Ah the joys of at-will employment.

What about being first, Beeyotch?

Suggestion: Create two ATL sites. One for the big boys and another - Junior ATL - for small firms in small cities. Hate to sound like a snob, but I don't come to this site for stories about some firm I've never heard of. The new site could be called Below the Law or Below Above the Law.

Duh. Winston also has a do not work with list circled to partners and senior associates so they don't get screwed by having their mid level or junior canned at some sort of critical time in a case's cycle or deal. They've been cutting 2-5 associates every few weeks since last winter.

Fun fact? No one knows they are on the list and no one (except for an inadvertent disclosure) is supposed to tell. Your work just dries up despite herculean efforts to get more work. No one will explain why they have nothing and you'll see other people (all younger) staffed on matters. I wonder how many income partners are being let go?

4 -

Suggestion: Don't make suggestions. W&S is a V50 firm which has over 1,000 attorneys, and offices in Chicago, NY, LA, SF, DC... if they're so small that you have to bitch about reading about them, then you have an absurdly narrow focus.

Offers haven't gone out yet

4-

Suggestion: Mystal is a ManBearPig.

How you like Obama now?

4. Kindly place both of your hands on your shoulders. Push down. You'll hear a sucking noise, but don't worry, it is just your head coming out of your ass. Then breathe freely and please shut up.

4-there already is such a site. It's called big debt small law.

8 - Well done.

i thought Tom Fitzgerald promised offers/no-offers over labor day weekend?

How do you think 4 gets his kicks? Here's something I saw at a website I...frequent.

"Suggestion: Create two spank sites. One with the big boys and another with guys like me. Hate to sound like a cockslut, but I don't come to this site for stories about pencil tools like mine--I'd never get off. The new site could be called Below the Belt or Below Above Average."

4-

Suggestion: Get back to CareerBuilder.

They also promised offers/ no offers before OCI (that was before the Labor Day promise).

Years ago, offers came through fed ex when I worked there. I also got a phone call a few days earlier.

were the associates let go from corporate or litigation?

-4

Suggestion: Tell me how my ass tastes.

Shaq Esq

"it is difficult so say" O.o

The goings-on of this non-peer and non-preeminent law firm are of little concern to me, mostly because anyone who is given the pink slip this late into the recession is either lathargic or inept--and probably both.

Incidentally, I am secure and have an outstanding offer at my father's preeminent peer law firm.

In my day, the only stealth layoffs that occurred were when a man jumped to his death before my Pinkertons could violently drag him screaming from his office. The ledge on the 40th floor near the structured finance department came to be known as Lawyers' Leap because of this.

How you like me now?

I know a recent grad who is starting at W&S in LA this fall. Anyone know how things are going specifically in that office?

I heard offers and rejections for Winston go out by mail. Is that true? You guys don't even get phone calls? How lame.

In theory, this could be the best way to do a layoff. Be honest with the associate (i.e., no made-up bad performance review), but maybe give him or her a few months of "at work" severance time to luck out and find a job.

Offers/no offers are being given through phone calls. At least that was what they told us.

Is Winston & Strawn even licensed to practice law in the state of Illinois?

21 not insensitive, but ironic and witty.

What office were most of these layoffs in?

Winston told summers that they would receive an offer/no-offer "not before Labor Day."

It's best to get out of the legal profession anyhow. Do something you love. Remember that money isn't everything. If you are smart as you think you are, you will find a way to make money doing something you love. Getting "no-offered" or laid off is actually the sunshine during a rainy day, the good news wrapped in darkness, a blessing in disguise. Be grateful, be happy, be joyful.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

6 = non-joke getting, insecure Winston jr (insecure about both his station in life and, uh, the *real reason* that girl never called him back)

I heard that they promised 15k stipend for the deferred associates, but then explained that it would be 9 installments of 1,500. I'm not going to cry for those who are getting slightly less to not work, but that's weird. Just saying.

I heard that they promised 15k stipend for the deferred associates, but then explained that it would be 9 installments of 1,500. I'm not going to cry for those who are getting slightly less to not work, but that's weird. Just saying.

Alas, a firm I'm familiar with.

Indiana 2L

This post is addressed to Commenter #21:

We, the undersigned, believe that the only thing a wannabe who calls himself "JaKe" has "outstanding" is a parole violation warrant for failure to register as a convicted sex offender.

Sincerely,

JaMarcus Russell
DeJuan Blair
LeBron James

Do we know the offer rates for any Chicago firms other than K&E? Sidley has not notified anyone yet, I haven't heard anything about Mayer, I hear Jenner has given out some offers, but don't know anything about rates yet. Chicago firms needs to get up to speed.

STOP FEEDING THE()@*#&$(@*#)$^ TROLLS

If they are still bloodletting, will they be taking on any of the incoming class they kicked back until January?

Odds on them giving out offers/no-offers and re-deferring the incoming again?

only about 10 percent of all new law school grads get into big law.

It's a blood letting. And it's just the way things work there. You won't know you are going to be laid off until you see messages from PK or PH or JH suddenly appear in your in-box. Partners were pissed about not knowing about layoffs (one associate was shit canned right before trial) so they instituted the "staff at your own risk" list. Fun place. Excellent cookies.

31=Winston hiring committee member.

42 -- Still JH? Not SD'A?

Give me back my asslobster.

Mr. Krinkle

SD'A is also in the loop and doing this. JH was his predecessor.

32 = THOUGHTFUL

32 -- are you nuts? Of course money is everything. It represents the value society puts on your labor -- the higher it is, the more you are seen as contributing. If you aren't making much money, it is because no one sees you as offering anything of value. Moreover, it is too many people pursuing personal fulfillment rather than money that has led to the crisis we face today -- where the poor, who haven't maximized their income, want redistribution from the rich, who have. Your first obligation is to do right by your family, which means earning as much as possible and not being a burden on society.

38- DLA Piper is not necessarily a Chicago firm, but one of its largest offices is in Chicago. I've heard that all of their offers/ no offers have been made.

Winston laid off at least one first year in Chicago in the last two months.

What is happening at Paul Hastings?

I hope 48 is some kind of troll. Otherwise, that's just a sad perspective to have on life.

