Did Latham lay off any first-years? I haven't been able to find anything out about that.

they're also hiring half as many summers as last year

Unless and until JAKE provides commentary, posts are deficient. Thankfully, this post has met this criteria.

Schulte has yet to make offers to 2009 SA's after lying to our face in May...so thanks Schulte for the vote of confidence in the future.

it does not actually say that they will be paying that amount in 2010. It just says what they paid this past summer. I think that's highly suspicious.

Vicky Hurst is the hottest female golfer on the tour.

Logic fail. The firm isn't "sticking to the pay scale." It responded to one question (what will you pay in 2010) by answering a different one (this is what we paid in 2009).

Um, they didn't commit to a $160k pay scale in the future, they just said what they paid in 2009. Learn the distinction between past and future tenses.

Too many non-peer firms are foolishly relying on the false "green shoots" that have been cited by Commissar Obama's politburo. Any law student considering non-peer firms based on a "projected optimism" might as well cash out their savings and head to Atlantic City. I believe the odds will be better in AC.

Who wants a Turkish Surprise?

Leroy Zimunda

Hopefully this is legit and not just a case of failing to completely update the FAQ site. It's possible that they changed the dates and nothing else....but whatever. I'll take this as some welcomed good news for now.

I just learned the meaning of "politburo."

Indiana 2L

1. Firms ALWAYS respond to the question of future summer pay by telling you what they paid the previous year. That is not news.

2. I think we need to stop over analyzing every single word of these memos and websites. Firms use language that allows them to be non-committal and to change plans without liability. Therefore, anything that they say publicly (positive or negative) has no real value for those hoping to be employed at some point in the future.

5, the reason for that is because they are planning to rescind your offer and replace you with a newer summer associate from a later class year.

14, I don't think people were criticizing the firm for answering the question the way it did. They're criticizing MysTTTal for reading something into it that wasn't there. I was, at least.

8

The firm isn't "committing" to an 11-week summer program; they can cut off as many weeks as they want to, at any point from now until the 2010 summer program is over.

They said the same thing last year and how many summers have received offers???????????

But Latham is ranked higher, so it must be a better place to work

18 - None so far

Chill everyone. Mystal is clearly being facetious. SRZ is hardly on stable ground. They haven't yet handed out a single offer to their Class of 2010...yet like every other slimy firm, they are misleading dumb law students (Class of 2011, that's you) into signing on for a one-way ticket to uncertainty, at best...financial ruin, at worst.

I suppose if Schulte Roth changed the salary or duration of their SA program, the SAs would have an air tight promissary estoppel case, right? Same for not making offers to all SAs! When you post something on the Internet, it is a binding contract. See Restatement Section 90. This is great news.

Despite its non-peer status (as my son Jake proudly announced), I am really happy for the folks at Schulte. I'll send them a fruitcake and hand-written stationary (albeit the second rate kind) as congratulations!

--Ellie

When is the NALP drop-dead date to accept OCI offers? Nov. 15? There will be a bloodbath shortly thereafter: no-offers to '09 summers and rescissions to '08 deferrees. It's charmingly quaint that firms still care about recruiting and image, but there you have it. Mark it.

Schulte as been v. profitable in the past and has strong hedge fund and bankruptcy groups. I wouldn't be surprised if they are in pretty good shape.

Maybe PE can explain why he can't set foot in Zürich either.

Why do these firms still care about recruiting - everyone knows when you don't offer summers, fire first years and rescind offers - but there is no where else for law students to go so they accept these offers anyway.

24, I think 11/15 applies to permanent offers. NALP doesn't set a hard date for 2L OCI, just the 45-day rule.

But let's not let that detract from your point that deferrals and revocations are going to start flooding in pretty soon. Agree completely.

Can any 2009 SA's tell the rest of us what Schulte has been telling you guys about their offer rate.

This post is addressed to Commenter No. 26:

Sir, where did you get your information that I cannot step foot in Zurich?

JaKe and I were there last weekend when we loaded the jet up with JaKe's lavacious friends and headed over.

This post is addressed to Commenter No. 26:

Sir, where did you get your information that I cannot step foot in Zurich?

JaKe and I were there last weekend when we loaded the jet up with JaKe's lavacious friends and headed over.

Right 27--I accepted at an office that just offered 50% of its 3Ls. What am I supposed to do, sit on that offer for a month and a half with my fingers crossed that I'll get an offer from somebody who offered 80%?

29 - Schulte said their would be room for everyone; four months later, we have heard nothing from the firm. What a waste of a summer.

The key word from the firm was: planning. That and $2 gets you a tall at Starbucks.

