first to ;)~

If you read the profiles for most any Irell associate, you will find that they are just as selective as Williams & Connolly. I'm not an associate at Irell, but they should easily be in the V20.

obviously not peer firms

Proskauer in free-fall!

why cum Elly nunca fixes he typ 0's

If 3 isn't an associate at Irell, then Flava Flav didn't wear giant clocks around his neck!

one of these things is not like the others - which one could it be?!

How did Orrick drop only 4 spots after firing 20% of its associates, freezing salaries, and abandoning lockstep for a squishy system that is aimed at paying out even less in aggregate associate salary?

3:

Attorney profiles/resumes is not what makes a firm prestigious.

3 - you are quite possibly the most annoying commenter on ATL. Of course you're an Irell associates and no, Irell is not as selective as Williams & Connolly.

9 = bitter Goodwin douche

12 = shameless Orrick troll.

No, attorney profiles are not what make a firm prestigious. But they are an indication of how selective they can be. And when half of the Irell associates are magna cum laude, come from T3 schools, and are on their respective schools' journal, I'd say that's pretty selective.

3/14 isn't an associate at Irell, but has taken the time to conduct a statistical analysis of the credentials of their associates. I guess if we take 3/14 literally, he/she could be a partner or recruiter for the firm...

Sooooo... the 46th ranked law firm in the US only has 10 attorneys? Really?

DLA Piper blows smelly socks. It's a combination of a bunch of small firms. There was no quality control at all, just mergers for mergers sake. They've done everything to slash costs (layoffs, pay cuts, no offers to summers, making non-equity partners pay $150,000 to magically rise to the ranks of equity partner, etc.) The firm is built on straw legs (attorneys from small places that have no right to charge the crazy rates DLA is charging). Clients are not stupid. There are a ton of firms that charge the same rates as DLA but would do a much better job, and even more firms that would charge less and still do a better job. Law students are also not stupid: anyone with any other offer is going to stay away from DLA. And partners are not stupid: any partner with a book of business and an option to move is going to go to a better firm, that can support his or her clients. Basically, the only stupid people are DLA's management committee. They merged with any firm that would have them so that they could be "global." A bad business decision in a good economy. A crippling one once the economy faultered. Not they're left with a huge overhead and a sinking ship. Bye bye DLA.

3/14 = Irell troll.

@17: unfortunately, DLA will last forever.

Dewey just advised on two multi-billion dollar deals in as many days.

V&E in the V50? Oh hell yeah.

No, 12, I'm at a bay area office of a far more prestigious national firm. But I'm very familiar with Orrick and its layoffs and cost-cutting, as is everyone else who lives in SF. It's really not surprising to you that they only took a 4-spot dive while Latham dropped 10? I understand that many of the other firms on today's list were similarly mismanaged, but there have to be at least 30 or so lower Vault-ranked firms that have had less carnage than Orrick over the past year.

Anyone hear anything about Jenner offers yet?

I have said this before and I will say it again here: there is no reason to engage in this charade of ranking firms. There are only two tiers of firms: preeminent peer law firms and inferior firms, the latter of which hire a good helping of mentally defective "lawyers."

Incidentally, I have an outstanding offer at my father's preeminent peer law firm.

3/14 here. Not an Irell troll. But I did interview with the firm during OCI and had a chance to view some of the firm profiles beforehand. It is pretty remarkable that a little firm out of Southern Cal. can attract so much talent.

24, you know that "half of the Irell associates are magna cum laude, come from T3 schools, and are on their respective schools' journal" because you "interview[ed] with the firm during OCI and had a chance to view some of the firm profiles beforehand."

That's your story? Seriously?

-- 15.

25 - Yup, that's my story. It really doesn't take time to glance through a firm's profile and say "oh gee, looks like there are a lot of T3 associates here. Wait, let me click on a few of them. Wow, looks like a lot of them are from the top of their class and were on journal." That takes 2 minutes of research.

Seriously?

On what planet is Orrick (or any of the firms on this list) > Irell?

