How you like me now?

"There were only a dozen of us. If they didn't need all of us, why bring us on for the summer? You'd think a major law firm would have better counting skills."

Welcome to reality, jackass. This is how law firms should have been doing this for years. I don't care if you got an "A" in Property I and II, I care about how you function in a law firm setting and if your so-called "legal smarts" translate into something tangible that can be molded into a solid document-reviewing paralegal.

They pepper jerbs!

Many of you inhuman cogs eschewed my hybrid tough love package. In light of all these non-peer firms' low offer rates, let me ask you a poignant question: would you rather embrace hybrid tough love or no love at all? Ponder on that while interest accrues on your massive student loans.

More non-peer hybrid tough love!!! I am loving this Big law bubble burst!!

Schadenfreude :)

Mid law secure.

Add some salt to my pepper.

I don't get it. If all of you Biglaw babies are so smart and such great lawyers, why not just start your own firm?

Maybe then you might do a deposition before your 4th year, and a trial before your 10th year (if you make Partner).

It's 11:00 a.m., and the news wires have now been running a story for hours about how Justice Stevens appears to have signaled that he intends to retire in June (because he's hired only one law clerk) for the October 2010 Term. In the days when this site was a one-Lat operation, the story would have been on ATL hours ago.

8,

Not every lawyer wants to be a litigator. There aren't a lot of solo corporate shops around.

The ship be sinking...

Any word on Daune Morris?

How can you expect this firm to survive when every baseball stadium in America says no pepper?

"There were only a dozen of us. If they didn't need all of us, why bring us on for the summer? You'd think a major law firm would have better counting skills."

We have seen this litany before. The fact is most firms made their offers in Aug and Sept before anyone imagined how deep and broad the recession would be. So, they were stuck with whatever size class they selected then. In many cases that was too many. So, they made a business decision. Why are law students supposed to be shielded from basic economics? I am sure that most firms expected when the offers went out that they would give jobs at their historical rates. The economy dictated otherwise. Face it--reality bites.

Whoooooooaaaaa. PE just owned all the law students. Bammmmm!!!!!!!!!!

This should not come as a surprise to anyone who summered at Pepper. On day 1, we were told there would be and offer for anyone who earned one - that was the last time we heard that. From day 2 on, we were constantly told that there were no jobs, and that we should keep interviewing after the summer program. Pepper did everything but expressly tell us we wouldn't get offers, to get their point across. To anyone considering summering there in 2010: don't think you'll automatically be one of the 50% offered - everyone there was on LR, JD/MBA, etc...Expect to be consumed with work while being told there's probably not a place for you there. Still, I'm not saying don't take the job. Good experience, make some connections, and if you're no-offered, you at least got paid ridiculously well for 2 months, take their money and move on. What else are you going to do?

Better to have summered and been no-offered, than never to have summered at all.

Pepper has a decent offer rate.

I guess you could say that's nothing to sneeze at

also, QUINN REMAINS

I'm beginning to think that many of these law students suffer from some type of mental disorder. Let's call it "self-entitled derangement syndrome." SEDS, for short.

where is the Hope and Change?

What about a story on Dan Slater's NYT Op Ed piece? Why is this blog so behind the eight ball?

Call me when a good firm does this.

I AM THE LAW

mcdermott? anyone?

I get the plight of summer associates, and I know he/she is frustrated with their no offer, but statements like "You'd think a major law firm would have better counting skills" make me think that this kid got what he/she deserved. What 14 said is COMMON knowledge. If you're not sharp enough to have picked up on that in the past 18 months, you don't have the "acute legal mind" any firm needs to bother hiring.

Elie moonlighting as a racist county legislator in Suffolk County?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/nyregion/03suffolk.html

Has anyone seen Kash's balloon knot?

I got an offer from PH - but it was a total crapshoot. I can only think of one person that deserved their no-offer.

What happened at Saul?

Again reality bites. If not everyone can get offers because of the economy some who "deserve" them won't get them. If a firm is honest and says it is the economy, then so be it. if they hide behind the "we gave 50% even tho we normally give 90% because this year's class didn't measure up" then they are jerks.

Here is an astute observation for you: Pepper Hamilton had more offers (7) than Morgan Lewis (6) and Morgan Lewis had almost double the amount of SAs (24 compared to 13).

Congratulations Morgan, your reign at the top of the market is over.

What about Duane Morris, Cozen O'Connor, and the other philly firms?

9- Who the fuck cares

32- A friend of mine said he saw Steve C. this morning - he was bringing a layoff wheel up to his office with the names of all the junior associates on it, and said he would give it a few spins. To keep employment numbers up, he has asked his daughter to continue to hire more idiots.

I don't understand why a summer associate has reason to believe that there's a 100% certainty that everyone will get offers of permo employment. It's rediculous to think this way. Almost all associates are losers. Why should a law firm hire losers. They take a look, puke on the spot, then tell them to go to hell and get fucked in the ass by all the other dumbass associates and associate wantabes.

The Philadelphia legal market is going to be hit very hard in the next upcoming months, according to multiple sources that I have...this is especially true with firms like Pepper Hamilton.

Clients simply aren't willing to pay $350 an hour to some kid right out of law school. That's the reality.

