Fall Recruiting Open Thread: Vault 91 - 100 (2010)
Here we are. The end of the Vault 100.
To be on the Vault 100 is to be a well-known firm. Sure, maybe not well-known to law students or junior associates who can’t see past the mountain of doc review boxes in their windowless conference rooms. But known to partners … and clients. Look down your nose at these firms if you wish, but remember the old African proverb: “The smallest elephant can still crush your Lexus.”
Here is the final batch of top law firms for discussion:
91. Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
92. Blank Rome
93. Seyfarth Shaw
94. Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel
95. Manatt Phelps & Phillips
96. Squire Sanders & Dempsey
97. Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton
98. Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler
99. Wiley Rein
100. Mintz Levin Cohn Ferris Glovsky and Popeo
What say you about these fine firms? Some final thoughts after the jump.
At the beginning of the recession, some people predicted that firms at the bottom end of the Vault rankings would face grave difficulties. Some said they would have to merge, others warned that they would fold. And last year’s #92 firm, Thelen, did in fact go the way of the mastodon.
But here we are, a year after Lehman collapsed and America noticed it was locked in a horrible recession, and these firms are hanging on. Some of these firms have had layoffs, cut salaries, deferred incoming associates, and canceled summer programs. But they are surviving. And that is something to get fired up about.
Face to face, out in the heat
Hangin’ tough, stayin’ hungry
They stack the odds ‘til we take to the street
For we kill with the skill to survive
Which of these firms still has the eye of the tiger?
Earlier: Vault Open Threads - 2010
(95) 
Comments
Hey, where's the Biden caption vote?
First. No one cares... about being first or these firms.
Blank Rome for the Lose. By June 30, 2010. Entrepeneurial Partners hate it there (compensation arrangements are secrets closely guarded by the Executive Committee and anyone who discloses what he makes to another partner is subject to the axe), and the failure of the firm's major rainmaker to return has pretty much cooked the plans for world domination. They might still make it, because they are in crappy space, but they've overextended in New York and elsewhere. And given the personality of the typical BR lawyer, good riddance.
I feel bad for BING and Microsoft's desperate attempt to get people to use it. It's not going to happen. Google won. BING will be dead by April.
Blank Rome's managing partner is almost 18 years old.
How is Wiley Rein so low on these rankings? It has top-notch people and is very well-connected in DC. The year it handled the Blackberry case, it had top PPP.
These non-peer and non-preeminent law firms deserve zero attention; the goings-on of ants on an ant hill is of little interest to me.
6, because they have been on the steady decline ever since--layoffs, no offers, cold offers, "deferrals," etc.
I have an interesting situation, and I'm hoping I can get some advice from the ATL crowd. I'm a top 10% 3L at NYLS. I think I'd prefer biglaw, since I have so much debt. If I choose to interview with the NY office of one of these firms, should I disclose that my MPRE score is two points shy of the NY state requirement, or should I just pick a firm and then retake it, never letting them know I 'failed' the first time? Please advise. Thanks in advance.
Stroock me gently.
What say us about these firms. Look like a lot of shitbird firms to me. All loser firms as far as I can tell. I know each, and I know them to be shitbird quality.
Patterson Belknapp is very selective - you'd have a much more difficult time getting a job there then say skadden or a bunch of other highly ranked vault firms. They do great work and are known as a haven for coa clerks who don't want to work for a sweatshop - hence the lower PPP.
Elie! I'm back!!!
12 - Agreed. Surprising that Patterson isn't higher on the prestige rankings given the people they get.
These places suck boner. I'd rather work in small law.
7 - i don't agree, you elitist.
9: if you're not trolling (which you probably are), obviously don't tell them you failed the MPRE and take it again. You only need to mention the MPRE if it prevents you from being licensed on the day bar results come out.
Kumite...Kumite...Kumite
Where's the bloodbath everyone foretold?
This blog is so TTT right now
12/14-
Isn't this Patterson's first year on Vault?
Just goes to show you that Vault often has no correlation to prestige among people who actually know the legal industry.
91-100? Where is big boys suggestion guy when you need him?
Stroock said it would make offers to summers in mid-August. It's now mid-September.
Yo, halitosis, eat some Mintz
I knew Stroock was TTT when they asked me for a writing sample during the screening interview.
To my knowledge, Mastodons still exist. They are my third favorite large mammal.
what gives? are these just last names picked at random from a phone book?
