Mayer started making calls Thursday night. I'm not sure how many they're hiring, but they told me no dice.

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What's going on with McDERMOTT WILL & EMERY?

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I like enchiladas.

i got negged from mayer brown. (good school, journal, and a little depressed). also, heard there are lots of no-offers at other chi-town shops (classmates aren't expecting offers from kirkland; mcdermott; or jenner)

-- depressed.

SCHULTE ROTH AND MOTHERFUCKIN ZABEL

8 WEEKS, NOT 1 PHONE CALL SAYING ANYTHING

Ok Proskauer said it's going to be a while but I still wish I knew what was going on.

Fulbright & Jaworski's Austin office hasn't made any offers yet. All of the other Texas offices have (most of them over three weeks ago).

Howard is god, BABA BOOEY

Hunton

Just got no-offered from Mayer. They're making calls today.

You're not getting an offer. It's time to do shots.

What about Pillsbury San Francisco?

Sidley no-offered me last week and now wont return my phone call for those references they promised me. Anyone know about the other Sidley offices?

Three years of lame classroom sessions - 160K

Money expended to look for jobs - 18K

Passing the bar - 6K

Loss of opportunity cost (what you could have earned working a real job instead of parking your ass for three years and waiting to be called on like a monkey) - 200K

Interest on these amounts - OMFG

Realizing that you will never practice law - Priceless

Jenner & Block is still making them. I think almost everybody's been hit by now, though.

Anyone know about Haynes and Boone??

2, 5 and 11. I respect how you seem to be handling this situation. I hope I would have been as mature had these things come to pass 5 years ago.

-Mid Level Biglaw based in part on timing

T14 3L no-offerred at V20. Did not apply for clerkships.

Best case scenario outcome?

14- which office? Ditto here.

Baker?

Mayer started calling last night. Did not get an offer.

Skadden Palo Alto, anyone?

NOTHING from McDermott yet.

The three friends I know who summered there all go offers. Did you guys slack off and party too much. This was the summer to work your ass off. School and journal mean shit.

I haven't heard from Latham yet. Apparently, they had a bad experience with some first years and are trying to be more careful this time around.

Proskauer came out yesterday, at least in NYC.

Hey 26, you're an idiot. All LW offices gave out offer decisions last week... LA office offer rate was 90% -- can't speak for all of them, but one of those who didn't get an offer sure as hell didn't deserve one.

I think "no offers" are a good thing. They build character, and god knows that law students need some more character. The more no offers the better if you ask almost anyone in the know.

25, were your friends either blonde, attractive, or flirtatious? That seemed to get you everywhere at MB this summer. One of the summer partners was notorious for hiring "attractive females" (HR's words, not mine) for the summer, and then acting like a sleazeball (read: feeling them up at events and holding hands with them every opportunity he got) with them.

zilch from Heller Ehrman

Just out of curiosity, were 28 and 25 posted by the same person? I would hate to think that there are two people on this comment thread whose immediate response to hearing that a stranger lost their job in a bad economy is to insult and blame them.

27 - How do you know about Proskauer NYC? I haven't heard anything from them

Hey 30, can I get some initials and a city?

Hey 32, I blaming or insulting. i was asking a question and forewarning 2Ls that may read this: work your ass off during the summer if you are lucky enough to get a summer associateship! And hard work is no guarantee.

I feel for those that got no offered. This economy truly sucks.

And, yes, 28 did insult: but that is not me.

Best,

25

At 33, Should read, "I wasn't blaming or insulting."

-25

Milbank NY no offered over 70% of us this summer. And word is that they plan on revoking some of the offers of 2009 grads (who are supposed to start in January, but none of the associates I spoke with actually believe they will).

#33-they made calls yesterday. all the people at my law school who summered there were talking about it today

Strook and Steptoe are still waiting

Any of you young men who did not receive offers can feel free to send me your information, along with a photograph, and I'll consider offering you a personal services contract to act as an assistant of sorts. All inquiries will be treated confidentially.

2L here thinking about Weil in NY or DC...any info on their offer rates?

2L considering Schulte Roth, What's going on over there with offers?

PE, we know you are Lat. Give it up already!

14: At least my firm actually came through with some references.

15: TITCR.

Has Skadden made offers yet?

1L still waiting... Nothing from OCI ... I hate this

Partner E can I live in your basement as part of the contract? Thanks.

HOW ABOUT a post on a well-known and corrupt ACORN lawyer by the name of Barack? He ran a case for ACORN, and has been an intimate part of ACORN for years. But the media is silent. What about these choice quotes:

Sen. Obama: "I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran the Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work."

In a 2004 article in Social Policy , Toni Foulkes, a Chicago ACORN leader, said that under Obama's leadership, Project VOTE in 1992 delivered 50,000 newly registered Illinois voters that helped Carol Moseley Braun win a Senate seat."

OBAMA = ACORN

The media is no longer serving its purpose.

Weil SV is doing rolling offers/no-offers. So far the offer rate looks less than 50% with half their class on "hold"

Weil DC I heard was less than 50% (by a margin)

Weil NY was around 90%

Golly, an astounding amount of debt and no offer...what will you do...how will you survive...what will you tell friends and family...how can you possibly explain your failure in a way they will appreciate...you can't...even worse, instead of a comfortable, enjoyable, and secure third year, you'll experience one filled with uncertainty and foreboding...every waking minute preoccupied with the stress of not knowing...unemployment will not rebound for months or even years...no stipend or job offer to rely on as you spend a casual couple of post-grad months tackling the bar...rather, you'll absorb the full cost of bar exam prep and passage, all while wondering if/when you will ever practice...and the specter of bar failure in such circumstances is almost too awful to contemplate...still, how not to think about it - constantly...all of this as many experienced, freshly terminated attorneys constantly join the talent pool competing for fewer and fewer openings...really makes you wonder doesn't it? Oh well, I'm sure things will eventually work out for most, but will that include you?

Every day that I don't get an offer, Salusa Secundus seems a lot more attractive. Where do I sign up with the Guild for a ride there?!

45,

He'll let you share his bed.

14/20---which office?

17 - A friend of mine who summered at Haynes and Boone was no-offered.

37 - offers? no offers? How come I haven't heard from Proskauer NYC?

mayer no offer

Sounds like Mayer has no confidence in their ability to generate business in an improving economy.

33, proskauer came out yesterday, NY office.

What about Katten?

Proskauer NYC is gay? Wooooah.

I summered at a mid-size law firm in a secondary market, and we aren't hearing about offers until January.

56, did you get an offer?

50 I will take that dirty old man on ... same emotional turmoil less doc review

-45

55 -- I hope you're joking. Improving economy? Nope -- not for at least another 3-5 years.

39--Nice try. You are not the real PE. Emeritus is not spelled Emeritius.

Any word from Heller

41, no word yet.

Heller is planning on no-offering its SAs.

You heard it here first.

On the down low, hush-hush, on the QT.

I was at a bar tonight and Kash walked in. I spent a good 20 minutes flirting with her and even bought her a drink. When I made a move on her she no offered me. HOW DARE SHE? I mean, really, if I put in that kind of effort, the law should require the chick to put out.

None of you will believe me, but I'm a partner at a V50 firm. What you all fail to grasp is the degree that work has slowed down. In actuality, it didn't "slow" -- it came to a complete stop last October and has not really picked up. We don't see transactional work coming back for the next few years. Consequently, we can't bring in new bodies.

I sincerely feel bad for all of you, but we are running a business. The class I really feel bad for, though, is the class of 2009. They were hired before this mess got really bad. And now we will have to deal with them somehow. This has been the subject of a lot of debate, but there is just no way we can bring in so many new associates in January.

Here is what will happen: we will take a hard look at everyone's summer reviews and resumes and determine who is the best. They will start. But the rest will be getting calls over the next month or so, where they will be *strongly* encouraged to seek out other options.

I know you won't believe me, but this is the honest truth.

This post is addressed to the imbecile who posted entry number 45: No, you may not sleep in my basement. You may perform contract services for me and that is all. This work would likely include document review, legal diligence and other services that I may desire during the course of your employment. Our relationship will be primarily a professional one.

yeah, proskauer ny made calls yesterday. haven't heard from any other summers that anyone did not receive an offer

23 - Offers from Skadden Palo Alto went out weeks ago.

I walked by Pillsbury's San Francisco office yesterday and I could hear the death rattle from the street.

The legal market is still in depression, no matter what Bernanke said.

Bryan Cave sucks.

73 -- are you telling me work has not picked up at all recently? I just don't see how that's possible.

Heck, I have been waiting five years to hear back from some firms to see if I got an offer. I got my fingers crossed. http://www.stupidrightwingers.com

52--

Which office?

Partner E... You lie!

Tears abound ... 45

68, suck my d*ck.

- class of 2009 grad eagerly awaiting start date at ur firm

75, you're either being deliberately obtuse or you're an idiot. No, just because the DOW's gone up a few points, work hasn't picked up. Litigation is even slowing down, because too many companies don't have the budget to start lawsuits. It's not as bad as it was, say, in February, but it's pretty damned slow.

62- who the f are you, chief US economist at Goldman? I work on the Street, and although structural issues will remain for some time, I dare you to short the market and stay in that position for the next 12 months. 2010 GDP will grow by 4% at least. Thereafter is completely up for grabs.

