Offer Day: Skadden Arps
Tuesday and Wednesday, offers went out to people who want to participate in Skadden’s summer program. We haven’t heard any solid numbers yet, but so far it appears that prospective summers are satisfied with the results.
No news is good news regarding Skadden. In August, Skadden announced that it would be cutting its summer hiring in half. This morning, Bloomberg News reminded everybody that Skadden will be trying to keep its summer numbers down:
The stark reality of the legal marketplace was illustrated by yesterday’s 2010 job offers by Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, the highest-grossing U.S. law firm. It projected a 50 percent cut in summer hiring, said Howard Ellin, the recruiting partner for Skadden. The firm hired 225 students this summer and plans to hire less than half that for summer 2010.
But just because Skadden plans to reduce hiring does not mean the firm intends to reduce its offer rate. If the firm planned this right — and based on the NALP forms it looks like it has — Skadden could have simply invited fewer people to be part of its 2010 summer program. Skadden could still give a robust offer rate to the summers that did commit to the firm.
Hopefully, everything will work out for prospective Skadden summers.
After the jump, Bloomberg has some interesting data on how this year’s fall recruiting is going at a couple of top law schools.
Firms can keep their offer rate high if they simply hire fewer summer associates. In all likelihood, that is what is happening on campuses this fall. Bloomberg reports:
The number of first-round interviews for second- and third- year Harvard Law School students fell 20 percent this year, Mark Weber, assistant dean for career services, wrote in an e-mail, adding that it’s too early to predict how many will get second interviews. At NYU, interviews plunged this school year compared with last, with callbacks for second interviews dropping “dramatically,” said Irene Dorzback, dean of career services.
A tipster sarcastically quipped:
[A]nother reprise of the same fall recruiting jam. I love how only Harvard and NYU students got shoutouts.
Seriously, if there is a law school in the nation that is experiencing an uptick in 2L and 3L interviews and callbacks, please let us know. Or let U.S. News know so your school can assume its rightful place in next year’s law school rankings.
If you can get a callback at Skadden this fall, you should probably take it.
Harvard Law Students Left Hanging as Firms Cut Offers [Bloomberg]
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Comments
First Weasel! While others are counting on Bloomberg's post.
2nd
First to say "it's"?? seriously, 3rd graders get that one right.
3rd
The better your grades in law school the worse your working conditions afterwards.
Better firm = worse hours.
5: good thing Skadden sucks then, huh.
Is Orrick's Jonathan Cole married?
5 - Of course those with great grades will have worse working conditions -- they'll actually have a job, unlike you.
If the firm planed this right
1. I saw your ruse to get all the "firsts" out of the way so you could be "first" coming *a mile* away. I wonder if these are the same tactics you use in your practice.
Deceptive but effective.
--Elie
Weren't the offers made to PROSPECTIVE summer associates, not this past summer's?
I wonder why Skadden could handle large classes + a downturn while Latham could not. Could it be because Latham mgt was too fucktarded to diversify? Is it because Latham is a shittier firm and when there was less work clients chose Skadden over Latham? Or is it because Latham is run by raging assholes who don't give a flying fuck about their baby lawyers?
They were both V10s. Why did Latham fuck everyone while Skadden did not? I'm looking for an honest answer.
Aside from a taste for Turducken and race-baiting, I think we have a lot in common.
Do the turducken comments hurt?
12- who cares? Get over it.
12
It's because you're selfish. STFU about Latham and quit whining! Other people are suffering much more than you whiners with your market leading severance. Maybe Latham shouldn't have paid you to sit around whining on ATL.
-Not at Latham
15, so basically you're conceding that you're a bitter TTT who never had v10 options, and that you lack the intellectual ability to determine why Latham failed while Skadden did not.
TTTs should be banned. They add nothing to this board, just like they add nothing to the profession.
I am friends with a 39th year associate at White and Williams.
This is such a confusing title and article. Skadden gave out offers to 2009 summers over a month ago. They gave out offers to NEXT year's summers today.
12 - it's Obamanomics. they screw over everyone to help the liberal lawyer oligarchy
Hamline recruiting is up 150% this year, thanks in no small part to Hamline JD/MBA option.
Why would anyone take an offer with Skadden? Didn't they defer class of 2010 summers already? Meaning...aren't there no spots for incoming class of 2011 summers.
This website continues to devote way too much attention to small-time and subpar law firms and law schools. This is a distraction to those of us "big boys" who have more important concerns. Sorry for the rant, but had to be said again.
Elie, you're an idiot. Don't you mean fewer invties to the 2010 summer program compared to 2009 (and not 2009 vs. 2008)? This year's hiring will be for NEXT summer.
Serious question. How do you pronounce Skadden? Is the second d silent?
The ship be sinking!