Suck my ass, Mystal, you fat racist walrus!
Jumanji!
17, you must be new here. Welcome.
Many of these low-Vault firms are places with a lot of pull in DC - so you might look down your nose at them, but any one of them has probably had more influence on your life than any but the top ten, since they shape the regulatory landscape that controls your M&As.
Sheppard Mullin pays top salaries and hasn't had any layoffs. I think they're underranked.
Sheppard Mullin pays top salaries and hasn't had any layoffs. I think they're underranked.
****
yeah, but people piss on the toilets there
There is no T-T-T in P-R-E-S-T-I-G-E
I BE STROOCKIN'. THAT'S WHAT I BE DOIN'.
there's a lot to be said for working with nice people.
Mintz should be number one
25 - at least Stroock didn't ask you for a urine sample during the interview. One of the partners made me pee in his coffee mug.
has kramer levin given out offers? (to 2Ls, not their current summers)
what about squire - they have a good international presence
I haven't heard of any of these firms. I have a simple suggestion: Create two ATL sites. One for the big boys and another - Junior ATL - for small firms in small cities. Hate to sound like a snob, but I don't come to this site for stories about some firm I've never heard of. The new site could be called Below the Law or Below Above the Law.
Wasn't Strook a top-10 firm as recently as a decade ago? What happened there?
ManaTTT is lame, especially its SF and SV offices.
Mintz is a huge Boston lobbying shop. Strong ties to the Democratic National Party. (Kerry's brother was partner there). No one mentioned this to me during recruiting time.
If you want an offer there, take anything with an "R" next to it off your resume.
32,
I heard that Sheppard Mullin has had tons of stealth lay offs.
Mintz is very liberal, and has a lot of political connections in Mass, and nationally.
My grandson Jake is almost as big a joke as my son. Jake, please go change your diaper - this blog is for the big boys.
STTTroock & STTTroock invited me for a 3L callback and, without asking me, called my 2L summer firm (a top firm in another city) to verify my offer. They inexplicably did this BEFORE the callback interview, which didn't even go that well. So I ended up with no job at STTTroock and having to explain to my summer firm why I was interviewing in NYC when I told them earlier that I wasn't interested in NYC. Luckily they were understanding and considerate, unlike STTTroock.
sheppard mullin is a piece of shit. vault lost all legitimacy by including them in the top 100.
4 - notice how Bing lifted the design of Kayak's travel search. No shame at all. Why hasn't Microsoft learned that people don't like bloated and flashy? They like minimal and efficient. el Google.
19 nailed it - seems like Thelen and Heller were exceptions.
Comment 47, if true, is worthy of significant attention from the staff.
Kash/Karen/Lat, please investigate.
Elie... well, nevermind.
47 - you mean you lied to your 2L firm and blame strook for having unintentionally revealed your deception?? Bastards.
39: Like Bratislava?
She Strook me all night long
stroock told their summers they would hear by mid-aug; still no word.
Blank Rome is a toilet. The people they get are below reproach.
50 - True to a point--in that not many entire firms have collapsed--but literally thousands of careers and lives have been significantly altered.
Yes, yes, I guess $60k is more than the average person makes, but I and my family had planned on my making $210k this year plus bonus. City life (especially with kids and a stay-at-home mom) is expensive.
--laid-off biglaw mid-level
Elie,
You should include one more post in this series where we can discuss the firms that fell off the V100 list this year.
Any word on Mintz offers?
I can't believe Stroock is interviewing 3Ls!
57- Im a fucking loser who is making 70,000 instead of 210,000 per year. I had the expectation of making 210,000 and now have no clue how Im going to survive. Oh well, I guess I will have to try to get ass off girls who know nothing about the way the profession works. Good luck to you with the wife and kids. I just to need to get a piece of arse.
31, speaking as someone who was laid off by Sheppard (and has friends that Sheppard also laid off), I can assure you you're incorrect.
I have nothing against Sheppard -- lots of great people there -- but they most DEFINITELY engaged in layoffs (though admittedly lighter than many large firms).
40, these firms all have several hundred lawyers and all have offices in major cities. In fact, the vast vast VAST majority of lawyers don't give a shit about Wachtell or Cravath, neither of which has an office in any US city other than New York. If anything, the coverage of firms like them is pretty disproportionately large.
