Not naming your school because you're afraid that anonymous people on ATL are meanies = TTT. This person deserves nothing but our scorn.

Find rich spouse. Much better than your other options.

1 - I thought of this too. "So you're saying there's a chance." haha

4 - "More like one in a million..."

This is totally elitist, but I read Logjamin's query in the voice of a TTT student

Umm ... minoxidil works. Not as well as propecia and neither will return you to the way you were at 15. But they will improve things and they do slow down additional hair loss.

PE just told me that "a little cloak money never hurt no one."

The is the dumbest fucking advice ever. Elie is such a dipshit along with Marin. You blog for a living you fucking losers.

Yale 2L secure.

It's looooooooog it's looooooooog it's big it's heavy it's wood.

9 - racist

You lie!

Joe Wilson

This post is a little inaccurate. There were 1L SA jobs during the law boom years; there aren't any anymore, unless you're in SEO.

Count me as at least one person who did have a 1L summer associate job before economic doomsday. Yes, they were harder than hell to get, but they did exist.

Of course though, Marin is correct that NOW it would be easier to leave Elie in a room alone with a wedding cake and expect no casualties than to get a SA spot as a 1L.

This is especially true since the firms that tended to do more 1L recruiting were further down the Vault totem pole, and, well, we've seen what some of these firms are doing on the hiring and firing front.

My only advice, though obvious, would be just to try to find any sort of legal work to do this summer. Don't be picky. Can't afford to in this market.

If Mystal was a walrus he would have given birth to himself by now.

Shalomar

1L SA from a TTT?!?! Are you out of your fucking mind? I'm a 2L in the top 1/3 from a T14 and can't get a fucking callback.

I have some advice, drop out of law school. Corporate litigator in a big market from a TTT ITE? hahahahaha.

I have to agree that Minoxidil works. My friend was just about bald and then next time I saw him he had thin, but a respectable amount of hair. He was like a walking ad for the stuff.

This is totally stereotypical, but I read 9's comment in the voice of an anemic dweeb

Some real advice:

Carpet bomb the federal judges. Every one you can possibly send a resume/letter to. Yes, this is a lot of them. And yes, 95% of them will send you a prompt "fuck off, 1L." But there are quite a few, senior judges in particular, who like 1Ls. If you hit enough of those, you might have a shot.

Thought of another way, your success rate at cold-calling law firms is going to be something like 5% expressing any interest anyway. Try your luck at judges.

Marin and Elie are idiots. Look, in the good old days, lots of firms would hire between 2 and 5, 1L SAs. Probably 20 kids in my 1L class had one, mostly at the big firms in the city where we went to school. Why? I have no idea. Its a horrible idea for these firms because they pay for the full SA experience (salary, lunches, bar tabs, events, etc.), with only a fraction of the chance the student will return for the long-term. But they did it anyway. I lucked out and got one of these jobs, and got not only a fat paycheck but valuable insight into where I should interview for my 2L summer. All it cost me to apply was about $50 in stamps to paper 120 firms with my resume. Do this. Even if its a long-shot, the payoff is well worth the effort.

For the 99% of students who won't be so fortunate, a job with a Judge, a gov't agency, a non-profit, or as a research assistant for a prof, etc., should be your next move. You won't get as much dough, you won't get fancy lunches, but at least you'll have something on your resume to show you are taking this seriously (unlike the clowns who know so much about being a lawyer they write about it on a blog) and are worth the risk of hiring during your 2L summer.

I got a 1L summer job in 1980 as a legal intern with Legal Aid in the Bronx. You haven't lived until you have taken the train up to the Bronx and hung our with criminals in summer 1980. My boss was Rick. Rick was the last of the true liberals. He wore a green suit to court. He was a great guy, Rick.

Those were the days.

I don't know what it means exactly, but did Marin just offer people a chance to "two-way" her?

Where do I sign up?

I had a 1L SA position at a V40 firm in 1999. But those were the lush tech boom years, and I went to HLS.