MysTTTal - Why don't you do a post about which firms have yet to give out offers? We need to start crapping on the firms that are holding people in limbo. Plus, these firms are flooding fall oci with students that may eventually get offers and never would have re-interviewed otherwise.

MysTTTal - Why don't you do a post about which firms have yet to give out offers? We need to start crapping on the firms that are holding people in limbo. Plus, these firms are flooding fall oci with students that may eventually get offers and never would have re-interviewed otherwise.

MysTTTal - Why don't you do a post about which firms have yet to give out offers? We need to start crapping on the firms that are holding people in limbo. Plus, these firms are flooding fall oci with students that may eventually get offers and never would have re-interviewed otherwise.

52: I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE FACT THAT 48 HAS A SAD PERSPECTIVE ON LIFE. HOPEFULLY, HE WILL NEVER BE IN THE SITUATION WHERE HE MAKES A LOT OF MONEY WHILE NEVER SEEING HIS FAMILY EVER (IF IS EVEN CAPABLE OF STARTING A FAMILY), AND THEN REALIZES HIS FATAL FLAW WHILE LYING ON HIS DEATHBED FEELING ALONE.

52 -- no, it is called being a rational economic actor. One should make decisions based on maximizing their value to the individual. An individual's value is maximized when he/she is making a maximum contribution to sociey. And society's value attributed to that individual's contribution is reflected in his/her salary. If what you are doing is of greater value than what I'm doing, someone will be willing to pay you more than me. Salaries are objective facts. People may say public service makes a valuable contribution to society, but it doesn't contribute to economic growth; otherwise, people would pay those engaging in public service more. Your contribution is reflected in how much you make the pie bigger. You may not like it, but economics isn't called the dismal science for nothing.

What really pisses me off is people seeking to find themselves or find fulfillment, and then want the government to give them tax breaks, pay for their retirement, and give them health care. Earn enough money to take care of those things yourselves. You aren't promised a fulfilling life -- get over it. Work isn't supposed to be fun -- that's why they call it work. Your job is to support your family without recourse to the state or resources of other citizens. Period.

52 -- no, it is called being a rational economic actor. One should make decisions based on maximizing their value to the individual. An individual's value is maximized when he/she is making a maximum contribution to sociey. And society's value attributed to that individual's contribution is reflected in his/her salary. If what you are doing is of greater value than what I'm doing, someone will be willing to pay you more than me. Salaries are objective facts. People may say public service makes a valuable contribution to society, but it doesn't contribute to economic growth; otherwise, people would pay those engaging in public service more. Your contribution is reflected in how much you make the pie bigger. You may not like it, but economics isn't called the dismal science for nothing.

What really pisses me off is people seeking to find themselves or find fulfillment, and then want the government to give them tax breaks, pay for their retirement, and give them health care. Earn enough money to take care of those things yourselves. You aren't promised a fulfilling life -- get over it. Work isn't supposed to be fun -- that's why they call it work. Your job is to support your family without recourse to the state or resources of other citizens. Period.

Two words for #48 -- Bear Stearns.

God bless you all.

48/57 : I will be in a career that I love. It will be fulfilling, but you are right -- I will not be making as much money as you. You are also right in that you will be paying for my pension, loan forgiveness, and other benefits with your higher marginal tax rate. Thank you! This truly is the American dream.

Ha ha. Looks like 57 got the short end of the stick.

KEEP MAKING THAT MONEY AND PAYING THOSE TAXES, 48!

The partner in charge of associate matters at Winston is the sneakiest motherfucker on the face of the earth, so no surprise that they took the (supposedly) stealthy approach.

57, 58 is the reason we have lawyer jokes. The law used to be an honorable profession where much fewer people mastered the law and were committed to it. Now we have people who are just in it to make money calling themselves lawyers.

As to the credibility of his arguments, he couldn't be further from the truth. Public defenders are some of the least paid lawyers, but might be the most important to society. Ensuring that everyone gets a defense. In many cases this means keeping people out of jail and instead paying taxes. But 57,58 would never acknowledge that because he cares only about the salary he makes. What an ass.

59, a couple words for you: Massive government subsidies toward housing for poor people who should never have been homeowners in the first place.

If only someone could have proposed stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lending back in 2003...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html

Actually, we need people like 57. I am enjoying my career as a civil servant working M-F 9-5, with pension, dental/medical/vision, holidays, vacation, flex scheduling, good salary, stable employment, and other benefits. I also purchased a condo, the monthly payments of which are above my means. I need people like 57 to keep working hard making money and paying taxes so that I can have a fulfilling life.

66 -- ultimately, where did that subsidy money end up? Whose pocket is it in right now? Certainly not the homeowners who lost their homes.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame SHAME on you.

Elie - here is a serious idea for you or layoff tracker. Try and get a hold of associate head count numbers from Summer 2007 - just before the recession started - or as close to that as possible and compare it with current headcount numbers. While not 100%, it will be pretty telling as to total layoffs, including stealth.

Layoffs did not officially start until CC laid off those 6 people in October '07 - so the NALP forms for that recruiting season will be pretty close. There is at least 1 firm that is down in associate headcount 50%, but their official layoff numbers are much lower. Doing this will give people a real sense of which firms are engaging in stealth layoffs, which firms are in serious trouble and some more accurate numbers.

57 & 58 = epic fail

*farts*

68, they got to live in a place much nicer than they could have otherwise afforded, and they "lost" a home that they never truly fully paid for and owned in the first place. Cry me a river.

@66; oh, and let's not forget Wall Street's brilliant scheme to monetize said mortgages, slice and dice them to death, and repackage pigshit as a "collateralized security." It wasn't just the poor folks signing up for their dream homes, sir. And who exactly failed to enforce policy? Who gutted the SEC?? Hmmm, does the name G.W. Bush ring any bells??? Please take your Rush Limbaugh/Glen Beck right-wing fantasies elsewhere.

65, do you seriously think that a person who requires representation from a public defender is making a significant tax contribution.

Not 57, 58

73 -- I don't mourn for the "homeowners" either; they shouldn't have gotten those homes in the first place. My point was that the subsidy money (*your* money) ultimately benefitted the bankers, not the poors.

-- 68

what office were the 20 layoffs in?

