You idiot. You wasted a "first"!

Second.

1--it's not a typo when you're stupid.

third

How are associates at WS doing now? Busy? Safe?

Plenty of firms froze staff salaries and failed to pay out bonuses, albeit in clandestine fashion

For the next post, let's do nothing but post "first" "second" "third" and see how high we can get the comments to go. Nothing responsive to the post. Just numbers.

4

sorry

3

I work at WSGR, now I understand why my secretary looked smug when associate salaries were announced as frozen some 8 months ago.

WSGR also just changed CEOs a few weeks ago, so this is likely part of the regime change.

ninth

12th

How you like me now?

Not this post, you TTTs. The next post.

Twelfth.

13

"Not this post, you TTTs." Haha--nice.

And you have, once again, miscounted.

The mean MBE score in Arizona was 146. It was 145 in Missouri. What does that mean for those of us who are still waiting?

-sleepless in Chicago

13,

Sorry for indicting you on miscounting twice. You only miscounted once.

My apologies.

Fifteenth.

Having been an associate and now being staff I think most staff in most firms assumed they were not getting raises or bonuses this year. I will say that staff probably relies on thier much smaller bonuses than do associates. Yes, associates have law school debt to pay off, you would be amazed at the debt staff has to pay off for the education to do thier job. There are a lot of JDs on the staff side of law firms who could not do thier jobs without a JD. The hours may be better, but often they still aren't great. Staff is not just legal assistants and secretaries.

WSGR's decision to freeze, instead of cutting salaries, disappoints me. I would expect more from a non-peer Italian-American firm. The appropriate measure under these circumstances would be to adopt my hybrid tough love model. Take the proverbial chainsaw, cut salaries and jobs to make the remaining rank and file appreciate what they have. While Commissar Obama wastes his time appearing on talk shows to cram down Obamacare down our throats, the economy continues to suffer. Management committees should seize the moment and adopt my hybrid tough love model. Many firms have already seen the upside of hybrid tough love (e.g., employees doing more with/for less, cutting wasteful expenditures such as health insurance, preservation of PPP despite Obama's abominable economy, etc.).

How are things for associates at WGSR?

New reader and first-time poster here. I am looking for a website that reports news/gossip on all of the big firms and reputable law schools, but I have never heard of this firm. Is there another website that I should check out? Thanks.

Shit!

-16

Seventeenth

I too would like to know how things are going for current associates at WSGR. Thank you.

My WiNi is frozen.

DELETE ELLIE WEASEL PLEASE!

This won't be popular out there, but laying off associates before freezing staff salary is probably a smarter business move... http://www.goodsharks.com

24--

You forgot to say Twenty-Fourth. Or, as Elie would say, Twentiforth.

Twenty-Fifth.

Doh!

Twenty-seventh.

twentyeif

27,

We need a point system. You should get a certain amount of points for each time you correctly guess your number. The trick of course is that as more people post it will be tougher to figure out. Come up with a good scheme and throw it out there in a comment. I want my team name to be the Bel-Air Hops.

Seven Hundred and Ninety Second!

-estimated based on how long it takes this site to register a comment.

Just remember, or the next post, let's do nothing but post "first" "second" "third" and see how high we can get the comments to go. Nothing responsive to the post. Just numbers.

Thirtyeth.

I currently work at WSGR. From my limited view, most practices appear to be quite busy (especially in Lit which I am told is busting at the seams from colleagues) and my one of many Corp group is picking up on the M&A side of the practice. I have not been privy to any conversations regarding consideration of more layoffs. Around the campuses, most people's disposition is that of comfort. I have also noticed around the hallways that there are plenty of law students interviewing for summer positions. In sum, I suppose things are not otherworldly, though they are not bad either.

Earth to PE: there has been an 18-month long global recession that started long before Obama took office and implemented his economic policies.

30

You're not even shittin. They should just put a chatbox on each page. I shouldn't be able to rub it out--twice--in the time it takes to post a damn comment.

