Lawsuit of the Day: This ACORN Stuff is Nuts
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is fighting back thanks to Maryland’s “Linda Tripp Law.”
For those of you that have been living under a rock, James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles posed as a pimp and prostitute to dupe ACORN employees. The two shot hidden camera footage that showed two (former) ACORN employees giving tax advice on how to run a brothel to the unsavory couple.
ACORN and their former workers are suing O’Keefe, Giles, and conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart - who posted the video on his website — under Maryland’s wiretapping laws. The law states that both parties must consent to an audio recording, and was used to indict Linda Tripp during the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal.
ACORN is seeking a lot of money in this lawsuit. Hey, now that Congress has cut off their funding the money has to come from somewhere. The AP reports:
The lawsuit claims the video damaged ACORN’s reputation and asks for injunctions barring its further broadcast or distribution. It seeks $2 million in compensatory damages — $1 million for ACORN and $500,000 for each of the two former employees — as well as $1 million in punitive damages from each of the three defendants.
As one tipster put it:
I read the basis for the law suit and vomited a little in my mouth.
It’s not that O’Keefe and Giles have clean hands here, but the “optics” of this lawsuit are pretty bad for ACORN. Let’s look at this in more detail after the jump.
Some commentators have hailed O’Keefe and Giles as heroes of modern journalism. That is probably going a bit too far. Over at True/Slant, Laurie Essig makes the point that O’Keefe and Giles are more akin to Borat than Bernstein. A professional journalist would arguably have a deeper understanding of Maryland’s law against secret recordings.
In response to the lawsuit, O’Keefe has responded as a layperson, not as a journalist or as a person who has received the advice of counsel:
“It’s not in their interest to attack me and Hannah,” O’Keefe told Fox News. “If they want to equate sex trafficking of young girls with videotaping someone without their consent, that’s their moral prerogative, but that just shows you how low they are.”
Somebody should tell O’Keefe that we have laws against sex trafficking and illegal recordings. It’s a pretty big government.
But one imagines that a dirty, rabid squirrel would have a better strategy for winning in the court of public opinion than ACORN has shown:
Andrew D. Freeman — an attorney for ACORN, Thompson and Williams — said the former employees did not wish to comment but that the emotional distress claim “is not an exaggeration.”“They’re doing their best not to watch television. They’ve sort of been prisoners in their own homes,” Freeman said. “While everyone, including them, agrees that some of the things they said were dumb, in Maryland we have a right to say dumb things in the privacy of our homes and offices without fear of being taped and without fear of being splashed all over the Internet.”
Were people in a coma during the late nineties? Tripp was indicted, but she wasn’t prosecuted for recording Lewinsky. It just looks bad to sue someone for accurately recording what you said. And there’s s a big difference between saying “dumb” things and counseling Superfly about how to set up a tax free house of prostitution. Does ACORN not know that they are in a political fight here? The right wing is coming after them, the left wing has abandoned them, moderates just want them to go away, and ACORN is coming back with: we can’t watch television?
There is a legally cognizable cause of action here. It’s just really, really dumb.
APNewsBreak: ACORN Sues Filmmakers [Maryland AP News]
Hey all you ACORN nuts. Here’s another squirrely story. [True/Slant]
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Comments
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FIRST TO SAY THAT ACORN DIDNT MESS WITH TEXAS.
Acornth!
ACORN is a booster of Commissar Obama. Given its past associations, it doesn't surprise me that it would offer tax advice to a pimp and a prostitute.
3 - Here, Here!
How many tards could a retard tard if a retard could tard wood?
Answer: go fuck your mother.
STEPTOE AND JOHNSON IS A TOILET FIRM!!!!
WHERE ARE THE OFFERS??? WHERE ARE THE OFFERS???
Acorn to 190!
If this actually goes to trial, as one commenter on another blog said - the discovery phase should be interesting. If they sue for defamation or libel, rather than the recording without consent (which they might have to do to prove damages) then the opposing counsel can demand a treasure trove of stuff for discovery, since the truth is a legitimate defense. Or something like that...
Your office ain't private. Especially if your line of work is customer service. This is a particularly dumb law.
And ACORN has managed to apply it in such a way that displays its dumbness to the max. Way to go, ACORN! Maybe this will clue some legislature in that this law ought to be re-thought. Now THAT's legal activism at its finest.
Elie, do you think that there is a provision in the Good Samaritan Punishment Act of 2009 that could be used as an affirmative defense by the intrepid duo?
"There is a legally cognizable cause of action here."
Elie, it's not as simple as you make it seem. Maryland courts have held that, under the MD wiretapping law, recording persons without their consent is only illegal if they have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." Therefore, this recording was only illegal if the Baltimore employees of the federally funded ACORN had a reasonable expectation that giving advice to the public on how to get away with child sex trafficking was private conversation that would not go beyond the four walls of the office.
I do, however, agree with your point that this lawsuit is insanely stupid from a political survival standpoint.