When the Bear Stearns people were adding to the pie, they got paid well. When they ceased to add, the firm went belly up. The only thing is that the government shouldn't have bailed them out, or AIG -- it distorts market incentives. All of them, if they weren't adding value, should go under.

61 -- that's why I vote Republican -- because you are a leech on those adding more value and who are more successful for you. It is unfair that I should subsidize your fulfillment. Either get by on what you make, or do something else. From each according to his abilities; to each according to his contributions.

65 -- if public defenders add so much value, why aren't they paid more? Clearly (a) there are enough people willing to take such jobs that there is no shortage, and (b) society doesn't think they add much value. Your paragraph reflects your values: what public defender's make reflects society's values. They are different.

I am so jealous of people who do not work for Latham. I'd kill to have been laid off quietly, for economic reasons as a midlevel instead of publicly, after four months as a first year. There is nothing good out there for a first year, especially one who can't pretend to still be employed.

Bob Dell and Dave Gordon not only do mass first year layoffs (more than half a class), but they do it in a way that fucks you as much as possible. I wish I'd never set foot in that rank toilet. 2Ls beware, mass hire mass fire is Latham's model and we may be in for a double dip recession.

57/58,

52 here. There are plenty of people who are doing something they love and/or that achieves that personal fulfullment you disdain so much and aren't necessarily maximizing their income, but still manage to stay off the dole.

And an intrepid student of economics like yourself should be familiar with the concept of a labor-leisure indifference curve. Some people value having lives outside of work (i.e. some more liesure time) more than the extra income that would be earned working those hours. So it's rational for them to have 9 to 5 jobs instead of billing 2400 hours. Moreover, there are psychic benefits from spending work hours in careers that are "fulfilling," and those benefits can be given an ecomomic value.

So yes, it might not produce 100% optimal economic growth at the macro level when people pursue careers they actually find fulfilling but pay a little less, but you can't say they're acting irrationally at the micro level.

The ship be sinking...

I do find it interesting that they're willing to claim that it's economically driven, considering that they were carrying those people for so long. Either work's not picking up there or they under fired during the Feb. layoffs.

57,

How do you account for income in the form of capital gains? Surely it is not a measure of a person's "contribution to society."

80, you are right about the labor-leisure indifference curve. All I'm saying is that I shouldn't be taxed to support their preference on the curve, when mine is different. If they choose a mix that leads to a lower income, that's their choice -- and I'm all for their freedom to make that choice. But why should I subsidize it?

Where's the birth certificate?

58,

The Army football coach is the highest paid federal employee, does that mean he gives the greatest contribution to society? Grow a brain.

83 -- capital gains are the return on the investment the individual made in others. The initial investment is a contribution to society, just in the form of capital rather than labor.

86 -- in terms of society's values, yes. As a society, we care a tremendous amount about football, which provides a platform for advertising and sales and spin-off products all of which contribute to overall GDP. Do I agree with society's values? No. Is it rational, from an economic perspective, to pursue those skills and careers that society rewards? Yes. If I could be Army's football coach, I would strive to do so.

84, you're not being taxed for other people's decision on the labor-leisure indifference curve, you're being taxed for you're own decision on it.

Seriously, what's the deal with the offers from Winston... I know somethere is reading this. How about at least sending us an email along the lines of "Sorry, taking longer than expected. You'll know by [date]."

I really, really, really hope that the offers/no-offers aren't being held until Friday for some bullshit PR reasoning.

89 -- That assumes that government policy is to promote more leisure, and penalize those who want to labor more. Then a punitive tax would make sense. I think that's wrong -- we should encourage maximum labor to increase productivity and overall GDP. Work, not leisure, should be rewarded.

90,

I don't think they would be holding the offers/no offers until a Friday for PR reasons. If they were going to do that, they would have done it last Friday before a 3 day weekend, when there could be more news in the cycle to keep it under the radar. Additionally, 31's reply makes it clear that they don't have the list yet. The insistence that they said that offers wouldn't be given out until "after" Labor Day makes it clear that they intend to back it up. Originally they said before OCI, then at the end-of-summer video conference they said they were targeting Labor Day (look at the old ATL post about it for confirmation), now apparently it will be after Labor Day, with no end in sight. GIven how many times the story has changed, I wouldn't be shocked if they keep the announcement until late September or early October.

77. Just Chicago (and includes many more ~40 people were asked to leave since the last big purge). Firm wide, there are more but I don't know the numbers.

91,
The government doesn't tax people based on how many hours they work, they tax people based on how much money they make (regardless of the time worked). I guess it's just your own damn fault for wanting more money at the expense of leisure and then having to pay more taxes to boot.

92, God I hope not. I already have a tension headache.

94 = spot on

94 -- that's the point -- it is leisure, not work, that should be taxed. The tax system is unfair to those who are successful, because everyone can be successful -- those who aren't didn't work hard enough in school or their career. High school isn't graded on a curve. Everyone can make straight A's. For those who don't, we have to ask -- why didn't they study more and why should we pay taxes to offer programs to them. People should be self-sufficient, without government aid.

97 = crybaby who needs to stop being scared of the world.

92,

At this point, take 2 advil and try not to think about it. That's the best advice I can give right now. It sucks, but what can we do to make them go faster?

92: if indeed you're right re: late September/early October, that's brutal. Just adding insult to injury for those no-offered, AND delaying their ability to apply & canvas for alternatives.

Elie, DO A POST re: CHICAGO firms offer/no-offer rates. This silence is deafening.

Mayer, DLA, B-M, Sidley, MWE, W-S, Seyfarth, Katten, Jenner, Schiff, Lord B&B, etc...

C'mon, there's a story here, and it's 100x better than biglaw kids open thread or whatever the hell was up earlier today.

Enough with the political economy debate

i second 100's proposition. chicago is way behind.

Bottom line: blame the corporate culture. Money and profits, more for me, less for you.

98 -- I'm not scared of the world. I just worked hard and responded to incentives, and don't want to subsidize those who didn't. Are you afraid of standing on your own two feet? Why do you need my help?

Hugs for Homos!

104, because you choose to give it to me. You choose to make more money and pay more taxes. Case closed. Stop being so scared. The world might be cold and hard to you, but you do really need to open your eyes and use your brain.