I am generally in support of ElieWeasel. I feel that the picture is clever, and his/her posts are short enough to read, and still fairly entertaining.

Not as entertaining as looking for Elie's typos, but entertaining nonetheless.

All in all, much better than PE, or nervous T-10 1L now 2L, who has disappeared, or JakeEmeritus.

Rogue Associate is up for partner this year at Thompson Hine.

Jake, dont' listen to 35--you're loved here.

Where did all the funny commenters go? Is guessing what number you are really the best you can do?

WSGR - #1 in USA?

I used to be an associate there - that place is void of quality human interaction, boring, and is generally just a sucky place to have to spend every day. Then again, I have probably just described all of Biglaw.

33 -

You Lie!

The recession began January 20, 2009 at noon eastern standard time. The economy was humming along perfectly until then.

38...

Where's your clever little quip?

Are we here to entertain you? Are you the audience and the rest of us the hired help? You're the Queen and we're your Shakespeare? You're the stay-at-home mom, and we're your soap opera? You're the dog, and we're your balls?

40 - what do u do now?

First!

Where is RA? I miss him around here...

17,

I'm inclined to agree. While staff at most firms probably do get raises each year, they don't usually work within the same lockstep "up or out" framework that associates in many biglaw firms do.

Having a very experienced support staff is valuable to a firm and may well be worth paying salaries based on length of tenure. But the salary differential is likely so much smaller it's not quite the same as a firm that has a lockstep plan suddenly abandoning it.

37--I like JakeEmeritus and Partner Emeritus's schtick, for the most part, but isn't their presence here ironic? They go on and on about how they are preeminent and we are not, yet here they are on the same board as we are, not working on preeminent matters, just like we aren't. It's kind of like the guy riding Greyhound who scoffs at the status of his fellow passengers.

Forty-Seventh!

40: Where are you now? I'm in biglaw and feel the same way, so maybe it's just the industry in general. Hope I can get out soon ...

48...

You'll be out very, very soon. Don't you worry about that.

I would have love to have gotten a Memo like that rather than a packet with my walking papers in it after 22 years of service to one firm.

The ship be sinking...

42 - did you mean to address your comment to 39?

This comment is addressed to post no. 33.

Besides appearing on Conan, David Letterman, having dinner with Jay-Z and Beyonce (while most Americans grapple with the economic tsunami), what has Commissar Obama done to remedy the dour economy that you claim he did not cause? Cash for clunkers? The Stimulus package which gave some shovel jobs for a few months to some disenfranchised union workers? Please enlighten me on how the Commissar has manufactured the green shoots?

Yo, whiny six-figure income earning attorneys: Staff and secretaries don't make nearly enough as it is, and certainly don't earn anything near what an attorney makes. And not one secretary is getting a six-figure income. So this happiness y'all are exhibiting here about low-income earning staff members getting stiffed is as disgusting as most attorneys behavior on a good day. Enjoy yourselves now, because after getting no raise and no bonus there won't be a secretary in town willing to put up with your crap, your BS, your poor work habits, and your lousy personalities. Enjoy!

43, 48 - I'm at a smaller firm - did my requisite Biglaw time and got out. Much happier.

55: Still in the bay area (or where you ever)? I'd like to get out there. How are the employment prospects right now?

- 43

54= bored associate pretending to post as a secretary to generate a response

57 = Unqualified associate with no billable hours killing time while collecting a huge paycheck -- soon to be unemployed. Pity.

47(EW) seems to have put PE and JE in their place and left them speechless, riding this Greyhound of a Blog.

my secretary is actually angry that she doesn't expect to get a bonus and that she didn't get a salary raise in 2009. she works for one associate and a retired partner and has alluded that she makes upwards of 60k after 25 years. she is relatively worthless. but most of the assistants in this place are.

56, still in the bay area - haven't paid much attention to the employment situation for attorneys here, but I can't imagine they're any worse than anywhere else. Good luck.