Why the hell is Stroock interviewing 3Ls? ATL - do your thing...
15 is the fry cook at the Burger King down the street.
I have an offer at a PI firm off the last exit of the L.I.E. and these firms. Which should I accept?
- Carbozo, 3L
8 is wrong. Not only has Wiley not had layoffs, but it moved up the start dates for a number of associates that were deferred until Jan. 2010. Also there have been no salary cuts for associates.
They also gave offers to a large number of their summer associates -- more offers than other firms.
Associates are hitting their 1800 and 1950 billable goals.
Bankruptcy, Insurance and Government Contracts (they won that large Boeing tanker case last spring) are very busy.
38: Kramer gave offers to 100% of its summers--all before they left the firm. Told they will be starting at the end of October 2010 (if not earlier).
3's tone and comment are simply silly. Must have been rejected from Blank Rome. My headhunter sources tell me that BR is doing just fine and is have a very solid year.
59 - Mintz gave offers to 13 out of 19 of the summers. Earliest start date - early 2011
Hey 68, learn to read. He asked about summer associate 2011 offers at Kramer, not this past year's summers.
70, it was more like 15/24, to start late 2011 (i.e. never).
Mintz is a sinking ship, from what I hear it is a complete disaster over there - cutting salaries by 30%, layoffs every other month and NO work for anyone.
didn't Wiley rescind offers to all their clerks?
what is with the Mintz rumors? I keep seeing the same few things recycled over and over - disaster, impending disbandment, etc......I'm starting to think it is all the work of one bitter laid-off mid-level. can someone with OFFICIAL (or at least as official as you will get on ATL) knowledge please comment?
Seyfarth Offer rates? By office?
A headhunter tried to persuade me to talk to Blank Rome. His comments and my due diligence confirmed their positive story. I eventually decided to stay put for now.
Stroock called several of their incoming (class of '09) associates and STRONGLY suggested they take the buyout and walk away rather than defer until Jan. 2010 or 2011.
With regard to Stroock's "incoming" 2010 associates who opted not to take the buyout, Stroock told them that: 1) even if they opted for the alleged January 2010 start date, the chances of actually starting at that time were very low; and 2) if they took the public interest "deferral" until 2011, they should use their public interest year to look for another job, because although they are being called "deferred associates", they will never actually be called back to the firm.
With regard to Stroock's "incoming" 2010 associates who opted not to take the buyout, Stroock told them that: 1) even if they opted for the alleged January 2010 start date, the chances of actually starting at that time were very low; and 2) if they took the public interest "deferral" until 2011, they should use their public interest year to look for another job, because although they are being called "deferred associates", they will never actually be called back to the firm.
ATL - you should get the word out about #79 for the 3Ls and Stroock's current summer associates. They should look at other options since they can't count on Stroock!
I had/will have a second-round at Kramer Levin. We'll see about an offer.
52 - if a firm is interviewing a 3L, it is standard practice to contact the 2L summer firm to verify info only after deciding to move forward with a full-time offer. There is no reason to disclose the student's job search activities earlier than necessary. Especially without asking the student's permission first. This is common sense, and other industries with summer hiring systems (banking, consulting) do the same thing.
Wiley may have moved up start dates for some associates but others are deferred until "at least October 2010" with no guarantee that they will ever start with the firm.
Can someone explain to me why law firms don't hire unpaid summer associates? As a 2L, I would have no problem working for any biglaw firm without pay this summer.
hey 69, 3 here. Nice number, by the way. Your headhunters are wrong. And I don't "interview" at firms, I hire them for my work. I wouldn't hire Blank Rome to clean my office right now.
In case that guy was still wondering, yes, Kramer has given out offers for next year's summer associate class.
Hey 3 and 86, 69 back again. Sorry. Your tone at 86 simply proves my point at 69. No serious inhouse professional or business leader would project such a tone.
Hey 3 and 86, 69 back again. Sorry. Your tone at 86 simply proves my point at 69. No serious inhouse professional or business leader would project such a tone.
This is 86. What was wrong with my tone?
Sorry 86/89. My mistake.
At 69/87, I am referring to 3/85's tone.
Stroock sucks.
Stroock sucks.
90/92. I hire outside counsel now. I have never applied to work at BR, and I have both friends and enemies there. Cooked.
Looks like #48 got laid off by Sheppard as well.
Looks like #48 got laid off by Sheppard as well.