Everyone should have re-interviewed as 3L's and applied for clerkships. Odd of landing an offer is small simply because firms are trying to shore up their fourth quarter (when that damn line of credit is due) and most are STILL having trouble collecting from clients.

107:

What financial costs do offered associates pose for Q4 earnings? They're not drawing salary or even bar stipends until subsequent Qs.

100,

I guess the best thing for summers without offers yet is to assume a no-offer and apply for jobs anyway. It's tough to answer the question, "will you take an offer if one is extended?" But at this point, what can people really do? For the people who are waiting on Winston, they can cite recent developments as reasoning for why they might not. I don't think you can make it a plus in an interview, but I think you could deaden its impact.

57 - do you really think that public service doesn't help the economy grow? Enjoy trying to hold on to your piece of the economic pie without prosecutors and other government enforcement agencies.

Wait, is CHI so bad that we're going to see some MLB kind of offer rates??

104, read this once. Then read it again. Then read it a third time.

YOU CAN CHOOSE THE GAME, BUT YOU CAN'T CHOOSE THE RULES.

Deal with it, or go move to Antarctica.

92 = stealthly way of Winston & Strawn telling summers you won't get an offer until October at the earliest

110:

57 is probably a little pipsqueak. He can make all the money he wants, but if not for cops and prosecutors, people like you and me would just take his money from him.

106, 112 -- I oppose our tax policy as unfair. There should be a flat tax. Everyone should pay the same percentage of their income. Everyone benefits from government; everyone should pay for it.

110 -- If so, why aren't they paid more? We have an efficient labor market. Clearly, their skills are more common and less in demand than those of other lawyers.

113,

92 here. I am a W & S summer waiting to hear back. I am not part of the process, only someone subject to it. I was expressing a gut feeling, with the intent to comfort, not to sound like someone that knows when Winston will release the offers.

52 is right. Everyone is alone and on your own and there is no reason that the government or anyone else should ever help any other person-no money, no healthcare, no housing, no public education, no nothing. If you can't pay for it--fuck you. Come to think of it I am going home this evening to tell my freeloading wife and kids to get job before I kick their asses out on the street

Edward Latham, lol

117 -- close. We should give everyone a free public education, because they can't control the circumstances into which they were born. What they make of it is up to them, however. This is the land of opportunity. If you go to school and make straight A's, you will have additional educational opportunities and an opportunity to translate those into jobs and income. If you don't make straight A's, it's your own damn fault. Society owes you an education, so you can make something of yourself. But that's it.

92: 31 here. I was a Winston summer, and they told us the "not before Labor Day" line during the videoconference with Tom Fitzgerald during the last week of our summer (it made ATL).

117, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

To the many iterations of 57/58:

You're right, the market is just filled to the brim with rational maximizers. There's no herd mentality or group-think going on in America. The market carefully analyzes every actor's contributions and pays them accordingly.

You can keep on believing your ketchup economic theory - I will observe what is actually happening in the real world. Most people's salaries are completely arbitrary and relevant only to the extent that they differentiate people in a given field - and even then they are susceptible to a great deal of random variables. To argue anything else is to not understand anything about the history of this country's economy; or, in your case, to take on an extremely narrow, proven-false view of basic economic principles and develop a worldview from there.

Keynes was right; you're wrong - get over it.

113, so you're saying I should stop looking at my phone every 5 minutes to make sure I have reception?

123. Uh, yes. And I'd put that energy into job hunting, kid.

122 -- so you're saying that if someone could do your job for less but with the same or better results, your employer wouldn't fire you and hire that other person? If the answer is no, then your employer is not upholding its fiduciary duty to its shareholders to maximize profit. Salaries are increasingly transparent via the Internet, firms do salary surveys and the like, there is lots of information aout there. No one is paid a dime more than they earn; otherwise, they would be replaced by someone cheaper with the same or better results and added profit for shareholders.

122 -- so you're saying that if someone could do your job for less but with the same or better results, your employer wouldn't fire you and hire that other person? If the answer is no, then your employer is not upholding its fiduciary duty to its shareholders to maximize profit. Salaries are increasingly transparent via the Internet, firms do salary surveys and the like, there is lots of information aout there. No one is paid a dime more than they earn; otherwise, they would be replaced by someone cheaper with the same or better results and added profit for shareholders.

Is Jim Thompson the most recent former Illinois governor who was not indicted? If not, why not?

Speaking of Winston and Strawn, does anyone know where we can find that infamous voicemail that someone from WS had left someone from Latham? The famous one about the Latham guy being a "monkey F---g scribe"?

The links that used to have the MP3 doesn't work any more =(((

Has W&S made any offers to 2L's yet?

88, don't be a dipshit. Society's "values" do not exist in a vacuum, which is one of the reasons why a pure free market will fail you every time. Society values leisure only to the extent that it is able to - i.e, basic needs are met, allowing them to divert disposable income and time into the pursuit of leisure activities. That does not mean that society "values" football above all else.

Jesus.

122 -- so you're saying that if your employer found someone who could do your job as well or better than you but who they could pay less, they would not fire you and hire the new person? If the answer is that they would not fire you, then they are violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders to maximize profits.

Salary data is transparent, via the Internet, salary surveys, and headhunters. Most companies won't keep employees that they could replace with those who earn less but have equal or greater productivity. Far from being arbitrary, most people aren't paid a cent more than they command on the open market.

57/58 = mad at the world because he is The Original Dickless Wonder . . . and all the money in the world can't change that.

Not sure how reliable this is (probably not very), but a comparison of the Feb '09 NALP forms for large Chicago firms vs. the number of associates currently shown on the firms' websites suggests the following:

Winston = 277 Chicago associates in Feb '09, now 198

Sidley = 310 Chicago associates in Feb '09, now 252

Kirkland = 384 Chicago associates in Feb '09, now 350

Mayer = 312 Chicago associates in Feb '09, now 244

Presumably most or all of the newly laid-off associates at any of these firms are still on the website. Also, it's possible that some of the associates as of Feb '09 have now made partner at these firms and therefore are no longer reflected in the associate head count. But assuming Winston hasn't made 79 partners in the last 6 months, Winston folks in these comments weren't kidding when they said they'd been shedding associates.

Yeah. What now, 57/58? What now?