Better yet, on what planet is LaTTTham more than 20 rankings higher than Munger, and more than 30 rankings higher than Irell?

That's VaulTTT for ya!~

That no-offered DLA associate cracks me up. They have literally copied and pasted the exact same screed in every thread about DLA for the last year. Almost as bad as the Latham loser.

We get it, you did not get an offer. Now get on with your life.

26, it's absurd to suggest you can remember the attributes of 50% + 1 of the attorneys of a firm based on two minutes of research. Thanks for playing though.

27 - I completely agree. Fortunately, Latham was punished this go round and dropped like 10 spots. No matter how you measure prestige, I just don't see how laying off a ton of your associates fits within that definition. Nor are those firms exclusive in their hiring practices. At my school, you only need to be in the middle of your class to get a Latham offer. I can only imagine Orrick.

k&s deserves a better ranking. certainly a stronger firm than baker or dla.

I kind of have to agree with 26 here, on this rather meaningless debate over his/her methodology. It really doesn't take long at all to get a sense of the type of associate that a given firm has (especially a small one like Irell). I'd say 2 minutes might even be pretty accurate. You can plow through 20-30 associate pages in that time, and I don't think it is unreasonable at all to suggest that you can then make a generalization about how accomplished the firm's associates are. Is that really unreasonable? Anyway, what the hell is the big deal here? Vault rankings are incredibly useless. Anyone who relies on them to pick a firm doesn't deserve an offer. What the hell are we ranking here? General prestige points as ranked by other associates? Could there be a more useless metric? What the hell does a Cravath associate know about Irell in LA or even Ropes in Boston? Just about nothing.

Just search Proskauer on ATL: A 7 billion dollar class action suit was filed against them last week , they recently had to back out of their new office space, they had to back out of their MTA contract. ,they were the first to fire first year associates , they re-deferred SAs, etc etc. 48 this year, gone next year.

Just search Proskauer on ATL: A 7 billion dollar class action suit was filed against them last week , they recently had to back out of their new office space, they had to back out of their MTA contract. ,they were the first to fire first year associates , they re-deferred SAs, etc etc. 48 this year, gone next year.

29, it's absurd that the only way you can win an argument is by taking every single word of someone's argument on literal face value. I remember arguing like that when I was in high school. Gotta love the "gotcha" games. Hopefully you'll grow out of it. But I think 3/14's overall argument is that Irell has very amazing associate profiles. And, 3/14 is right in that a quick search in less than 2 minutes reveals at least 58 associates from HLS of about a 200 attorney shop. So, yeah, it's not half the associates. But it's still a disproportionate amount as compared to the other T14 schools. And a quick random selection of the profiles from Irell suggests that many of them were magna and on law review.

29, it's absurd that the only way you can win an argument is by taking every single word of someone's argument on literal face value. I remember arguing like that when I was in high school. Gotta love the "gotcha" games. Hopefully you'll grow out of it. But I think 3/14's overall argument is that Irell has very amazing associate profiles. And, 3/14 is right in that a quick search in less than 2 minutes reveals at least 58 associates from HLS of about a 200 attorney shop. So, yeah, it's not half the associates. But it's still a disproportionate amount as compared to the other T14 schools. And a quick random selection of the profiles from Irell suggests that many of them were magna and on law review.

16, i hope you aren't serious...

26 is right. I interviewed there a few years ago also and when I did I had a good sense as to the typical Irell associate. Can't tell if the number is 45% of 55% but 26 is generally right.
Irell is looking to hire very serious people. Very serious people are doing a lot of research before interviewing, even during OCI. I did a few hours of research per firm before my OCI interviews. 26 is one of those serious people. 29 is not.

correction: 58 associates are rom HYS not HLS, lol.

- 36

Good times for Goodwin. Big move up from last year--10 spots. How come no love for that, MysTTTal?

Did Proskauer give any offers to the 2009 SAs? Have thet really deferred the 2008 SAs again?

16: Dumbest post ever?

And after all that hooplah, DL is just #47. Hah.

Failed merger, bitches.