Wait is watching TV a fundamental right? What isn't a fundamental right to a liberal? Could their emotional distress be remorse? That's an emotion that most self-entitled liberals apparently can't experience without blaming someone else.
Is there anything worse than the mind-numbingly ignorant and stupid wave of "conservatives" that have infiltrated our nation's airwaves and public spaces in the past few months? I feel so, so, so, so, so badly for anyone who identifies as a conservative and has graduated college.
11, that makes more sense. I was trying to figure out how a public service organization could sue for the public finding out what was said in its public office. It just didn't add up. I'm glad not all of Maryland is crazy.
Association of
Criminals
Obama
Represented in the
Nineties
Who wants to bet this is dropped once the discovery starts and the defs (backed by every conservative group in the country) start asking for incriminating documents . . . . voter fraud, this, and who knows what else. . . .
Pyrric victory waiting to happen. . . .couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of clowns.
Just goes to show liberals don't think long term
Nice analysis. I completely agree - this is only keeping the story in the news.
Slight error though - you meant to say that Linda Tripp was NOT prosecuted for recording. Which is a good point, and my crim law professor brought that same example up.
And anyone who hasn't heard about it yet, will ask the logical question: WHAT was illegally recorded? Oh, just a taxpayer-funded organization giving advice on how to run an underage brothel and avoid paying taxes.
13 - 'If you are not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you are not conservative by 40, you have no brain." - Winston Churchill
11 - And even if that's the case, courts in other states have read a public interest exception into similar anti-wiretapping laws. See e.g. Thomas v. Lying Weasel Scumbag Bruce Pearl in Illinois.
Acorn's lawsuit is not misguided. The "journalists" in question tried secretly taping a number of Acorn employees before getting the dirt they wanted. Acorn was, very simply and unequivocally, set up. The damages to Acorn's reputation based on the acts of a single employee taped illegally and responding to an imposter bent on tricking its employee into embarrassing the organization, are real and were the intended result of the actions. Even the emotional distress caused to the individuals was clearly intentional. The employee who got "caught in the act" may have been acting outrageously, but Acorn as an organization (which certainly doesn't encourage this conduct, or at least no evidence has been shown that it does) is suffering real damages at the hands of these scumbags.
Should it be legal and permissible to set people (or an organization) up to look bad, with the specific intent (and consequence) that the victim is injured in reputation and material, by fraudulently posing as someone who needs help, secretly taping the interaction, and then publicizing it to the world?
I won't argue that the journalists aren't heroes. Let them be heroes to their cause. But real heroes are willing to be martyred. Let them pay. The "hero defense" should be no broader than the defense of necessity in tort (remember that first year case with the boater who destroyed the dock during a storm; he had to pay for the damage to the dock, but was immune from any damages for tresspassing) -- do what you need to do, but you have to pay for the consequences. Acorn was injured by the tortious conduct; it should be made whole.
Do the plaintiffs really care if the lawsuit "looks bad"? How much worse could they look?
Was that a turducken? No, that is the IIED discussion over which Elie is salivating.
So promoting child prositution = right to privacy
Love them liberals
Apparently, O'Keefe and Giles have good legal defenses:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmM3NjAzNjFkYjY5YzFjNzA0YTY0MWMxZWUwYmViY2Q=#
That statute is pretty dumb. In other states, investigative journalists can go into a grocery store and reveal to us that they store is doctoring old meat. People in Maryland just have to eat it.
PE,
Regrettably, I caught my housemaid stealing - no doubt a sign of these turbulent economic times. As a result, I presume you'll be coming by this evening to reorganize my wardrobe. Pilar had this wonderful way of organizing my sock drawer and dress shirts from light to dark. It's an exhilarating way to start the day - I suggest you try.
As it is the case that I founded one of Manhattan's preeminent peer investment management firms, and have subsequently made you a very rich man, I presume you'll be making arrangements to come by around 7 PM to complete this task.
It pains me to do this because this was an excellent post, Elie.
But how does the manner of recovering information affect whether they are good journalists or not? Shouldn't the end product be the only criteria?
Also, I don't think a lack of knowledge about the law precludes one from being a professional journalist. I have an absolute lack of knowledge regarding secret recordings and it doesn't even preclude me from being an attorney.
I love how Sen. Vitter (R-LA) keeps on attacking ACORN for this while he frequented numerous prostitutes in Louisiana. What an incredible hypocrite; but then again, that's about par for the course for the conservative movement nowadays.
Isn't there an issue of standing here? Acorn's license to do business in Maryland lapsed in 2006 and Acorn Housing's in, iirc, 2008. How does an entity which is operating illegally in the state of Maryland have standing to sue anyone for anything?
24, it does seem that they have legal defenses. Whether those defenses are good will be determined by a court.
Gee, 20, ever see a Michael Moore movie? These two should get an Oscar for best documentary of 2009.
I have a suggestion: ATL should start a separate site and call it ATL Emeritus. That way all the Emeritus avatars could talk to each other and stop annoying the hell out of the rest of us.
What a scummy organization. The dems should wash their hands of this group completely.
Are the rumors about Mystal and the entire freshman class at Hofstra true?