81 - who the f are you, stupid Bernanke? Unless people are getting jobs/credit, there is no way the US economy is picking up. Do you know what 4% GDP growth in 2010 mean? It means we borrow debt equal to 4% GDP from China/Japan and simply spend it...doesn't sound like "growth" to me.

Look at the situation, they got me facing,
I can't live a normal life, I was raised by the state.
So I gotta be down with the 'hood team,
Too much television watching, got me chasing dreams.
I'm an educated fool with money on my mind
Got my ten in my hand and a gleam in my eye.
I'm a locked out gangsta, set tripping banger
And my homies are down so don't arouse my anger.
Fool, death ain't nothing but a heart beat away,
I'm living life do or die, what can I say?
I'm twenty-three now, will I ever live to see twenty-four,
The way things is going I don't know.

Mayer didn't love HLS this year...

Has anyone heard back a no-offer from Proskauer NYC? They said they were going to offer "most", but I don't know if that means 75% or 95%.

Mayer made calls yesterday. The unofficial running count stands at exactly 75%.

Heard Mayer Chi no offered 50 percent summers - any info?

75% as in 75% offer or 75% no-offer

75% offers.

Who gives a flying fuck about law firms?

I want to know about professors who don't support gay marriage, and law schools' responses. Isn't that what this site is for?

Got an offer at Mayer (Chi). Anecdotal evidence indicates the rate is much higher than both 50% and 70%. That said, there were a few very difficult to fathom no-offers.

Stroock made offers today. Seems like about 60% got offers.

84 - why didn't mayer like hls?

for those in the know and willing to be candid—a high bar to clear on this site?—is mayer brown actively imploding? are offices at risk of spinning off (or shutting down)? dc? palo alto?

Nothing going on with mayer that is not going on with the rest of big law

82:

I know you arent an economist as you make the same mistake a lot in your position make. You can have positive GDP growth without job growth. That's why unemployment is considered a "lagging" indicator.

the 1991 recovery (the point at which the stock market entered a bull phase and thus indicating the end of the recession) took 24 months for employment levels to reach pre-employment levels. 2001 took almost 36 months. All indicators even from the Fed and the Tres secretary indicate mid 2010 at the earliest for notable job recovery.

The fact is, the lawyers will have work and lots of it long before average americans really feel job recovery. its just the name of the game

No need to be vindictive when you are so wrong...

still heard nothing from Boies

Katten Chicago was a slaughter. Katten fucking sucks. I respect them even less because they were disingenuous about offer rates all summer.

To all 2Ls: Stay away from Katten.

Proskauer summers were already deferred for a year; how much worse could it be?

Skadden Palo Alto made offers before Labor Day.

Townsend and Townsend sucked. Tons of no offers, don't think a single person got one.

Here's a suggestion: let's have a thread on OCI. People wants to know!!

Hello ATL! This is my FIRST post. But not my last.

What about Katten and Sidely NY?

In Atlanta, I think Alston & Bird, Arnall Golden Gregory, and Smith, Gambrell, & Russell may not have made offers yet. I am a 2L, and had friends at each of those last summer. As of last week, the AGG SA was still waiting, and earlier this week the SGR associate was. Haven't heard from teh A&B one lately...

Who are all of these MB no-offers? Which offices? MB offer rates seemed high/normal.

There is always Craiglist as a back-up.
Young law students could always learn to "market" themselves to >50 older women.

What happened at Millbank, NY? How many summers were no-offered? What were they told?

And I have this canker soar that I keep poking with my tongue, but that's only making it worse!

This is crazy. Most of the decent firms made offers 1-2 weeks after the summer class left.

Wilmer made offers within a week.

What the hell is going on with these firms???!!!

Deferred for "up to" a year. What do I do with myself?

heard DLA's offer rate was 85% nationwide -- not bad in this climate although start date is Jan 2011 for the class of 2010

Another Mayer (Chi) no-offer. Offer rate is around 70%, from what I've been told.

95-
from all the talk of mayer brown being a ttt in decline, you'd think it'd be something more than chest-puffing. thanks. anyone else? -94

FUCK MAYER

113-

70% firmwide, or in Chi?

THERE SHOULD BE A CHART SHOWING THE PERCENTAGE OF EACH FIRM'S SUMMER CLASS THAT GOT OFFERED (OR NO-OFFERED).

I WOULD ALSO APPRECIATE A DIAGRAM INDICATING THE NATURE AND LOCATION OF THE CAPS-LOCK.

What was the rate like at Sidley DC?

What was the rate like at Sidley DC?

God this site is fucking worthless. Seriously, the news is in the comments? What's the follow-up? Quote a comment and say that you contacted HR of a firm mentioned, but that they declined to comment? Do you carry ANY CACHET WITH FIRMS WHATSOEVER? Elie couldn't get a scoop at DP if his flubby fingers were Baskin Robbins dunked in it.

God this site is fucking worthless. Seriously, the news is in the comments? What's the follow-up? Quote a comment and say that you contacted HR of a firm mentioned, but that they declined to comment? Do you carry ANY CACHET WITH FIRMS WHATSOEVER? Elie couldn't get a scoop at DP if his flubby fingers were knuckle deep in Baskin Robbins.

(last sentence sounds better)

116 -

In Chi. Why, what have you heard?

I'm a 2L and I haven't heard back from my summer firm and from the majority of my callbacks (the ones I have heard back from were letters). I respect the decison to wait for hiring for 2L summer, as much as it puts me on edge. I'd rather not have spent my summer in a firm that didn't think there was a solid chance they could hire me than get no-offered after 2L summer. My sympathies go out to all the 3Ls in that situation; it sucks, I'm sorry.

25,

Quite the contrary. Offers - at Mayer, at any rate - seem to have less to do with work product and more to do with one's ability to ingratiate oneself with the right people. No-offered summers learned this lesson the hard way.

Proskauer NYC did 90%

I had several friends who summered at Stroock and this is what I heard:

Stroock made offers, but did so on a Friday afternoon of a Jewish holiday. So some people missed the call and couldn't get a hold of anyone at 4 Pm and others got their no offers while heading out with their families to observe the holiday. Tough break for the Stroockies (former) out there...

At least on the plus side 92 - my Stroockie friends said it was more like 2/3rds (roughly a little higher than 66%).

With that being said, Stroock no-offered to some very hard working, intelligent individuals who worked their butts off. There seemed to be no true rhyme or reason to most of the no offers.

29 - maybe no offers could be a good thing, but from those who haven't had offers - it is very demoralizing - esepcially if they can't understand why they were no-offered (see above about Stroock)

However, in response to a few individual's posts, at least Stroock warned of the possibility of no-offers (and so did other firms). If you haven't applied for other jobs/clerkships and you got no-offered - in this economy, regardless of any warning, that was foolish. So, 29 might be right, maybe those who expected an offer, did not do a job search, and got no offer - well maybe they just might learn from their decisions and not feel entitled to offer.

80 - from everything I've seen and heard - very true - unless you are doing bankruptcy

Mayer Brown Chicago was murder for the HLSers. Think like 2 of the 8 got offers, with 2 or 3 opting for firms they summered at 1L year before hearing back from MB.

Lots of good folks in that summer class got no-offered and a few real bad ones got offers. Doesn't make sense. Around 70% is the number I heard as well.

128,

Such is life. Did a certain someone at MB Chi - let's call him "Lady Godiva" - get an offer?

Yup.

113/123 -

I haven't spoken to the entire summer class, but of those I have spoken to, I count 26 offers and 5 no-offers.

- 116

130,

Thanks.

Fuck! Godiva got an offer? There is no justice!

131 - heard from less but heard about more no-offers than that. good people too. decisions made no fucking sense.

134 -

No doubt there were great people not taken and asshats with no zero social or writing skill made it through somehow (see 129/130). I'm taking my offer, but their decision to take him at the expense of others makes me pretty unhappy about it.

"no zero"? The other guy must have been a neanderthal if YOU that's the bar.

"no zero"? The other guy must have been a neanderthal if that's the bar.

pot ... kettle?

Thanks, 136/137, for explaining situational irony!

How you like me now?

no one has reported anything about mofo. anyone know their offer rate?

0%

has kaye scholer NY made offers to their summers?

Bingham LA regional = 50% offers at best.

Bingham LA regional = 50% offers at best.

Cravath made offers to 97+% (standard) by the time each and every SA left the office.

118 = jesus

AT LAST THE MAYER BROWN BELL TOLLS, THUS RESCUING ITS SUMMERS FROM THE EXCRUCIATING LIMBO THAT HAD SO UNJUSTLY BEEN IMPOSED. AND FOR THOSE SOULS TO WHOM OFFERS WERE NOT EXTENDED DUE TO ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND THE FIRM'S CONTROL, THE NO-OFFER BELL TOLLS FOR THEE. BUT MAYER BROWN WILL UNDOUBTEDLY KEEP ITS WORD AND LATER EXTEND OFFERS TO THE SUMMERS WHOM WERE NOT EXCLUDED ONCE THE ECONOMY TURNS, SO ALL WILL END WELL FOR ALL.