NO ONE should be waiting until they know if they have an offer/no offer to start looking for the next opportunity. Having an offer is worth exactly nothing; they can revoke it at anytime and you will just be that much more screwed, so you might as well be looking for something new now.

132. People stay on W&S's site for ages. I'd knock another 30 or 40 people off that number.

Let this be a lesson for any talented students considering Winston for next summer...

57/58 - 61 wants to know if you'll pick up his laundry on your way home, punkin'.

57/58 - 61 wants to know if you'll pick up his laundry on your way home, punkin'.

125/126:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Real firms don't make hiring/firing decisions merely on the basis of "salary" and "results." Only the fake firms in your out-dated economics textbook do that. And if you honestly believe that filling an office with the highest producing, lowest paid workers possible (with no other considerations) is the best way to maximize shareholder value, then you're as out of touch as I think you are.

48 it looks like you just turned pussy on me. fuck free education. free education is not a right and if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. people who have proven there worth will be adequately compensated as their contribution is reflected in their salary and can pay for their kids education and those who can't pay for it...well we should just assume that they are stupid and lazy and will have stupid and lazy kids and if they don't like it tough shit because no one promised them a fulfilling life

140 -- Shareholder value is reflected in profits. If you have higher producers at lower salary, profits rise (more sales/income and less expenses). What other considerations are there? Employee morale? Morale is meaningless -- you have a contract with your employer, and you are supposed to give your best efforts regardless of whether you like your job or not. I do. Turnover? We've just stipulated people can be replaced with higher producers at lower salaries, so that's not a problem.

141. "there worth"

Ha. Yes. I'm sure the education you "paid for" was worth every cent.

OK - enough of the communist drivel about salary and what it means in society...let's get back to W&S...

As one of the many W&S summers in Chicago who will probably not get an offer - this is a call to the W&S people who are probably secretly reading this at home out of fear that Tom will can you for reading such subervisive material as ATL...

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! - just tell us something - even if its a mass e-mail that says, "Hey, sorry to keep you waiting, but we're still figuring things out - we'll know later..."

We know that you are probably right in the little "not before labor day" word game" you played on us...We concede - you win, you are smarter than us... but the fact is, we all thought it was going to be around labor day, and now we are dying. PLEASE help us out here!

143--actually it was worth every penny, but while I was taking calculus, you were taking typing. You have that on me. Hope that got you a good job as a secretary. So fuck you

141: your (ridiculously absurd) assertion overlooks the fact that a basic education is necessary to exercise those fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution (i.e., participation in the electoral process). I take it, then, that you feel teh dumbs and teh poors should be denied their constitutional rights as well?

You're not only ignorant, you're also an idiot.

144---this is Tom. You didn't get a job and you won't get a job. Sorry for the delay in getting our decision made but I was at the beach.

Hey 144, right there with you. At least tell us you are still sitting on your asses and haven't decided yet...but if you already know I don't have a job, why not just tell me?

Also, watching the 2Ls at my school parading around with their callbacks for next summer, while none of us know shit yet, is really, really aggravating.

And to whoever told us to apply to clerkships instead...it's annoying when everyone and their mother is applying for these because no one has any other job. I know extremely qualified people who would give away limbs for clerkships, and they probably won't even get them. I think people need to stop telling us to apply for clerkships as a viable option, when it's really just career services' way of stalling on trying to tell us that they have nothing out there for us.

W&S summers. Get cracking. Assume you don't have a job. Also assume W&S will not get back to you until Oct. This firm is a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slow place when it comes to making big decisions. The stealth tricking of people over time vs. just manning up doing a big layoff is an example of this. And pretty much every associate (and many income partners) are worried about their own lives and in the dark.

146--your leap of logic (faith) that the government should provide free education so that it can ensure the citizenry is capable of exercising their Constitutional rights in a prudent manner (prudent is the key word here because the right can be exercised regardless of education as we have learned more than once) makes no more sense than saying that the government should provide health care all so that the citizenry is healthy enough to go to the polls or that the government should fully fund the office of public defenders so that criminal defendants have their rights preserved. Those things are not priorities so why should we pretend education should be a priority much less under your logic? As many of the more manly types on these sorts of comment rolls suggest, we should shut the government down, and when there are no more laws or enforcers to get in the way, I will be the first to go to 48’s house and burn it down. We will see if his neighbor likes him enough then to help him out

I don't remember him saying before Labor Day. I'm pretty sure he said they were targeting Labor Day. My guess is that they thought the other Chicago firms would have announced by now. I also heard that there is a bit of a civil war at Winston between NY and some satellite offices and Chicago. Chicago is really hurting while NY isn't doing as badly. Chicago would rather no-offer most while NY and others want higher numbers.

151 -- the dispute is not news - it's ongoing, and has been for a while; only the topic changes...

NY is actually insanely profitable. The west coast offices are self sustaining. Paris is a money maker. London is tiny, but useless. DC is an albatross of sorts. The NC office an even bigger albatross. Asia is Heller (and all that it entails). It'll be interesting to see what happens with Chicago, which falls between these extremes in terms of profitability, etc.

Expect plenty of no-offers. Also, first years getting canned in Feb. post reviews (which are just starting up next Oct. Nov.).

144 - i agree. Winston, if you are reading this. TELL US SOMETHING!

150 -- what does burning my house down have to do with anything? I support taxes for public order, defense, and education. What I want is an end to welfare and social programs. Save for your own retirement (I am, as I expect Social Security not to be around). Save so you have money if you become unemployed (I do). Rely on yourself, not the government. Plan ahead, so if you're fired tomorrow you have new employment opportunities already lined up. Learn what industries are growing and dying, so you pick your job well. Don't lollygag through life, like so many people do. Plan and prepare.

79 - you earned your fate.

"targeting labor day," "not before labor day," "around labor day," is a whole lot of BS semantics. As if waiting on pins and needles for 6+ weeks wasn't enough time for hiring needs to be determined. riiight. Our summer coordinator said "by labor day" numerous times, be professional and just send us a mass email letting us know how much more time for "due diligence" you need.

oh, and thanks for shorting us on our last paycheck.

You think Winston's "labor day" trick was bad? ATL should cover Strook.

what happened with Strook?

Stroock said they'd get back to summers in mid-august.

Did Stroock's recruiting people let you know why there was a delay/acknowledge the delay?