This ACORN stuff is only nuts if you actually still believed anyone involved in the video wasn't screwing around during the video. It seems pretty clear, to my eye, that the ACORN ladies are entertaining themselves on the job by playing with the poor actors who tried to play "gotcha!" Responsibility for this scandal rests on the stupidity of the American public.
I think O'Keefe was a UCLA Law student - not sure if he graduated. He should have known better about recording laws in MD - or maybe he did but didn't care given the explosive nature of his videos. This entire thing is a giant clusterf*ck.
- UCLA 3L
It's stunning that this blog- which can turn the most mundane legal story into highly sexually charged banter - does nothing with a story about a not-unattractive 20 yo wannabe prostitute and her pimp, Jerry Mathers.
How can ACORN and the fired employees be co-plaintiffs with the employees suing the videographers for causing their loss of employment. It was ACORN's choice to fire them.
How can ACORN and the fired employees be co-plaintiffs with the employees suing the videographers for causing their loss of employment. It was ACORN's choice to fire them.
35 O'Keefe graduated from Rutgers. Then he went to work. Where did you get that he was at UCLA Law? Or are you just making shit up?
I cannot stand this bastardization of the word "optics" by business-buzzword and government types. We have a word in English that already has that meaning: APPEARANCES. You're concerned with appearances, not optics. Sigh. At least Elie had the sense to scare-quote it.
I need some advice about having sex witht my daughter. Can Acorn help me? What is their phone number?
John Phullips.
Elie Mystal, defender of ACORN. If the glove fits, right OJ?
34- That's not the way the law works. It's obvious you don't have a legal background, which is fine, but I'll just provide the basics for you.
Non-lawyers frequently try to make arguments like yours, and they get frustrated when they see it goes nowhere. The essential point is this: In a court of law, you are responsible for what you say and what you do, and the "I was just messing around" line does not get you out of trouble. If you don't beleive me, talk to some lawyers or law students and they can give you more information.
The WSJ's John Fund explores Obama's numerous ties to Acorn: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204488304574427041636360388.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
Lol at 41
39 - thought I recalled him being a student or doing earlier "work" with another UCLA law student. But I also read this news story (check out the the last few paragraphs).
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/acorn_sting_pimp_is_nj_man_who.html
- 35
BREAKING NEWS IN RACISM
This entire post is racist. You failed to include in your analysis that this is clearly a right wing lynch mob that is pissed they failed at immigration reform, yet continues to be hellbent on ensuring that profitable employment opportunities are not afforded to immigrants. Perhaps you could include some discussion of these racial issues next time you throw out these rediculous federalist society manifestos.
Elie=racist
46 (and 35) My apologies! I've been following this whole saga very closely and that's the first mention I've seen of O'Keefe spending time at UCLA Law. Thanks for the link!
Just gonna throw this out there:
how about a claim alleging some sort of GOOD SAMARITAN LIABILITY?
13,
I'm sorry to hear that your process of feeling is going badly. (Note that if you "feel badly" that means that "badly" modifies "feeling," which doesn't mean what you feel is badness, just that your process of feeling is itself bad)
I graduated FROM college and am a self-identified "little c" conservative. (Note that you can't graduate college unless you take a college and measure it, calbrate it, or divide it into measurable portions - you need a preposition in there to make it work as a verb meaning "to obtain a degree")
12 = post of the day!
11/14 - ACORN might be able to argue that even though the office was offering a public service, clients who come in for tax preparation advice have a reasonable expectation of privacy inasmuch as they are discussing personal or confidential financial matters. Not exactly as bulletproof as lawyer/client or doctor/patient privacy, but I expect they'll still try to use it.
Can someone launch a diatribe against Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh so I can retreat fully into my cocoon of liberal smugness? Thank goodness for the WaPost, who ignored the story as long as possible and then did a hit piece on O'Keefe that they later had to correct. Wouldn't want my liberal preconceptions to be challenged by the facts.
"Tripp was indicted, but she was prosecuted for recording Lewinsky."
Yes to the first clause, no to the second. The state dropped its case because the feds (Ken Starr) refused to play ball.
For those of you defending ACORN:
You've seen the videos, right? I understand that partisanship is nice and important, and you gotta stick by your boys, but you do realize that in most of the offices to which O'Keefe went, employees offered advice on how to run a brothel staffed by underage sex slaves? I mean, you realize that, right?
If that's not crossing some line for you, beyond which basic decency trumps partisanship, what would cross that line? Advice on how to hide bodies? Not even Barney Frank defends ACORN anymore. Get your head out of your ass.
13 - I really identify as a libertarian, but I thank you generously for your pity in any case. Not sure how I would go on without it.
Let these idiots at Acorn sue. I want to hear these Acorn losers answer questions like: "So, tell me, how do you run a brothel again?" and "You know how to counsel people about establishing a brothel because.....?" The left in this country is truly pathetic. And to think my tax dollars are going to support these clowns. I cannot wait for 2010. We are about to take an overdue right turn........