ADVICE WILL BE WELCOMED ON A DIFFERENT TOPIC- ASSUMING, HYPOTHETICALLY, THAT ONE WERE NO-OFFERED BY ONE OFFICE OF THE FIRM THAT ONE HAS ALWAYS DREAMED TO WORK FOR, WOULD IT BE INAPPROPRIATE TO APPLY SEPARATELY TO A DIFFERENT OFFICE OF THE SAME FIRM, OR WOULD THE BETTER PROTOCOL BE TO INDICATE GEOGRAPHIC FLEXIBILITY TO THE OFFICE THAT DID NOT EXTEND THE OFFER AND ALLOW IT TO PROCESS THE REQUEST INTERNALLY?

"BUT MAYER BROWN WILL UNDOUBTEDLY KEEP ITS WORD AND LATER EXTEND OFFERS TO THE SUMMERS WHOM WERE NOT EXCLUDED ONCE THE ECONOMY TURNS, SO ALL WILL END WELL FOR ALL."

what the hell are ou talking about

Proskauer NYC made offers to 71 out of 75 summers, and yes, the deferral is still in place until Fall 2011.

Please explain how this summer became known as Lady Godiva and did not get no-offered just for that.

101 - you are wrong.

Shumaker, Loop & Kendrick (Toledo / Columbus / Charlotte / Tampa / Sarasota) is leaving summer associates hanging.

Uh, curious as to what's behind the lady godiva story.

98 - Define the slaughter for Katten Chicago.

Some people have pointed out that offers at Mayer are based on ingratiating youself with the right people, being attractive to the male partners, etc. This is not surprising. To a significant extent, progress at the firm for current associates hinges on many of the same factors -- at least if you end up working for certain awful partners.

What about start dates? Are most 2009 summers with offers deferred? How about Kirkland?

someone tell the lady godiva story!

Anyone know about MB NYC offer rate?

148 = drunk blogging. ha, man that is pretty pathetic.

Proskauer made over 90% offers, with a one-year deferral. Gotta give them credit for keeping their word when they said "most" summers would get offers. More than 90% is "most."

Got No from Katten.
From what I heard they are around 50%. Plus pushing start dates back.
What was I thinking, summering with them. Sometimes you have to admit you were stupid for ignoring all the warning signs.
Thankfully my 1L firm liked me and gave me offer. I truly feel for anyone no offered. Yes there were signs things would be bad, but THIS bad. Never saw it coming.

But what does this all mean for bankruptcy clerks?

Why is nobody chiming in on the Milbank Massacre? They no offered 70% of the NYC summer class and it's all but certain they will be revoking some of the offers of the January starters. Are they paying off ATL?

164, that really sucks. :(

*pours a sip on the concrete for all my no-offered homies*

does anyone know MB NYC offer rate?

166, hard to know. I heard 70% plus, but then someone I know there said he got a very cold offer. Maybe 70% actual but hoping for less than 50%

141 - MoFo firmwide was ~98%

Dear 164,

ATL can't comment on the Milbank Massacre, as you so poetically put it, because it now exists solely as a soapbox for Elie Mystal's political views and as a series of caption contests where readers provide the content.

So comment on it, 164 and 169. I love when people sit on their hands and then complain that nothing is being done.

Yes, 164 & 169, please reach out to Millbank and ask for comment on a Saturday. I'm sure they'll respond pronto.

so are there any firms looking to hire 3Ls for 2010 first year associates? i would appreciate any feedback

LOL@172. No -- the firms already have way too many bodies than they can handle. If work does pick up one day (unlikely), they will simply call up their deferred associates.

K & L Gates Chicago hasn't heard a peep regarding offers. Appears other offices have their offers in hand. Also, they are interviewing 3Ls.

fml

Has anyone heard anything from McDermott, or at least when they plan on informing the summers of the decisions?????

174, what is the offer rate of K&L's other offices?

How did K&L's west coast offices do?

Seyfarth? By office?

Sidley NY.

Tell me the offer rate.

Hey everyone! I know this is a stressful time for everyone, but let's somehow try and be positive. I'm a 3L with a no-offer from Mayer, what firms can I look at that are still in the market?

HELP PLEASE!!!

180, join the club! I was told by my law school that if I didn't get an offer from Mayer, big law was out of the picture. I just got the news yesterday, so haven't really started planning my job search yet, but I'll probably focus on smaller firms. Which region are you looking at? I don't want to sound negative, but I interviewed with a couple of small firms in NY during OCI and they pretty much treated me like I had the plague.

wow...that's a really pessimistic view coming from HLS.

181: I know this you don't want to be where I'm at, but I appreciate the company :) I'm looking in the NY/DC region - any suggestions outside of OCI?

Sorry, I know you have your own problems to worry about....but can you send me some of those small firm names that were doing OCIs? PLEASE!!

Question: what does a class of 1999 (non-partner) lawyer make these days at a top 20 NYC firm? Roughly $300,000?

I just found out that "Lady Godiva" got an offer from MB Chi, and I will probably still be in shock 6 months from now. I guess MB doesn't think too much of MWE...

I'm pretty sure 10th year associates make $0, particularly in this economy.

185 -

Relax. They were just duly impressed at all the fictitious girls he banged despite being in the office all day, every day, yet managing to churn out such poor quality work.

Can someone puh-lease share the story behind lady godiva?

187:

Well, that along with the cheap-ass Mens' Wearhouse suits he wore every fucking day.

What's the haps on the craps with Lady Godiva?

Do tell.

185: What does "I guess MB doesn't think too much of MWE..." mean?

I wonder if Godiva ever started washing his hands after shitting.

161 -

A 90% offer rate with blanket one-year deferrals is a 100% no-offer rate.

It being Proskauer, they've done the group a service.

191:

That was the "if AtL ever gets hold of this story, that kid is never getting an offer" event of the summer. Unfortunately, nobody was man enough to actually send it. In retrospect, that was a bad move.

-185

The Milbank trolling is getting pretty ridiculous. 70%? Really? Only eighteen people got offers? Look, it sucks for you. Plenty of your fellow summers and people on this site feel for you. But, for your own sake, go see somebody or direct that energy elsewhere. Your daily (false) comments are getting pathetic.

193 - If 161's post had been about Skadden or Weil, would you have made the same comments? Or do you just have a bug up your ass about Proskauer?

181 - The smaller firms treated you like you had the plague even before you knew that you had been no-offered by Mayer? Am I reading that correctly? That's somewhat weird. As long as you could say "my summer firm has not extended offers to any of its summer associates yet and I'm concerned about the firm's financial health," you should have been OK.

195 -- agreed. and i got no-offered by Milbank to boot. the no-offer rate was 40%, not 70%. their claim of 15% is laughable though.

well if lady godiva got an offer, tell the story now. No one will know who posted it. Do tell!!!!

well if lady godiva got an offer, tell the story now. No one will know who posted it. Do tell!!!!

So if Stroock's no offer rate is about 30-40%, are they really interviewing and hiring 3Ls? Maybe I can take my sorry Mayer no-offer and peddle it to SS&L?

198 - what did they tell you at the "exit interview"? Did they blame the economy? Performance?

Hate to break it to you all, but Mayer Brown is a shithole. Everyone knows that. For proof just look at the people who work there.

The best is how they seem to try to hire prestige that they really can't attract. Maybe if they focused on hiring people based on merit and not just a fancy school name even when in the bottom of the class they wouldn't be such a shit show. But that's my problem with most of the legal profession. A kid whose parents bought them an LSAT prep course and got into a better school is treated as though he is a god, while a working class kid ranked at the top of a third tier school who worked his way through night classes isn't even considered. I think the problem with the legal profession largely stems from a lack of acknowledgement of a strong work ethic trumping pedigree. But hey, that's my axe to grind and I'm sure many of you on here will mentally think "TTT"

And no, I was not no offered by Mayer . I would work at a smaller shop making less money than there. The people who work there are assholes. Lacking any sense of class and tact but acting as though they are supreme kings of the land.

Word of advice to those doing OCI. . . don't just base your job decision on vault rankings, etc. Look deeper. Look at the people who are interviewing you, how they treat you, how they treat each other, how they look (miserable, tired, happy, rude, etc).

I interviewed at Latham 2 years ago. I chose a midlaw firm instead. My career services office said I should take Latham because of how highly they are ranked, what prestige, etc. Newsflash, the career services people only wanted me to go there because then they could say they have more alumni, etc who went to high ranked firms. Not going there was the best decision I ever made in my life. My midlaw firm hasn't deferred or screwed over anyone yet. No layoffs, no salary reduction, no deferrals.

Really look around when you're interviewing. You're gonna spend a lot of time in that office. Prestige doesn't mean shit if you get laid off or are miserable.

Worrying about such things as "oooooh, can I lateral later to this firm if I start at this firm" is an idiotic way to look at things now. Just go where you feel comfortable and safe. Everything else will work itself out later on in life.

Those who received an offer from Proskauer -- how were you notified?

Lady Gadiva. How did he get an offer? We all assumed from the third week (MW&E incident) that he wouldn't. It was so obvious.

202 --- Didn't say shit at the exit interview. Called it performance based via a phone call, then sent us a letter three weeks later, just in case we didn't get the idea. Anybody who was in the summer class would know this was complete bullshit based on who got no-offered.