New reader and first-time poster here. I am looking for a website that reports news/gossip about all of the big firms and reputable law schools, but I have never heard of this firm. Is there another website that I should check out? Thanks.
21
Beats the hell out of taking an offer from a firm that eats its young. Wouldn't you rather go to a firm that mildly inconveniences people for a year than one that destroys careers without giving it a second thought? Remember, that ruined career could be your own and it ain't pretty.
For a glimpse into the life of a laid-off first year with double ivy credentials and a former v10, current v17 on his resume, check this out:
http://joblesslawyer.com/about/
The second "d" in "Skadden" isn't silent, but you pronounce it before the first "d" like the "r" in "Favre."
27 Its fine that Skadden is deferring the class of 2010. But then why are they hiring the class of 2011? That's dishonest to me. They clearly don't have space. The honest thing would be to forego hiring this year so that class of 2011 students with options can choose other firms where they have a legitimate chance at starting.
No, the second "d" is pronounced "TTT."
:}
29
They're making a judgment call about their hiring needs and the economy two years from now. They're cutting the size of their class. I think it's reasonable that they can take on a smaller class. I really don't think Skadden is going to pull a Latham. They're a well managed firm.
Imagine you were one of the dozens of first years laid off by Latham watching Latham continue to hire summer associates. Latham is simply run by raging assholes who destroy careers without blinking.
in the butt
Is Skadden a law firm with direct client contact, or is it an agency for contract attorneys who do document review for other law firms? I've never heard of them before, but there are so many agencies out there that I lose track. Anyway, I'm glad there are other types of employment available for law school grads at places like this, given the declining offer rates at big law.
21 - 2009 Summers (aka law school class of 2010) were told that they were deferred until sometime in 2010. They were not told that it was a full year deferral.
Elie - why penalize a firm that has been transparent (see, e.g., publicly announcing its intention to reduce the size of its future summer class) and has treated its current associates and 2009 summer associates extremely well (see, e.g., no associate layoffs, sidebar, 100% offer rates) with a poorly written article that insinuates that Skadden may change its policy on summer associate offer rates?
How my dicktate, 16?
What is this "summer associate" you all speak of? I used my family's aristocratic connections to secure a position at a peer firm. You plebians surely have odds ways of doing things.
Skadden is a great firm. Taking Latham over Skadden was a HUGE mistake.
-Lathamed first year
skadden said theyre trying to keep their offer rate at traditional levels, which was 97% acc. to her. so yes, this post is correct.
PSA to bitter commenters: Latham and Skadden are peer firms that pay the same salary. There is no distinction between the two except the former is more fun and laidback with hotter associates while the latter will work you to death.
40 - laid back or laid off?
This post is in regards to the Pittsburgh/fashion article:
The fact that advice for what females should wear took two full paragraphs to hash out is sufficient evidence to explain why male partners vastly outnumber women.
Also, K&L Gates employees need not worry about being mistaken for "corporate elites" as no one who works for K&L Gates is elite.
Elie I think your commentary is confusing the offer rate (for a summer associate job) with the offer rate (for a real job, after being a summer associate).
41 for the win!
40
No, it is not laid back. That's the old Latham. The layoffs have completely destroyed morale. Ask any surviving junior associate and they'll tell you how awful things that become there.
And let's not forget, when things went south, Skadden stood by its associates. Latham threw tons of first years and junior associates right into the fire to protect partner profits.
40, I agree with 45. Half the law students who believed your Latham PR way back when they were plausible in 2006 are now unemployed.
Skadden is making every effort to avoid destroying the careers of its first years and junior associates in spite of this bad economy, unlike some firms (Latham). They should be applauded for that.
Compared to other firms, Skadden has been incredibly open to its associates and summer associates about where they stand, and the firm should be commended for that. This year's summer class knew in May, on the first day of the summer program, that they were going to be deferred until "sometime in 2011." While it was a tough take at the time, many summer associates used that advanced knowledge to line up clerkships or other work during the deferral year. I'm sure not everyone feels the same way I do--and I suppose that it could all change in an instant--but, comparatively, Skadden has been a class act so far.
This article is one big fail. The offers were for next year's summer associates, not this years.
So I said to him, "Look buddy, your car was upside down when we got here. And as for your Grandma, she shouldn't have mouthed off like that."
(1) Elie, you'd do well to edit the post to distinguish between summer associate position offers and full time employment offers. You use the term "offer" in both contexts, causing unnecessary confusion.
(2) "If you can get a callback at Skadden this fall, you should probably take it." This is ridiculous Skadden trolling. If a candidate already has offers from superior (and in fact safer) firms, such as Davis Polk, Cravath, Irell, Williams & Connolly, Covington, or Munger, then why should the candidate accept just because Skadden extends them an offer?
49,
Exactly. And it's not like starting a year late fucks up anyone's life, like mass first year layoffs, LATHAM.