The longer this story stays in the news, the more it hurts ACORN and the Obama administration. GOP comeback in 2010 coming...
20 = epic fail. Do only law students comment on this blog these days? Sheesh.
If there isn't a public interest exception to the Maryland act, the court will create one in this case. ACORN took millions of taxpayers dollars and at the same time provided advice as to how to cheat the gov't out of tax dollars. Thus the organization has a reduced expectation of privacy.
I think in a court of law the ACORN employees have a good chance. They were illegally recorded. It may not be illegal in all states, but in this state it was, and the legislature is well within its rights to make such laws.
Now, it is not like the filmmakers were expiosing illegality. They created the fantasy situation of a prostitute or a pimp. IIf they had walked in there as an ordinary person seeking ACORN services, they would likely have recieved the advice that such an ordinary person seeking ACORN services receives.
Now, politically, the Dems don't want to touch this because ACORN was never a big deal in their world anyway -- most Dems didn't know who the heck they were anyway. So FoxNews plays this up like this is the center of the progressive universe here and there's no one arguing the other side publicly.
But the courts, looking at the statutes, are likely to side with the employees.
52: Expectation of privacy is in the client, not in the service provider. Just like privilege is for the client, not the attorney.
Interestingly, they probably did have a real expectation of privacy. After all, don't all criminal conspiracies start with an expectation of privacy among the criminals involved?
20, right on.
Why aren't the people who posed as a pimp and a prostitute being prosecuted for their illegal behavior? Looking at the tapes, they met all the elements of conspiracy with respect to their sex slave ring. They were the ones soliciting criminal activity.
I see a great defense to a drug dealer charge. Take a hidden camera with you. Ask everyone on the street if they want to buy drugs. If a cop stops you, say you were just filming it to see who might be engaged in illegal activity, so you could shame them on the internet. The cop could not arrest you, because you are a filmmaker.
61 - So, when the police try to snare johns by creating "a fantasy situation of a prostitute," then no laws are actually violated, and the would be johns who thought they were hiring a prostitute get to go free?
52- You didn't even analyze your own argument. Even if the clients had a protected privacy interest, they waived it by filming and broadcasting the conversation. ACORN, on the other hand, does not own the privacy interest; it's reserved (if it even exists) to the individuals seeking advice.
- 11
64 - Please lay out all the elements of conspiracy that they met.
64, please tell me you haven't studied criminal law yet.
Well, some good has come from this. ACORN is reviewing its training techniques to ensure that their African-American employees will understand that it is wrong to import people to America to enslave them.
Oh no. There are posters gratuitously ranting against "liberals" -- just like the imbeciles on talk radio. Here too?
64: I've been out of law school for a while, but I believe you need mens rea for a crime. In a conspiracy, I believe you need intent. In this situation, there was neither.
64, good luck re-taking the bar in February!
This is Fox News-generated bullshit. Fox News is not a news network. Rather, it is an arm of the Republican party. Normal people don't give a shit about this. Who the fuck is ACORN, and why should we care about them?
Why go after a non-profit organization with little resources that does who knowsw what? So they got caught giving advice to whores? Who cares? If I set up a secret camera in mega-corporations around this country, I'd find all kinds of horrible, scary shit.
This web site should follow what other normal meda sites are beginning to prescribe to: If it originates on Fox News, its newsworthiness is immediately suspect and should be scrutinized heavily.
71,
Your right, ATL commentator are all a bunch of right wing nuts that go around bashing those that think differently.
"I feel so, so, so, so, so badly for anyone who identifies as a conservative and has graduated college." -13
47 - Are you an idiot? Nothing in this story, or even in the events being reported has ANYTHING to do with race!
"If I set up a secret camera in mega-corporations around this country, I'd find all kinds of horrible, scary shit."
Not really. I wish it were true that corporations are abetting underage prostitution rings, running cocaine, and smuggling rocket launchers. Would be much more interesting working for them. But in my considerable experience, a huge corporation is the most boring, sanitized environment on earth. Occasional sexual harassment is about as glam as it gets.
A fundamental principle of litigation. Call it the Oscar Wilde Libel Suit principle: Do not start a fight when your opponent holds all the cards. It's just a whole barrel of cheap fun for them, and a horrible, senseless, humiliating beating for you.
ACORN, why dost thou lust for an endless beating by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, et al? Truly, y'all deserve each other.
77:
Do you live under a fucking rock? How fucking naive are you? Do you know how many goddamned companies are involved in unfair labor practices, questionable stock trading, pay to play deals with politicians, questionable overseas deals, illegal bonuses, etc., etc.? What the fuck is wrong with you?
77:
Do you live under a fucking rock? How fucking naive are you? Do you know how many goddamned companies are involved in unfair labor practices, questionable stock trading, pay to play deals with politicians, questionable overseas deals, illegal bonuses, etc., etc.? What the fuck is wrong with you?
77 here. You know, these things that to you are "questionable," and "unfair," to my mind, don't really rank up with "intentionally aiding child sex slavery." I guess it could, in terms of drama, if you had a really pronounced bias, but you aren't going to go on Oprah with it. It's boring. Dramatically speaking, really fucking boring.
