Notes from the Breadline: We’re All in this Thing Together (Walking the Line Between Faith and Fear) (Part II)
Ed. note: Welcome to the latest installment of “Notes from the Breadline,” a column by a laid-off lawyer in New York. Prior columns are collected here. You can reach Roxana St. Thomas by email (at roxanastthomas@gmail.com), follow her on Twitter, or find her on Facebook.
Welcome back from the long weekend, dear readers. I hope that, after what has been a hard year for many of us, everybody had a good time, everybody let their hair down, and everybody saw the sunshine. And anything else you can think of.
As a preliminary matter, I thank you wholeheartedly for your diligent attention to last week’s Homework Assignment from the Breadline. You answered the call with incredibly thoughtful, honest, and poignant responses to our questions about your experiences, for which I am extremely grateful. It’s good to see your faces a bit more clearly.
Well, my friends: without further ado, let’s put this thing together.
First, we wanted to hear about the experience of life in the breadline as an “older” member of the workforce, whether from readers who had been there themselves or from those who had seen a parent struggle with unemployment. Your responses reflected the particular indignities of being laid off and looking for work at a certain age, and described the sting of discovering that years of acquired wisdom and competence are, suddenly, of little consequence to the skeptical gatekeeper reviewing your résumé.
One reader, whom we’ll call “Mike,” got the phone call from human resources last July, just after his 58th birthday. “We were friendly,” he wrote, “so the ritual kiss from Al Pacino was brief and honest.” Mike was asked to sign a non-disclosure/non-disparagement agreement and given five weeks of severance in a lump sum. Of that, he said, “the USA and NY took 40%.”
So what has Mike been up to since hitting the breadline?
After being “let go,” Mike
Hit the net for two hours a day looking for jobs. I must have applied for 500-600 had about 20 interviews and got one temp gig that lasted a week. The low point was a doc sorting temp job at Goldman Sachs where I would have had to commute to Jersey City for the princely sum of $23/hour with no OT. I arrive drenched with sweat having to go overland to the PATH from the Fulton stop on the 4/5 on the only hot day in July. Some dork half my age talks to me for 5 minutes (after waiting for half an hour) during which time I attempted to impress him with my ability and diligence. The next day, after a credit check which turned up a paid 1994 tax lien for $329.00, they “passed on my résumé.” The most humiliating part was that I had prostrated myself for an underpaid 2-3 month temp gig in an inconvenient location. Another was an interview with a “mid-law” firm doing commercial closings where I had to take a typing test because it was a fetish of the troll office manager.
Mike is still unemployed, but he and his wife have been able to manage on her salary, supplemented by the $430 a week he receives from unemployment. For now, Mike says, he is “a combination cook/housekeeper/gardener/handyman.” Although he would like to find another legal job, he does not sound hopeful.
Other readers echoed Mike’s resignation. “I’m 58 and was laid off for first time ever last January from a NYC law firm,” wrote one. “Never thought this would ever happen to me. Hah! Managing on unemployment and savings, but there isn’t much at all to interview for and nothing comparable to the hours and salary I had.”
Those of you who described your parents’ experiences in the breadline reminded me of a perspective which (as a function of my own circumstances and single existence) I don’t often take the time to consider: that of the children and families of people who are laid off. Although I am mindful of how relative our sense of deprivation necessarily is, I admit that some of your stories made me want to give all of us — myself included — a sharp slap on the back of the head for complaining about the loss of our six-figure jobs and the size of our severance packages.