The entire big-law system is breaking down. Expect to see more lay offs in the future.

These numbers from Pepper are troubling. The real problem is that Pepper has been trying for years to become a "big-name" law firm....but Philadelphia just doesn't have the money or clients for them.

Pepper Hamilton? Um....a good firm a few years ago...but today things are very different.

Good luck guys!

The entire big-law system in Philly is breaking down. Behind the scenes, it's a really bad situation. The holiday season is going to be very bad.

The problem is, especially in the Philadelphia market, clients aren't willing to pay $350 an hour for some kid right out of law school, when there are many, MANY other mid or small firms willing to do the same work for half that or less.

The problem with Pepper is that it has tried so hard to become like Deckert or Morgan Lewis....but um...yeah....we all see where those types of firms are going.

Philadelphia just doesn't have the money or clients anymore to support all these young associates making $145k in Philadelphia. Think about that. This is Philly. $145k down here is equivalent to $250k in New York. Clients look at their bills from Pepper and are just shaking their heads.

Sorry guys, clients are waking up. They expect real value now, which these types of firms simply cannot deliver.

Good luck!

Answer to earlier posts. I have been told that Duane Morris only extended offers to 3 or 4 summers out of a dozen or so. any word on Cozen?- I heard they had a large 2009 summer program year to year.

At least Pepper was apparently honest in fixing offer expectations up front. Other firms such as Duane Morris, Morgan, and Dechert were either deceptive, or totally opaque as to their intentions.

Philly is a 3rd tier legal market like Baltimore and has been trying to act like New York or LA. The day of reckoning is almost upon us.

I like the "no one is willing to pay someone 350 an hour out of law school" mantra some of you have. Look, the firms will pay what they pay. If the work is good, i doubt they care what you are. They aren't willing to pay high rates to sub par firms or work, but where did this idea come from that they arent willing to pay first year associates money? What, they want to pay 400 an hour instead for a 2nd or 3rd year to do the same work in basically the same amount of time? thats just f-ing retarded.

When I was a f-ing summer i was emailing clients and directly doing work that was looked at by the bill payers. Its really not that hard.

What will end is the practice of alot of these wanna be philli firms and so on that try to keep up with NY. Only chicago has the right to charge at or near NY rates and pay NY salaries. Not even Cali could keep up.

Those of you who arent working in NY shouldnt make 160 or 145. But you dont need to make htat much to live well. Hell, You could live like a kind in atl for 110 a year, which is what they should be paying down there anyway

Philly a third-tier legal market? Are you kidding? It's not New York, no, but it is revered as a very good environment to practice law.

39 - I know both offered and no-offered Pepper summers, and all of them disagree with 16's characterization. The firm was not straightforward, and throughout the summer it misrepresented its economic ability to make offers to the entire class.

32: Drinker and Cozen have not made offers yet. Multiple rumor sources are saying Duane was around 33%.

Dear 41...

Here's the real situation, and clients are realizing it. There are only so many spots available in big law for young associates, especially now.

Go to some small or mid size law firm websites in Philly...you'll probably be surprised at the level of talent there.

There has been a "tickle-down" of talent from big firms to small and mid size firms going on for the past few years in Philadelphia.

I know of many associates at small/mid size firms who are Phi Beta Kappa, law review, all the rest of it....Clients are realizing this. Then they are saying...wait a minute...we can get the EXACTSAME quality (yes.) of work for half the cost...well......you do the math.

As a no-offer this summer my only regret is that I busted my ass off, worked 60+ hour weeks for no real, longterm recompense. 30K is great, but in the long scheme of things, it is a drop in the bucket. I could sense the trainwreck coming and I regret that I wasnt more cynical. I should have played HR's game and dawdled about and performed the minimum service.

46--

Sorry to hear that. I'm a big believer in karma/you get what you deserve and so I think that the fruits of your hard work and dedication will catch up to you. Keep your head up and prove through your work ethic that your firm made a mistake.

34 - that's fine so long as they have room for law students to take the departeds' places.

I don't understand why our summers -- who had the privilege, not the right, of working for a large law firm and making a lot of money over the course of eight weeks -- feel the need to complain to Above The Law and seek sympathy from the commentators. The workflow just isn't what it was expected to be.

Good luck to all the summers who failed to receive offers.

DOJ SECURE

50--

"Secure" until your boss tracks your IP address . . .

Because you misled them, 49. It'd be another thing if you had the integrity to inform them honestly of their chances of working there after the summer. Of course you, the enormous law firm, can do whatever you want, and treat your employees like chattel. How is that working for you right now?

"I would rather you just say thank you. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to."
- Pepper Hamilton

Do the 7 offers include any 1L's? Also, are the offers for Fall 2010 or January 2012?

to 49- not a pepper summer - but obviously 90% of all summers anywhere this year realized that it was a privilege. So sniveling Pepper HR mole or thumb-twiddling hour-padding Pepper attorney please get back to work. It is people with your disdainful attitude that do a disservice to the reputation of the law.