I've worked on many of these kinds of litigations for years, and I repeat: Eye-gougingly boring. Not sure if I was clear enough on that.
74: It might be boring for the stupid American, Fox News public, and, agreed, less sexy than this ACORN shit. But it has a hell of a lot more impact on this country than this small-time ACORN crap.
Elie, it's erroneous to write that "Congress has cut off their funding." Yes, Congress did pass a bill, but in their zeal to avoid writing a bill of attainder, they wrote it so broadly that it captured the entire military-industrial complex and most of Wall Street. See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/22/whoops-anti-acorn-bill-ro_n_294949.html
This bill will never be codified into law.
79, 80, and 81 - all three of them - are fucking tools.
To 61 and 74 who think this isn't a "real story," trying to minimize ACORN's importance in the world and act like it's Fox News generated "BS" that "normal people don't care about":
This is a newsworthy story because of the size--over a thousand offices in the U.S> and connections of the organization to our f---ing President. Read the John Fund article linked above. Obama's first job out of law school appears to have been with an ACORN affiliate, he was ACORN's lawyer, a trainer for Acorn, and said ""I've been fighting alongside of Acorn on issues you care about my entire career."
It is also connected to the highest levels of the liberal political establishment. Its board of advisors includes RFK's daughter, the president of SEIU, Bill Clinton's chief of staff (who's also the President of the Center for American Progress, not a small organization), and Clinton's HUD secretary. I'm not saying that any of those people were involved with any of this stuff that was taped. I'm merely saying that it's not some no-name organization that no one should care about.
It's also connected to the stimulus. Millions in stimulus money to a hyper-partisan organization, and you're surprised that it generates controversy?
Nobody's claiming that Acorn's the "center of progressivism." To some extent, the story is Fox-generated because the major news outlets don't generate news anymore, they just defend the president from the things that upstart reporters uncover about him (and then only after their ostrich strategy of "don't talk about this and maybe it will go away" fails)
And if normal people didn't care about this, you wouldn't see Democrats in Congress (with their comfortable majority) tripping over themselves to let everyone know that they never had ANYTHING to do with such a vile organization. . .
85: You're not going to win anyone over with hyperbole. Barack Obama did not work for ACORN, nor was he ever a trainer for them; he was the director of Project Vote for 6 months over 17 years ago. He was not ACORN'S lawyer; he served as local counsel for ACORN in one case: a 1995 voting rights lawsuit joined by the Justice Department and the League of Women Voters. Please - give us something other than exaggeration and ancient history.
There's no hyperbole there. The stuff is fairly ancient - but it's a connection. Most stuff that comes out about Presidents pre-presidency is old stuff.
We can say "yes he was" "no he wasn't" "that was a different organization" "no, that was an 'affiliate' (whatever the hell that means)" all day.
My point was merely that this was newsworthy. You've sort-of countered one of my three main arguments, but I think the point still stands - this is not some piddly organization or a made-up story. I personally am glad that Obama's throwing them under the bus (he's pretty good at that) rather than trying to help them.
And it's interesting that Obama's campaign has always tried to hide whatever he did for ACORN.
And yes, I take and agree with what I think was a subtler point of yours--that there is a lot of "guilt-by-association" being tossed around with this mess. True, Americans are too quick to use that. But it's been forcefully applied to much flimsier associations than those in this case.
“They’re doing their best not to watch television. They’ve sort of been prisoners in their own homes.” --Attorney for ACORN & its former employees
The former employees thought they were aiding and abetting a prostitution ring trafficking in 13 year old girls. I would imagine that's exactly the situation those hypothetical teenage prostitutes would be in.
Karma is a bitch.
From a lawyer reader (of Jonah Goldberg). He's not a specialist, so take it for what it's worth. It strikes me as pretty reasonable.
------
I just wanted to give you a quick lawyer's take on the ACORN complaint against Breitbart, Giles, and O'Keefe. By way of background, I am [redacted] .... but would obviously like to keep my identity concealed if you should decide to pass this along to anyone.
First, ACORN filed in state court in Baltimore to get the home field advantage, but there is diversity jurisdiction and it will almost certainly be removed to federal court. That will likely be the defendants' first move. I'm not terribly familiar with that federal district, but it is surely more conservative than a Maryland state court. Moreover, it lies in the Fourth Circuit, which is one the most conservative in the country, so there is an excellent appellate "back stop" that will be a great advantage to the defendants.
Second, ACORN's legal theory is very, very thin. Their only cause of action is for a violation of the Maryland wiretapping statute. I'm certainly no expert on that statute, and I have no opinion as to whether Giles and O'Keefe violated it. But, for the sake of argument, let's assume they did. The violation of a criminal statute does not automatically give rise to civil liability in the absence of an express statutory provision that creates a private cause of action. I've litigated that issue on behalf of corporate defendants many, many times and my recollection is that I've never lost on it. I'm somewhat surprised that ACORN didn't include some other common law claims, such as intentional infliction of emotional distress or false light breach of privacy. But the problem with those claims is the vast, vast body of First Amendment law protecting media defendants (which surely includes Breitbart, Giles, and O'Keefe here).