For example, “Ken” told me about his father, who, in 1988, was laid off from his job in a garment factory in NYC’s Chinatown, where he had worked for several decades as a “presser” (the guy who operates the steam press). The work, says Ken, was hot, sweaty, and low-paying, but “the job allowed him to feed us and pay the mortgage on our little house in Queens ($303 a month). I never heard him complain about it.” At age 60, Ken’s father was “too old and proud to start over and work at the other jobs available to him (dishwasher, janitor),” and “too young and with too many dependents to retire.” After being laid off, he “spent his days sitting on the couch, reading the paper and watching television.” Ken wrote:
We struggled after my father lost his job. My parents’ combined income — never more than $30K, even at its peak — was halved. The timing could not have been worse. My oldest sister was just starting college, and my other sister and I were in the expensive junior high and high school years, where fitting in meant having different outfits and money for movies. We did not fit in.But the worst part of my father’s unemployment was the simple fact that he never went anywhere. When friends came over, the shame was almost unbearable — his mere presence seemed to signify that he was a failure, as though an essential characteristic of fatherhood is absence. When friends asked, I lied and told them that he was my grandfather. At night I prayed that the economy would improve and that life would return to normal.
My father sat on the couch for two years and began collecting social security when he was 62. He never worked again.
“PK” — herself the victim of a stealth layoff in late 2008 — described a similar experience. Her father, an engineer, was laid off in 1990, when she was 11 years old. The 9 months he spent looking for work was, she said, “a terrifying time for my family.” Fortunately, her father fared better than Ken’s dad; after a handful of unsuccessful interviews, he got a job “80 miles from our home for a pay cut and worked there for four years before getting a job back at his old company (complete with his old vacation accrual — apparently, engineers are treated more gracefully in layoffs than lawyers).”
The experience shaped PK’s own career ambitions. After reading about post-graduate salaries in U.S. News & World Report, she recalled that “seeing lawyers earn $80k per year seemed like a king’s ransom, and I thought I’d be able to help out my family if I became a lawyer. After working my butt off in high school, college, and then getting into my top law school, I never thought twice about whether I wanted to be a lawyer until being laid off. I guess it had been such a scary, poor time back in 1990, I thought that being rich was better than being happy… not ever realizing that the two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.”
For the second part of your homework assignment, we wanted to hear about what you are doing to fill your days in the breadline, especially if you are among the long-term unemployed (six months or more). Your answers were as varied — and as interesting — as you are, and their range confirmed that all of you are, as I suspected, above average.
Some of you have been incredibly productive, thereby shaming those of us (e.g., yours truly) who are currently staring at a heap of unsorted junk mail and a slightly threatening pile of dust that appears capable of coming to life and consuming one (or more) of the cats. Renaissance Breadliner Mike, for example, has “developed a mean Bolognese Sauce and a Cassoulet,” and, rumor has it, also “perfected the art of the roast chicken”. In a breadline version of “work/life balance,” Mike offsets his culinary “work product” by hitting the gym “5-6 times a week,” and as a result has shed 35 pounds and can “bench press 225 lb four times.” He has also landscaped the backyard; done plumbing, electrical, and carpentry work on his son’s new house; and “taken this opportunity to read poetry again, principally 20th Century American Imagists.”
Others wrote about their efforts to network, stay busy, and generate leads. Stef, for example, told me that, in an attempt to “jockey for substantive work,” she had “done two pro bono gigs, wrote a journal article on executive compensation and TARP, volunteered with Am Law 200 Restructuring Chairs, started a new blawg, enrolled at NYU in continuing education, [was] about to join the board of a non-profit art organization, loaded up on CLEs, lined up new Am Law practice leaders to review new subject papers, gone to MBA networking events,” and was “pretty much checking [her] horoscope every day and visiting tarot readers and psychics on a monthly basis. This is apart from the continuous stream of applications sent into ‘the blackhole,’ or the discovery work I clock to pay the bills.”
Whew! I hope you get a job soon, Stef. You need some time to relax — and you’re making the rest of us look bad.
For some, this time has afforded the opportunity to reflect and indulge. In doing so, many of you have stumbled upon revelations that may ultimately lead you in a different direction altogether. Kianga, a former VP and energy counsel to the commodities trading business who was laid off in 2008, wrote to me from a delightfully sunny region of the breadline. She told me that, as of a few days ago, she has “committed to blogging about an art work every weekday for a year,” and has recorded a 3-part lecture, entitled “The Instress of Art: A Lawyer’s Guide to a Better Life,” about “how to hear the voice of God and let it lead you to a better life through art.”