28: W&S' IL license has been suspended for crimes against humanity.

Big Public Layoff (Latham) vs. Slow Stealth Layoff (Winston)

Hmmm, if I am being laid off, I would prefer Winston because I can start looking for a job and pretend I work. The economic layoff excuse does not work. If I am the one who will be safe, I would much rather prefer Latham because everybody at Winston must be shitting their pants everyday - pretty miserable place.

FYI - Latham has conducted stealth layoffs as well.

Big Public Layoff (Latham) vs. Slow Stealth Layoff (Winston)

Hmmm, if I am being laid off, I would prefer Winston because I can start looking for a job and pretend I work. The economic layoff excuse does not work. If I am the one who will be safe, I would much rather prefer Latham because everybody at Winston must be shitting their pants everyday - pretty miserable place.

FYI - Latham has conducted stealth layoffs as well.

161: acknowledge the delay? that's a funny one!

What do the firms hope to gain by not informing summers of a delay in offers?

Yeah, 164, but slow stealth layoffs only work if people can find jobs within whatever time frame the firm gives them. For a lot of people, this didn't happen. I would still rather have a firm come out and say that they are doing public layoffs. If a firm/organization has problems hiring someone who was laid off, you'd probably still have a heck of a time getting a job at that firm/organization even if you were still technically employed at Winston, because everyone would assume that if you are looking to change firms in this economy, you're doing it because you were asked to leave.

Just curious - did you have a situation where the economic layoff excuse didn't work? Or are you just assuming it doesn't?

Winston's wordgames are ridiculous. Elie, can you make a list of shame on the front page of ATL and keep Winston on there until we hear from them?

Was Partner Emeritus shitcanned from Winston, or is he still in jail from his illicit "evening" with Rick of Rick's Cabaret fame?

164, stealth layoffs suck when they trickle because you will never know when the ax will fall. And you'll be too busy trying to keep your job to hunt for a new one.

170,

That would explain Winston's bottom of the barrel ranking in the associate satisfaction survey.

169: PE is still trying to wrap his head around the fact that he's now considered a sex offender under PA law for his public rump wrangling with Rick.

169/172: PE was a good bottom.

Yours,
Rick

All of the layoff decisions are made by Chicago, and they fired a LOT of people in the satellite offices in an effort to protect their Chicago babies. What this has led to in New York is associates who bill ridiculous amounts and work every weekend because they are swamped. New York wants the first years to start earlier than January but Chicago has said no because they have no work for their first years. New York is SWAMPED.

New York=Profitable with tons of business. Chicago=A Mess.

It's really sad that New York firing decisions are made by Chicago, because NY is keeping Winston afloat.

A house divided will not stand. Winston will implode in due time.

174,

That's really sad. Partners really are shi%%y managers. Is NY thinking about seceding? Seems like it would be for the better.

As a former King &Spalding associate, I can honestly say this firm was the worst place I have ever worked at -- not just worst law firm, but worst workplace period. I thank God every day that I no longer work there or have to list them as my employer. The firm is grossly mismanaged, compounding repeated terrible decision-making with a dog eat dog culture (a bunch of independent contractors sharing space to reduce overhead) that makes the firm's touted "no jerk" policy look pathetic and ridiculous. I have painted my description of King &Spalding with a broad stroke because although there are some good people at the firm, these few individuals are, unfortunately, not in positions of authority, so they are unable to control the wretched decisions made at the top. I would NEVER recommend this firm to any client, much less anyone looking to begin their career here.

WinsTTTon & STTTrawn

LOL at people arguing for Keynesian economics. Let's see how well your bullshit works out after this administration.

LOL at the success of the trolls. Winston people need to hit the comments more often.

That is all.

Winston was a no-class, all-about-the-bucks Chicago firm in the 90s. Nothing has changed, except they have a few more offices open now.

Seriously, people, get out of biglaw as fast as you can. It is a diseased form of existence.

This just in: no offers for all.

180--Your second paragraph is overbroad. Many of us in Biglaw have had fulfilling, lucrative careers and not been strangers to our families or worked 2,400-3,000 hours per year. Many have not been so fortunate, and feel the law was a big career mistake, if not a "diseased existence." The same can be said, both good and bad, about all professions. So spare us and the law students who visit this sight the categorical statements about the profession--while your experience was bad, that is not true of all lawyers in Biglaw.

181 - i really hope you are just kidding --

Man, am I glad I left. It's just a really awful place. The only thing I miss is payday pastries.

182,

Hey Tom Fitzgerald! When can we expect to hear about offers?

184. I miss the donuts and bagels, too. That's about it.

Tom I know you are reading the comments. The summers really need to know about the offers ASAP - I think you have done your financial due diligence by now.

To be clear, the W&S layoffs are not limited to associates or even income partners. Equity partners have been asked to leave with little notice. Their definition of partnership is a sad one. Elie, you should check this by seeing how many senior partners were with W&S a year ago and how many have left without the press release that would accompany a true lateral move.

To be clear, the W&S layoffs are not limited to associates or even income partners. Equity partners have been asked to leave with little notice. Their definition of partnership is a sad one. Elie, you should check this by seeing how many senior partners were with W&S a year ago and how many have left without the press release that would accompany a true lateral move.

WinsTTTon & STTTrawn.

185--As soon as i finish counting my profits.
--182

How about an ATL investigation into STROOCK?

188/189 -- can you identify office/department?

That whole place is full of douche bags. When the Chicago layoffs were going on, they called secretaries while they were on vacation and told them not to come back.

It's across all departments and levels. And summers, if you're no offered the firm is pretty much done with you. Senior associates and partners were informed not to provide references to no offered summers. Or to do so at our own risk.

Look at WinsTTTon's website udner Los Angeles. It says they have 67 lawyers. But if you go to the attorney list they only name 55 names. So, down more than 1 in 6 from the peak.

What was severance?

"Senior associates and partners were informed not to provide references to no offered summers. Or to do so at our own risk."

!!!!. Why would the firm care if an associate or partner gave a good recommendation. It's a freaking common courtesy.

Common?? I don't think so. It's pretty much industry standard to never talk to you again if you get no-offered.

199 is right. It's kind of hilarious to see people who thought you were a great worker suddenly find issues with your performance. It's the baby stealth layoff. Welcome to biglaw summers.

