Nationwide No Offer Watch: Numbers from Kirkland and Orrick
We’ve compiled a lot of information about the summer associate offer rates at Kirkland & Ellis and at Orrick. Overall, summer associates had a pretty good chance at nailing down an offer at these firms — though individual results varied significantly depending on which you summer at.
At Kirkland & Ellis, sources report that the firm’s offer rate was a solid 85% firm wide. In Chicago and New York, that offer rate climbed to around 90%.
But out west, things were not as rosy. Multiple tipsters reported that the offer rate out of Kirkland’s Los Angeles office was between 60% and 65%. In Palo Alto, things were even worse. Sources there report a 50% offer rate.
Firm wide, a summer class of around 158 summer associates yielded approximately 135 offers for full time employment. In this market, those are good odds.
After the jump, let’s take a look at Orrick.
Orrick also had a fairly solid offer rate. But most importantly, summers that received offers from Orrick have a fairly good chance of actually starting with the firm on time after graduation. A firm spokesperson gave this statement to Above the Law:
Orrick began contacting its 2009 Summer Associate class 10 days ago, and we expect to offer at least 72 percent of our eligible summer associates full-time associate employment opportunities at the firm. This number could move as high as 80 percent depending on a number of individual circumstances.As you know, we restructured our Fall 2009 on-campus recruiting process to enable the firm to create as many full-time associate employment opportunities as possible for our 2009 summer associates. Although we are disappointed that economic conditions created an unfortunate backlog of talented law students wishing to join Orrick at the same time and required us to make less offers than we otherwise might have, we are confident that our early decision to responsibly shift our on-campus recruiting efforts from the normal time-frame to November 15, 2009 through March 2010 has enabled us to make as many offers as possible. At the same time, these steps will also end the unsustainable practice of deferring the arrival of our first-year associates.
The class of 2011’s pain is the class of 2010’s gain.
As at Kirkland, offer rates at Orrick varied significantly from office to office. But because Orrick is still in the process of making offer calls we don’t know if the our office specific numbers will hold. Offices that appear to have a low offer rate could just be slower at making decisions on which summer associates to offer.
As we approach labor day we expect more firms to make offer decisions. Don’t forget to let us know how many offers are coming out of your summer firm.
Earlier: Prior ATL coverage of no offers
(80) 
Comments
First?
I thought Orrick delayed starting dates for the Class of 2010 all the way to 2012 or something
Excuse me. Could you tell me how to get to the medical school? I'm supose to be giving a lecture in 20 minutes, and my driver's a bit lost...
Just curious -- if a 2L summered at one of these firms, and the firm, in previous summers, had a 100% offer rate, could the 2L bring some kind of reliance -- ie, promissory estoppel -- action against the firm, if the offer rates are so low this year? I remember reading a case involving Restatement 90 that covered these principals.
4 - Don't feed the trolls.
The remedy granted for breach may be limited as justice requires. Given current economic times, a lower than 100% acceptance rate is reasonable...
4 - Don't feed the trolls.
The remedy granted for breach may be limited as justice requires. Given current economic times, a lower than 100% acceptance rate is reasonable...
Dammit! Fucking 90%! Goddamn! K&E NY no-offer here, up shit creek without a paddle.
How you like me now?
LUCKY SEVEN
8 - How you like Obama's stimulus plan now?
Wow, Kirkland is no longer a viable option for top students. They used to rave about high pay and now this. Enjoy the gutter with Shearman.
大爷的
姥姥的
你奶奶的
靠
Can someone please explaint the following: "But because Orrick is still in the process of making offer calls we don't know if the our office specific numbers will hold."
#7 - Along with being a bottom-feeding attorney, I also sell paddles, oars and flotation devices. Call me at 922-2222.
There is ambiguity in the statement about Orrick:
"But most importantly, summers that received offers from Orrick have a fairly good chance of actually starting with the firm on time after graduation."
Next Summer's class, the handful of them that there will be, will start on time. This Summer's Class will start in January 2012
I summered at Orrick. They did not invite me to return after graduation, but they did offer me a nice XL Classic upright vacuum with a super handheld mini-vac. Did they count this as an "offer" in their official offer statistics?
#14 - You and your ilk shall be receiving my T14 resume in the immediate future.
11, pay is still high. 90% offer rate ain't bad. Likely appropriate even in boomtimes. There are always a handful of summers who should not be hired. But are when in desparate need of document review monkeys.
I wouldn't worry about Palo Alto, it's not a big college town.
LOL #4 -- Section 90 is of no significants. Go back into your 1L Contracts class.