Proskauer cannot afford to offer 2009 SAs anything.

Irell has had no layoffs and allowed 2009 grads to start any Monday after the bar.

Orrick has laid off more attorneys (140) than Irell even has associates (120ish).

Clearly, these rankings are not out of wack at all, lol.

I <3 GP

Let's all just agree: Vault is incredible New York focused and generally East Coast biased. Munger and Irell are just as selective and have similar reputations to a lot of the strong boutiques on East Coast, but get no play in Vault because they don't have offices on the East Coast. Consider the Vault Top 10, aside from Kirkland and Covington, every firm is NY based. This is not to say that there is no merit to these rankings because of this, but it's a self fulfilling prophesy.

Look at Vault's regional rankings. Skadden, a firm with less than 50 combined associates in Northern California, is #1 regionally. Clearly, what Vault is finding is the most prestigious NATIONAL firm in a particular region, not the most prestigious firm regionally. The notion that Latham has a better reputation in LA (especially now) than Irell or Munger is simply laughable to anyone with even a bit of knowledge of how things actually run.

Word on the street is more people were cut at Cooley, any confirmation or update?

Confirmed and summer offers were around 30%

Goodwin goes up 11 spots, one of the biggest jumps in this year's rankings and you don't even point it out?

47. you are generally right. That said, both Munger and Irell are highly ranked than L&W in Vault's 2010 SoCal rankings,

When is Baker going to make offers?

First, douches! Suck it!

For all the D&L bashing that goes on this site, it is still up one spot from last year.

Considering that D&L has not frozen or reduced salaries and will pay market bonuses this year, expect it to continue to rise.

23..HAH.

As much as I think Irell people are douchy, I agree with the comments above that they are highly selective and more prestigous than many of the firms ranked above it.

GP!

Lulz at Orrick > Irell.

47 - yes, you've nailed it.

lay off every biglawyer for all I care

Screwed 2L here- who cares what you rank them. We just want some sort of job!!!!

VE to 190!

The DLA Piper bashing is rather obnoxious and remarkably consistent, like its all from talking points. Either that or it is the same person. I have no skin in the game it is just annoying.

I'm just about to leave Contracts 1, and this stuff sucks. Can anyone explain "considerations" to me? It's like the professor is making up words. I'm really beginning to reconsider this.

64, you don't really need to learn consideration. Just study Restatement Section 90 and all will be clear.

I just googled that and you're tripping me out, dude. That's SO advanced.

BTW, I just reread what I wrote. Considerations is making me reconsider! Lol, i crack myself up.

I don't care if any of you find work.

The guy who got me the job in Biglaw got a $10k referral bonus AND got to fuck me multiple times as well!

Regards,

Katten NYC Pussy Pass Associate

DLA Piper has engaged in mucho non-peer hybrid tough love!

DLA Chicago is a miserable place. You have been warned.

How about DLA San Diego?

52 - hopefully soon! Getting antsy here...

71 - I don't know about DLA, but Baker San Diego is a festering shithole. A bunch of dysfunctonal partners that can't get along and have no book business.

orrick eats a big one, right in its big, green pie hole.

▲
▲ ▲

ATLfags can't triforce

.

can anyone comment on fulbright's offer rate?

The word "embarrassing" comes to mind.

Hey, where's Dechert on this list ?? Oh, THAT's right -- Dechert didn't even crack the top 50!

Hey Jerry Romijn Stamos, that's a cool meme.

Hahaha. "serious people" = people who do research for oci = leads to prestige?

Sorry kids, in the real world, that's about as useful as knowing about the elements for promissory estoppel.

No word on Jenner offers. I'm not expecting anything before Halloween.

This is about as stupid as ranking MLB sluggers by 'prestige.' Revenue per lawyer is the only meaningful number (or it would be if reported accurately).

Stealth layoffs at Cooley all summer, with an up-tick after the mid-year reviews wrapped up in July. The East Coast offices have been shredded the most, since they never really integrated with the SD/PA offices and had no real client base. Cooley Culture indeed.