9 FTW. Also, this e-mail for advice was completely made up by Marin and/or Elie. No 1L right now is thinking about an SA position, give me a break. They're thinking about WTF is going on in Civ Pro or obsessing about some douchebag Torts professor they think they love.

16, titcr.

10 - "Loooog, Looooog. It's better than bad. It's good!"

My honest advice is to find a judicial internship, and Marin is right that you should apply to courts of varied jurisdictions. You won't get paid that summer, but it demonstrates an interest in litigation and should provide a decent writing sample and references. Your best option is to do the internship in the geographic area in which you hope to later practice. It demonstrates a connection to the area and the judge's name is more likely to resonate with the litigators who interview you in the future.

Logjamin,
During economic armageddon, the only thing that T14 has left to feel good about itself is the fact that it is T14. Unfortunately academic prestige doesn't necessarily translate into economic prestige these days although obviously some people are okay. So you set yourself up to be the target of everyone's frustrations - or rather the people who thought they were "in" are actually "out" and this scares the shit out of them.

FIRST TO SAY FIRST!!!!

Late Night Shots people don't care about such things. You are all peons.

Don't listen to this fool. I landed a 1L summer associate job at possibly the world's bluest of blue chip firms.
Don't give up hope.
But also, don't think having a 1L firm job makes it easier for you to get a 2L firm job.

What Marin said about every 'free' 'freeish' 'public service' entity you can find.

Also, schools are probably panicking about the shittiest of shitty OCS results right now. Lobby hard for a research assistant job at yer school. Not the greatest, but may actually involve interesting work AND it is SOMETHING on a res.

Unless you can get a 1L SA job, which you should know by now is unlikely, have fun for your first summer. I'll let you in on a little secret.

NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU DO 1L SUMMER. Seriously. I had twelve OCI interviews and six call back interviews and nobody, NOBODY, asked me about my 1L summer.

If you're wondering, I did a study abroad program and had an amazing experience. I now work at a V100 firm.

I know several people who got 1L SA positions in my class last year, so it's not impossible. If you know a partner in the firm or have excellent grades or both that helps. This year will be quite a bit harder than previous years.

I worked last year for a bankruptcy judge. It was great work, I learned a ton. I'd recommend to start applying to judges relatively early 2nd semester or over the break.

Study abroad is a decent suggestion. Get some credits, something to talk about in an interview (if you are lucky to eventually get one down the road) and have a good time.

This is the best advice you will receive:

Find your favorite professor. Kiss his ass constantly. Go to office hours, etc. If he's a successful adjunct, even better. Then beg him to be his summer research assistant. If you're good, you can leverage this to be fulltime research assistant as a 2L. If you're not, it'll still look better on resume than jizz mopper or other nonlegal job.

Guys in my high school hired 1L SAs all the time. It was no big deal.

The ABA needs to get rid of at least 50 of these lower tier sh** schools. There is no demand in the current market for the graduates. Any talk of broadening one's horizon's etc. is just idiotic. Although I suppose one could bag groceries with $100K in debt.

To whoever wrote this e-mail:

Please send me the school you went to so I can make it unaccredited. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE ON A JOB SEARCH UNTIL NOVEMBER 1 OF YOUR 1L YEAR.

-The ABA

35 - Would that mopper job be at Rick's?

35 - Would that mopper job be at Rick's?

I went fishing for Marin once. All I caught was a flounder.

The Sheep Nailer

Is it racist that I read Marin's post in the voice of an Elf?

32 is an entitled moron. Nobody asked about his 1L summer because it was a useless waste of time. True, you should be able to get a 2L SA position without having had a 1L one, but if you DID have a 1L SA position, you bet your ass they'd ask about it later, and that it would make the 2L gig easier to land.

Former 1L SA who bailed on that firm to go elsewhere 2L year, just as #20 describes it.

Where are all the avatars?

Is it true that if Mystal was a walrus, he could eat his weight in chum?