Take the no-offer as a blessing in disguise. Working in biglaw sucks, plain and simple. Money isn't everything. If you think otherwise, then you haven't learned very much in life.
16...you might say that Orrick sucks.
Say it with me, kids: "Orrick DC sucks my balls."
There were only 8 summer associates at K&E Palo Alto. Not sure how that affects the reported 50% offer rate.
21: GOOD POINTS
#21 - Tell me how to deal with my 250K of debt other than biglaw.
Orrick 2009 summers won't be starting until January 2012...Elie, get your facts straight!
23 - Why the anger?
I dunno about good odds. Those summer associateships only go to top students from top schools.
The vast majority of law school students are lucky to be able to volunteer to make copies for some sleazy divorce lawyer for free.
@ 20, you are right. We should be focusing on the Rule in Shelley's Case.
This comment is addressed to post no. 26.
Go take a qualifying government job (almost anything in the government, law-related or otherwise) and take advantage of the new loan forgiveness program.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
26:
Phase 1 - Get implants
Phase 2 - ??? (after all, you're at best "lawyer hot")
Phase 3 - PROFIT!!
there are hundreds of experienced lawyers applying for each government job
You're all a bunch of simpletons if you think biglaw is the only way to pay off your loans. Go work for the government and get loan forgiveness, go start your own plaintiff's firm and work to get the big cases, or go be an entrepreneur and make millions. People do it everyday.
Stop being so scared of the world. Seriously.
33, I'm talking about non-lawyer government jobs.
34, Really?!?! REALLY?!?!? There aren't like hundreds of over-qualified lawyers out there looking for work, competing against recent grads? And starting your own plaintiff's firm straight out of law school is realistic, right? REALLY?!?!?
BIGLAW OR BUST. I LIKE HAVING A ROOM NEXT TO MY OFFICE WITH COFFEE AND TREATS.
@36,
Can you please spare us your horrific rendition of the SNL Weekend Update bit? Much appreciated.
36, you are an idiot. Look at non-law jobs, dummy.
Morgan Gives Offers to Less Than 30 Percent of Summers
The Legal Intelligencer By Gina Passarella
September 01, 2009
When offer rates for summer associates were the talk of the industry last week, Morgan Lewis & Bockius stayed relatively quiet, issuing a statement only to dispel reports that it was not giving offers in at least one major office.
In that statement, the firm did show that it was following a number of its large-firm brethren by giving only a "limited number" of offers to its summer class firmwide.
Now that the firm has finished informing summer associates of their status and has made a firmwide announcement this morning regarding the decisions, Morgan Lewis has provided more concrete numbers when it comes to offer rates.
Firmwide hiring partner Eric Kraeutler said there were 102 eligible 2Ls across the country in this year’s summer program. Of that group, 28, or 27.5 percent, were given offers to start as first-year associates in the fall of 2011 — a year later than would normally be the case given the deferrals of the 2009 first-year class until the fall of 2010.
In Philadelphia, the offer rate was slightly higher with seven of the 23 2Ls, or 30.4 percent, receiving offers. Morgan Lewis’ offer rates are lower than some of the other local firms who have given offers. Blank Rome gave offers to about 50 percent of its class. Dechert said it gave offers to more than half of its firmwide class and is holding out on deciding whether to give offers to the rest of the class until after the new year.
Last week Morgan Lewis issued a statement saying it would provide a letter to prospective employers for students who didn’t get an offer in order to explain the firm’s hiring decisions and that a "no offer" was not necessarily a reflection on the student.
Kraeutler said today that, for the students who didn’t receive offers, the firm would consider them for employment in the fall 2011 if hiring needs improve.
There were a number of factors that went into Morgan Lewis’ decision to extend fewer offers this year, he said. The firm consulted with its practice group leaders to gauge anticipated hiring needs in two years and looked at its attrition rate, which Kraeutler said was virtually zero since the beginning of 2009.
While some firms give an offer of general admission, Morgan Lewis gives its summer associates offers for specific practice areas. Kraeutler said this year’s offers were for a broad range of practices, but the bulk were given in the areas of litigation, labor and employment and business and finance.
Morgan Lewis has made a number of moves this year to manage its hiring, including delaying 2009 first-year associates by one year, forgoing on-campus recruiting in 2009, eliminating a 2010 summer associate program and changing associate compensation models.
Kraeutler said many of the changes to entry-level hiring at large law firms could be long lasting.
"I think that there are going to be some adjustments that are going to be long-term and one of the things that we’re looking hard at is the fact that the traditional recruiting process occurs so far in advance of the hiring date," he said. "The candidates we’re interviewing are for positions two years out. That’s a longtime for us. I think we’re going to take a hard look at that."
.