No class whatsoever. They could have called it economy-based and not made enemies for life. Some no-offers have already landed on their feet in comparable jobs.

SOMEONE SHARE THE LADY GODIVA/MW&E STORY!!! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

206 - what did they base the decision on then? School? Resume? Spill the beans.

208 - Until I find a comparable job, anything I say is sour grapes. So I'll have to let somebody else speculate.

204 they called thursday around 5 PM. Diff partners called.

The always classy Stroock called and no-offered me as I was in my way into temple for Rosh Hashanah. Really made for a happy new year. It was just wrong - at least wait until Monday. Besides, they didn't tell me why I got no-offered. Just "it was a competitive summer...sorry." I can't believe I chose them over a couple of other offers.

83 nailed it!!!!

203 -

All of the no-offers I know in the Chi office are T14 (with many at HLS), while Loyola, Kent, Valpo, and 'Nova kids got offers. Sure, its just anecdote vs. anecdote, but my impression of the Chi office (based on much more than just offer rates) is exactly opposite of your assessment.

To not tell the Godiva story makes all you no offered Mayer summer's look like pussies. Just sayin.

To not tell the Godiva story makes all you no offered Mayer summer's look like pussies. Just sayin.

Is it possible the firms no offered the people they thought would be able to land on their feet?

Kid brought in a bunch of very nice small boxes of Godiva chocolates for everyone on the recruiting committee on the last day. More interesting story is what made him think he was so screwed that he needed to kiss ass like that. That's the mwe part.

216 -

It may be nice to image a firm being that altruistic, but it's just not realistic. The firm's primary and overpowering interest is in talent and prestige.

K&L Chicago interviewed 3Ls at what schools?

213,

Most Harvard kiddies are asshats.

220 -

I don't believe that in the slightest about the HLS no-offers this summer, but it may be true in general.

203 = clueless windbag

The focus on prestige in law firms is ridiculous. I don't get it. Many of our greatest business men and politicians did not come from a prestigious background.

I don't understand it. Never will. Don't want to.

I also believe that the older kids (i.e. took time off from U grad to law school) always turn out to be the best workers.

Just speaking from my mind and experience.

217: So what's the MWE part? I'm guessing he bitched out a partner?

Do tell.

222 = 2L

I was also no-offered by Townsend, and every other summer I talked to didn't receive an offer either. It has to be well less than a 50% offer rate.

Come on 211, what's the big deal...there are plenty of jobs out there for those who can't cut it as summer associates...

MW&E = Mustache, woman, and eggs. Figure it out.

J/k, I have no clue.

I like to eat pizza

MB NY offers made no sense. A lot of the no-offers were from good schools and hardworkers, whereas medicore people from shithole schools like Fordham and ND got offers.

220,

The Harvard kiddies at MB were NOT asshats.

224 -

I'm not saying you're right, but I'm also not saying you're wrong.

Proskauer called its summers

What happened to these past summers at Winston NY? Is there any news about the offer rates?

Assuming you're not just bsing...
I know who you are 211.

schulte in the house

235 = creepy

To the people who got no-offered, did they tell you why? Or did you just get the "it was a competitive summer, hard decision, yada yada yada?"

I was deferred and couldn't get a pro-bono spot that didn't make me feel like I am compromising my values.

I fell back on my undergrad degree and landed an industry job - at less pay (120k), but no billable hours shit. Eventually (3-5 yrs), I can make it into the counsel's office.

I am still torn what to do. Any advice?
◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙

Ever notice that the no-offered people were not the mediocre asshats on ATL? hmmmm. Or produced good work? hmmmmm.

Listen, I was a summer. My work wasn't that great. I went to a shit school, I got an offer. A kid who went to a much better school didn't. Later, the associates I worked with said the word on the street was that his work was horrendous.

I had no clue. He always seemed to be working. I would have no clue whether my fellow summer's work was good or bad.

How the hell can you all comment on this. Maybe thier work product sucked? Maybe they didn't follow directions at all? Maybe you saw it and thought it was good but you have no fuckin clue what you are looking at.

I'm not saying they all are. But when people comment about how their fellow summer produced quality work I have to laugh. Admit it, you have no fucking clue. Hell, I have no clue to this day whether something I hand in is really what the person who assigned it to me wanted (i.e. memo on crap toast).

It's part of the life. There's no shame in that. Just live and learn.

I may not know good from bad, but I feel pretty safe in my assessments of genius and abject stupidity. I saw plenty of the latter from Godiva.

I wonder if law firms have started to possibly base hiring decisions on who will actually stick around at the firm and not be an economic drain for 3 years and then transfer as soon as the economy picks up?

Maybe decisions were based more on ties to the area, a concrete decision on practice area, etc? Than on school name? Any thoughts?

I know my firm tends to hires summer's from the NY/CT/NJ/PA region. Rarely from outside that area. Kids who go to schools out of the area always have family/ties with the NY region. Just curious if it occurs everywhere else too?

Can someone please take a second to explain to me why firms don't hire unpaid summer associates? I understand that in the good old days, they couldn't attract anyone of quality to their firm without a lucrative offer of compensation. But today, the supply of student-lawyers is much higher than the supply of summer associate positions. As a 2L, I've been told by almost ever interviewer I met that in years past I would likely have several offers by now, but because of the collapse of the market there just aren't enough jobs for people outside of the top 20 or so schools anymore. I'd be happy to work at a firm for free this summer to gain the experience, why won't firms consider bringing people on in that respect? It doesn't even have to be a big deal, they could give them the same title, just not $35k in salary for the summer.

245, a summer associate costs much more than the $35K salary. It's not worth the time and investment they would put into you.

244 - it's a collective action problem. Unless every firm does it (and Cravath never will) then no firm can do it without taking a huge recruiting hit.

196 -

A shit firm (like Proskauer) parroting the industry line is a distinction with difference, the difference being that they've stealth no-offered their class while the others may ultimately provide some employment.

* Curious, but I noticed the other day that the first time my upgraded MSWord flags 'Proskauer' it asks me if I intended 'Proslavery'. This is similar to a pre-2008 version of MSOutlook that used to ask if 'Obama' should be replaced with 'Osama'.

I've given the questions thoughtful consideration, and decided in each case that either alternative spelling is acceptable.

meant to address that to 243 above

-245

So the value add doesn't cover the relatively low administrative costs of supplying an unpaid intern with a desk and a computer? Don't many of these firms still have the resources from the boom times of 2-3 years ago? Hell, I'll just bring my own laptop. Isn't it cheaper for an unpaid intern to do doc review than an outsourced lawyer from India or something?

240 is credited. Some of it depends on luck of the draw too- a summer might get buttonholed by a very demanding and unforgiving partner, who may expect nothing less than perfection, and recommend a no-offer if that standard is not met.
Contrariwise, a summer might work with some fratty associates (and partners, for that matter) who will love him no matter what because he' a fun guy to grab a beer with.
So even aside from work product, there are other issues at play that can be sort of random.

248,

You don't just do doc review. You have to get the programs, be taught the programs, have someone review your work, have someone take the time to explain your work, etc.

Speaking from experience, my first doc review assignment was a large EE patent litigation case. I had to spend 2 weeks learning the case the law and the technology, also it takes a while to get into the swing of things for what you are and aren't actually looking for in a massive amount of technical documents, flagging, tagging, redacting, etc. Then as a summer I had about 2 weeks of half assing it since you don't put in nearly as many hours as the real associates.

After that, everything I did needed to be reviewed by someoene senior to me. I was clueless, I was not an attorney, and regardless someone is always reviewing the newbies work or someone elses work to double check that you don't let the smoking gun out in a billion dollar lawsuit because some intern fucked up.

Factor in rent, office space, associate time to review your work, staff, etc. You are just not worth it.

Even if they don't pay you, the firm loses money on you.

Firms obviously don't see the economy picking up anytime soon (i.e., 2-3 years) if they are mass no-offering the class of 2010. Wow we are all so fucked.

250-

How is it that the firm all of a sudden loses money on me when at any other point in the firm's history I would have been qualified for a job with them? In a way, that means firms lose money on all summers they hire. That can't be the case, because it is irrational. Do firms seriously invest 36k in a summer because they think he/she will stick around, suffer it out for 8 years (while continuing to invest 160-220k a year in that person) before making partner and then magically being of value to a company? I mean, firms can't be that unrealistic about the way things actually work. Or maybe they can, considering how this whole profession seems destined for the soup line.

252,

You seem very angry and bitter. A firm loses money on a summer. A firm loses money on first and second year associates. What makes you so different?

THey make money later on the associates, but not the beginning. You as a summer are an investment and a risk of losing money.

Don't shoot the messenger. It's the way it is. Deal with it. Besides, if you are working for free and your other summers aren't, do you really think you are the top pick for a full time job with them? Get real. The offer rates are low and will continue to be low next year. It sucks yes, get over it or take time off from law school and go back next year.

252 - there are fewer spots this year. You are not good enough to get one of those spots. This has nothing to do with firms paying summer salary.

254-

Maybe you could enlighten me then. I go to a top 40 school, finished in top 5% of my class, have 2.5 years of relevant work experience, on law review, have been published, etc. What more could I have done to make me good enough, short of going to t14?