Third, with a little bit of careful thought, the defendants could plead some interesting counterclaims. The federal False Claims Act and RICO come to mind, and would be very interesting.
Fourth, even if the defendants don't plead any counterclaims, the scope of discovery against ACORN will be incredibly broad, as it almost always is in civil litigation. ACORN has far, far more to lose from what could come out during discovery than what they are asking for in this suit.
Fifth, it's sorta bizarre that the fired employees are joining in the suit with ACORN, the entity that fired them. That complicates just about every legal theory, and even has possible ethical complications for their attorneys. I'd have to think about the issue some more, but at first blush I think the defendants' attorneys might want to move to disqualify the ACORN attorneys from representing all three plaintiffs on the grounds that the fired employees have, essentially, wrongful discharge claims against ACORN. Even if the motion is unsuccessful, each of the plaintiffs will have to take a stand, very early on in the litigation, as to whether or not the firings were appropriate. None of them have any good answers to that question.
In short, Learned Hand once said that he feared a lawsuit more than death or taxes. With good lawyering from the defendants (which I'm sure their going to get), ACORN is about to find out what Hand meant. ACORN has very little to gain and a lot to lose.
New Rule:
Since puns are the lowest form of humor, don't use them
88 = Post of the Year!
All you FOX News watchers out there, use a little common sense. Had you ever heard of ACORN two years ago? I know I hadn't, and I'm a progressive. They really are not important. I've seen a couple of the videos, and it looks like they hire people a small step up from homeless, and probably don't pay them a lot of money. A couple of Borat wannabees wanted to make fun of them by presenting them with a bizarre request and seeing how they react. When Borat picked on the rich and powerful in his show, it is kind of amusing. When he picked on the powerless (in his movie), it seemed kind of mean. These filmmakers seemed kind of mean picking on some people who aren't that important or powerful in any way.
haha Elie-
what a joke- keep your frivolous blog out of politics-your analysis is very thin.
"All you FOX News watchers out there, use a little common sense. Had you ever heard of ACORN two years ago? I know I hadn't, and I'm a progressive."
Congrats, first of all, on being "a progressive." May you eternally progress. I'm a conservative, though not a Fox fan. I've known of ACORN for years. I am no more surprised by this than I was by news of PETA employees killing dogs. (Look it up.)
And ACORN was not some downtrodden little 501(c)(3). They've had shitloads of federal money, for quite some time. That's sort of what the fuss is about. Nobody would care if they were some two-bit shop, which happened to be liberal. These guys are "campaign action" unit of the Left Wing.
The thing to bear in mind here is that, sometimes, your side fucks so bad, that no defense can be offered. Leftist types look stupid defending ACORN. Give it up and move on to something on which you have a leg to stand on.
What the hell?? It's not just "Fox News" doing all the reporting on this issue. It's the Washington Post, Baltimore Sun, CNN, etc. There have been allegations of voter registration fraud and misappropriated taxpayer and donor monies floating around for years, not to mention instances of unauthorized partisan activity. That's a major reason why conservatives give a shit about this story -- not just because of some Borat-style video. You "progressives" apparently don't care about the shit in your own backyard. Of course, the videos are the least significant of ACORN's numerous problems, but they are sensationalistic and that's how things work in this 24/7 news cycle.
94, not to mention that they shook down banks for alleged "redlining" for years. That coercion led many banks to make loans they should not have. Now, where was I going with this?
94: ACORN has a PAC. The Supremes ruled that money = free speech, remember?
Conservatives give a shit about ACORN because O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Beck and Drudge tell them to give a shit about it. If this is the most important organization on the left they can find fault with, well, then the rest of the left must be pretty clean.
98 - The most important organization on the left with which conservative find fault is called "Congress."
Oh, and you can be sure that ACORN would not be such a huge story if the MSM got on it earlier on. NYT and co. made the whole thing bigger by trying to hide the ball.
newsflash - who gives a shit? prostitution and pot should both be legalized and regulated. hell, it would be in republican's interests (or at least, republican congressmen). further, those acorn employees clearly knew that joseph and his technicolor dreamcoat was not a pimp. that motherfucker wouldn't last two minutes on the street. these two employees (out of dozens of others that the "activists" tried to tape) were goofing around with the two retarded white kids. that was their only mistake.
this whole issue is retarded. seriously, who gives a shit? people who care about the whole ACORN thing one way or the other are a half step above a birther. seriously, just stfu and pay attention to shit that matters.
anyone who thinks ACORN is small time and unimportant needs to wake up. ACORN has over 200 other entities associated with it. One of them is the SEIU - a huge labor union with which President Obama is involved heavily.
Both groups also work with the Apollo Alliance, which helped draft the stimulus bill (which explains why ACORN got $8 billion in the stimulus bill).