I haven't checked out this site much lately, but stories like this show how pathetic this site has become. Isn't there any real news? How about a story about firms that actually honored their offers (e,g., Paul Weiss, etc.)? You know, where new associates actually started working this month.

Where the hell does Q&A say it will be making full offers? Is it based on this?

Will you hire more summer associates than you expect to be able to make offers to?
We will hire the number of summer associates we want for our fall class starting in the fall of 2011.

It says we will hire "the number of summer associates we want..." So if they want 1 out of 10, then how is that full offers?

This site is getting dumber by the minute.

36, I think by "hire" they mean hire for the summer class.

As in, we will extend summer offers to the number of people we want to give permanent offers for Fall 2011.

Q&A says: "We will hire the number of summer associates we want for our fall class."

Elie thinks that means: "They will give 100% offers despite such vague language!"

Q&A says: "We paid 2009 summers $3,077/week."

Elie thinks that means: "They will pay $3,077/week for the indefinite future because that's what they paid in 2009 - my logic is infallible!"

Q&A says: "2010 summer program will be 11 weeks."

Elie thinks that means: "All summers will be there for 11 weeks and the firm would not possibly have any summer work a single day less, regardless of what happens over the next year, because of these unbinding statements - I'm a genius!"

I am so sick of everything emeritus.

39

My firm's summer program was 11 weeks total, but no summer worked more than 10 weeks. That's because there were two staggered start dates.

Will you hire more summer associates than you expect to be able to make offers to?
We will hire the number of summer associates we want for our fall class starting in the fall of 2011.

You all understand that the firm is responding vaguely to the question it posed to itself? While the firm wants you to think it is saying it will not take on more summer associates then there will be fall associate positions availble, the firm is really saying it will hire the # of summer associates out of its summer class that it WANTS for it's fall 2011 class. If there are 10 participants in the class, but the firm changes its projections and finds they only want 5 of the 10 for fall 2011, the firm can do so without rendering its above response as false.

Either way, it is great answer by the firm.

hr specifically said at my callback they didn't feel the 9 wk summer was as successful and were happy to be going back to 11.
i'd also say that the fact schulte will inevitably no-offer half of the class of 2010 in a couple weeks does not necessarily conflict w/ the title of the post. 2010 is going to be rough and i feel for no-offered and deferred legions graduating this spring. otoh 2011 will be all rainbows and sunshine.

LOL, as if this firm is even going to exist in 2011.

WOW. MAJOR FAIL. now, people always put this website down for posting worthless news, but this has to be one of the worst. A RESPONSE IN A F*CKIN RECRUITING QUESTIONNAIRE SHOULD HAVE SUMMERS OPTIMISTIC ABOUT SCHULTE? are you f*ckin kidding me? guess what other firms have said the same thing: yup, that's right, all of them.

ATL FAIL.

7 - I'm impressed that you can type since you're clearly blind.

43- get a clue.

Get over it folks - the market is going to force most firms to cut the number of associates and hire more contract lawyers or paralegals to do the commodity work that the first year's normally do. I see more engagement letters from clients telling me that they will not pay for work done by first years and they do not want them assigned to the client team.

Comment removed by moderator.

Advice to 2Ls considering Schulte. STAY AWAY. They told the 2009 summer associates the same thing last year and then two days before the summer program ended they told us that no one was leaving with an offer. More than 2 months later and still no one has heard anything about our offer status. Seriously go to a different firm. Schulte sucks and they will fuck you over if they feel like it, this bullshit FAQ aside.

50 - agreed. the whole summer everyone at the firm said we had nothing to worry about, and then the last week they tell us we shouldn't have expected to leave knowing our offer status. we haven't heard anthing now for 10 weeks. hey schulte, when are you planning to let us know about our offers?????????

51,

Either (a) after the summer 2010 class fills up, or (b) the same day ATL announces that four bigger firms have rescinded all of their deferred associates. But don't worry, it will be good news.

-- Captain Obvious

6 and 8 are correct. The post should be amended to reflect what Schulte actually said.

This firm is actually in very bad shape, and I don't think it was expecting things to get this rough. It's previously robust hedge fund group weathered a hell of a lot of economic ups and downs in previous years, but this recession has been a different story entirely. ATL only records the obvious layoffs, but they've had a s***load of stealth based layoffs over the past 20 months. Part of the problem is that they expanded the firm into DC, and then also in NY by taking over and remodeling an entire new floor . . . right before the market collapsed. That's a crapload of cash flying out the door just as the larger deals they (and every other NYC law firm) depended on vanished into the recession.

If you are a 2L, I strongly suggest looking somewhere else. Most of this place's work is heavily dependent on the hedge fund stuff, and now that this has all dried up, there isn't much of anything to go around. It'll be hard to get any kind of practical experience (or job security) if you have no work.