Dear law firms, if it's a choice between deferrals and mass first year layoffs, DEFER!!!!
For a glimpse into the life of a laid-off first year with double ivy credentials and a former v10, current v17 on his resume, check this out:
http://joblesslawyer.com/about/
40 - "There is no distinction between the two except the former is more fun and laidback with hotter associates while the latter will work you to death."
HAHA. You mean Skadden is the more fun place with hot associates? Ask any current Latham associates or the MANY former junior associates and they will tell you how many careers Latham murdered.
Peer firm? HA!
40 - "There is no distinction between the two except the former is more fun and laidback with hotter associates while the latter will work you to death."
HAHA. You mean Skadden is the more fun place with hot associates? Ask any current Latham associates or the MANY former junior associates and they will tell you how many careers Latham murdered.
Peer firm? HA!
Doesn't Skadden suck? Default for anyone from a decent law school?
56 - then why don't you get a job there?
I summered at another NYC firm that is "safer" than Skadden but I happen to think that all the posters claiming Skadden is easy to get an offer from are bitter from being rejected by Skadden during OCI.
57 - Skadden has seemingly weathered the economic crisis ok, but there is no denying that it used to be the least selective firm in the V10. Yes, even less selective than Latham or Weil. That's not bitterness; that's truth.
55 has a point. Latham has murdered a lot of careers. The partners have that rare, winning combination of incompetence and ruthlessness. The vast majority of Latham juniors, survivors and laid-offs, wish they'd gone to Skadden, Gibson, or anywhere else where they had offers.
The laid off people, especially the first years, are completely fucked. The survivors are all miserable and want to leave.
I'm still shocked that these fucktards laid off at Latham are still crying. Are you guys seriously too inept to get any kind of job? No one cares about you or your incessant whining here. Latham shit-canned a bunch of attorneys, a few more than some other firms, we get it. If I saw Dell today I'd shake his hand and congratulate him on recognizing a bunch of sniveling, useless, whining bitches and doing exactly what you should do with such a bitch: Kicking her to the curve.
40- what you wrote contradicts the last 900 things i have read about latham on this site
60- the herd has been thinned out- don't complain- take advantage of it
60 = bitter TTT who never had a shot at biglaw. you're pathetic.
62 has a point. No one who has worked in biglaw would think losing it as a first year isn't a big deal.
60's thinking is "i get by on 25k a year plus food stamps, why can't you?"
TTT. get off this board.
Latham has 27 offices. Skadden has 24. Skadden has never acquired another firm larger than 12 lawyers. Latham has done several larger acquisitions which have not integrated well. Latham has a network of myriad offices across California; Skadden has 2 -- LA and SF. QED.
For all the people claiming Skadden is a class act, I was wondering what Skadden is giving deferred associates? As far as I know they've been less than forthcoming about any stipend or anything else for being delayed a year. They have kept people in the dark as compared to peer firms that have actually paid stipends.
Elie, please create a separate blog for TTT toileteers. They aren't really relevant to this board.
I eat Skadden for breakfast. And right now, I'm very hungry.
Are you trying to make this some sort of mystery? If Skadden wants a smaller first year class, they will hire fewer summer associates. If they want fewer summer associates, they will give fewer summer associate offers.
65 - Regarding stipends, Skadden has told us consistently "we haven't decided yet, but when we do, you'll be the first to know." I think it's a sincere statement.
However, I don't see the firm rushing to a decision. If I'd been told I was receiving a fat stipend, I'd probably be content to sit on my ass for a year collecting paychecks. It would be pretty silly for the firm to create that incentive.
-Deferred Skadden 3L
Anyone who would clerk in NYC in 2010 is crazy. Look at the offer rates. Go out to flyover country where the big firms are still hiring. BigChi, BigTex, BigATL.
McDermott is not giving offers.
This article makes absolutely no sense. It completely confuses the concept of "offer rate", as other posters have pointed out. Skadden's NALP forms are irrelevant because they don't reflect this past summer or Skadden's fall interviewing - the data in NALP forms trail current events significantly. And OF COURSE Skadden reduced the number of people to whom it made offers for 2010 summer associate positions. Skadden has made it clear that was its plan - it wants half of the summer associates in 2010 that it had in 2009 and so it obviously needs to make fewer offers. The article also tells everyone to accept a callback from Skadden if they can get it. All the Skadden callbacks have already happened. That's why they were able to make all of their offers for summer 2010 earlier this week.
I was "waitlisted" by Skadden on Tuesday. Is this the case with many other people? I don't expect it to become an offer, but I'm curious how many are on said waitlist with me.
Either way, I think it's great that Skadden is being honest about their meticulously cautious approach to recruiting this year. Smart decisions make for good business.
Worse than the summer associate fiascos may be the fact that Skadden has moved associate reviews all the way up to late October. K&E is apparently not the only firm looking to root out a few associates.