Minoxidil does work

42 - yes

38- I was thinking the exact same thing. Has the "TTT" ever heard of NALP guidelines?

Jackie Treehorn presents: Logjammin'

"He fixes the cable?"

Don't forget 1L summer doesn't have to be about working in the US - some schools offer half-summer international law institutes in places like Hong Kong and Geneva, and you may be able to get a half-summer job at a firm in Asia (even if is offered by THE douchey school). If you come from smalltown america, it definitely helps to go into 2L interviews with international legal experience. Everyone that wanted a half-summer job in Asia from my school got one in 2008, but hey, we're douchey, so I hear, and have great LLM contacts. Anyhow, that's what I did, and I got a job at my first choice firm in NY starting Fall 2010.

There will be summer jobs for 1Ls, but they won't be coming to you in September! As you get closer to summer, there will be jobs., but they won't be "summer associate" positions! You will be a law clerk, doing discovery, and making $15 per hour, but you will be gaining experience and shaping what you want to practice later. If you don't get a paying gig, there are other ways to get experience: research assistant for a professor, working in a public interest organization, interning for school credit. As long as you do something legally related for your first summer, it doesn't matter if it was paid in a law firm or not.

Apply early and often if you want any worthwhile 1L summer gig. Get as many applications out as humanly possible on December 1 or whenever a given prospective employer will start looking at 1L applications -- and that absolutely includes the places where you'd be working for free. In this crappy economy, even the unpaid internships located in places other than bumfuck will be taken quickly.

With that said, most firms don't really care what you did during your 1L summer as long as you can say something intelligent about your experience during interviews. If you want a non-zero-percent chance of getting a firm job during your 2L summer and beyond, all you can really do for now is get stellar grades and pray that the economy improves. A lot.

Elie and Marin don't know what the fuck they are talking about. They should stick to the low-end shit they usually turn out. They can't even give usefull advice to a TTT 1L. How fucking pathetic.

Also, Marin has herpes on her anus. Just thought I would throw that one out there for mass consumption.

Marin's Ex

32: OCS interviewers asked about my unpaid 1L summer job constantly. Probably took up about half of each interview. Interviewers seemed really interested in what I did there and impressed that I got that (unpaid) job, and I ended up with double-digit callbacks from my lower T-14. Yes, this year. So your 1L job can definitely help, even it's unpaid.

Everyone knows that most firms hires 1L SA's via diversity programs. This way firms can take the students who will do poorly in law school (because they were admitted under AA programs) without seeing their grades (because grades don't come out until mid-spring). Firms get to meet their minority quota and not feel like they are being totally condescending.

Unless you are a minority, just give it up.

Elie,

You are a douchebag of epic proportions both literally and figuratively. Your blogging helped to streamline law firm news making partners think tanking associates and deceiving law students is now the norm. Thanks a lot you fat piece of shit.

I got a 1L SA job at a Vault 100 firm through OCI. I also met my wife online.

Sorry Marin, you're wrong on this one.

We just hired a few new associates. Are other firms not hiring?

Oh, and we hired some SAs also.

Logjamin -

You seem to understand the importance of grades, but you dont understand it enough. Grades arent everything, they're literally the ONLY thing. If you get a 3.9 and chop wood all summer, you will be better-positioned than if you get a 3.7 and have some good summer job. So the bad news is there are no summer jobs for 1L's, the good news is that it doesn't matter. Do nothing but study. Its only a year.

Not true. My phone's started ringing again for in house tax positions.

only certain SEO firms bring back their SEO interns without considering 1L grades

Unless you are a minority or hot female, you have no shot at 1L jobs with firms. Just focus on 2L recruiting and study hard.

Yes, that is why you call me, I am expert.

If you believe in the power of magic, it's all a fantasy.

All law schools tell 1L's that you cannot even ask about SA positions until after your first semester. Although NALP rules may seem pointless, most schools and firms strictly adhere to them in terms of 1L hiring. In fact, asking or inquiring about positions now as a 1L will simply get you a scolding as a 1L to concentrate on grades and that you cannot do anything at the moment for career searching anyways.