--- another day o' silence ---

If they were told not to provide references, does that mean the firm has already decided the offer/no-offer issue? I mean, why would they say that unless they already had their list of offer/no-offers??? TELL US!!! It was bad enough we had to watch a useless video conference, but now we're getting anxious from all this waiting!

Are they waiting until they lock in the next summer class before they reveal the offer rate?

Wait- how did Winston short the summer on the last paycheck? Has the firm offered any explanation or were they just hoping you wouldnt notice? All offices?

They didn't short us. We got paid twice a month instead of biweekly. Apparently that has confused the math skills of some.

omg is it really 11:00 on Friday and still nothing? Winston...wtf.

They're waiting until most of the other Chicago firms announce. They'll follow the Chicago market. They likely have summers ranked and are waiting on the other firms for the offer rate.

kirkland already gave offers -- isn't that the "market" they want to follow?

yeah, does anyone know what kirkland's offer rate was?

i think it was around 90% in chicago

"They're waiting until most of the other Chicago firms announce. They'll follow the Chicago market. They likely have summers ranked and are waiting on the other firms for the offer rate."

But... they said they were going to make offers based on their needs. You're not implying that they were being dishonest with us, are you!?

Kirkland is not necessarily the market they want to follow. Mayer is who they'll follow.

211. Yes. They were lying. Summers are ranked three ways.

1) Credentials, which is a mix of law school rank, grades, journal, etc. The exact confluence of these factors is fuzzy, though. The Stanford law review type has nothing to worry about. The slightly above median, secondary journal type at Michigan might be more concerned. As should all lower ranked schools/students.

2) Clerks returning (always jump ahead in the line in lit.)

3) Demand, which is generally in lit. and NY. DC is very, very, very slow and they've already over hired for 2010 Jan. folks.

Has anyone called and asked when to expect offers?

214 - Please do it and report back.

195 - milbank has the same policy.

and so concludes another week of silence...

Winston is horrible in many, many ways. The "free market" system is actively used to starve out associates and then lay them off for low hours. I have good authority that there are 20-25 people on the web site that no longer work there. So, yeah. Good luck kids.

Not even a courtesy email...

offers are coming as we speak.

well...i guess no call is a great sign...awesome

does anyone know what the offer rate at winston is?

221... you should have gotten a call about an hour or so ago

so no call=co offer??

no call = equity partner offer

Deferred here: The stipend is being paid out in bimonthly installments because that is how salaries are paid. Apparently, in order to give the deferred associates health insurance, they had to make us "employees."
Though, I haven't receive the first paycheck yet. Has anyone else?

226 are you a member of the class of 2009? If so, when did the deferment "officially" start? When do you think you should have received the first pay check? Has Winston been communicative with the deferred class of 2009? Or has it been simply "see you in January"?

not gonna lie, the no offer sucks. especially since they waited over 2 months to do it (classy). all things considered with this firm, however, it is kind of like the guy you aren't that interested in asking out an ugly girl instead of you. didn't like them anyway, but wtf?

what is worse than the 2+ months they took to get out offers/no-offers is the fact that they are actually bringing in a new summer class. if the firm is in bad enough shape to be no-offering large percentages of the 2009 class it shouldn't be recruiting new victims.

Anyone know a somewhat accurate offer rate in each office? Firm wide info is pretty useless.

Los Angeles was 70%

Were you told it was a no-offer, or are you assuming that based on not getting a call?

Did "no offers" get calls?

Summers from ny have not been called. Not sure if above talk is flame or if west coast has gotten early word.

Heard NOTHING yesterday. If they send a no offer via snail mail/email, that's some BS. I expect nothing less, however. If they're going to no offer without doing mid-summer, end-of-summer reviews, they at least owe a phone call no-offer.

Last year they gave out phone calls in two rounds. Here's hoping...

226 here: Yes, am class of 2009. Health insurance started as of Sept 1st. Not sure whether the first paycheck would be sent on the 1st or the 15th, though it's looking like the 15th. There has been a fairly good amount of communication with setting up insurance and direct deposit, and we were invited to meet the summers.

236,

Thanks for the info. Hopefully that's there plan again, but even if - that's some BS. Two rounds? Great idea! Make those who didn't get calls feel miserable as they hear from fellow SAs, regain some false hope, and then most likely feel miserable all over again. Yes!

Guys there have been no calls to summers in my office. People who have contacted attorney recruiting were told that it could be a few more weeks and that there was no definitive time frame. Unless one of the offices went rogue I think the above post about calls was flame.

Chicago definitely made offers.

So did NY.

Phone calls yesterday out to the LA office summers, including no offers.

239-
phone calls definitely went out to LA yesterday.

NY definitely called a bunch of people last night with offers, followed up by offer letters via email. Some didn't get called which I'd assume is an indicator of a no-offer.

As a former King &Spalding associate, I can honestly say this firm was the worst place I have ever worked at -- not just worst law firm, but worst workplace period. I thank God every day that I no longer work there or have to list them as my employer. The firm is grossly mismanaged, compounding repeated terrible decision-making with a dog eat dog culture (a bunch of independent contractors sharing space to reduce overhead) that makes the firm's touted "no jerk" policy look pathetic and ridiculous. I have painted my description of King &Spalding with a broad stroke because although there are some good people at the firm, these few individuals are, unfortunately, not in positions of authority, so they are unable to control the wretched decisions made at the top. I would NEVER recommend this firm to any client, much less anyone looking to begin their career here.

nice repost 245

Keep it classy, Winston

What was the offer rate at Winston's NY office?

How will the firm will handle compensation between graduation and January 2011. Anyone have any idea?

I'm not sure how you expect anyone to know the offer rate.

was there anyone no-offered in NYC?

I've spoken to a dozen or so summers (some from other offices) and none of them has heard anything. I guess it's possible that we all got no-offered, but I'd say it's unlikely.

This would be pretty ridiculous if they offered 80-90% with the first round of phone calls and then only offer around 30% for the second round so that it seems (at least early on that the offer rate is higher than it really is.

253,

Actually that strategy would be worse for Winston since people would assume that only those called in the first round are getting offers. Since the number of people who summered in an office is easily ascertainable, the offer rates would look much lower.