And now for something completely different -- Justice Sotomayor to pitch in the Bronx Saturday:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/09/22/sotomayor.yankees.ap/index.html

I've wondered for some time now whether The Wise Latina is a "pitcher" or a "catcher." Now we know. Thanks 62.

PE, 33 here. I didn't vote for Obama, and I'm sure you didn't either. I never said that I agree with his economic policies or what he has done in response to the recession. What I take issue with is your baseless criticism that he caused the economic crisis. If you think he or his economic policies started the recession, you've been listening to the Michael Savage show too much. In any event, your posts are a lot more entertaining and interesting when on point, as opposed to when you veer off on some ad hominem attack on Obamanomics regardless of the posted subject matter.

Wow, 60. Your secretary makes "upwards of 60K after 25 years," which means that she's worked for the firm for almost your entire life. Biglaw first-years make 100K more after devoting zero years to the firm, yet you feel your assistant is "worthless" and overpaid. She probably wouldn't have lasted 25 years if she were as worthless as you suggest. Try getting some perspective, dick.

58= busted by 57 for his/her lame post at 54 and now bitter as heck.

60 - tell that secretary that her days are numbered. I worked for 2 partners and one retired partner who was still active, for 25 years and WAS busy all the time and I was booted. Show her this post.

65, wrong, 60 said "relatively worthless." Big difference.

Okay, 68. I'll bite. So what's the difference between being "worthless" and "relatively worthless"?

~ 65.

My paltry 5-figure student debt is "relatively worthless" in comparison to the national deficit, so throw me a bone, Congress!

The sink be shipping

33/64: THANK YOU! I am growing fatigued reading PE's pronouncements regarding the present Administration. As I have stated before, either he is a troll or is truly part of the "Savage Nation." If the former, he has ceased to provide entertainment value for some time; if the latter, he's simply batshit crazy. Given the anonymity of this forum, it is impossible to determine with any certainty that PE is or is not a partner at a "pre-eminent peer law firm." Nonetheless, I'm asking the management here to just ban the little shit; if I want to hear conspiracy theories, I'll tune in Glen Beck or Rush (I Am a Big Fat Idiot) Limbaugh. It's just not funny any more...

EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This comment is addressed to post nos. 64 and 72.

Did Commissar Obama cause the current recession? No, and I never claimed he did. The culprit of the recession would be the democratic controlled Congress that had been in power since 2006. Barney Frank loosened restrictions on qualifying for FHA mortgages so that illegal aliens and the poor could achieve "the American Dream." Banks were forced to lower lending criteria as a result of democratic legislation and that eventually led to the burst of the housing bubble, which is a large component of our current recession. In my opinion, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Commissar Obama may find it humorous to crack jokes with David Letterman while Americans suffer. Personally, I find it opprobrious that we have a Commissar that spews propaganda about redistributing wealth as a means to solving the recession while talking about sinking this nation into further debt with Obamacare. Perhaps that is change you believe in.

Too any commenter who thinks a secretary is underpaid, please explain how much revenue they generate for a firm relative to their salary. Perhaps a cash collections number in the 3-5x salary range (like an associate) would help us better understand your point.

PE, you're a partisan pinhead, seeking to reduce complex global economic problems to simplistic causes that can be laid at the doorstep of a political party that you don't like. Like I said, you must be a devotee of Michael Savage.

33/64

These comments are quite unbelieveable! I have worked in big law for years, and to be perfectly honest - all support staff (paralegals and secretaries alike) are under paid! I'll admit that there are many secretaries that are completely worthless. However who the hell do these first year associates think they are? You are fresh out of law school with either ZERO experience, or a bullshit SA position. What makes you think you are qualified for a $160K salary. You don't know enough about the law or working in a law firm to earn even half that.

It's very sad to me that the people who need the money the most (the support staffers) are the ones having their pay frozen. How about a lockstep that starts a first year at $85K and pay them what they are worth, and pay a secretary with 25 years under her belt the same!

As a person who went to Support Staff School, I am worried I won't be able to pay off my $150k in loans. Any advice?