And PK, who interviewed for a handful of jobs at prestigious government agencies after applying to the FBI, found herself wondering whether, if particular openings “came through faster than the FBI, ‘would I rather do this?’ Because the answer was always an uncomfortable ‘no,’” she wrote, “I realized I didn’t want to be an attorney at all. This revelation allowed me tremendous clarity.”
Many of you were catching up on both simple pleasures and good works, like reading novels, playing chess, and volunteering in the (legal and non-legal) community. One reader — representing, no doubt, her silent compatriots — told me that she found herself “going to Target a lot and watching a lot of reality TV.” Sleep was also a popular pastime: “I spent the first two weeks of unemployment sleeping about 14 hrs a night,” wrote one friend. “The black bags that had been under my eyes since the third week of law school disappeared!” Echoing a sentiment expressed by many, another friend said, simply, “My home has never been so clean.” And, of course, for those of you with children, filling time “is not a problem,” although stay-at-home motherhood made at least one reader “wish I were back in my office churning out partnership agreements instead of cleaning up various bodily fluids.”
Finally, for the last part of your assignment, we wanted to hear about the best and worst parts of prolonged unemployment. Your responses — brave, contemplative, and, in many cases, incredibly poignant — confirmed that many of you are, indeed, walking the line between faith and fear. For what it’s worth, friends, it was also clear from your answers that we share the same worries, regrets, and moments of despair. In other words, we’re all in this thing together.
Not surprisingly, one of the worst parts of life in the breadline is, for many, its emotionally devastating consequences. “I’ve lost a huge chunk of my confidence,” wrote Leslie, a senior associate who has been out of work for 6 months. “I put on a happy face to outsiders, but inside, I wonder if I made the right choice to attend law school so many years ago. I remember how excited I was when I graduated — looking back, it seems silly, almost ridiculously naive of me.”
Our friend Mike described how “some mornings I awake futile and worthless. Bleak on a sunlit morning. No matter what you do, prolonged lack of work has your sense of self worth circling the drain. It has altered the dynamic of my marriage as I have become a dependent. I often despair of finding any sort of legal job and fear spending my last working years driving a limo or ringing up sales at Trader Joes.” Another reader, Ted, echoed Mike’s sentiments. “My complete impression of myself and the decisions I’ve made in my life have gone from good to bad. As if this singular event discounted every effort I have made up to now.”
A number of readers described the sadness of sensing (or fearing) that your career — the product of those efforts — was slipping through your fingers. The worst part of unemployment, wrote one, is “the very real thought of having to leave law to find meaningful work in another industry. Am not there yet, but I am aware of time issues surrounding me as a candidate … I went into law to solve problems: so I’ll see how effective I am at resolving this one.” Readers also talked about the isolation of unemployment, the dissatisfaction of working at sub-optimal interim jobs, and the guilt of being (or at least feeling) idle when, in the words of one reader, “I’m supposed to working and using my mind!”
Fear not, readers: as a member of the Seinfeld generation, I understand the importance of ending on a high note, of which there were many in your responses. Accordingly, I leave you with the thoughts of your fellow breadliners regarding some of the best parts of unemployment. “I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE being able to nap and eat when I want,” one reader wrote. “And, not having to do anything I really don’t want to is pretty sweet. I never knew how lazy I could be.” Kianga told me that she is “happy to have the freedom to do what I really want to do in life” — namely, to “look at art and encourage other people to look at art.” And a number of readers were grateful for gift of additional time with their children, the pleasures of a clean house, and the money saved on dry cleaning.