Interestingly enough, the MD Atty Gen (who wants to prosecute O'Keefe) was appointed by a member of the ACORN Advisory Board...no conflict of interests there?
PS - this isn't an isolated incident - so far, videos of this type have been created in five different ACORN offices - Baltimore, DC, Brooklyn, San Bernardino and San Diego.
I'm starting to believe Sarah Palin about
OMG, 102, about what? about what? Come on... use a noun!
>>>>(which explains why ACORN got $8 billion in the stimulus bill).
Citation, please?
>>>> PS - this isn't an isolated incident - so far, videos of this type have been created in five different ACORN offices - Baltimore, DC, Brooklyn, San Bernardino and San Diego.
It is not a video designed to capture what is going on -- these are videos creatiing fantasy situation. I could go into conservative congressional offices with a hidden camera and an outlandish story and I am sure I would find at least five instances of embarrassing reactions to the outlandish story.
85 - Obama spoke at an ACORN function and specifically invited them to meet with him before inauguration to plan his presidential agenda. I've seen the video. He has worked for them...unless you think the corporate veil is thicker here than it really is. Also, he paid them to "get out the vote" during the election. In other words, he hired an organization to work for his campaign that has employees arrested in something like 14 different states for voter fraud and other voter registration illegalities.
If Bush had done this, you would be howling, so don't be surprised when people howl when your man does it. Obama, the community organizer, is in tight with the association of community organizers, ACORN (tighter than Bush with Abramoff), and he would have some problems with this if the mainstream media ever gets around to reporting it. As it is, my local newspaper ran an 8 column article on this last weekend, and the only thing the paper said the videos showed was "giving tax advice to a pimp and prostitute." (I can hear the liberals now: "Oh, is that all. Not even tax evasion advice, just tax advice. I don't think that is illegal. Gee, what is all the fuss about?") Nothing in the article about advice on importing children across the boarder for the sex trade. If FoxNews is anything, it is a feeble voice in the wilderness of liberal biased media.
But setting Obama aside for a second, and even assuming he has nothing to do with them--I would like for that to be true: ACORN still deserves to be shut down, so why defend them?
Does the fact that the fired employees are joining ACORN as plaintiffs mean the employees have not really been fired? Perhaps they were fired just for the benefit of public relations, but have been hired by another ACORN entity (one of the many hundreds)?
Just speculation, but it would explain why they are cooperating with the employer that fired them.
On the importance of ACORN: Our Congress votes on 1000 page bills without reading them. Presumably, they do this because they trust the authors of the bills. At some point, we need to investigate the hidden authors of these bills. ACORN and its hundreds of affiliate organizations are behind some of these bills.
The fact that many liberals our howling about a witch hunt belies their claims that ACORN is a small, unknown organization.
On their actions: Regardless of how important ACORN is, they deserve investigation because their actions are heinous and because they are using federal funds to advise people to violate federal and state law. I don't like my tax dollars going to organizations like that.
>>>>Our Congress votes on 1000 page bills without reading them. Presumably, they do this because they trust the authors of the bills. At some point, we need to investigate the hidden authors of these bills. ACORN and its hundreds of affiliate organizations are behind some of these bills.
Are you suggesting that the people in the videos wrote the 1000 page bills in Congress? or are you saying they are employees of an organization that associates with other organizations that writes the bills? I would be concerned if it were the former.
109 -- I am sure the connections here can all be traced back to Kevin Bacon.
This article would've been a lot more interesting without Elie's banal commentary. I really could care less what Elie's opinions are - he's just some loser who writes for a blog. Just give the facts.
109 - The people in the videos are likely incapable of writing 1000 page bills for Congress, so I am suggesting the latter. And that is still a concern. If this were a matter of a single rogue employee, guilt of management would be an unreasonable conclusion. But patterns of misbehavior across multiple states with multiple illegalities indicate management issues (whether incompetance, negligent ambivalence or illegal intent). Either way, investigation of management is warranted at that point. And the management are the people with access to Washington.
ACORN is starting to look like a federally funded version of the mafia. Federal funding is probably more lucrative, and safer, than actually trafficking in drugs, after all.
110 - That goes without saying.
109 - Affiliated organizations are often a smoke screen. It has been reported (by an admittedly biased source several months ago) that SEIU (founded by the same people as ACORN) has several hundred incorporated or registered organizations (many of them federally funded) all headquarted at the same address in New Orleans...a building barely big enough to house a dozen employees.
That is why I am doubtful that Congress will successfully defund this organization. They can just transfer the funding to an affiliate organization. And, we have seen that many posting in this thread are not willing to pierce that corporate veil: "Obama didn't work for ACORN, Incorporated...just an affiliated organization...which is totally different!" But not piercing that corporate veil potentially aids the hiding of alleged corruption.
The necessity of such a byzantine corporate structure for a nonprofit organization may be investigation worthy, especially when that structure would aid such corruption if such corruption exited.
If this were a matter of a single rogue ACORN employee, ACORN management wouldn't be joining that employee in a lawsuit against the whistleblowers. So why is ACORN helping (and not trying to distance itself from) the illegally-acting employees that it already fired?