This comment is addressed to the insolent cur that authored post no. 76.

My comments have nothing to do with partisan politics. As for Michael Savage, I don't listen to his rhetoric. Judging by your posts, I can see you are quite the devotee of Dan Savage. Perhaps this would explain why you enjoy being sodomized by the prospect of communism overtaking our system.

hey bitches, 60 here. I think 60k without a college degree is a pretty good salary. I know many many lawyers who make that. I don't think it is fair to compare what associate and staff make. staff leaves at 5:00 everyday. staff types letters and sends faxes. i work until 9pm. i use things i learned in law school to do my job. until my secretary can do the job of a paralegal, i don't think she is worth 60k, sorry. and i'm sure secretaries all feel so shat upon by the horrible associates, and i feel that pain, but i was once in your job. i treat our staff well. so bite me.

66 = Self-absorbed narcissist who thinks all secretaries are useless. When you get a good secretary a-hole (and you won't based on your complete lack of compassion or understanding for anyone but yourself -- i.e., typical attorney) you'll think that secretary is worth 10 times more than you earn because she/he will be saving your bacon on a daily basis, catching your careless errors, fixing your grammar and punctuation, knowing the court rules when you are too lazy to learn them yourself, and essentially making you look good and getting nothing in return for it except the middle finger from a firm that cares for nothing more than the bottom line. So take your BS and shove it up your ass where it belongs. Take your law degree and put it in the same place since you won't be needing it much longer.

77 - how much cash is collected off a first year's work? Is that more/less than the cash collected off a support staffer's work? This is a business.

80 -- Ha! A college degree means NOTHING! I've worked with many people with a college degree who have the worst work habits and don't know their asses from a hole in the ground. I'll stick with experience, REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, instead of a bunch of lazy assholes who got a degree then don't know how to work or think for themselves. Take your elitist crap and shove it.

To any fool who thinks a secretary only types letters, let me tell you about this secretary's duties: attorney, paralegal, litigation secretary and file clerk -- four jobs, one paycheck that barely covers the tasks required of one of these jobs. Get real kids. A good secretary does everything the attorney does except show up in court for hearings.

You tell 'em PE. You're my main man. Now you remember that I was President until January 20, 2009. So any "democratic legislation" could not have become law without my signature. I don't remember signing any piece of legislation like you describe, but then again, I don't remember too much. Heh, heh, heh. And if I did sign it, I must have agreed with it. So you just go on blaming everything on Obama and the democrats. I'm behind you 100%!

whoa I didn't know my secretary had so many responsibilities she was not living up to...

86 -- Whoa, then you have a lousy secretary. There are as many lazy/lousy secretaries as there are lazy/lousy attorneys. Get a good secretary, and keep her/him at all costs. Same goes for an attorney. A good one is a rare find.

60/80: I find it hard to believe you're an attorney. You write like an idiot. Most secretaries I know can write circles around you. Did you attend an accredited law school or was your work done on-line?

Not that facts should ever intrude on this site when uninformed opinion is so much more fun, but Mr. PE is incorrect about Barney Frank loosening restrictions. It was actually Henry Cisneros who loosened home ownership requirements when he was Clinton's Housing secretary and most posters here were in junior high. Venerable Cisneros got work on the KB and Countrywide boards and started his own home building company. It's nice being a limosine liberal and King - especially when you can make money at it. Muchas gracias Cisneros Real.

75, why don't you explain why a Firm Administrator, who generates no revenue to his firm, is paid a large salary? Some BigLaw administrators make 7 figures, far more than any associate. In fact, there are many positions within a law firm which generate no revenue but must be of value or those positions wouldn't exist. Perhaps you think the partners are charitable souls who simply pay salaries to "worthless" people due to their inherent kind nature?

88 -- I find the entire legal community hard to believe lately. I got into legal in 1988. I can tell you the business has changed for the worse in every way. Look for experienced people with an impeccable work ethic to falling off the vine quickly. Most are sick to death of the pearls-before-swine atmosphere that now permeates the halls of just about evey law firm. Why do good work, be loyal, be reliable, work overtime, etc. when none of it is appreciated? Waste of time.