Ok 54 - so Schulte's PPP will only be 2.0 million this year....

55 = member of recruiting committee at schulTTTe (who will never see a dime of that $2MM PPP and will probably be out of a job by december).

mystal, can you just set the record straight on this. fill in the blank. this story is: (a) a brilliant piece of sarcasm; or (b) a horrible attempt at journalism. just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

Schulte is a master of the image war. Flash back to 10 weeks ago (the last time summer associates heard anything).

We got the biggest used car salesman meets politician speech for 30 minutes in which the partners said all of nothing...except that they were really excited about the upcoming recruiting season.

2 days later, ATL is publishing an article praising Schulte for being transparent? This site for some reason buys into the bullshit that SRZ feeds them.

This is a firm that knew for weeks (maybe months) that SA's would not be walking out the door w/ offers. Rather than telling the SA's this and giving them an opportunity to get on the job hunt early, they waited till the last damn week (after OCI registration closed at my school) all in the name of saving a little bit of face with Above the Law.

To sum: Schulte cares more about perception than people.

34 and 52 are winning this thread, just at the moment.

I went on a callback at Schulte. Seemed like nice folks.

54 - don't forget the two floors (3rd and 4th) they added on for more space in late 2007.

- one of the s***load of SRZ stealth layoffs

58 - 55 here. What are you, stupid? Of course they seemed like nice folks. Most firms (even NYC law firms, which are staffed with d-bags) try to pretend to be nice during callbacks. If any firm decided to fly you in to NYC for a callback, that means they are interested in you, so long as 1) the free market economy doesn't collapse or 2) you don't act like a malformed troll with intestinal problems and a drug addiction during your partner interviews.

55 - you're clearly an idiot. SRZ does not have equal partner compensation. Not all pigs earn the same amount of cash. They all compete with each other, which is a large part of the reason that the working environment at this firm (and others) is so horrific. In past years, 2 million was an adequate marker - although several partners made a hell of a lot more than that, and several made a hell of a lot less.

This year is different. A few partners (the founders and the superstar rainmakers who have hung around NYC and Wall Street since Madoff was in diapers) will probably make 2 mil or more. Everyone else will be struggling to meet their minimal partner commitment (ie, real estate, structured products, m&a, . . . and even some hedge fund folks, etc).

The cash is just not flowing in 2009, folks. The super firms like Skadden and Cravath will weather this easily. The minnows . . . like SRZ and others . . . not so much.

What is your summer associate salary?

In 2009 summer our summer associates were paid a weekly salary of $3,077. The salary is based on the first-year associate annual salary of $160,000.

In 2010 summer our summer associates will be paid in lunches appropriated from secretaries foolish enough to use the firm refrigerators.

"And at the firm is sticking to the $160K payscale"

it is irrefutable. ELIE = EPIC AND UNPARALLELED FAIL.

They ask and answer their own questions with answers that don't answer the questions. How do you conclude anything from that?

#57 - Did you really go through the whole summer thinking they were going to give you an offer? Sorry, but that seems horrifically naive. It's sucks that they waited so late in the game to officially tell you, but that's your own fault for missing your OCI deadline. If law school has taught you anything, it's the "sink or swim" mentality. It's harsh, but you ARE expendable and should act accordingly, or find another use for your J.D. Even if SRZ made offers with solid start dates, I wouldn't count on ANY firm sticking to anything at this point.

So now's the time to get out your applications and resumes and get out there in the trenches with all of us other 3L schmucks - because if SRZ no-offers you in the end, whining and crying about how unfair they are is NOT going to get you a job, even if you were screwed over in a bad economy with fewer job prospects than ever...

The unfortunate and indebted peons wasting away in law school today have limited options with euphemistic terms such as the "Bird" or "Fox" option. Firms would be better served saying the truth. In the case of law students, these kids have the options of dying from starvation or poisoning. A parched throat or a glass of hemlock anyone?

I have digressed. Law firms should seriously consider adopting my hybrid tough love model that will help stabilize our beloved profession. We need a storm that will purge us from the unwashed masses that are not cut out for this business but feel they are because some Mickey Mouse law school decided to give them a law degree. We need to use the economic tsunami that Commissar Obama keeps agitating to drive down starting salaries and explore hiring overseas counsel that will do the same work, with better attitude and quality, at the fraction of the American price (also consider the side benefits of: lowering costs as a result of no health benefits, no extra overhead, no extra rental outlays for office space, no more defending meritless discrimination/harrassment lawsuits, no more need to comply with Federal Family Leave Act overseas, no pension plans, etc.). And remember, stealth layoffs or layoffs on a rolling basis will keep the remaining rank and file in check, thereby, producing a better work morale. Hybrid tough love...it's about time.