For others, being “let go” served to liberate them from a framework which, they realized, had stifled some of the values — and the things about themselves — that they treasured most. One reader, Elizabeth, told me that “the weirdest part of unemployment was that I discovered that I’m a person with independent thoughts and interests again. I didn’t live my life feeling like I had to fit into my male boss’s opinion of what a female lawyer looks like and I didn’t have to pretend to hold opinions I actually didn’t have … I started doing things again that I actually liked to do. I had time to actually see my friends again. I felt like ‘me’ again.”
Finally, several readers emphasized the importance of perspective, and remembering that this, too, will probably pass. “Unemployment is like a break-up,” wrote one. “You can’t not go through the emotional motions involved, but at some point you have to move on. A lot of young attorneys are not ready to move on yet, and a lot of older attorneys just don’t know how to move on.”
And, if all else fails, think of this advice, from our friend Mike: “As my late father said,” he told me, “you just have to outlive these suckers.”
______________________________________________________________________
Roxana St. Thomas is a laid-off lawyer living in New York. You can reach her by email (at roxanastthomas@gmail.com), follow her on Twitter, or find her on Facebook.




Comments
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Quick question: When will this series stop being terrible?
Foyst!
1 - Go f**k yourself.
This series is great. Best part of ATL.
Mystal has an eating disorder.
I love Roxana, but I also liked hearing from other people in this column.
Good work, Ms. St. Thomas.
Lat = Roxy=Gay
This was surprisingly readable and interesting.
Well done.
I agree with 7. I found it engaging and enjoyable.
What kind of an imbecile is "PK"? Good grief.
i don't know what's more depressing....working at a time when there is no job security, or working in a field where no one is happy in the jobs they have.
I don't want to sound like a d&*% but if you are 58 years old and haven't stashed enough away to just to leave the arena you mismanaged something. Also, if you are a 58 year old attorney and went from BigLaw to unemployment that's weird. Going solo should at least pull a couple Gs a month with that experience. Solo practitioners right out of school do it. Maybe that is belief BigLaw unemployed.
I think this is one of the best columns so far. Stef really does make me feel like I should be doing a lot more though! I can really relate to Mike as well - I have nightmares about never finding a good job again and doing contract document review for the rest of my life (and I don't mean not finding a job at a big firm again - personally, I would rather shoot myself in the head than go back to that life). Keeping perspective is really difficult in these times though.
6: I'm with you--at least to the extent that I'm now certain Roxy is a gay man (if not Lat). Let's look at some evidence:
- no woman would choose the names Roxana and Giovanna for her main characters.
- When Lat was Article III Groupie he posed as a female.
- The bizarre, contrived and repeated setting of Roxana and Lat in his office with fountains of coffee and Lat stroking his chin while telling Roxy what to write smack of male-on-male adoration, whether self-directed or otherwise.
On the other hand, she has 2 puking cats. What man would subject himself to that nightmare?
I firmly believe that Kash Hill is really David Lat.
1 - When you gain the ability to comprehend what you read.
Could we maybe get some stories of people who have found jobs (assuming such people exist)? This latest posting, while good, is pretty depressing.
11 - If you don't want to sound like a dick, then don't.
Unfortunately, you did, and so you are.
1 = Jealous Mystal.
10 - Neither. Being unemployed in a time of no jobs in a field you hate...that's depressing.
first NFTB installment that didn't make me want to punch roxana in the jaw
I agree with 6,13, and 14.
Also, which is the fat black asian one?
Dorks.
They look like a couple of dorks.
Cosign 11. What was he, a 58 year old associate?
This was a great post. Thanks.
I sent a story to Roxanna which while not directly quoted, was at least suggested therein. I know that like others, when i got laid off, especially with a certain number of years of experience, I took a big blow to my self confidence. When I got a new job, it was amazing how good it felt to be praised for my work again.
Mystal=ManBearPig
I'm serial.