254,

that assumes people are talking with one another. Some are. but others are completely MIA. you could assume that means no offer, but that isn't necessarily right.

255,

Not sure what you mean. I'm speaking in the context of ATL reporting offer rates. 253 thought this would be a way of artificially boosting numbers, but it wouldn't since ATL could easily find out approximate numbers of summer per office. The "first round" offers divided by the summer class would yield a lower offer rate than (first + 2nd round offers)/summer class.

256,

That assumes ATL does a full post and investigation into this. Multiple rounds of offers mean it's harder to tell what the real number is. Because Ive heard roughly the 70% number, I don't think ATL will look into this too much since its a decent number in this market. Either way, the wait will be what people remember most, not the numbers

i heard AF isn't giving out offers and their previous year is still waiting in the dark. good luck people...

Not true, SF gave out some offers.

stupid fucking morons, you all sound like little bitches

260 - instead of posting your rage on anonymous message boards, next time just go rub one out. Learn to relax, dog.

I was told by the person who called me that the offer rate in Chicago is at 65%.

you know, you prepare yourself for a no-offer.... but holy fuck is it depressing

For the record, Winston appears to have lied about their stipends to the deferred. They said 15k, but there are only 9 installments of 1.5k, bimonthly starting on Sept 15. So for those of you challenged by math:
Sept 15, Sept 30, Oct 15, Oct 31, Nov 15, Nov 30, Dec 15, Dec 31, and Jan 15 = 9 payments. Actual work begins Jan 19th.

You should really do another one of these recaps on Kirkland - over 30 associates laid off in September. Almost 30% of corporate, and 50% of corporate first years. And they let go ALL of the associates in the "soft" IP group.

lol @ soft IP

264 - did somebody actually tell you this, or is it just based on the fact that they didn't send out any checks on sept 1?

My cousin was fired from there early in 2009, this garbage has been going on since at least May 2007. It was usually about 10 individuals a month at the least.

Did you miss the phone calls to the Summer Interns telling them they would not be hired?

So this latest round, we take it as they are going out in a FIRE SALE. That might be fun to watch.

I still haven't heard anything from Winston...

Winston=no class

264,

For the REAL record, W&S did not lie about stipends to its deferred class; it turns out you are just a moron:

1) W&S said that Sept. 15, and not Sept.1, was the day the first stipend check would be mailed.

2) Getting paid bi-weekly 9 times as opposed to getting a lump sum works out to the deferred associates' advantage because they will get taxed at lower rates.

3) Instead of $1,500 each check, they actually get $1,666.67. So, for those of you challenged by math, (264 included): $1,666.67 x 9 = $15,000.03. That's right, you see it too, an ADDITIONAL 3 cents per deferred associate.

For all of the W&S deferred associates out there, I say you should pool your extra 3 cents together and get 264 and all the other uninformed yet quick to comment ATL readers some better research tools.

For everyone else, here is a great rule of thumb: if you don't know what you are talking about, SHUT YOUR MOUTH (or in this case, your web browser).

My sister a non-lawyer who works for a Large Non-profit was shocked to hear me tell about people complaining about their deferment pay -- I agree -- you are getting paid for not doing anything -- in my opinion -- you should be thankful that W&S is a firm that is able to offer such a a benefit -- Remember many of your colleagues are struggling to even get an interview, let alone a callback or an offer -- take your pay with out work and stop complaining

Does anyone have real information about summer associate offer rates?

I heard 6 out of 11 in LA and 5 out of 12 in SF.

74 -- The Democratic morons who voted to repeal the Glass Steagall Act 10 years ago, actually caused the the meltdown on Wall Street

What about the DC offer rate?

Can someone tell me the offer rate for the NY office?

I THINK WINSTON IS GREAT! (OH, AND IT IS 10 PAYMENTS = $15,000, IF YOU'RE CONFUSED BY THE ARITHMETIC, YOU SHOULD CHECK WITH WINSTON BEFORE RANTING HERE). GO STRAWN!

#270 YOUR MATH IS WRONG. I'M USING ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS COOL. AS YOU SAID IN YOUR POST, "SHUT YOUR MOUTH" BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

Offer rates? Only the Winston & Strong survive!

NY went 20 out of 28

278,

This is 270. First off, my computation is correct, I just double checked it. Second, I think we both agree that W&S is making 9 payments to its deferred associates and not 10 (bi-monthly payments starting Sept. 15 and ending Jan. 15).

However, if you are arguing with me about the amount of $ per check that W&S is paying its deferred associates, I am 100% positive that I am correct. A friend of mine is a deferred W&S associate and I was at his house when his check arrived. He opened it in front of me and it was for that exact amount. I then took a calculator and punched in the equation listed in my earlier post and came to the conclusion listed in my earlier post.

Since there is no possible way that I could be incorrect, considering the fact that I have seen an actual stipend check, I would like to know what information you are basing your assertion on? Congratulations though on being confident enough to challenge someone without having anything substantial to back up your assertions.

Swing and a miss, 278.

- 270 (aka, someone smarter, more informed, but possibly less confident than 278)

"A friend of mine is a deferred W&S associate and I was at his house when his check arrived. "

Nice try.

@281. You're still wrong. Winston's paychecks trail the pay period by 2 weeks. We get our 10th installment on Jan 31. 10 x $1500 = $15,000. You can double check your "calculations" all you want, but you're still wrong. Did you ask them about that before whining? Or is it easier for you to base your life on false assumptions and then criticize others for actually getting the facts? Oh, and I'm assuming you actually meant "better informed," cause "more informed" doesn't really mean anything.

They pay checks trail the pay period by 15 or 16 days, not two weeks

They pay checks trail the pay period by 15 or 16 days, not two weeks

deferred associate here - confirming 270's math, at least for the chicago office.

also sorta silly to think that they would be dumb enough to screw new associates out of $1500 that they promised to save money.

286,

Thanks for the back-up.

278,

Booyah! Suck on that. Does it sting?

- 270/281

270/281 has been vanquished. 286 and 278 are true heroes. They shall be treated as royalty henceforth.

ALL CAPS, you are COOL, but your screaming belies your true ineptitude. Poser. Seems that calling Winston only makes you a fool.

@289. Poseur has a U in it. Jackass.