90 -- because most law firm "administrators" are a bunch of sycophants whose main directive is to be a roadblock to progress.

91, Pearls Before Swine? Sounds like a porno.

93 -- That would be a pearl neckless on a pig. Much different scenario. Or is it?

93 -- That would be a pearl necklace on a pig. Much different scenario. Or is it?

WSGR associate here. WSGR asssociates are very unhappy. Morale is at an all time low. Business is slow. (The poster above who stated certain areas are busy is obviously a lying HR tool.)

WSGR knows it cannot compete with the big boys and is sinking.

What do you expect from a firm named in many backdating scandals, named in the HR pretexting debacle, and in which its own chairman paid a $9 M settlement for one scandal alone.

Many of us cannot wait until the economy improves to move on to a real law firm.

By the way, many other inappropriate practices may publicly come to light soon.

PE, it's quite obvious to the ATL community from your many postings that it is you who enjoys sodomy.

Insolent Cur
33/64/76

Working at a law firm, sodomy, it's all the same -- bend over, take it dry, and no kiss before or thank you afterwards. Great career!

96 doesn't work at WSGR.

Yes, 96 is a WSGR associate.

Too bad 99 is an HR tool trying to defend a sorry excuse for a law firm that the big boys laugh at.

PE - Now I'm sure you are a disgruntled law student. Any corporate lawyer who was around for the past 30 years would know that the roots of this particular crisis stemmed from the repeal of Glass Stegeall. The culprits were a Republican house (specifically Gramm) and Clinton, and together they allowed the cause of this financial crisis: mortgage securitization. The Community Re-investment act didn't help, but thats been around since the 70's, it only became a problem when the law incentivized mortgage borkers to lend to the indigent and stupid poor by allowing them to pass off the risk in the form of securities to the ignorant investor.

Obama of course is following the same appraoch to the crisis that his predecessor did, preserving the white collar financial sector. Unless you are a complete bonehead you should support this, because his decision to bail out the banks most likely kept you and I in business. Obama is as much a corporatist as any other President, he just hides it better. I would think you could appreciate that.

82 - Your post shows how little you know. A first year associate bring in practically NOTHING! Yes, they may bill by the hour, but they don't have that much work to do, and partners are constantly writing off their time because of their complete lack of understanding of what they are doing. It's costs more to have a first year than anything they could bring in.

The sooner you start learning how the "business" works, the better off you'll be. Your response was very typical of a first or second year who feels the need to justify their existence! DUMB ASS!

102 - I'm not sure the basis for your opinion. Seeing as I have been a big law associate for 6 years, I find it curious that you equate a first year associate's inability to "bring in" work with their market value. Even if their time is "constantly" written off, cash is still collected on their work, unlike support staff. Not much time needs to be billed / collected at an average first year billing rate to at least cover salary. Before long, the firm covers overhead and shortly thereafter reaps huge profits from a person recently removed from being a first year. The same will never be said for support staff. Please enlighten me on the aspects of this business that I don't understand. Thanks in advance.

103 - Firstly, I never said that support staff was profitable, other than paralegals. Infact, some of the senior paralegals at my firm are more profitable than even 3 or 4 years. They are more experienced and less of their time is written off, because they actually know what they are doing.

Why don't you take a little walk down to your HR department and have a talk with them about just how much money it costs to have a first year associate. I think your little eyes will be opened to the reality of the situation. An associate (despite what you may think) doesn't actually start becoming profitable until about their 2-3 year.

WSGR associate here.

20 - WSGR has over 600 lawyers, a global presence, and represents clients like Google. I'd say it qualifies as a big firm.

96/100 - Full of crap. WSGR is a great place to work if you're not a d-bag.