妈的奶奶的爷爷的姥姥的

81 - Wow, speaking of kids, your reading ability is about on par with one. Nobody said that doing research for OCI leads to prestige. And, I also agree that if you're serious about doing well at OCI that you'll do a little research about the firm before going in to an interview.

80 percent of all law school students never even get a shot at these firms and their high paying jobs

The Goodwin be sinkin. Poorly-timed overexpansion with pricey leases signed at the top of the RE market, reliance on a few big clients who are tightening their purse strings, adjusting back from bloated summer classes, stealth reductions for over a year now, and totally unprepared to recover any time soon. The vault rankings do not reflect the health of a firm. You are warned.

God, I picked a profession populated by a bunch of asshats. I can't wait to stack some cash so I can get out and as far away from you people as possible.

89: Amen to that. I spend 1/4 of my day job hunting right now. And yes, I am employed and quite busy. This job just sucks though--boring work and I'm surrounded by angry, anal and whiny people. And I've been on some of the largest "most exciting" deals in the past few years! This is apparently as good as it gets in BigLaw ... Sad.

88 -- If you actually want to warn people, you should provide the basis for your comment; you'd let us know why you think what you think and how you got your information. After all, many of the big law firms expanded. Many of them have expensive leases. Many of them had big summer classes. GP is far from alone. So if you want to "warn" us, you should probably come up with more information.

22 - I haven't.

47, 51, 59 - As Vault should be. All big deal work (and litigation) for the matter comes through New York. It's simple, there's more business and clients coming through NY. Maybe in '98-'00 when the tech boom was ripe and the Nasdaq was up at 5000 your argument would hold true. But let's face it the majority of big clients come through NY to Wachtell, Skadden, Cravath, etc.

If you are considering any of these firms, or have considered any of these firms in the past, you should just kill yourself immediately to avoid shaming your family by working at one of these TTT firms.

If you can't work at a V20 firm, your life is meaningless and forfeit.

I want to sex SarahSmile

Anyone have a Proskauer offer? If so , start date?

91 - Goodwin marketing.

97: No, I am a deferred incoming associate. But I read this blog and see a lot of "the sky is falling" posts with nothing in them that is new, or unique, or enlightening in any particular way. I can't take the posts seriously, even though the posters themselves seem to. So seriously, all you law firm people who allegedly have real info about how awful your firm is, if you have it, then share it. Otherwise shut the eff up with "the sky is falling."

98: I don't know anything about Goodwin, but the sky isn't falling. It fell a year ago, but not as far as some thought (or we just managed to spend our way out of a real depression). Either way, things will pick up and life will go on. We'll still create shady financial instruments and we'll bubble again and then that bubble will burst in about 2013. But it'll be a fun ride until then!

And yes, I'm a finance attorney in New York who has remained busy through all of this.

91 - typical goodwin dbag

GP dbag because he/she doesn't pay think anonymous blog warnings are worth much? You're kidding, right? Wanting credible info makes someone a dbag? Got it.
-Not 91

99 -- I never did think it was falling. Horrible recession, yes, and with a toll of serious layoffs. But the economy always cycles up and down. It'll cycle back up and down again. In the meantime, all we can do is be thankful if we have a job, and make backup plans in case those jobs don't work out. As you said, at least it'll be a fun ride.
It gets more than a little silly, all the cries of this firm or that firm on the brink of disaster. All firms took a hit, and many took big hits. But that doesn't mean these firms are going under. (And anyway, even if they do -- exactly what can associates, especially incomings, do about it? Not like the market for new grads is hopping.)
-- 91/98

DLA offers are rolling in . . .

89 -- You realize 95% of other Big Law attorneys feel exactly the same. It's the central motto of our profession: "Make money and GTFO as fast as possible."

It virtually never works though. Word to the wise. The motto NEVER works.

It is not even that DLA merged with any firm that they could. It is that DLA is not really a firm at all. They claim to be the largest firm in the world, but that is a lie. DLA is nothing more than a bunch of international firms that have alliances. They do not share revenue/costs. They do not even share databases. If you are in a west coast office of DLA, you only have access to docs from a few other west coast offices. Those offices are not networked to the east coast offices and certainly not with the international "offices." As everyone else has mentioned, DLA's rates are way too high and it is generally a crappy place to work.