255,

Maybe it's the way you present yourself in interviews? If you haven't had any interviews then Is your resume up to par? Are you really looking? Did you resume blast outside of OCI? Are you looking in other markets? Do you have a specific practice area? Do you really have 2.5 years of relevant work experience? REally? Unless you want to go into a specific field like patent or energy, I highly doubt you do. You may think you do, but you probably don't.

Gone to a T15?f

As an MB summer, some of us did know exactly what our fellow summers produced. Many times we were given memos written earlier in the summer in order to supplement our own research/motions. Based solely on this (extra-curricular idiocy aside), I am surprised by the hiring decisions. And no, I wasn't dinged there. And yes, I'm probably outing myself.

As for the HLS folks there, they were a very good group. The whole "entitled and lazy" tag may apply to t-14 kids in general, but I don't think it applies to these guys in particular.

257-

lol

You'd do better to get a summer gig with the government or a small firm then continue on this "I want a biglaw summer, I won't get paid" rant of yours.

If the dream died, move on and find a new one. There's nothing wrong with midlaw or government work. Biglaw is nothing but a soul crushing layoff machine anyways. Why kids are crying they cannot go there is beyond me.

Look, it's really simple. BIGLAW is going through a major transition, and we are being caught in the middle. In 10 years, the industry will probably be better off. But we just got fucked in terms of timing. It sucks, and we will likely never recover economically, but this is just the way it is.

No trophy wife for me...

Developed a better personality. Gone to a good law school. Been born 4 years earlier -- it's not necessarily fair.

Realistically, you get cut this year because you are not at the top of the heap. They are hiring only the very best candidates this year. It's tough on the ego, but you're going to have to deal with it.

260-

The debt burden law schools are foisting upon students makes it so they have to go there to ever hope to pay down their debts and get out of living in their parent's basement and stop driving the 1988 Toyota Camry they've had since high school.

203: The whole "daddy paid for LSAT prep courses" is stupid. It makes you seem bitter and doesn't add to your argument. Plenty of smart kids go to good law schools without having their parents pay for an LSAT prep course. Whether or not they make good lawyers is another story entirely.

258,

You are assuming you know what quality work looks like. Maybe what you thought was garbage was the assigning person's treasure.

How highly you think of your opinion and yourself.

263,

Many midlaw shops pay 6 figures without the prestige whoring. One can live off of that and pay off their loans. OR, make $65K starting in government with loan forgiveness. BIGLAW is not the only option.

265:

I know grammar, idiot. And the assigning attorneys seemed to agree with my assessment. Being a smarmy ass doesn't make you insightful.

-258

260

Government work used to be the safety net for borderline BigLaw candidates. Now, with the huge supply of law students out there, it is becoming almost as competitive as BigLaw itself. There really isn't anywhere for these students to turn these days. Unfortunately, it looks like they may need to take their J.D.'s and go back to the entry level assistant positions they left in the first place.

Use of the word "smarmy" outed 267.

I was with MB previous summer as a 1L and it was the same deal then - no defensible logic to why they did what they did. Just a crummy and not very well run place - I know it's tough in this economy, but if you have other options I'd take those before jumping into bed with MB

Almost certainly true.

-258 & 267

That there has not been a post on the carnage in Texas (I'm looking at you BB) is ridiculous. How this site has declined.

258 & 267 - you seem like a douche.

- the world

272, how was IP there this summer?

Hi Godiva!

266

There has been a lot of talk about "MidLaw" these days. Seems like a myth. I only say that because I have yet to find a reasonable way to search for MidLaw firms. Any suggestions?

272-
From what I can tell, BigTexLaw offer rates weren't really that much lower from a lot of the NYC and Chicago firms mentioned in this thread. And Texas offer rates are historically quite a bit lower anyway.

46: Has the mainstream media served its purpose, lately??

266,

You can search for best law firms within a practice area or best law firms within a region on sites (I think Vault does this but I am not sure as I am no longer in lawschool).

Also, AMlaw does provide a list of the top 200 law firms in the nation, look at 100-200 on that list. Otherwise, a lot of it is based on regional knowledge. Ask your career services office, see where alumni work, etc.

255 - you answered your own question...top 5% at a top 40 school impresses no one...

280 is a HARDCORE loser.

For those of you looking for the midlaw hiring binge, sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing. They are hurting and have been laying off just like the AMLAW 100. It's just they don't get the coverage of the larger firms and their numbers are smaller. There's a huge decrease in legal services from the recession, and MIDLAW has been hit as well. Sure a few clients have gravitated from BIGLAW to smaller firms, but not much more than any other time and not to make up for the recession.

266,

Also look on those listings that magazines put out of "the best law firms to work for" or "work-life balance" or "working mother" lists, etc. Often there are less known, smaller but still good firms listed on those lists as they outrank biglaw and usually there is a minimum employee criteria to be on those lists (i.e. you know it's not a 3 person shop).

Hope this helps. I did these when job searching. :)

282,

Why is it then that all the kids who summered at Midlaw in 2008 are starting in the fall of 2009 while those of us who summered at Biglaw are deferred?

Hell, it's worth a shot to the new 2Ls.

266,

1 more peice of advice. For midlaw too, look outside the immediate metropolitan region. Sure, they may not have midtown offices, but there is are midlaw firms in Jersey, Westchester, and Stamford, Ct.

You just gotta expand your search.

My Midlaw firm rescinded my offer. One reason Midlaw jobs are hard to find is because there is a similar number of (decent) midsize firms as there are big firms in a given market, but the Midlaw hires far fewer people. Particularly at the entry level. My summer class had three people, for example.

I also suspect that Midlaw firms will be particularly suspicious of Biglaw retreads/no-offers right now. Why hire an obvious flight risk? Even when times are good, they care more about fit and community ties than they care about school rank, and many firms have longstanding ties with particular schools.

But the real issue is that they aren't hiring either. These "consider midsized firms" posts are about as useful as telling people to apply for clerkships.

-- T25 '09, law review, unemployed

278 - Is the MSM even MAINSTREAM anymore? GB is a god.

"I also suspect that Midlaw firms will be particularly suspicious of Biglaw retreads/no-offers right now. Why hire an obvious flight risk? Even when times are good, they care more about fit and community ties than they care about school rank, and many firms have longstanding ties with particular schools."

True.

Golly, an astounding amount of debt and no offer...what will you do...how will you survive...what will you tell friends and family...how can you possibly explain your failure in a way they will appreciate...you can't...even worse, instead of a comfortable, enjoyable, and secure third year, you'll experience one filled with uncertainty and foreboding...every waking minute preoccupied with the stress of not knowing...unemployment will not rebound for months or even years...no stipend or job offer to rely on as you spend a casual couple of post-grad months tackling the bar...rather, you'll absorb the full cost of bar exam prep and passage, all while wondering if/when you will ever practice...and the specter of bar failure in such circumstances is almost too awful to contemplate...still, how not to think about it - constantly...all of this as many experienced, freshly terminated attorneys constantly join the talent pool competing for fewer and fewer openings...really makes you wonder doesn't it? Oh well, I'm sure things will eventually work out for most, but will that include you?

Sidley NY has to wait until October. Can't stand it!

289, die in a fire. You were never even in a position to be no-offered in the first place. Good luck with that.

?TF is going on here?

289 - It's people like you that give lawyers a bad name.

As for a stressful 3L year of not knowing - well, all I can say is this: I was in law school during the last recession. I was fortunate enough to receive a permanent offer from my firm after spending a summer with them, but several of my friends did not. They all had extremely stressful 3L years and almost all of them spent the entire year looking for a job. Eventually, all of them found their way. Fast-forward to five years later, and all of those same friends are happily employed, while I've been laid off and am frantically looking for a job.

Sometimes we're up, sometimes we're down. Keep that in mind as you push forward towards your long-term goals.

290 - I heard Sidley NY got offers last week.

185 checking in here...

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ASKING:

Here is but one Lady Godiva story; the infamous "MWE" incident:

One Thursday evening, we had an event at a venue of which we had rented out only a portion. There happened to be a number of people from McDermott Will & Emery at the bar, who were approached by the individual known as "Lady Godiva." Assuming that they were summer associates, Lady Godiva proceeded, unprompted, to rail on MWE, blathering like a drunken asskabob about how it was a terrible firm, that they laid people off, cut salaries, and that nobody was going to get offers. The MWE people were so steamed that they left the bar

Except...most of the people were actually associates. Word of his douchebaggery spread like wildfire. Within days, people at Mayer (summers as well) were getting calls from MWE people asking about Lady Godiva. Attorneys were asking about it at lunches, and recruiting committee found out about it as well. Even worse, the Einstein decided to bring the incident up in conversations with attorneys, seemingly BRAGGING about how he had put the MWE people in their place.

Nobody, and I mean *nobody*, in the summer class liked him.

His offer is a black mark on Mayer Brown.

295,

It's not true that no one in the summer class liked him! Godiva likes himself very much.

295: I prefer "asskabob" to "twatwaffle." Well played, sir.

295- apparently, SOMEBODY liked him, because he got an offer.

Thanks 295. Anyone else have any other Godiva stories?

There are plenty more out there.

298,

Hi Godiva!

If that's true, and associates knew about it... recruiting found out about it and still gave him an offer. Incredible.

They're essentially endless.