11/23--
He someone without a book of business, which is why he was let go. That's what happens when you spend your time crossing your T's and dotting your I's instead of getting drunk at the country club and making it rain.
11- as a 58 year old laid off guy let me say you can't quit when you've still got a kid in college, your savings have taken a 33% hit as has your house (if you could sell it at all). You can't live on the interest /dividends as yields suck and you commit slow seppuku by invading capital. and social security and your spouse's pension are still four years away. Yeah, you are a d-bag.
14 - That's disturbing. Mostly because I think Kash is hot. And I don't want to think that I think Lat is hot.
Please make it stop. Can I pay her to stop writing this stuff?
@29 thinks Lat is hot therefore @29=gay
28, if you're not willing to dip into your capital for just four years to tide you over, let me get out my world's smallest violin.
21 = 6, 13, 14
@haters: a simple suggestion. Stop reading if you are bored. That is all. (Elie, you can turn off the "forces me to read until I am bored" ray now....) Seriously, folks, if you don't care for the writing, MOVE ON...it's a big Internet.
Manbearpig=Elie=33
34 - Yes, but they have such small minds.
From: David Lat
To: Roxana
cc: Elie
Re: Your Last Day
By this e-mail, I'm asking Elie to fire you later today. He'll help you pack, disconnect your computer, and will escort you outside the office.
Roxana: Although your writing has improved considerably, it still leaves much to be desired. Let's take your last column:
You write that you received "incredibly thoughtful, honest, and poignant responses to our questions about your experiences" as laid-off lawyers. So what are these responses?
1. Mike, 58, employed by a law firm, corporation, or what? You write nothing about his savings (if any), nothing about opening his own practice, nothing about what kind of law he was practicing. You're supposed to be a reporter asking questions, getting a story, not copying and pasting e-mails.
2. An unknown male or female, also 58, fired from a NYC firm. Again, no detail whatsoever.
3. Ken's father, a presser, who was fired in 1988. You devote 296 words to his story (counted automatically in MS Word), but it's utterly irrelevant.
4. PK, a female lawyer who was fired last year. Yet, the story focuses on her father, an engineer who was fired in 1990.
Take care and good luck.
37 - FAIL. When you shit-can someone you don't help them do squat. You get their keys, toss em an empty box if you feel generous.
The one thing you got right was the escort to the door. Yours is on its way.
Is Lat the female one?
Who wants a Fresca?
I didn't respond to this apparent request for 'layoff stories' last week. But I'm also not one of the self-absorbed, pity-me-please, unmotivated schmucks with damaged self-esteem that seem to have been eager to reply. Instead, I got right back on the horse, explored contacts, and started my own practice. Sorry, I can't empathize with the 'poor lost souls' who choose to hang out at Target or spend their days watching tv and reading books for fun. I decided to take control of my own destiny. I'm now doing work that's more interesting to me, making at least I was as a midlevel biglaw associate, and I have incredibly flexible hours with no unexpected surprises dumped on me by douchebag partners.
And yeah, I'm also continuing to fund the unemployment teat that these whiners are content to suckle on, with my earned income.
32- The plan is avoid living on Kraft Mac-Cheese when you are 80. Didn't they teach you about the value of money over time? 250K @5% compounded over 20 years is close to 700K. If the violin is so small use it a suppository.
Balls
37 - You seem to have a lot of time to waste.
Um, was this supposed to be from Roxana or Lat? The author clearly indicates Lat. After reading the first paragraph (the rest of the article I did not read because I'm not a complete fucktard) the writing is much clearer, cleaner, and less repulsive.
-Nice work Lat.
P.S. get rid of Roxana
Why does the byline say david lat? Is lat really Roxanna?
What a bunch of loser stories. Life's tough. Fall down, well get the fuck up and move on. Quit all the bitching and moaning, not to mention all the stupid networking of emotional bullshit.
David Lat = Roxy = Meatpacking District after sunset.