16 nailed it:

"This should not come as a surprise to anyone who summered at Pepper. On day 1, we were told there would be and offer for anyone who earned one - that was the last time we heard that. From day 2 on, we were constantly told that there were no jobs, and that we should keep interviewing after the summer program. Pepper did everything but expressly tell us we wouldn't get offers, to get their point across. To anyone considering summering there in 2010: don't think you'll automatically be one of the 50% offered - everyone there was on LR, JD/MBA, etc...Expect to be consumed with work while being told there's probably not a place for you there. Still, I'm not saying don't take the job. Good experience, make some connections, and if you're no-offered, you at least got paid ridiculously well for 2 months, take their money and move on. What else are you going to do?"

Comment 49 is exactly the problem....you see, number 49, law students rely upon their 2L summers to begin their careers. Have you had your coffee yet today?

"The workflow just isn't what it was expected to be...." Really? Wow. If that is the attitude of big law, then big law is in much more trouble than I had imagined.

52, you are sorely misguided if you think the associates are treated like "chattel." There have been no attorney layoffs. There is an assignment pool for junior associates, and some associates in the slower practice groups were given positions in the busier groups. That is hardly -- HARDLY -- "chattel" treatment, as you so eloquently put it. And let us not forget the current economic situation.

Wow, the Pepper PR staff is out in full force today. I'm sure the summers wish you had been this communicative with them.

49/57 - would you say the offer rate this summer was based on the economy, or on half the class doing a poor job? Be honest!

It looks like the HR dept at Pepper is hard at work....doing posts on above the law. I guess the rumors in Philly are true...the work at Pepper really is drying up...

58-LOL-It's a joke seeing all these big law firms trying to police their image. As if anyone outside the bubble of the legal world, had the slightest idea of the difference between Morgan Lewis, Fox Rothschild or Sonnenschein, Latham etc. With the exception of a handful of firms, large law firms are as reliably unreliable as a Bigmac is from Tokyo to Chicago. It has NOTHING to do with the firm's name, and everything to do with the quality of the exact attorney who is working for you. It is painful trying to see them distinguish themselves from one another - like Wendy's, Burger King and Mcdonalds - it doesn't matter if the burger is square or round it has the same general content. It is doubly painful to see them out on message boards to protect a meaningless 'brand.'

I was a summer at Pepper. After working with the other summers for 8 weeks, I remember thinking that for just about every one of my co-workers, I would be surprised if he or she did not get an offer. Needless to say, I'm very sorry that so many of them were no-offered. This doesn't help much, but I know for a fact that they will land on their feet. Great bunch of people, and I wish you the best.

- Your fellow summer associate who was no-offered

who goes to Tokyo to eat a big mac?

46, I had the same work ethic as you, but I knew that there was a good chance I would walk out of the office on the last day and never return. I think both you and I should be comfortable with the fact that we worked for our pay and that we never slacked off. Nothing to be ashamed of in that regard.

Wendy's is way better than McDonalds, duh.

59, no one is denying the fact that economic factors weighed heavily in the offer decisions. Ideally, there would be a higher offer rate, but the current economic situation cannot be ignored. I think we both can agree on that.

when I order a burger, I never ask for pepper

66, I (59) wasn't being sarcastic, I genuinely want to know. A part of me thinks that it might be the case that half of the class just didn't impress, and firms don't want to admit it out of fear of scaring away new recruits.

You need to understand that the executive committee mandates certain quotas, including the number of offers for summer associate positions and the number of offers for summer associates to return as full-time associates. When such quotas are mandated, the hiring committee must abide by them. As you can imagine, this places a distinct burden on the hiring committee, and tough decisions have to be made. I hope this gives you the insight you were looking for.

69, when did your executive committee issue its quota-mandate?

70, I wish you the best of success in your endeavors.

Thanks 69, I was hoping you'd just say "those summers did horrible work," at least then it was their own fault. Hopefully my firm has a higher quota!

Thanks 69, I was hoping you'd just say "those summers did horrible work," at least then it was their own fault. Hopefully my firm has a higher quota!

70 - you got your answer from 71. They could have told you, or at least given indication of what odds you faced. Even Morgan said something to their people.

The tone of 49, 57, and 71 should tell you everything you need to know about Pepper's attitude toward young lawyers.

WERE PEPPER'S OFFERS FOR FALL 2010 OR SOME LATER DATE???

Hi Meg. Feeling the heat?

Still, no layoffs, no salary cutbacks, fairly short deferment for incoming first years....Pepper's attitudes towards first years could be much worse. Incoming first years are probably happy pepper is making way for them. I for one would take 50/50 odds at Pepper.

77- Yes, we get it, more Pepper HR posts. Give it a rest, it's egregious.

This is embarrassing on a new level - I've never seen a firm's toadies so actively at work in the comments on ATL.

PEPPER HAMILTON DID NOT BREAK 50% IF THE 7 OFFERS INCLUDES THE THREE 1L'S!!!!

77 here - don't work for pepper, sorry. just telling it like it is, as a law student i'd kill for a 50/50 shot at a firm who hasn't had lay offs or massive deferments. times are tough!!

Tell me why I should work at Pepper Hamilton next summer if I receive an offer after my callback interview. I'm just not seeing it with the low 2009 AND 2008 offer rates. The firms with low offer rates this year, like Morgan Lewis, at least gave 100% offers the previous year. And with the layoffs, I don't know...

76--apparently.