The firm is doing fine. Many of its practices are busy, especially litigation and anti-trust. The Energy and Clean Tech business is taking off and even Corporate is starting to pick up. I'm in the litigation practice and will likely hit 2100 this year.

After reading about other firms on ATL, it seems WSGR is doing better than most.

Partner Emeritus--

Your narrow-minded, self-interested economic policy fails to take into account its effects on third parties.

To wit...you've partially lost another ally in Judge Richard Posner, who has now publicly become a Keynesian.

You and your kind have gotten it wrong. My apologies, but the plebes have spoken. Your tough love model is going to go down in flames under the new administration. Try as you might to save your profit per partner, you are going to be...wait for it...TAXED. You deserve it, because your profits are based on a system where almost all of society's surplus is redistributed upward to the rich.

Instead of sacrificing the lives and means of others on an alter to your wealth, ego, and disgusting penchants for sexual favors...the tables are now going to be turned. Your investment portfolio, income, and spending sprees are about to be surrendered to the greater good.

96/100 works for Cooley.

It's funny -- all of these attacks about support staff. I've never heard jokes about support staff but I've heard many jokes about lawyers. I've been a legal secretary for 40 years and have saved many attorneys' behinds – some are not as smart as they think they are. I might not have a law degree but I can write and edit better than many attorneys I know. I've come in early, stayed late and worked through my lunch hour and on weekends -- busted my ass to meet deadlines. I might not generate income for my firm, but I make sure the attorneys with whom I work don’t have to worry about quality work product.
The new breed of attorneys coming out of law school have an "I'm special" attitude that's worthless in the workplace -- they bring arrogance to a new level.

#108 - AMEN! With support staff laid off 3 times more often than attorneys, yet having made, at best, half of what first-year associates were making, our sympathies ought to lie with them, and not the young, whiny associates I've come across, many of whom have do not yet have mortgages to pay and children to put through college.

Hey #60 - if you worked for me with that attitude, you'd have been outta there long ago. And if I worked for someone like you, I wouldn't put in any effort at all. I hope you trip over your grossly enlarged ego, lose your health insurance, and end up panhandling on a dirty street corner, in the rain.

Hey #60 - if you worked for me with that attitude, you'd have been outta there long ago. And if I worked for someone like you, I wouldn't put in any effort at all. I hope you trip over your grossly enlarged ego, lose your health insurance, and end up panhandling on a dirty street corner, in the rain.

To all you crybaby associates out there:
1) do you really believe that you earn the firm so much money as to be paid $160K + bonus at the outset?
2) for those of you who think support staff are worthless, why did you accept a secretary to begin with? Do your own "support" work and see how your revenue generation fares. Really. Could you work as efficiently and effectively? I'd love to know.
3) as for your student loans, WAKE UP MORONS: plenty of support staff have student loans themselves, or loans for children; mortgages to pay; bills to pay, etc. If you didn't adequately analyze various scenarios re paying off your student debt, then shame on you. You deserve to starve in a hovel.
4) Thanks for reminding me why I left BigLaw litigation for non-profit work.

My suggestion: Reduce salaries of all experienced staff personnel (forcing them to move on), hire lesser paid minimal staff, force the high paid lawyers to do all the work, and in turn meet those high budgets and PPs.

My suggestion: Reduce salaries of all experienced staff personnel (forcing them to move on), hire lesser paid minimal staff, force the high paid lawyers to do all the work, and in turn meet those high budgets and PPs.

Ok boys and girls, let’s get something straight:

Yes, there are lazy/useless staff members in the world. Big shock. Some of them were born that way. Others started as hard-working, idealistic souls who were mentally/emotionally abused into bitter apathy by attorneys who think all staff are, by definition, worthless. Yet there are still some among us who have fought to maintain a positive attitude and a work ethic of which they can be proud, despite the scandalously ill-treatment they receive. So, if you truly believe you have never seen a decent secretary, I can assure that the problem is not your staff, but your dangerously warped view of reality.

To 54: Thank you.