46 - Interesting. But shouldn't Lat have a "bi" line, not a byline?
great post. very well written. i would nominate this post for some sort of award if i knew about one -- like a "best summary of what life is like in the recession for legal professionals award."
Mike, 58, thinks $23/hour sucks but was willing to do it anyway for the money? What does he think his social security payment is gonna be?
48,
Oh, that is what they meant by meatpacking. Good to know.
the worst thing, regardless of whether you are employed or not, is wasting any amount of time on this worthless series
51-Social Security doesn't require taking the PATH to do doc review.
Lat likes to sniff MeatPATHs in the Summer.
42 = WIN
ROXANA IS LAT
FOR THE 500TH TIME
45 - After reading your post, it is quite evident that you are, in fact, very much a fucktard.
57 - Prove it (for the 501st time),
And stop shouting you douche.
58, am I, very much so, a, fucktard? Nice writing Nabakov.
-45
P.S. suck my hairy balls
60 - You are indeed.
P.S. - So your doctor said they might actually descend soon? I'll leave the scrotal slurping to your cubicle mate.
11/23: Kudos if this WAS a 58 year old associate - tells me he had a big set of balls to go back to law school to get a new career, perhaps only to have it yanked out from under him as happened to so many twenty- and thirty-somethings, with the added hardship of being right near retirement. And not everyone who works in biglaw has been stashing money away - it all depends how much debt you were carrying when you started and how big your obligations (including your family and their needs... oh right... the needs of other people...) are.
17, way to go. 100% spot on.
tl;dr
What do you think Mike was making as a 32nd year associate?
The byline says "Roxana" now.
After months of ragging on this terrible column, today a slew of commentors randomly wrote comments about how great the column is and how they support Roxy.
Knowing what I know about ATL commentors generally, I call BS on Roxy having her friends post to support her.
The ironically sad thing is that this column may well BE the best thing about ATL right now.
The Breadline can ruin your life if you stay in it too long. Check back in a year. Some will be better off but those still in The Line will be much worse off.
Any decent human beings who were involuntarily terminated from the practice of law should call their former employers with thanks for sparing them the daily exposure to self-important asshats like 41 who unfortunately represent a substantial percentage of this profession...all who believe they've got the world figured out and who have no charity for anyone else.
Enjoy the challenges of that next slip and fall, genius.
9 - Don't worry, everyone experiences jealousy sometimes. It's just that most don't hide behind out-dated Charlie Brown expressions like "good grief."
Roxie - you're a bum. You've been slumming it too long. Get a job darling.
11 here. I have nothing against Mike. Maybe I simply don't believe a 58 year old goes from making it rain to 400 bucks a month of unemployment. There must be some way to pull down a couple grand a month on your own with your experience. Like I said, there are dipsh% right out of law school that cobble together a decent living.
Good luck to you.
11 here. I have nothing against Mike. Maybe I simply don't believe a 58 year old goes from making it rain to 400 bucks a month of unemployment. There must be some way to pull down a couple grand a month on your own with your experience. Like I said, there are dipsh% right out of law school that cobble together a decent living.
Good luck to you.
well...this writing was better than the previous posts but pretty depressing...
Interesting -- I just watched a presentation on Fora.tv in which a person repeatedly used the phrase "Between hope and fear". Interesting.
your column is depressing. why not put a positive spin to things. the economy is picking up. people should start spending money. That will get us out of this jam.
Fear spreaders should be shot like the person yelling fire in a crowded stadium. Instead, yell out "extreme heat, lets go some place cooler".
Sheesh
Unemployment is going to hit 10 percent. - Debbie Downer
#11 and #37 are both stupid comments. I stopped reading after #37. 58 is too young to retire, and neither you nor Roxana knows what those jobs were. Roxana didn't include the jobs because she didn't have the info either.
The second 58-yr. old was me and Roxana quoted my comment to her earlier column. I didn't give her the details that #37 requires.
What makes you guys think Lat is gay?