Several attorneys began referring to him as "conversation killer" for his ability to turn any conversation to himself or something uncomfortable/inappropriate in a matter of minutes.

@302,

It's absolutely true. Associates mentioned it at many lunches, including one on the recruiting committee. What a joke.

301- I'm not Godiva, nor am I affiliated with Oscar Mayer Wieners in any way. I'm just pointing out something that is worth noting. Kid did something right, apparently.
And for the record, I think the boxes of chocolates are much more douchey than badmouthing MWE. True, trash-talking MWE shows a certain lack of class. But I'm guessing that MB folks were secretly (or maybe not-so-secretly) proud of the fact that this dude was so enthusiastic about their firm, even to the point of putting down their competitor in public.

you pathetic bitches should bomb OCI back to the stoneage!
-DOJ secure

"But I'm guessing that MB folks were secretly (or maybe not-so-secretly) proud of the fact that this dude was so enthusiastic about their firm, even to the point of putting down their competitor in public."

That kind of firm pride--before actually working there--isn't cool or helpful--it's douchey. And putting down another firm in public is embarrassing. If he won points for this, MB really is a festering TTT in decline.

Godiva is probably Michigan's (nee Wayne State's) finest.

Maybe it's time to lay off Godiva. That he got an offer is really MB's fault (and their burden), not his.

Strange how Lady Godiva was railing against MWE for laying people off and cutting salaries when Mayer Brown has done the same things. In fact, Mayer has had 2-3 rounds of public layoffs, plus an additional 2-3 stealth rounds.

309,

Hiring him is MB's fault. Being him is his fault.

P.S. - Hi, Godiva!

309:

Perhaps it would have been more prudent not to hire him than lay him off...

Yo, I'm no fan of Godiva, but take 308 out of here. Uncalled for.

Agreed--no need to out the guy.

So, 246, when were you laid off at Proskauer? Twatwaffle.

"Nobody, and I mean *nobody*, in the summer class liked him."

Pro-tip for Mayer "Brownie" SAs: this summer wasn't a popularity contest (unless you were a hot blonde female, *hubba hubba*)

That MW&E story was majorly disappointing.

317,

Had it been a better story, it would have ended up on ATL. The kid DID walk around the office the next day bragging about how he naced some MWE people the night before, which shows some pretty awful judgment.

Where did Lady Godiva attend school?

264 bears repeating -- I've heard TTT students downplaying their performance on the LSAT by saying, "I didn't have the money for a course, and mommy and daddy didn't pay for one for me."

Oh, so you were ready to invest 130k into Roger Williams School of Law, but not the measly one thousand dollars on a prep course that would have gotten you into a recognizable school? Fucking idiots.

The bigger problem is that those courses don't help you get a good score. Maybe if you have absolutely no self-discipline, they're good for going from a 155 to a 162, but a group class with a lot of retards is about the worst way to get 170+.

I love the Lady Godiva story! Good stuff!!!!

319,

Michigan

Easy on the outing, assholes. The dude's a douche, but he doesn't deserve this. MB, however, is fair game.

Don't blame Michigan. He's Canadian.

holy shit, Michigan student here (not a MB summer) and I definitely know who "Godiva" is. can't believe i didn't hear about this. have a feeling this will be spreading like wildfire soon.

MB summer here. I am most upset about working w/ the haters posting in this thread, not Godiva. You don't like somebody, fine, but this is sad. Unfortunately par for the course with law students, though.

To be fair,

It's probably only one hater. hth.

328,

Good point.

-327

Godiva's a winner at life, because he got an offer. Deal, babies.

326 - what was the clinching clue?

a rare, non autoadmit (near) outing moment for ATL.

EVERYBODY DANCE NOW!

▲
▲ ▲

334-
what are all those triangles?

Bryan Cave NYC?

MB offer here. 325, etc. - just ridiculous. The MWE "incident," while in poor taste, was lame. That is why it never made on ATL previously and now does only in spite. I mean, guy makes fun of other firm, and that is supposed to be a juicy story? Many of us were talking about getting the HR ladies gifts but simply decided it was unnecessary. Yeah, he needs to tone it down with the bragging and develop some social acumen but apparently so do you. Congratulations, you have now publicly shamed and identified somebody via anonymous blogging.

77 - Kinda let in getting back to you, but I believe he was in Haynes and Boone's Dallas office.

If you have been no-offered after three months as a summer associate, your legal career is effectively over even before it began. And if you cannot get a summer position as an up and coming law student, your law school career is finished even before you had the opportunity to graduate. But even after this sort of shellacking, the collective sense of entitlement does not diminish. People still believe that a fabulous job is a birthright and their anger at not getting one stems from what they perceive to be promises made and broken.

Get the following matters straight:

a) NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING
b) IT IS YOU WHO HAS TO DELIVER VALUE

Such words are wasted on the brats who think that earning a quarter million dollars a year is their due. Many of you will never see a six figure paycheck and that would be most equitable. What do you do that contributes to the wellbeing of society anyways? Nothing. You are just a parasite aghast that the host you feed on has become consumed by your greed and there is nothing left to go around.

If they would but grow up, perhaps they would not feel the pain so keenly. But alas! I fear that their delusions run too deep.

Checked out Foonberg's "How to Start and Build a Law Practice" this week.

MB offer here. I definitely think I was offered because I did what I needed to do. I knew what practice group I wanted, did assignments in that group and completed well over 10 assignments and received good reviews on them.

I was surprised after hearing some of my fellow summers who received no offers but I'm sure there is some reason behind it (i.e. bad reviews, coming in late all the time, seeking a practice group that isn't hiring).

Despite the perception of HLS and other T14 schools, all of the summers from these schools are really down to earth and great people. Just because someone gets into HLS doesn't mean they are automatically complacent and expect things. Contrary to popular belief, these kids worked hard to do really well in undergrad and rock the LSAT. While some may have come from an affluent background which creates certain inherent advantages, that by no means applies to everyone and even those had to work to get this far.

If you want to blast someone for being an idiot and making millions then blast Paris Hilton, not HLS students.

Not cool outing the Godiva dude. And 341 is dead on.

335- triforce. cf zelda
334- you're doing it wrong, /b/

  ∆
∆ ∆

  ∆
∆  ∆

that's a little less lopsided.

"well over 10 assignments"

umm of course you should finish more than 10

folks, no big deal. guys at my high school used to badmouth other firms all the time and then overcompensate for their alcohol-induced blunders with boxed chocolates. the only difference is that they kissed ass with pierre marcolini, not goTTTiva.

boomshakalaka.

btw, why call dude *lady* godiva?

334 -- Don't you have a gamespot poll to go and rig? Seriously, GTFO.

347-
nah, but my off-plan GET was pretty baller, so i'll stay tfh, s'il vous plaît

239,

I have some advice.

Continue being a douchebag.

THERE IS NO NEED TO PANIC, MAYER BROWN WILL LOOK FAVORABLY ON APPLICATIONS FROM EVERYONE NO OFFERED DUE TO THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CLIMATE ONCE THE TIDE TURNS AND CONDITIONS IMPROVE, AND ONCE DEAL FLOWS PICK UP WILL LIKELY EVEN COLD CALL ITS NO-OFFERS TO INVITE THEM BACK INTO THE FAMILY. WHILE HAVING A SUMMER POSITION AT MAYER BROWN ON A RESUME WILL UNDOUBTEDLY PROCURE AN ASSOCIATE POSITION WITH THE FIRM OF ONE'S CHOOSING IT SEEMS AXIOMATIC THAT DEDICATION IS UNIVERSAL.

THERE IS NEED TO PANIC- EVEN IF I WRITE IN CAPITOL LETTERS ONLY, IT WILL NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT MAYER BROWN IS A SHIT-HOLE. IF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS IMPROVE, AND MAYER BROWN GETS ITS HEAD ABOVE WATER, IT WLL IGNORE THE NO-OFFERED DAMAGED GOODS FROM ITS SUMMER ROGRAM, AND FILL ITS RANKS WITH LATERAL HIRES

*** MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY ***

McDermott summer here. Can anyone shed light on McDermott's thoughts on hiring?

I spent this past summer with the firm, and got good reviews. The problem is that there has been radio silence; I simply have no idea where I stand with the firm or when I will know whether I should start applying for other positions. In other word, if the answer is "no offer" I want to know that now rather than in several months. Any McDermott insiders have some thoughts on when we will know.

Thanks.

341 - Thank you for giving me a laugh so early in the morning. After reading your post, if I had to guess, I would say that you're one of those people that went straight through from college to law school, has no real work experience, and now thinks that being focused on goals and doing "good work" guarantees that you are going to make it.

I've participated in summer programs for 5 years now and I couldn't believe some of the things I saw and the elements that go into making an offer. I saw one summer associate get a bad review from an attorney for not knowing a lot of the acronymns used in a niche area of the law, despite the fact that the summer associate hadn't ever taken a course or done a project in that area. I saw one summer associate get an assignment that would have been complicated for a mid-level to complete, then get a lukewarm review from a difficult partner. On the other side, I've seen a summer associate that was loved by a a senior partner, hated by everyone else, but got an offer because no one wanted to get on the wrong side of that partner by officially giving that SA a bad review (despite what many saw as mediocre work). One of my friends was called up by the recruiting committee head and severely criticized for giving a bad review to a summer associate from HYS, because they wanted to make sure everyone from that school got an offer. I don't have room to write every story here, but these kinds of things were repeated year after year. In a good economy, one lukewarm review doesn't matter much. In a bad economy, it does, even if the recruiting committee knows that the review isn't fair.

