegre. Neither firm has ever paid market, but at least Dorsey has not fired a bunch of second and third years.

The minnesota law school is overrated, but there are plenty of T14 graduates at Dorsey and Faegre. From what I hear, the transactional groups are very slow at both firms. Some at Dorsey won't even hit 1200 hours this year.

ITE, wouldn't a smaller Minneapolis firm like Maslon be safer than a Dorsey or Faegre?

33: New York office. So, to put it bluntly, you're WRONG.

Why should Dorsey pay market in NY when the associates don't work market in NY?

38: No. No one has ever heard of maslon.

God, if Dorsey cuts salaries AGAIN, for the third time in less than a year (i.e., freeze, cut, cut), then let's at least hope they have the brains NOT to cut the Seattle office's pay. While the Minny office is likely at or near market, the Seattle office is in a whole other league of its, and is sooooo ridiculously below market value at even the current pathetic pay level. It must attempt stay competitive with the other Seattle firms, or all of the partners will suffer in the long run (i.e., long-term v. short-term tradeoff). Seattle will be seventh rate, expecting unreasonable billables from its associates yet paying them like poop. My PPPs are sure to drop even further from the downward spiral it would cause.

Let's hope M. Short realizes that the Minneapolis landscape does not determine the world market, or we're all in a lot of trouble.

42 - Stop knocking Minny - we put you up in the Graves.

On top of all of the pay cuts, sleuth layoffs, elimination of bonuses, cancellation of summer program, etc., etc., etc., the worst of all was the decision to renew M. Short's term as managing partner. What a nightmare! She probably shouldn't take it as a compliment; the firm needs a fall guy for all of these horrendous decisions, so each member of the policy committee was smart enough to appoint someone other than themselves. She's so narcissistic, she thinks it's a compliment! Joke's on her; as soon as all the terrible decisions are out of the way and the fall-out is done, they'll fire her and appoint someone new who gets to ride out the glory of the recovery.

Perkins assoc here. Dorsey has made more negative headlines during this recession than any other firm. Why am I interested in this? Because I'm scared to death that Dorsey could set a trend in Seattle, although they haven't had much luck setting that trend yet since no other Seattle firm has done these things. Dorsey Seattle is certainly the trend setter for associate mistreatment in this recession.The firm is a mess. And the thing that makes me feel your pain is that you are paid $17K less than us per year based on your CURRENT pay (before the year-end further slashing) and expected to bill the same. They are treating you like slave labor, either because the firm is going under and has no choice or because it is exploiting the bad economy because it can. Either reason is shameful.

Dorsey is such a shit show. I don't know why anyone would go there if they had any other options. It is clear that Dorsey is completely bloated. Advise to 2Ls, if you have any other options, take them. I picked a different firm and I was really questioning that decision, until now. After all of this I couldn't be happier that I decided to go with a different firm. Where I got an offer, and they still pay a real salary.

45 - I wish I would have picked a different firm. We ARE getting the screws put to us. They are exploiting us something awful right now. What they don't realize is that all of this associate mistreatment is going to run them into the ground in the long run. Once the economy turns around, the goodwill they've destroyed and replaced with animosity and resentment will cause the associates to leave in droves. On top of it, they won't be able to recruit even idiots. So what they'll be left with are partners who have no competent associates to do their work, and eventually, the firm will implode and/or be sued for malpractice due to all the stoopids working for them.

Go Marianne Short. Keep the geniusness rolling. Or, alternatively, feel free to resign. But whatever you do, do NOT cut salaries any further.

Someone please tell me about the following MPLS firms:

Perkins, Maslon, Zell, Leonard

Looks like they all pay well but fly under the radar?

my friend in Dorsey's corporate group has something like 700 hours billed this year. Its not unreasonable for them to cut hours. This associate is just worried about his job.

13 & 31 (you're not doubt the sames person posting twice):

You're a moron. If you're an attorney, you also incompetent because you can't read and you make unsubstantiated conclusions.

Where do you get the idea that because someone calls Dorsey & Whitney a shithole, which it is, that that person somehow couldn't cut it at said shithole, hmm? I didn't have to go to a shitty, backwater firm like Dorsey b/c I had better options.

Can't wait to see you get your ass kicked to the curb.

49, you will be waiting a long time then. Why, do I respond this way--because you post the same idiotic garbage each time--it's very old news, bud.

@ 8 You are out of your mind. Maybe one or two in MPLS or Seattle. Maybe. But the majority of Dorsey associates--including lit associates--are down 20 to 30% or more on hours. Corporate is far, far worse. The end is nigh for many and they are stealthily pushing out counsel, associates and income partners.

Let me get this straight. So, what this idiotic f'd up firm is proposing to do is cut salaries BELOW market? So, the associates would be guaranteed less than market with a "chance" to make market? Surely this can't be right. The management committee isn't that dumb to think such a strategy will work?? Why would anyone (other than someone who can't get a job anywhere else) choose a firm where they are merely guaranteed to make "below" market when they can go somewhere that guarantees them market or above, with a chance to make WAY more than market? Surely, the management committee can't have this many flies up its ass.

52, that is not correct. It will not be below market. And associates are NOT being forced out.

50:

" idiotic garbage"?

Sounds like your ripostes to a "T." Were did you go to law school, some schmuck academy like Hamline?

50:

" idiotic garbage"?

Sounds like your ripostes to a "T." Were did you go to law school, some schmuck academy like Hamline?

What is going on at Paul Hastings?

But 55 you have posted the exact same thing including using same language for years on Greedy Minnesota and then here every time Dorsey is mentioned. I think you must be obsessed with Dorsey. Hamline? What's that?

"But 55 you have posted the exact same thing including using same language for years on Greedy Minnesota and then here every time Dorsey is mentioned."