The question that " Already the career services dean is saying I should “broaden my horizons” and look at secondary markets. " seems to be complete bullshit or a school that completely disregards the NALP guidelines.

No dean from career services would even entertain 1L questions about summering within the first month of school. I call flame!

at HLS we all got 1L market jobs if we looked broadly enough

may have not been in first choice city but we all got them

Do you think Marin would go out with a laid-off Latham associate? Just askin'

67,

1. lie, you know it.

2. proves you're a douche.

Awesome job.

I'd start by researching general counsel at companies in industries you're interested in and call and send resumes, even if they don't have a formal program. That's how I got my 1L position - I worked in-house for a casino that created a position for me - and I even got paid well.

In this economy some companies are electing to keep more work in-house, so they might need the help.

I'd start by researching general counsel at companies in industries you're interested in and call and send resumes, even if they don't have a formal program. That's how I got my 1L position - I worked in-house for a casino that created a position for me - and I even got paid well.

In this economy some companies are electing to keep more work in-house, so they might need the help.

I drive by the Rennaissance Fair in Tuxedo on my way to apple picking. I wondered what sort of people go. Now I know. Internet legal gossip bloggers.

"the status and respect of being a corporate litigator living in a major city."

They did and maybe do exist. I was part of a class of 18 1LS in 2007. Of those 18, all got offers to come back for 2L summer. Of those, I believe 9 came back, all of whom got Associate offers. 4 of us have already started, because it's not slow everywhere.

My cousin got a 1L SA job. My friend Jeffrey's sister also: 1L SA ... I got a lot of 1L SA experience.

"that's my friend, she just came over to use the shower"

Volunteer for your local DA or public defender's office, especially if litigation is your thing. While volunteering be aggressive and demand real trial time; do motions, do direct exams, do cross exams, get out there and make people notice you. Make contacts.

Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

Your chances of getting a 1L SA position are significantly better than average if you have some work experience in an area that complements the firm's work. For example, if you have a few years working as an engineer under your belt, you may be able to get a SA position doing patent prosecution.

But if you are 23 and have gone straight through school, you are probably screwed because you have no useful skills.

Your chances of getting a 1L SA position are significantly better than average if you have some work experience in an area that complements the firm's work. For example, if you have a few years working as an engineer under your belt, you may be able to get a SA position doing patent prosecution.

But if you are 23 and have gone straight through school, you are probably screwed because you have no useful skills.

35 is correct, especially if you pick a professor whose work you find interesting, since you will have to make it sound interesting in interviews.

Seriously even if the economy wasn't what it was you should spend your first summer getting real experience. DA or public defender. Low income clinics. If you can do it let yourself get pampered as a 2L summer. They are much more likely to take you on with some experience under your belt.

I worked for a clinic my first summer. Did all nighters to do briefs I wouldn't get credit for. Hated every second of it. But I had some awesome war stories for my OCI interviews. Got a good position in a bad economy.

Dear Marin,

I saw your answer and nearly went over to punch but restrained myself because I don't want to be sued. Seriously, do you even read what you write in this column? Turn on your Brain for a hot minute and read this very carefully: YOU CAN'T GIVE ADVICE TO ANYONE. Not to a 1L. Not to a 3L. Not to some elves in Iceland. I have fired Elie when his blogging gig didn’t pan out. I can fire you, too. You. Can't. Give. Advice. To. Anyone. Is that clear? Crystal."

To improve your chances, have a technical background. If you are an EE, you are just about guaranteed to have a job at an IP firm or at a tech company.

I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK.