Lesson? Don't be so quick to assume that the firm had good reasons to refuse offers to certain people because of "bad reviews." And don't be so quick to assume you got an offer because your work was great and everyone liked you. And even if that was the case, I have also seen plenty of people who started out as great summer associates, and then declined rapidly once they started at the firm.

At the very least, I would think twice about insisting that your fellow summer associates must not have received offers for good reasons like "bad reviews" or "coming in late all of the time." If you don't know that is the case, then don't come on a public message board and suggest that. I would think twice about displaying that "you must have screwed up somewhere" attitude at school as well. There's a good chance that the student you alienate today will be in a position to help or hurt you 5 years from now.

353,

TITCR

Another Mayer Brown no-offered summer here, and I'll be the first to blame myself (shocking, eh?) for not getting an offer. A couple of weeks into the program I realized that I'm just not cut out for a corporate firm. I'm sure the summer committee realized that too. After all, they're not fools. There was nothing wrong with Mayer Brown though it did seem more frat houseish than other firms, but that might have just been me. It's just that I didn't like the assignments I got and I probably did not make an effort to meet as many people as I should have. My attitude probably cost me an offer, but since I didn't have a very happy summer, I'm not too depressed about it.

355= self-admitted loser

Hopefully, 341 will be deferred and ultimately have the offer revoked. Thus should be the fate of all such sanctimonious nitwits.

357 -- you used the word "hopefully" wrong. Check a style manual before posting on ATL.

Thanks,
Strunk & White.

I know that this post is geared toward MB, but can anyone shed a bit of light on another Chicago firm: McDermott Will & Emery?

MWE Chicago will no-offer 80% of this SA class. That's what I've heard from one of the partners.

I don't think MWE has made up its mind yet on the precise number of offers it will make - hence, the radio silence.

why so much hate for godiva? it sounds like he got drunk and talked some smack about another firm and that was pretty much it. am I missing something here?

@ 359 - really? worse than morgan lewis numbers? seems unimaginable...

Remind me, which round of the Douchiest Law School Contest did Michigan get out in again? (okay, well, they were up against UPennState, but)

Also, I don't see the big deal with constructively outing the guy. If you do something like that, you should totally be on notice that people are going to gossip about you. You might not expect that it'd get out this widely, but you've definitely done something that's not unlikely to get attention. You should know you're taking this risk every time you get drunk at a firm event.

That MW&E story sucked. Lady Godiva seems like a douche, but there are many douches at MB.

353 is right. Sometimes life just isn't fair. I've seen horrible summer's get offers based on one senior partner liking them at social events. Despite the fact that everyone they worked with thought they were incompetant or assholes.

And to all the HLS aren't douches comments, that is true, they all aren't douches. Maybe they all don't have silver spoons in their mouths. But in many places, just the pedigree of the name will get you an offer even if your work sucked. That is a problem many have with the way biglaw is run. You get a competitive advantage and that's great. But also, many others hate you for it. It kinds of balances itself out.

Just don't think you worked hard to get where you were, yada, yada, yada.

Summer is hard. Despite people saying it's a cake walk, the work is easy, etc. You really are on a 2 month interview where unlimited booze is involved and socializing with douches is a necessity. It amazes me how summer's fail to see this.

Jeez, I thought the Lady Godiva story was going to involve public nudity of some kind. Turns out to be all about badmouthing some TTT firm? What a letdown.

364,

If you think Godiva was a douche, fine. So do I. But to out him on a public blog that a large portion of the legal industry reads is even douchier.

Take the high road. Karma's a bitch.

Who's this black guy named Duane Morris? What's he want?

368,

He's Duane Wayne's cousin. He's looking for his flip up sunglasses.

The worst part of this no-offer situation this summer is that those people will now suddenly be trying to get jobs in public interest, government and smaller regional firms that other classmates have always wanted. And this being the legal field, those employers will ignore those who summered with similar organizations in favor of spoiled biglaw wannabees who will leave at the first opportunity to do so.

353 is dead on. 341 is a self-righteous jackass.

Everybody chillax, Nordberg is baking us all brownies.

None of this really matters. Those of you with offers and those of you who were no offered will all end up miserable in the end.

341 = HLS with offer from MB. Also a self-righteous jackass. Shouldn't be hard to figure out who that is.

I was like 341 once upon a time. I felt great after receiving my "offer" at the end of the summer. Everyone told me how excited they were about me joining the firm. 6 months later, I was no longer wanted/needed until January. And I don't expect I will be needed then either.

Don't worry, all, 341 will humble right up when he gets "the call" from the same partner who kissed his ass over the summer.

I like how every MB summer seems to have outed themselves on this board. Classy bunch.

376, I'd give you a dollar if you could name more than 1 poster that has outed him or herself. Everyone's been busy outing Godiva.

377 - smarmy, whose is a HLS who got an offer, who is a bitter, bitter angry no-offered who actually outed Godiva.

I don't want your damn dollar.

378,

In English, please.

Yeah, I'm horribly confused by 377.

379,

I'm not a jerk who will out somone on here. I'm just saying I know who at least 3 of you are. Classy.

I hope that 341's offer will be deferred and ultimately revoked. Thus should be the fate of all such sanctimonious nitwits.

"Thus should be the fate of all such sanctimonious nitwits."

/irony

I wish we could get the old XOXOHTH posters to come on here. This is tiresome.

for all the MB no offered kids bitching about how lady Godiva was a douche, 341 seems to be the biggest douche and he was offered too.

Maybe you're lucky you don't have to work with these people. Both sounds awful.

FWIW, I bet 341 is a girl.

FWIW, I bet 341 is a buzzkill and doesn't have many friends.

A girl from HLS is the same thing, dooder.

I love how this comment board has basically trashed all of the MB summers. So MB didn't notify them right away and the summers freak out on ATL and act all douchey. They notify them and the MB summers act even douchier. Well played MB summers, well played.

I think ATL should have a douchiest law firm contest. I bet MB would make it far if this is the caliber of people they recruit.

To be fair, MB rejected most of those posting. That said, you sound like an insufferable douche.

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THE CLASS AND CALIBER OF MAYER BROWN IS INDEED REFLECTED BY ITS SUMMER CLASS AND VICE VERSA. ANYONE WHO WAS NOT GIVEN AN OFFER WAS SIMPLY A VICTIM OF ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES, AS TO HAVE BEEN SELECTED AS A SUMMER IS IN ITSELF A MONUMENTAL ACHIEVEMENT OF WHICH EVERY ONE SHOULD BE ETERNALLY PROUD.

So, am I the only one that thinks the January deferred start date for 2009 grads is a big joke? Apparently, things are just as slow as last year, minus the huge layoffs...something must be brewing.

Michael Best and Friedrich hasn't given out any offers yet...

I got an offer (MB NY) but for a fall 2011 start. Fucked.

When did MB give out NY offers?

Proskauer NYC did 99%

397,

Thursday

394 -

We will not be starting in January.

When are Sidley Austin first years expected to start?

401 -

They are supposed to start in November. Some of them were strongly encouraged to take a full year deferral.

Firms with January deferrals need to fucking CALL US ALREADY AND TELL US WE AREN'T GOING TO START.

3L in fly-over country. My mid-size firm told us at the end of summer that we'd know about offers "before school starts." No word since.

I was no offered at Boudreaux, Thibodeaux and Hebert LLP because George Bush hates black people. And I'm not even black!

So many people have joined in the chorus that a no offer does imply anything about the person who has been rejected. Are you willing to spin this sort of self deceiving lies just to avoid facing the reality? A no offer does imply that you did not make the cut for one reason or another. All the major law firms have offered at least a proportion of their summer associates. Those who were not offered a position are basically the ones that the firm has decided that they do not want. After three months of working with you and people decide that you do not have what it takes, everyone will assume that you did not make it through your confirmation period and was thus summarily terminated with cause.

If you want to move on, stop lying to yourself.

It should read:

...the chorus that a no offer does NOT imply...

Dude, proofread your shtick. You suck at this. Even the second time around. After two minutes spent reading your crap, I'm already convinced you'd make a terrible attorney.

All of these MB no-offers were in the BOTTOM 15-25% of the summer class....sorry, you didn't make the cut. face it- you're not as smart as you think you are. REALITY CHECK.

408 - If you're at MB in the first place you're not as smart as you think you are. REALITY CHECK.

Everyone knew MB was a sinking ship. You had to have been an idiot to choose it over ANYTHING more stable, even a lower-ranked firm.

EVERYBODY DANCE NOW

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MB is going to implode as soon as REFCO gets heated up. The partners with books will lateral to other big firms or open their own shops. Sure, some of them will take associates or a few lucky staff with them, but truthfully I would not plan a career at this place. This coming from someone who worked at Altheimer and did an interview with its old managing partner who miraculously found a job at Mayer. And I'm sure will land at Jenner or Kirkland o MWE or open his own shop. I nearly passed out when I met him during a callback when I considered lateraling there years ago.