105 must have been laid off a long time ago...

105 - not true about DLA doc access within the US; all US docs are available to all US offices, you just have to access different daatbasea in the doc mgmt system.

90 - You're not a lawyer if you work on "deals."

Latham is worse than all of these firms. Latham should close its NYC office - rats of new york.

-I slept with Dave Gordon's mother

Orrick should be down 40 spots!

Goodwin DC is an interesting shop. Before about 2005 they were a very prestigious lit boutique called Shea & Gardner. Shea could recruit the best of the best, so almost all of their attorneys were former federal clerks, including some SCOTUS clerks. They offered decent hours and good, though not top, pay. It was a nice alternative to the typical biglaw firm.

Despite assurances from the partners that the firm wold retain its unique culture after the merger, things changed very quickly. And now the firm is indistinguishable from every other biglaw office. They can no longer recruit top talent (or even anything close to it) and the hours have gotten worse.

FOR THE LA TROLLS:

As NYC law loses its prominence, as it has been doing for a long time, LA firms will slowly take their place in the sun. Then we will see firms like Munger and Quinn in the top 20 (with Gibson still higher ranked no doubt) and Irell in the top 30-35. I for one feel that OMM is a top 30 firm, at best. Jenner will be a firm to watch, especially in LA where they are growing a high-talent lit office. There are also several other really good firms in LA, however, they aren't national and won't ever end up on Vault (i.e., Horvitz, Caldwell Leslie, etc.).

stealth layoffs at baker DC

91: Deferred GP first-year, eh? Glad I'm not in your shoes. Keep your eyes open and ask around, when/if you ever start working there. GP had some of the worst timing and client mix of many firms. And if you believe the layoff figures at the top of this post, keep drinking the kool-aid.

Oh yeah--I have first-hand info that some key partners are also looking to leave GP. They don't want ot be saddled with the piss-poor management and debt burden acquired in the past few years.

any news on Dewey offers?

any advice for a dewey cb?

VE is awesome! They have Diet Dr. Pepper in their soda fountains!

DLA gave offers to 100% (5 of 5) in my office.

113 - which practice groups?

DLA gave offers to all in my office too (4 of 4)...not bad

had a callback at irell, does anyone know how long they take to get back to interviewees? also, any info on their offer/callback ratio would be appreciated.

120-
I don't know how that information would help you. You need to kick ass at your callback. Don't worry about the "odds" of getting an offer.
hth

115 -- Dewey gave offers to 100% of its summers this year. I assume that's the question you were asking.

121: i already had my callback. hopefully i kicked ass, i was mainly just wondering what day their recruiting committee met.

i can't believe that kinky spalding is not ranked much higher.

after all, what other firm can boast of a lesbian hiring partner who allegedly had sex with clients at her prior firm ?

kinky rocks !

King & Spalding anywhere in the top 100? What a joke! A joke of a law firm...

Where can I get some of this Venison and Elk?

As a former King & Spalding associate, I can honestly say this firm was the worst place I have ever worked at -- not just worst law firm, but worst workplace period. I thank God every day that I no longer work there or have to list them as my employer. The firm is grossly mismanaged, compounding repeated terrible decision-making with a dog eat dog culture (a bunch of independent contractors sharing space to reduce overhead) that makes the firm's touted "no jerk" policy look pathetic and ridiculous. I have painted my description of King & Spalding with a broad stroke because although there are some good people at the firm, these few individuals are, unfortunately, not in positions of authority, so they are unable to control the wretched decisions made at the top. I would NEVER recommend this firm to any client, much less anyone looking to begin their career here.

Word is Jenner's started to extend offers. Or, more accurately, it's started to no-offer. In droves.

Does anyone at Orrick know if people are happy that Lanny David left? Was he an equity partner? Did he have a large book of portable business? Has it moved with him?