79 - Pepper hasn't made decisions on the 1Ls, so they aren't included. I'm guessing the 1Ls are getting no-offered too.

81 - Because after you are no-offered, you can find out why in the comments of ATL.

76....my thinking exactly. The Pepper facade is crumbling away...clients are complaining....the reputation is going down fast.

Hmmm...maybe Pepper has to start treating law students and young associates like human beings again?

83, is the 7 offers for Philadelphia, or firm wide? How did the other offices do?

83: THAT MAKES SENSE. THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL EVEN HAVE A SUMMER PROGRAM NEXT YEAR (NO FIRM DOES AT THIS POINT). NO SENSE IN BRINGING BACK THE 1L'S IF THERE IS NO SUMMER PROGRAM. THEY ARE PROBABLY DEFERRING DECISIONS UNTIL CALLBACK OFFER TIME. THAT IS WHEN THE REAL PAIN WILL START FOR EVERYONE -- NO OFFERS AND NO SUMMER PROGRAMS FOR A LOT OF FIRMS. THESE ARE THE UNFORTUNATE FACTS OF OUR TIMES.

Why did Pepper Hamilton even make Above The Law? Is the firm that noteworthy?

83, according to NALP, there were supposed to be three 1L's for 2009. How do you no-offer 50% of three? Do you break one in half and eat the other half for breakfast? Which half gets the offer, and which half gets the digestive system?

85, didn't you hear about the "fairly short deferment" that 77 (the non-Pepper HR hack) mentioned?

Only a few months without salary or stipend! Pepper first-years are happy because the firm has room for them! 2Ls will be happy to take their chances! 50-50%! And if they tell you it's 50-50, it means 25%, but you'll be happy! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT, you peon who made the mistake of entering the profession years and years after these miserable people did.

The layoff comments are not exactly forthright. There have been multiple associates in Philly, Berwyn, and NY who left the firm because they were advised to leave. Does advising people to leave not count as firing them?

Is a dissolution imminent?

Okay, so 50% got offers. But how many of them will actually start?

That is the question, my friend. I venture a well-educated guess of zero. And that is why "offer" is a misnomer. You are not safe until you are sitting in a chair on the first day of orientation. Even then, you are not safe because you can be laid off at any time. Didn't they teach you that in law school?

THE FIRST REAL QUESTION IS WHETHER THE "SHORTLY DEFERRED" INCOMING ASSOCIATES WILL ACTUALLY START IN JANUARY! WE SHALL KNOW SOON!

91, I can think of a performance issue with most, if not all, of the associates who left.

95, I don't think you're helping yourself now.

86, 87

No idea on the breakdown of which offices the 7 offers went to. Pepper had 2 2Ls in Princeton, and 1 in Boston, the rest in Philly. Anyone know about the other offices?

I think it's 7 offers for the whole firm. Giving the firmwide number of offers makes things seem better. No way Princeton can support two new associates on top of the two or three who are supposed to start this year. Boston I can see happening, though.

Let's just break down this whole situation and get past all the Pepper PR-BS on here. (Trust me, I have friends at Pepper PR/marketing and know that they monitor this blog. It's like a bizarre little CIA unit over there.)

This is not about the "economy." It's about the decisions of people over at Pepper. They simply charge way too much in fees. There are numerous reports of clients arguing against bills. Also, many of these clients are in talks with small and mid size firms to take their legal business elsewhere.

The situation inside Pepper is bad. The morale is low, as you would expect. There is a feeling that the firm will not get great law students again for a few years. Meg Urbanski (the recruiting guru) has a headache and is organizing an emergency meeting. Ouch.

All in all, Pepper needs to start treating law students and young associates much better. The firm got so large so quick that professional relationships at the firm suffered. People started being treated like numbers. It lost a "family" feel and started to feel like a cold bureaucracy. The hallways of Pepper are usually eerily quiet. There's really no energy or enthusiasm. It feels like a bunch of lawyer zombies on some floors.

A lot of associates are not happy with the current leadership. When associates see comments like 95 (citing performance issues for the "non-terminated" associates who were asked to leave), I am sure that will not improve things. The firm has failed to promote deserving associates to partner and partners hold onto work to maintain their billable hours at the expense of associates. The executive committee also seems to have failed to maintain and develop branch offices especially NY. The Philly leaders cannot properly coordinate work to the same groups in NY. The lack of structure equates to low morale there.

What are the offer rates for Saul Ewing and Duane Morris in Philly? Is is true that Saul only made one offer out of the three? How about Duane?

Also, how much more prestigious is Saul and Duane over Pepper Hamilton? I ask because I have call backs for all three. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but I really want to know. Thanks.

99, you better be very, very careful about revealing billing collection rates. You are treading on a very thin layer of water.

100, four well-deserving senior associates were promoted to either Partner or Of Counsel at the beginning of 2009. That's not what I'd call "withholding promotions."

101 - Did you have PH 1st round interviews already and got a callback? I was under the assumption that they had not begun?

104 - I mistyped. I mentioned that I was getting ahead of myself but I want to know now.

Basically impossible to become partner in their main litigation group health effects.