So cry me an effin' river.

"I think you must be obsessed with Dorsey. "

No. Just gonna slam a shithole every chance I get.

" Hamline? What's that?"

A shitty law school that you probably attended.

The problem 58 is that no rational person would have posted the same post for years and be so obsessed that each time Dorsey's name is mentioned over the years that person feels obligated to post the same message and insist on criticizing the firm unless:

1. Never got an offer from Dorsey and still stewing--unlikely unless unemployed because most people move on since they focus on current job;

2. Got terminated at Dorsey for incompetence and still stewing--more likely; or

3. Complete whackjob--possible.

No, I never attended Hamline or the U or any other MN law school.

"The problem 58 is that no rational person would have posted the same post for years and be so obsessed that each time Dorsey's name is mentioned over the years that person feels obligated to post the same message and insist on criticizing the firm"

Dude, like, you're the one that feels obligated to keep responding the way you do. I never posted anything about this shithole firm on "Greedy Associates" or any other "laywer" message board. Ever.

Also, I never even considered working at Dorsey because it's a shithole, so yes I (1) never got an offer because I didn't even bother looking at that place; and (2) never worked there so couldn't have been fired.

I just like pointing out the truth about the ridiculous, pious frauds in these bullshit firms. The people who run that place are incompetent fools. The marketplace is now finding this out.

Why don't you look in the mirror, pal, and do some personal evaluation and improvement before you go around with the air of superiority you project.

59 is a tool.

I understand that Dorsey opened an office in Australia this year at some expense as part of the firm's efforts to expand its empire around the world while, at the same time, it appears to have trouble brewing on home turf. Has this firm lost its way in the big world?

Why isn't anybody discussing how Faegre (i) laid off 60 or more support staff this year; (ii) released 30 or more associates this year; (iii) is quietly booting partners; (iv) is quietly letting more associates go; (v) has also cut salaries and, perhaps most disturbing, (vi) had a partner capital call this summer (likely due to a credit facility debt/equity covenants being non-compliant)? Faegre is a great firm, but my fellow associates may want to investigate these issues as well...

63, because Dorsey is more interesting and sucks harder. Faegre is the place to be in Minneapolis now. Dorsey has fallen off pretty hard and it is only going to get worse. And no I don't work at either of these firms.

Dorsey is more interesting because they are more open and honest. Why is there more discussion? Because Dorsey has meetings with associates and staff and talks about the issues. But at the end of the day both firms will do just fine--at least in Mpld Faegre and Dorsey are clearly the top firms.

Dorsey is more interesting because they are more open and honest. Why is there more discussion? Because Dorsey has meetings with associates and staff and talks about the issues. But at the end of the day both firms will do just fine--at least in Mpls Faegre and Dorsey are clearly the top firms.

Dorsey sucks. The worst type of suck, in fact. And I don't even work there (although I do work for a competitor and therefore watch what Dorsey does in fear of its potential to influence us).

If they dare cut salaries again, the MUST reduce the billable hour. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Although they are dumb enough to think it's possible. Their motto is, "come to work for us where we pay you way less than market yet expect you to bill on par with firms paying their people 50K more than us." Now, there's a business model for success. That management committee needs to take a course in macro-economics.

Wait until the economy turns around on this shithole. It's going to be a sad, sad day for these idiots. They can get away with it now, but when they really need the associates, the associates are going to remember this. The firms that will truly be successful in the long run are the firms that treated their associates with dignity and class during the difficult times, and treated the associates as if they are important to the firm. Those are going to be the top firms after this recession bullshit happens. Dorsey will regret this.

Yes, treated them with class--like laying them off. Not sure what "shithole" you work for but most of us at Dorsey are pretty damn happy this firm did not lay us or our colleagues off and talk with us about what is happening. So, we like this "shithole".

68, you only like that shithole because they didn't lay you off. But any reasonable person in your position would stay there until the economy turns around and then get the fuck out. You have to realize how unstable the firm is. And if you can't come to this simple realization then maybe the reason that Dorsey is going down so hard is that they hang on to people like you.

69--You know nothing, clown.

70, clever. Did you come up with that clever retort all by yourself or did someone help you? Its ok, go have a midol and a wine cooler.

I learned it from the STFU guy who thought that was clever. I like how people who claim to have never worked at Dorsey nor even interviewed there are somehow able to divine the firm's finances and its future and also think it is their civic duty, despite claiming no personal knowledge because they would never deign to even interview there, to warn others that it is a terrible place to be.

73, its because any idiot can see how hard Dorsey is falling. You don't need any intimate knowledge of the firm to see how bad things are going. It is often the people who aren't on the boat that see the iceberg coming first.

Dorsey will be around long after your pathetic career has expired.

60 - you're dead-on. Anyone who posts positive things about Dorsey is either (1) a naive partner who thinks that cutting associate salaries is actually in the best interest of his/her pocket book (wrong answer) or (2) an idiotic associate who is at least smart enough to know he is worthless to the firm and feels lucky he hasn't been expunged yet. No superstar associate (or even moderate associate, for that matter) is happy with this firm right now. In fact, it's the superstars who are embittered and feign happiness to the partners while secretly plotting their departure the minute this bullshit economy turns around. The decisions by Dorsey mgmt are grossly short-sighted. Sure, they can get away with this now, but wait until things improve. As many, many commenters have expressly noted, Dorsey has treated its associates worse than any other firm, particularly in the Seattle market. This will not be forgotten.

The best thing Dorsey could do for itself is to do positive things for its associates (i.e., large raise to put them back to market) BEFORE the downturn ends. Once it ends, all that Dorsey will be remembered for are the greedy, bullshit decisions they made.

Dorsey, you made this bed; now lay in it.