-attorney who was duped at Altheimer but luckily landed on her feet elsewhere (not Mayer thankfully).

Pillsbury SF made 75% offers weeks ago.

401 -- Sidley DC tried to get the first years who were supposed to start in November to start right after Labor Day if they wanted to / their schedule would permit.

Confirmed, up in Canada summers got hired, and articles from last year are starting, some of them early. All this means only one thing:

-Bay Street is Awesome!

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE SMOKING WITH, AND WHY YOU HAVE NOT YET FIGURED OUT THE NATURE AND LOCATION OF THE CAPS LOCK

please describe to me the essence of caps lock. aaaand begin.

ASK HIM

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Pillsbury is such a shitty firm.

Im an MB summer who got an offer.
Not all of us had a problem with "Lady Godiva". So he got drunk and said something he later regretted, who cares, everyone has done that once or twice. He was definitely cocky, but as we have seen, MB is a fratty firm that probably likes those type of people. Ive talked to some of the other summers, and from what I can tell, the people who have a problem with him are those who did not get offers. He certainly was not my best friend, but as a co-worker, he was just fine.

He didn't ever regret it. Stop trying to save your reputation, Godiva. And your observation is wrong.

MB summer who got an offer here,

Bragging to associates, summers, and summer deans doesn't strike me as later regretting. I didn't have a problem with the fratty acts and the guy generally, but that whole MWE thing was classless. That said, this has gone on too long. Sorry for perpetuating it.

why does everyone hate on Pillsbury?

425,

Because they make shitty dinner rolls.

This is addressed to the poster identified as "Deferred for Life."

I am beginning to feel some pity for you. Perhaps we should meet in private to discuss your plight.

This is addressed to the poster identified as "Deferred for Life."

I am beginning to feel some pity for you. Perhaps we should meet in private to discuss your plight.

What's up with the creepy/quasi-homosexual Partner Emertius? Does he think the movement of the "i" after the "t" will make it seem as if the venerable Partner Emeritus has jumped ship, so to speak?

pillsbury is a ttterrible firm. i'm sure it would take the no-offered MB summers.

Stop impersonating Partner Emeritus. It is in bad taste for the losers in the Darwinian struggle for economic survival to make fun of those who succeeded. To anyone who has not figured it out yet, ‘Emeritus’ is not spelt ‘Emerit[i]us’. Such stalking of a sad and lonely man is indeed creepy and disturbing. All Partner Emeritus ever did was to tell it like it is and you decided to give him hell. Shame on you!

ANY PERSON WHO TAKES THE INITIATIVE TO PROVIDE SUMPTUOUS LUXURY CHOCOLATES AT NOT CHARGE TO THOSE MAKING HIRING DECISIONS IS DEMONSTRATING THE TYPE OF CREATIVITY AND INGENUITY THAT WILL ALLOW MAYER BROWN TO THRIVE FOR DECADES TO COME, THIS IS SIMPLY AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE DARWINIAN CREAM RISING TO THE TOP, AND A DEMONSTRATION OF SHREWD TACTICAL DECISIONS THAT WILL GREATLY BENEFIT CLIENTS IN THE FUTURE. AND EXPRESSING A DEEP LOVE FOR ALL THINGS MAYER BROWN TO THE EXTENT THAT THE INHERENT INADEQUACIES OF ALL OTHER FIRMS ARE REVEALED CERTAINLY CANNOT BE CAUSE FOR COMPLAINTS, AND INDEED CONSTITUTES A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION TO MAYER BROWN'S ALREADY ROBUST ESPRIT DE CORP.

OH NO DIARRHEA ALL OVER THE CARPET WHY DID I FART NAKED

THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS

MB offer here. Definitely not just the no offered ones who are disappointed about Lady Godiva. In fact, the offered ones probably care more. We're going to have to work with the kid!

By the way, 263, been driving my 1988 Camry since new; long commute; 543,000 miles and no major repairs.
Now, as a staff lawyer, i do not have to be concerned about a car to wow clients. i will grant that.

Just wanted to say, if you have a chance at an 87-91 Camry, it will take you from A to B forever with the AC still working. Just do not buy a V6. Stay with the inline 4.

i have a boxster to putz around in; just do not want to wear it out on my commute.

By the way, in Biglaw, how much does one's car matter? Just curious; not trying to make this into CarTalk.

Best of luck to all of you in the employment field.

To all the MB summers -

1. Seriously, that Lady Godiva story sucked. You did yourselves no favors in the court of public opinion by telling it.

2.Stop worrying about Lady Godiva. Just stop it. It's almost comical that you all chose a career in biglaw and haven't even started it yet and are already bitching that one of your potential coworkers might be a douche.

3. It's a very long road ahead from now to partnership. Worry about that.

4. Stop identifying yourselves in ATL posts.

if you have objectively good credentials and got no-offered, it isn't too late to apply to clerkships. my judge in DC still hasn't hired.

MB offer here calling out to all other MB offers. HEY IDIOTS OUR OFFERS ARE FOR FALL 2011. THAT'S THE SAME THING AS A NO OFFER.

You're starting in the Fall of 2011? My offer said TBD.

any insight into when dickstein shapiro will give offers?

Do you think MB 3ls who take a clerkship will be ok?

there's seriously a law firm that's called dickstein? and there's actually someone who wants to work there so badly they're concerned about offers?

I was an MB(P) summer in 2001, and we gave the recruiting girls some chocolate and booze, mostly because: (a) they were cool to us and planned a lot of awesome events; (b) they don't really get paid that much money to do a lot of work, and we got paid a lot of money to do not that much work; and (c) we were friends with them and wanted to do something nice for them. I think that a group of us each spent about $30. Some of it may actually have been Godiva - there is (was?) a store near MBP's old office on LaSalle.

No one called me any names as a result of it, including any names related to nude horsewomen.

358:

You used the word "wrong" incorrectly.

--New Oxford Guide to Writing

I'm wondering where people are getting this stuff about a MB 70% offer rate?

I'm an associate at MB in NY, and that doesn't really seem to be in line with what I've seen. Granted, as a junior associate, I'm probably less in the know than summer associates are, but my sense is that offer rates were much lower than that in our office at least. Closer to 50% or less I'd guess. This is just from asking around with other juniors, but it seems like everyone has a story of a favorite summer who did good work and didn't get offered in the end.

My favorite summer, from a T10 school, for instance. She was polite, smart, did great work, and somehow didn't get an offer. She'll land on her feet I'm sure, but several others won't. I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty shaken by the offer rate that I seem to be sensing in this office.

Where are 70% offer rate estimates coming from? How were the 30% weeded out for that matter? It certainly wasn't on the basis of work quality it seems.

Instead of obsessing over the offer rates and playing the firms' game, why don't you idiots organize?

438,

Really??

446 you mean like organizing to jump off a bridge?

17-

I believe most of Haynes and Boone's offers have been made. But there is an office or 2 who hasn't made decisions yet.

It would be strange if you clerked there and haven't heard something (even if they haven't made decisions yet). That's not typically the way they roll.

Weil Gotshal Silicon Valley office has already no-offered half of its summer class (11 out of 22), including 5 from Harvard and 3 from Stanford. They are not done with their killings yet.

Now senior associates are hoarding work like crazy. The fact of the matter is there isn't enough work to go around.

Finally heard from Sidley Austin Chicago last week. Got a 5th Circuit clerkship, am ranked second in my law school class, got 12 strong, "above the class" evaluations at Sidley, but one really bad evaluation -- thus, no offer. Told that they worried about my time management skills because of the one bad evaluation. FML.

Wow, that sucks, 451.

450 - I can't believe they even had a class that big. It's not a huge office (~65? Less than 100, right?), so I would think even in a good economy they wouldn't have room for 22 people.

Will the madness never end.

452 - you are right, Weil SV was way oversubscribed. They had half a dozen returning 1Ls to start with, but still extended offers to many first-timers. It was crazy -18 summers in the patent lit group (Matt Powers) which is no more than 45 attorneys. The partners knew the class would be oversubscribed back in October 08, but brought aboard 10 kids from Harvard even that late in the game, only having to no-offer half of them now.

Still the less than 50% offer rate is surprisingly low, given that this class won't start (optionally) till JAN 2012 (mandatory deferral to JAN 2011). Current 2Ls, don't be fooled by Weil NY's 90% offer rate if you are considering Weil SV.

Why do people keep saying 2011 start date = effective no-offer? Sure it's not an offer to start in 2010, but it's an offer nonetheless.

450- What do you mean "they are not done with their killings yet"? Are you talking about associate layoffs, or are there still summers waiting on a decision?

MWE DC made no-offer calls today.

457 - any idea on stats?

K&L offer rates in CA were all sub 30%.

-No offered K&L SA

how many summers were in the mb chicago class?

Anyone hear more about McDermott offers, for better or worse??

Like 45-50 (depending on 3L clerks, etc.)

Did McDermott come out with offers/no-offers in all offices today?

No word from MWE today.

No word from MWE here in California.

@458 -

At least one : /

And I heard of at least one in NY today too

- 457

When is Sidely NY making offers to the 2009 summers? and when are the 2009 grads starting? I have a callback there next week...