First, I think there are many more tapes that are yet to be released so this may be one way for ACORN to keep them hidden at least until this lawsuit is thrown out. For that reason alone, this is not a totally senseless action. However, they will come out eventually so ACORN is probably just prolonging the inevitable.
Second, I think that this case is borderline frivolous (sp?) as there is no expectation of privacy in these scenarios. It will surely be thrown out but not until ACORN is left looking even dumber than it already looks.
Third, I think this is a stupid move on ACORN's part because of what they will likely have to produce in discovery.
110 -- It is pretty easy, change the R to a B, rearrange the letters and you have BACON.
Question from Lyndon Larouche -- how do we trace these tapes to the Trilateral Commission?
"He was not ACORN'S lawyer; he served as local counsel for ACORN in one case: a 1995 voting rights lawsuit joined by the Justice Department and the League of Women Voters. Please - give us something other than exaggeration and ancient history."
Is this supposed to be exaggeration or ancient history? Because I thought being local counsel for a client was the same as being their lawyer. Perhaps you mean it was unfair to dredge up such a minor case from Obama's lengthy and distinguished legal practice. He probably even barely remembers the case, as these things start to blend together after 3 whole years of practicing law.
Conservative America: want to know why you lost control of the country? Want to know why the majority of American - and the rest of the world - can't stand you? Then look no further than your reaction to this ACORN video. Rather than engaging in any meaningful policy discussions, or making any attempt to govern this country and fix its problems, you would rather harp on some two-bit "journalists" tricking some dumb, fat ACORN employee into giving advice on how to set up a criminal enterprise.
50 million people don't have health insurance, our economy is in shambles, global warming is killing us slowly, and we are stuck in two unwinnable, unecessary wars. And YOU caused, and continue to exacerbate, these problems. Do you really think that anyone gives a shit about this ACORN video? Do you really think that this video is the kind of thing that would have any impact in an election? The Fox News blowhards can run this story all day - it just shows how out of touch and off-base they are.
Mainstream Democrats: You are electing Congressmen who are passing bills that they aren't even reading. They are merely rubber stamping legislation drafted by radical organizations like ACORN, SEIU, etc. You need to know what these organizations are like. Inform yourselves.
This is not liberal vs. democrat. This is honest republicans and democrats against heretofore hidden corruption...or at least it should be.
119: If Republicans want to talk about hidden corruption suddenly, let's start first with the $9 billion dollars on pallets in Iraq that just vanished.
You're right, 118. No one should give a shit about importing child prostitutes. Good times!
"Want to know why the majority of American - and the rest of the world - can't stand you? "
I don't know why your buddy "American" doesn't like conservatives, but Americans identify themselves as conservative over liberal by a 2 to 1 margin (40% to 21%). Conservatives are the single largest ideological group in this country.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/Conservatives-Single-Largest-Ideological-Group.aspx
ACORN is a non-profit. They can't afford to hire the best and brightest. They were attempting to HELP lower-income people who WANTED TO PAY THEIR TAXES. Then they were set up. The ACORN employees were not tasked with acting like law-enforcement officers. Further, they did not provide advice to ACTUAL pimps and prostitutes, but merely did so to two guerrilla ideologues who set them up.
I wonder what would happen if someone from the MoveOn.org crowd tried to set up some top-dollar accountants or tax lawyers who help the super-wealthy with tax evasion. It would be more costly, and tougher to fool them. But at the end of the day, there are lawyers and accountants who help clients effectively evade the IRS and the tax laws, which certainly costs society more than offering tax advice to FICTIONAL actors in the world's oldest profession.
120: Why don't we talk about corruption on both sides? I'm tired of Democrats justifying their actions by saying, "Bush did it." Since when are Democrats such fans of Bush?
And by the way, I'm not a Republican. I'm libertarian. I'm just trying to stop both parties from screwing our country any more than they already have.
120: Why don't we talk about corruption on both sides? I'm tired of Democrats justifying their actions by saying, "Bush did it." Since when are Democrats such fans of Bush?
And by the way, I'm not a Republican. I'm libertarian. I'm just trying to stop both parties from screwing our country any more than they already have.
123: Give me a break. ACORN has cash--enough for a board member to embezzle a million dollars and yet ACORN could not be bothered to prosecute him for it. ACORN claims 1000's of chapters and over 400,000 members in over 100 cities. It has two radio stations. It has two high schools. It has hundreds of operating and shell organizations that have received 10's of millions of federal money from multiple government agencies (IRS & HUD at least, possibly even the Census Bureau and others). Some of the ACORN organizations are "for profit" organizations that made 100's of thousands on the 2008 campaign alone. (The Obama campaign by itself paid them over $800,000, and unions and other Democratic funding organizations also paid them.) Now they are hiring Proskauer to perform an "independent" investigation.
And by the way, I didn't know the world's oldest profession was enslavement of children for sex.
First ACORN, now Polanski. What is is with the Left's insistance on defending child molesters or would be child molesters?