To 75: How much revenue does a secretary generate? None. How much revenue would YOU generate without support staff? I suggest you spend one month doing all of the work your support staff would normally do (in addition to your own), then count the billable hours you lost. Perhaps you might learn something.

To 77: Amen!!

To 80: My my, dear, that expensive education didn’t buy you much, did it? I would love to hear from those staff members who actually leave at their scheduled departure time each day, and spend their work hours only typing letters and sending faxes. “Treating staff well” means respecting both the job, and the person performing it. Clearly, you respect neither. I’m sure it’s terribly gracious of you to “feel our pain”, but don’t kid yourself - you are one of the people causing it.

To 81: Thank you.

To 84: You’re absolutely right, but you left out the rest of a secretary’s duties: caterer, courier, therapist, mother, cheerleader, travel agent, human search engine, conscience.

To 86: They say we reap what we sow. Are you living up to your responsibilities to your secretary? I suspect not…

To all who have offered support: You are appreciated.

Yes, I’m a secretary. I work hard every day, and clock as much overtime as my very busy associates, without complaint. Like many secretaries, I genuinely care about supporting my attorneys, and providing quality legal services to our clients. Attorneys who treat me with the respect I deserve can count on me to work until I drop, cover their asses, and take the proverbial bullet for them. And for my years of experience, skills, knowledge and dedication, I am paid substantially more than the $60k that No. 80, Esq. seemed to find so exorbitant. I am proud to say I earn every penny. Sometimes, boys and girls, you really do get what you pay for.

Class dismissed.

#115 - You ROCK! And I agree 100%! I would be honored to have you as my secretary!

Dear 80 (and some others),

I am "staff." I have a law degree (and practiced at a big firm for some years) and have a masters degree. I do not go home at 5 - wish I could. Are my hours better than as an associate (in a busy economy)? For the most part yes but it is NOT 9 to 5. I work late hours still. I answer e-mails at all hours.

I have had secretaries who did nothing and I understand the frustration but I think lawyers do not realize much of what goes on to support them in thier jobs. Try to spend a day without any staff, no mail room, no getting reimbursed through accounting, no research help from the library, no paralegals. See how your firm does without a marketing department or a duplicating department. No, not all staff is highly trained and not all of them are busy all the time but many allow the firm to function.

For those that say - what are they worth - what revenue do they bring in. For one, staff often does bill - not all of it, but some. But you are also not looking at the right numbers. What is the return on investment. What would the cost be if attorneys had to do all of the things staff do themselves? Don't respond with "the clients would pay for that" because most would not pay a second year to do a few hours of duplicating.

116,

Thank you! I have no doubt that I would be honored to work with you!

And thank you for providing proof that there are still some exceptional people in this industry!

115

102 - You are a six year associate -hmmmm! Hope you're not looking for that partnership any time soon. Why don't you fire all the support staff and try to get your work out - what a dick.

102 - You are a six year associate -hmmmm! Hope you're not looking for that partnership any time soon. Why don't you fire all the support staff and try to get your work out - what a dick.

102 - You are a six year associate -hmmmm! Hope you're not looking for that partnership any time soon. Why don't you fire all the support staff and try to get your work out - what a dick.

to 115 - you are awesome. What firm do you work for? Mine is cheap and I work my butt off and have worked for many psycho attorneys over the years.

122 - Thanks!! I'm not comfortable giving the name of my firm, but it's a mid-size national L&E Firm. I work in the San Francisco office, and I absolutely love it! We're up to our eyeballs in work, the people are fantastic and very team-oriented, and the benefits are the best I've had in my 18 years in this industry. We're going to be expanding the office again soon (we'll double in size in the next year), so if you're in the Bay Area, keep an eye out for some L&E jobs opening up after the holidays!

It does appear that an experienced paralegal doing the work of, let's say, a 4th year associate and earning $30 per hour, but billing $200 per hour, might be earning their keep and making a little profit for his/her BigLaw employer. Regretfully, said paralegal is expected to work late, has a billing target and a meager bonus which is not tied to billable hours.