"...and required us to make less offers than we otherwise might have...." How can a BigLaw spokesperson not understand basic English? FEWER offers!!!
/Pet Peeve
Who cares about Morgan Lewis? Morgan Lewis is a crappy law firm.
41: Pet peeve of mine too. F-ing hate when people mess that one up.
85% is a fine percentage, from where i'm sitting.
-not K&E ee
34 & 39 - Please, STFU ASAP. You're going to put me out of business.
27: You are not correct about all 2009 summers starting in 2012. Get your facts straight.
What about Fulbright & Jaworski Houston - no-offer slaughter?
15 out of 100 spared Kirkland AIDS/swine flu.
On Fridays, I used to have the summer associates pull my Model T across the Brooklyn Bridge to my summer home in Sunset Park. In those days, there was a gasoline shortage brought on by the Spanish-American War so it made sense to keep some extra hands around the office. Once we arrived at my house, I would offer each of the SAs a jar of Ms. Latham's famous mint jam and a nice glass of "you're fired."
Now that they have the summer associate offers out of the way Kirkland can now begin their associate layoffs.
47 - yes.
47 - yes.
once again, atl is behind on the news. morgan lewis gives offers to less than 30% of summers (and keep in mind they eliminated the 2010 summer program) and where do i read it? not here. i read it on law.com.
does atl not do breaking news anymore? should i just read the newspaper instead of coming to this site?
Will this affect diversity levels at Kirkland?
53, see 40
Orrick SF offers went out 10 days ago...pretty high rate I hear. Are these calls going out today for the East Coast offices?
46...when else would they be starting?
what about kirkland dc?
orrick ny calls went out last monday.
49 -
Spanish American War was in 1898. The Model T didn't begin production until 1908. If you are going to be unfunny, try to be historically accurate.
49 -
Spanish American War was in 1898. The Model T didn't begin production until 1908. If you are going to be unfunny, try to be historically accurate.
49 -
Spanish American War was in 1898. The Model T didn't begin production until 1908. If you are going to be unfunny, try to be historically accurate.
47- can you explain your comment more re: no offers at Houston Fulbright. What have you heard?
Kirkland LA: Out of 18 summers, 10 offers given for LA office and 1 offer given for NY. None of the no-offers were white males. In other words, all no-offers were people of color or women.
The office refuses to communicate anything to the no-offers in writing.
(Kirkland trolls to begin their defense of the firm in 3, 2, 1...)
63 - I am not 47, but I have heard that only slightly over half of the Houston 2Ls were given offers. Can anyone confirm this offer rate?
More evidence that Kirkland LA is in the gutter, if the recent departures of several partners, the general thining of the ranks, lack of work, etc., left any doubt.
64 - were any of the offers women or people of color?
Kirkland is a horrific shop. No law student should sign up for that hell hole, particularly with only a 85% offer rate.
can anyone comment on fulbright's offer rate?
Fulbright Dallas was 84%. I am not sure about other offices.
64 - It doesn't seem like Kirkland enjoys nearly as much loyalty as it used to in the comments.
67-I'm one of the lucky offers, but am very put off by how Kirkland has acted towards the no-offers. (But then again, this is Kirkland we are talking about, so we probably shouldn't expect much.)
But to answer your question, out of the 10 LA offers: 1 female, 2 minority males and 7 white males. I don't believe that it was intentional, but I can confirm that all no-offers were minorities and women.
-not 64
70 - does that Fulbright Dallas offer rate include 1Ls, or only 2Ls? In Houston, 1Ls had a much better offer rate than the 2Ls.
72 - There were fewer than 7 while males at Kirkland LA this summer.
Last year at Kirkland LA there were only 3 white male summers.
A hardcore sorority/party girl from my school went to Kirkland NY. If you were at Kirkland, I'm sure you know who she is, but I don't want to identify her in any other way. Any good summer stories?
If Orrick makes you an offer, my advice would be to pass it up. I started 22 years ago when the NY office consisted of only six attorneys and contributed to building up that office what it is today. When Orrick realized they no longer needed my expertise, I was laid off in March of this year. Maybe Orrick should be looking at the "fresh" blood that runs the numbers that put them in that position in the first place. Everyone there has a title to go with the salaries they are making but they have no experience in what it takes to keep a firm running.
What's the offer rate at Orrick NY? If the overall rate is about 75% and very high in SF, supra 56, the rate is likely very low in NY - Orrick has approx the same # of lawyers in SF & NY, its two biggest offices.
74 - 1 of the 7 WMs is mixed-race but declares himself Caucasian for diversity stat purposes.
Just heard that Orrick is still making "no offer" calls...seems sketch to me