Pepper Hamilton sounds like a very good sandwich. Where can someone like me order one? I'd gladly pay you tomorrow for a Pepper Hamilton today.

to 16: Pepper was incredibly deceptive all summer. As a person who knows multiple people who summered there this summer, my collegues told me all summer how happy they were with their decision because they were constantly told there were offers for all if earned. NOT ONCE did anyone express to them that there were not jobs. While they were told to interview in the Fall, they claimed they tell every class that. I'm curious what law school the deserved no-offeree mentioned in a PP went to. From what I heard, the summers there worked their asses off with little thanks.

to 16: Pepper was incredibly deceptive all summer. As a person who knows multiple people who summered there this summer, my collegues told me all summer how happy they were with their decision because they were constantly told there were offers for all if earned. NOT ONCE did anyone express to them that there were not jobs. While they were told to interview in the Fall, they claimed they tell every class that. I'm curious what law school the deserved no-offeree mentioned in a PP went to. From what I heard, the summers there worked their asses off with little thanks.

to 16: Pepper was incredibly deceptive all summer. As a person who knows multiple people who summered there this summer, my collegues told me all summer how happy they were with their decision because they were constantly told there were offers for all if earned. NOT ONCE did anyone express to them that there were not jobs. While they were told to interview in the Fall, they claimed they tell every class that. I'm curious what law school the deserved no-offeree mentioned in a PP went to. From what I heard, the summers there worked their asses off with little thanks.

108-110: We heard the same story about deception last year in the other Pepper Hamilton story. Something about there being offers for everyone. Shouldn't that have served as a warning?

Agreed 109 - difficult to go from "there are offers for all who earn them" to "exec committee gave the hiring committee a quota for offers" (mentioned in post 69, probably by pepper HR who probably made a big mistake by revealing that). that's pretty deceptive. still, being told to go interview after the summer program is no small hint that things are going to be rough.

99,
What happened to Sharon Buckingham?

FYI all-there were 14 2L's

112, when were the quotas given? If the Fall 2010 full-time offer quota was given at the same time as the Summer 2009 SA offer quota, then I can see that as very deceptive. But what if the two quotas were given a year apart, which seems to be realistic?

102- HR mole- not spending much time recruiting now are you? haha. The last laugh will be at HR's expense. It's much less capital intensive for HR to layoff than to hire, and even less capital intensive for HR to layoff HR...

summers were told first day and all summer they had offers for all. they just lie. stay away from PH!

This would not have happened under Chub Wilcox. He is the greatest trial lawyer of all time and a swell polo player.

115 - Someone already tried asking that. See the smug response at 71.

Pepper is about the people.

95, I don't know if you realize it, but you are not helping morale at Pepper at all.

113, Sharon hasn't been there for awhile.

I guess the PR staff is out in full force today. And I guess it worked.

Is it me or does Pepper have a knack for getting themselves into all kinds of PR trouble. It seems like they always have more than their fair share of lawyers getting in trouble with the D-Board, and now we have this little nightmare as yet another act in the play of the only law firm to be named after a granular substance.

WERE PEPPER'S OFFERS FOR FALL 2010 OR SOME LATER DATE???

WERE PEPPER'S OFFERS FOR FALL 2010 OR SOME LATER DATE???

WERE PEPPER'S OFFERS FOR FALL 2010 OR SOME LATER DATE???

WERE PEPPER'S OFFERS FOR FALL 2010 OR SOME LATER DATE???

124, it's still up in the air at this point.

My sources tell me that Pepper has talked with a workforce reduction firm for consultation. It might not be quite dissolution (RIP, Wolf), but various options are being investigated, including catastrophic lay offs. These preliminary talks with the workforce reduction firm were apparently made in the upper-upper level management...like among 3 or maybe 4 uber-partners. Other peon "service partners" were kept out of secret inner circle.

The lawyers at Pepper-tron are beginning to envision Pepper Hamilton doppelgangers in their dreams, which hurts the firm's self-image because Mr. Pepper and Mr. Hamilton were two reputable and upstanding gentlemen. Paralegals and document clerks, already feeling alienated by the bourgeoisie attorneys, have discussed unionization possibilities. And, most importantly, the beef stew in the cafeteria has a new mysterious aftertaste, causing alarm among the paralegals, who eat it every Tuesday together as a group.

My sources tell me that Pepper has talked with a workforce reduction firm for consultation. It might not be quite dissolution (RIP, Wolf), but various options are being investigated, including catastrophic lay offs. These preliminary talks with the workforce reduction firm were apparently made in the upper-upper level management...like among 3 or maybe 4 uber-partners. Other peon "service partners" were kept out of secret inner circle.

The lawyers at Pepper-tron are beginning to envision Pepper Hamilton doppelgangers in their dreams, which hurts the firm's self-image because Mr. Pepper and Mr. Hamilton were two reputable and upstanding gentlemen. Paralegals and document clerks, already feeling alienated by the bourgeoisie attorneys, have discussed unionization possibilities. And, most importantly, the beef stew in the cafeteria has a new mysterious aftertaste, causing alarm among the paralegals, who eat it every Tuesday together as a group.

126/127, don't forget the decisions about salaries...

How come the legal secretaries never get any attention? How come no one mentioned the reductions in staff last spring?

122 - if this is what their PR staff wanted, they should be asked to be leave, Pepper-associate style.