Gentlemen at the legal preparatory academy with which I was once affiliated, which is, in fact, the legal preparatory academy identified by poster #67 herein, did in fact seek and obtain temporary positions of legal-related employment upon the completion of the first annum of their juris doctorate studies, in proportions such that virtually any such gentleman who sought employment by an entity of statutory creation, typically a limited liability partnership, the purpose of which was to engage in the practice of law, were able to procure such a position for their own selves. This was, however, in excess of a decade ago, and indeed times have changed. Those just initiating studies at their legal preparatory academies are best advised to seek unpaid internships in their home cities, and otherwise to cast the net broadly. Teats on the formerly nurturing and munificent bosom of Biglaw will be in short supply this time around.

As many have noted, Marin is an idiot.

"as far as I know there never WERE1L SA jobs - even before economic Armageddon."

WRONG. 100%, flat-out incorrect.

Stay out of Malibu Lebowski

one word: Asia

Texas firms still hire 1Ls. And the bigtex firms all hired about 65% of their 2L SAs this summer. Not sure if you consider Houston or Dallas as "bumf*ck" but you can make a lot of $$$ here and have the title you seek. And if you're from someplace else, it might make you mildly interesting to the locals.

Actually, I have a legal job. I'm hiding it under my bed. And none of you suckers can have it. Mwahahahaha!

Marin is a dunce. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 white males on my journal who did 1L summer at V5s.

"I cut down trees
I wear high heels
Suspenders and a bra.
I wish I were a girlie
Just like my dear Papa."

whatever you do...WORK. Don't be a snob about what job you get. Just get a real legal job. Judicial externship is clearly the best option: federal or state-really doesn't matter. you will not get paid 1L summer. No one does except for some big firm douches.

I graduated in May from a TT, and I have to say, when are law students and future law students going to get the hint? The legal market is clogged and a mess.

I know people with exceptional resumes who graduated in '08, and they're still making less than the proverbial lumberjack. More than that, even the young grads who do have jobs are miserable because their firms realize they can pretty much do whatever they want to young associates because of the job market.

Law school is not a ticket to happyland. It's no longer even a ticket to job security. My guess is you can find something that doesn't not involve six-figure entrance fees and be happier and more financially secure for it.

No jobs. Die alone.

Drop out, Logjamin.

My law firm is actually planning on hiring more 1Ls than 2Ls for next summer (as was the case this summer). Like some other mid-size firms, my firm is taking the approach that it's better to hire fewer 1Ls and more 2Ls if you're not sure how many 2L offers you'll be able to extend at the end of the summer.

93,

Nice Monthy Python reference. Obscure but on point. Well done.

Federal Guy

93 You're a lumberjack and it's OK. Now I've got to go to the lavatreeeee!

My firm, Willkie Farr & Gallagher, usually hired a couple of 1Ls each summer. But, only African Americans from Yale or Harvard. Is WF&G "racist with a deep-seated hatred of white people/white culture?"

Be a research assistant. Don't limit yourself to (1) professors whose classes you've taken or (2) those who are advertising positions. I walked into the office of a prof whose writing focused on an interesting area, even though I hadn't taken her class yet, and asked her if she needed a research assistant. She hadn't thought about it yet, but yes, she decided she did. The job was interesting, low-key, and easy to sell on a resume. But the biggest benefit came the following year, when it turned out that her recommendation carried extra weight in getting me a clerkship -- because, as it happened, the judge who hired me knew the prof. (Remember, your profs went to the same schools, may have worked at some point in the same firms, and clerked for the same judges as many of the judges and partners who will someday look at your resume and recommendations. It's a small world out there.)

Marin 3:16

agree with 101.

research assistant is a pretty easy gig to get, it looks fine on your resume, gives you something to talk about in interviews, and you can typically do the work from home

I was a full-fledged summer associate this summer as a 1L. I won't tell you where, as you might cry. but it's true. mwahahhaha.

When someone tells you something is impossible, it's really A) highly unlikely, and/or B) something they weren't able to pull off.

I was a 1L summer associate at a vault top 50 firm, and so were 6-10 of my top 10% classmates at my non-T14 school (#15). Everything's bigger (and better) in Texas.