Any news on the other Pepper offices? 1Ls?

1L's are being told they'll be told in the Spring, and the head recruiter refused to tell them what the 2L offer rate was. Classy, eh?

99 - Absolutely spot on! The much-touted "family" atmosphere of PH simply no longer exists. The hallways are eerily quiet and there is palpable feeling of misery and dismay amongst all of the employees (attorneys, paralegals, secretaries, cafeteria workers, etc.). I have never worked in such a place; a place where the instant you walk in the door, you feel such a horrid heaviness.

As far as the summers are concerned, I would most certainly agree with some of the other posters. PH has been utterly disingenuous with its summers. Both last year and apparently this year, there was a promise of an offer for everyone. Clearly, this is/was not the case.

This firm will most likely dissolve. The inner-workings are beginning to crumble.

Scheetz must be pissed.

An article about PH is up on The Legal Intelligencer. In it Pepper's head partner confirms that all 7 offers went to summers in the Philly office. The rest is the usual "economy sucks so we had to make hard choices."

135, cut and paste, please. i can't remember my password at home.

Does anyone know when the rest of the Philly firms are expected to decide. I don't want to waste an interview (not that it will lead to a job or anything) on a firm that isn't hiring. I ask because Duane Morris is one of the larger Philly firms, but I've heard they aren't weathering the storm (just like the rest). On the other hand, Cozen, although not as large or national apparently had an extra large class this summer, but if they don't hire anyone what's the point.

Pepper Hamilton Makes Offers to Half of Its Summers
The Legal Intelligencer
By Zack Needles
September 03, 2009
After nearly a full year of economic woes, offer rates for 2Ls in some of Pennsylvania's largest firms are somewhat anemic this year when compared to those of 2008.

Pepper Hamilton has confirmed that of the 14 summer associates in its program this year nationwide, seven received offers.

Robert E. Heideck, Pepper Hamilton's executive partner, said all seven were in the firm's Philadelphia office.

Last year, the firm had 38 summer associates across the country and extended offers to 30, or roughly 79 percent, of them.

Heideck said the firm made the decision last fall to cut this year's summer associate class to less than half of what it was last year "with the hope that we would be able to give a high percentage of offers to those eligible second-year students who met our criteria."

"Unfortunately, the softness created by the economy continues and so we had to make some hard decisions with respect to the eligible 14 associates this year," he said.

Part of the problem, Heideck said, was that of the 30 second-years who received offers in 2008, 26 — plus one 2008 graduate who had a clerkship — are slated to start at the firm in January.

Their anticipated workloads coupled with the still-struggling economy hindered the firm in making more offers this year, Heideck said.

This year has also seen a number of firms pushing off start dates for their 2009 summer associates from 2010 to 2011.

Heideck said this is still up in the air at Pepper Hamilton.

"We hope they will be able to start in the fall of 2010, but we haven't made that decision yet," he said.

Pepper Hamilton is just the latest in a number of large firms that have reported lower offer rates and smaller summer associate programs in 2009.

On Tuesday, Morgan Lewis & Bockius announced that less than 30 percent of its summers received offers this year.

Morgan Lewis' firmwide hiring partner, Eric Kraeutler, said there were 102 eligible 2Ls across the country in this year's summer program. Of that group, 28, or 27.5 percent, were given offers to start as first-year associates in the fall of 2011 — a year later than would normally be the case given the deferrals of the 2009 first-year class until the fall of 2010.

In Philadelphia, the offer rate was slightly higher with seven of the 23 2Ls, or 30.4 percent, receiving offers.

Blank Rome gave offers to half of the 14 2Ls it had in its Philadelphia office this summer. That 50 percent offer rate is down from the 83.3 percent offer rate to its 24 Philadelphia summer associates in 2008, according to the Summer Associates 2009 supplement published in The Legal in May.

Dechert took a bit of a hybrid approach to making offers this year.

"We are extending offers to begin in fall 2010 to well more than half of our 2009 summer associates," the firm said in a statement. "Hiring decisions on the balance of our 2009 summer associates will be deferred until after the first of the year. At that point or perhaps sooner, we expect to have a better understanding of the fall 2010 demand for entry-level associates. We hope and expect to be able to offer some of the deferred [summer] associates positions that would also start in fall 2010."

In 2008, Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll had an 89.5 percent offer rate to its 19 2Ls and Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis had an 85.7 percent offer rate to its seven 2Ls. The firms had 17 and four 2Ls, respectively, in their 2009 summer associate programs, The Legal previously reported. Schnader Harrison also had one 3L.

Ballard Spahr pushed its 2009 summers' start date to 2011. •

This is the breakdown of 2L summer associates by office at Pepper Hamilton in 2009:

Philadelphia: 10
Princeton: 2
Berwyn: 1
Boston: 1

There were 3 1L's, all of whom were in Philadelphia. So Philadelphia had a 70% offer rate, while Princeton, Berwyn, and Boston all had a 0% offer rate.

Pepper is doing fine you haters ... one of only a handful of philly big firms not to have mass layoffs of associates or staff. Pepper cut the fat (under 8) after reviews, something it should have done along time ago. One of only a few not to cut salaries. And they are still hiring laterals. Associate attrition is at an all-time low and hours in most groups are up 20% and the firm as a whole hours are up 3%. Midlevel and associate satisfaction surveys are high. Easily the safest place to be working as an associate in philadelphia these days. And the money is pretty good too.

So for those telling ill-truths and falisities, please stop because you are just wasting others time... You're obviously a disgruntled former ex-associate (name changes dope) who got taken out with the trash.

It's funny how the statement from Pepper Hamilton and the article from The Legal Intelligencer reflects the comments in this story -- everything from the Executive Partner, rather than the Hiring Partner, being the spokesman, to the use of the phrase "it's still up in the air" when referring to start dates, to the use of "tough decisions" when deciding who would get offers.

140, so Pepper Hamilton is the safest place to be working in Philadelphia right now? What about the reduction-in-force consultations? But really, how can you call any firm safe at this point? You don't know what's going to happen. People thought they were safe at Morgan Lewis, Dechert, and Ballard. Now look at the situation -- layoffs, salary reductions, deferrals, and canceled summer associate programs.

Take the blinders off and consider brushing up your resume. I hope everything is going well for you, but you never know what is going to happen. Never. Don't get too complacent, or you'll be blind-sided. That being said, I once again wish you the best at Pepper and hope things go well.

I agree with 142. No one is safe, except for people in the federal government.

DOJ SECURE

144 comments on Pepper Hamilton? Maybe that should be the news story instead.

Anyone who signs their name with "SECURE" is a bumbling idiot, whether you work for Pepper Hamilton or the DOJ.

140 -- the person who makes a post likes yours is usually the first to be let go in the next round of layoffs or performance reviews or whatever you want to call it.

I'm just sayin'.

140, please tell me what a "former ex-associate" is. Is that a current associate who was once an ex-associate? I think you may be in trouble...

140 - In a recent survey, Pepper was ranked 7th of 14 Philly firms in associate satisfaction.

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202432476232

Nationally, you were 62nd, a drop of 28 places from the year before.

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202432480466

If that's "high" for you, congratulations.

Low associate attrition cannot be compared to associate satisfaction. Associates are not leaving because there are no jobs available elsewhere.

The firm hired 1 or 2 summer associates in branch offices and could not make full-time offers to those summers. I don't think that bodes well for the wellness of the firm.

149 nailed it. It's funny when someone talks about "low associate attrition" as indicative as a good place to work in this economy.

So, all the people in the branch offices (Princeton, Berwyn, and Boston) were no-offered. Morgan Lewis also no-offered all or most of its branch office summer associates.

What's the lesson here? Go to a firm's major office.

FYI-Berwyn SA was moved to Philly, so there was no Berwyn summer. Pepper isn't safe-Pepper is just sneaky.
-PH Associate who thinks their behavior is disgusting

149. Agreed. Because of the economy, attrition levels at many firms are much lower than usual. This has contributed to firms' inability to offer permanent positions to summer associates (see Lewis, Morgan).

It's preposterous to suggest that attrition rates are low because associate satisfaction is high. If associates wanted to leave, where would they go, exactly?

i thought the economy was getting better, with the Dow breaking 9500. What gives? When will business pick up?

I heard that the only people who got offers were caucasian.

Why does someone always have to play the race card?

Wow, this thread exploded into a mess.

157 - Pepper's people made it worse with their attempts at positive spin. That fired people up.

By the way, from someone involved with all this, I can assure you race had NOTHING to do with anything. It had everything to do with the firm's jarring lack of integrity, transparency, and respect for law students.

158, so is that better or worse?

Again, in the grand scheme of things, trying to compare whats happened at Dechert, Ballard, Morgan, Drinker, Blank, DLA Piper, Cozen to Pepper is a joke .. massive, multiple grouped layoffs to none .. salary reductions to none ... eliminating summer program or pushing back a year .. to a couple months (and actually having first years come in early), no offering 80 summers to no offering 5...

And reduction in-force consultations? Heard of no such thing and sounds like more false rumors from ex-associates, etc. The firm has gone out of its way to seek associate feedback, be flexible with associates in slower groups by allowing them to grab work from other groups, switch groups, and so on. And any layoffs would have already taken place here and thats a fact. Maybe some dead weight gets cut in the winter but Pepper has been far too lax on that for awhile.

Disgusting behavior? please..grow up and realize the economic times we live in...Since when should any summer associate feel they are guaranteed a spot ... gone are the days of geting a bad review on an assignment and still getting an offer or tolerating unprofessional behavior... Or maybe you would rather it be your job that goes ... nah -- you'd be on here complaining about that too.

And the sad part is that you have these feelings and still work at big firm just for the check ..why don't you quit and do something you enjoy and stop taking up space so umemployed associates who like coming to work and are motivated could get a chance

Oh god -- dropped 20 whole spots in an Amlaw survey -- really is that what you got -- isn't it more plausible that because the surveys went out right when certain associates were leaving that they tanked the numbers -- did you ever think of that -- because it wasn't just one catgeory -- but a flat reduction across the board -- signaling that 1-3 people put 1s or 2s for everything...

160, Pepper only no-offered 5 summers? I thought there was a 50% offer rate and 14 summers.

159 - I don't know. The point of this thread seems to me to call out Pepper for its shitty conduct toward its summer associates.

I think it's important to stick to what the firm actually did. Otherwise it becomes too easy for Pepper's PR people (who are admittedly terrible, based on what I've read here) to spin this thread as a collection of wild Internet rumors without any basis in fact.

160 is trying to fool himself into thinking that he's working at a great, safe firm. He will be in for a surprise in the near future...

RE-READ POST NUMBER 160.

SUMMERS, YOU DESERVED YOUR NO OFFER DUE TO POOR REVIEWS OR UNPROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOR.

YOU GOT YOUR CAKE, NOW EAT IT.

- Class of 2009 starting EARLY!!! :-)

160 is obviously misguided. As an associate at PH, I know for a fact that 7 were no offered, not five, and that none of the summers no offered got a bad review, nor did anyone act unprofessionally. There were almost no social events-it was pretty lame, no one even got drunk and acted like a moron.

That is one long post, 160. Are you sure you work where you say you work? Because you should be billing. That's, of course, only if you work at Pepper. And that's, of course, only if you are an attorney. I have a strong feeling that you are neither and you are an optimistic 1L trying to convince yourself that job prospects will be great next year.

164 - Some are starting early, as contract attorneys. Others are starting in January, without any assistance from the firm in the meantime.

But hey, they sent us cookies before the bar. Thanks.

165, I was a no-offered SA. Thanks for the info. I thought a bad review came back to me after the last day of the program. I also don't recall anyone acting unprofessionally, so I'm not sure what 160 is referring to.

And yes, there were 14 SA's. 7 got offers, so 7 didn't get offers (not 5).

165--your comment on the summer program being "lame" made me chuckle. I remember asking the summers about their social events, and they enthusiastically told me about the great time they had playing Quizzo in the office cafeteria. There certainly were some cuts. I don't think they did the sailing trip this year, either.

FYI: The price of the sailing trip is actually pretty reasonable when you divide the cost by the number of summer associates. Nevertheless, it was canceled due to the obvious perception of lavishness and care-free spending associated with a chartered sailboat.

Does anyone know when Pepper will make decisions on callback interviews?

As soon as they finish here, 171.

This thread has really lost its luster...I think I'm moving to the layoffs threads -- ex-associates provide much funnier posts than ex-summers or disgruntled workers

172, what do you mean as soon as they finish there? What I meant to ask was, when will Pepper tell us whether or not we've been selected for a callback?

I guess all caps posts mean the poster is shouting? too funny

I dunno, 173, watching the firm defend itself in ATL comments is pretty funny.

176 - true.

Elie and Lat should run a story on how desperate firms are to preserve their image.

Why no love for Pepper?

176 - Funny yes, but I wouldn't say the firm ... probably just some worker bee

This beats reviewing documents -- but god, hope i did not come off this "entitled" when I was a summer...

Sailing trips...back in my day we got a pad and pen if we were good

It looks like the Pepper PR-CIA unit is out in full force today. Don't believe the lies, guys. The situation inside Pepper is not good at all here. Of course, Pepper is going to protect its image...that's how we get clients to pay our excessive and unfair fees.

There are reports that the very top management of Pepper has had secret conversations with a workforce reduction firm: http://www.fiveoclockclub.com. But now all the "service partners" found out, and are pissed because they were kept out of the loop. The firm thinks this will hurt their prospects for good law students for at least a few years. The economy stinks. Everything is just bad now and morale is horrible here.

5oclockclub thats funny I doubt intelligent leaders of any firm would hire such an outfit. sounds like a happy hour club in college

184 --- why would anyone in college wait until 5 to drink? Try 4 o'clock club. Or, it's 3:45 and Fed Tax just ended, time to drink (oh, wait, that was law school).

185 - maybe they were studying really really hard to be a good law student, so that they could work at Pepper and get an offer......oh wait.

Hi Elie,
I think that your blog has become a victim of its own success in that firms are finding means of making stealth layoffs binding ex-employees to silence.
Given the abysmal news from Morgan I just can't believe that there haven't been stealth layoffs at those Philly firms that have not thus far announced any officially. (i.e.Pepper, Cozen, Duane, Drinker etc)
Can you provide us some info?

187-all those firms had layoffs in one way or another.

Wow. some interesting stuff. In fairness, I think that if you aren't worried about your job these days, you're probably pretty foolish. Pepper is not immune or different than any other place. I generally have no sympathy for summers - they are spoiled. Big firms use most of them for a number of years and then they move on one way or the other. Their experience is generally not better than anyone else's, just higher paid. It's just business. A high GPA no longer impresses me, and that is their only distinguishing characteristic. I HOPE THE ECONOMY GETS BETTER for everyone, if not there must certainly be layoffs at Pepper too. I can't imagine dissolution, but that means that business has to come through. In this economy, nothing is off the table. If you read Philadelphia magazine's good article about Wolf Block, it is obvious that the partners of Wolf Block gave up on the idea of Wolf Block. The idea of the firm, shared values if you will, was the glue holding that firm together. (any firm really) Once key partners starting jumping ship, it was every one for themselves. Perhaps a Pepper ethos exists, though I can't detect one. It might be just a big group of mercenary attorneys. Are big firms going the way of the dodo?

189 -- yes.