Columbia Law School Now Charges For Plastic Forks
Tuition at Columbia Law School this year is $48,004 (which doesn’t include $1,638 for health insurance and a $95 “transcript fee”). The estimated living cost for an academic year is $21,263. Putting it all together, students are looking at more than $70,000 for a year of legal education, during the worst recession in the legal industry most people can remember.
You’d think all of that would at least buy you a plastic fork at lunchtime. But you’d be wrong. Tipsters report that Columbia is now charging $.15 for plasticware in the law school cafeteria.
I’ve been doing this job for over a year now, and in that time some pretty petty cutbacks have scrawled across my inbox. But this might be the most outrageous “reverse perk” of all.
Let’s take a stroll through some other recession cutbacks.
A cursory glance at the Above the Law archives reveals some major cases of cheap behavior:
Last year, K&L Gates decided to downgrade its bathroom supplies, as if their lawyers’ desire for hygiene was really holding the firm back.
In February, McDermott Will & Emery cut off free coffee service (a step that one partner felt “sen[t] a message of desperation”).
Just a couple of weeks ago, Quinn Emanuel started charging for soda.
You know what all three of these stories have in common? They are all about law firms. You know, businesses. Run for profit.
Columbia is a school. People are paying to be there! I know it’s only $.15, but in what universe does Columbia need to get $.15 out of its students who want a freaking fork? The students are wasting spending 70 grand a year to be there already. I think Columbia could comp them a fork — hell, two forks, if that is how a guy rolls.
Moreover, tipsters remind us that the CLS just renovated its cafeteria. It’s new, it’s pretty, students are psyched about the new coffee bar — and the school wants to nickle and dime people over a piece of disposable plastic?
You know, this is too horrible. I can’t believe, I won’t believe, that a Columbia Law School official actually thought this was a good or necessary idea. Based on absolutely no information, here’s what I believe. I believe that as part of the renovation, Columbia turned management of the cafeteria over to some outside company. Happens all the time. This company just happens to have the grating policy of charging people for plastic forks. Columbia’s administration doesn’t even know about it.
At least one student doesn’t care how this state of affairs came to be. He just doesn’t want to eat with his hands:
[A]ll I know is a week or two ago, there were forks for free.
And maybe they will be again. But in the meantime, stick to sandwiches.
UPDATE: According to our covert operatives at CLS, as of yesterday there were still free chopsticks.
Earlier: K&L Gates to Nickels and Dimes
Reverse Perk Watch: McDermott ‘Sends a Message of Desperation’
Reversed Perk Watch: No Soda For You
(135) Comments
Comments
First to say WTF?
I'm not sure you know how to add 21 + 48 = 69 not more than 70
We are in an Obama led recession. It's called doing more with less. As long as anemic leadership continues to plague our nation, our economy will be in the commode. This is change and hope I eschew.
2 - Health insurance and transcript fee. Click on the link to see the math.
@2
Be nice, we know that he did much better on the English portion of the SAT than the math part.
Could be an environmental thing like having to pay for shopping bags at Ikea?
Could be an environmental thing like having to pay for shopping bags at Ikea?
don't they just steal the forks from Wendy's like everybody else?
FREE THE FORKS! FREE THE FORKS! FREE THE FORKS!
WTF 1600 bucks for health insurance? How much are they skimming off the top?
I knew I made the right choice with my full ride at Pace. I lost the scholarship because my first year's grades were 3.25 (3.3 requirement), but at least my forks are free.
Those fucks deserve it for going a shit hole like CLS.
That cafeteria is disgusting and overpriced to begin with. Anyone who chooses to eat there gets what he deserves.
We want free coffee!!
Nope, not environmental. I am a CLS student, and I was explicitly told that they needed my $0.15 because too many students were taking free plastic-ware, and they needed to keep costs down.
Anyone who complains about being charged 15 cents for anything is a sniveling pauper.
Incidentally, 15 cents is what I make in roughly one attosecond.
ok i just walked over to the "cafeteria" (and applying it to lenfest is using the term loosely) and you only have to pay $0.15 if you don't buy anything else. if you buy food, whichever implement with which you wish to eat it is included in the purchase price. freeloaders who want to steal plastic cutlery can march across the street to hamdel.
Waaah, the little lawyers don't like getting a taste of their own medicine.
Who on earth would go this TTT? Is this school even accredited by the ABA? Why would anyone go to law school in South America? Seriously, some one tell me if this school is accredited by the ABA.
P.S. - every single person who has ever commented on this site, including myself, is a complete douchebag. Go microwave your heads.
Final, incontrovertible proof that NYU > Columbia.
JaKe,
May I pleasure myself with your mouth?
Shafeef
JaKe, at that rate you make $960 an hour!
我a恨ss你l婊obs子ers
18: Something about the baby bar comes to mind...
I would rather go to Columbia than Harvard because all the chicks in Boston have a tendency to shit on themselves when they drink.
CLS to Bring Your Own Spork!!
Stick a fork in Columbia, it's done.
24
Is that why there are so many German tourists visiting Boston?
The literary gimmick of using a crossed out word to say how you really feel followed by a more neutral word is so tacky and lazy I'm not surprised Elie uses it so often.
It is my understanding that at the next Board of Trustees meeting at NYU, there will be a resolution introduced that proposes to place Purell dispensers around the campus. For $.50 you can "spritz" yourself with Purell. Consider this part of your unsubsidized healthplan to avoid the swine flu.
Fordham still has free forks! Therefore, Fordham >>> CLS?
JaKe,
It would give me pleasure to see my sperms intermingle with your nostril juices. This is ok, yes?
Shafeef
I wonder why the tuition is $46,332 as opposed to a round number.
What what?
In the butt.
That rumor about Boston chicks is horrible. And for what its worth, I have noticed a lot of German tourists in Boston too.
yuck
Shafeef-
You do realize you will have to wait until JaKe's mouth is off Partner E's nuts. Will you want him to wipe his face off after he gets his facial from PE?
Oh Shafeefy, what zany antics will you come up with next to pleasure yourself with?
32 - i think schools do this so they can pretend like their tuition is somehow tied to actual costs and that their margin isn't like 800%
Elie is an idiot.
This is a great policy. Obviously they're not trying to recoup costs. They just want to reduce unnecessary consumption - like charging for plastic bags. It will reduce waste at negligible costs. I went to CLS and paid that ridiculous tuition and could care less if they charged for silverware. I brought my own, anyway.
Way to confuse your ideologies, Elie. This is a pro-environment (i.e. liberal) policy and you're ranting about it because???
@ 18 - should be "me" not "myself"
- douchebag
@3 - You should have thought of that before you voted for the damn guy.
@3 - You should have thought of that before you voted for the damn guy.
Ha!
My tuition at a top 50 school was less than 1/2 of what Columbia is charging (really closer to 1/3), and most of it was covered by a scholarship.
A few years out now, and it only takes a visit to ATL to reassure me that my decision not to incur stupidly high levels of debt was the right one.
I agree with 38. It's to deter waste.
Five years ago, my tuition there was about 33K. How did they tack on 13G in ten years to tuition alone? I guess they are hard up because people like me fling Shizer's glossy beg letters in the trash, and instead send their extra cash to Accessgroup.
If I was looking at coming out with over 200G in debt, in this economy, with firms cutting pay, etc., I would be pretty scared. Even in an 05-06 economy, on a 10 year plan that debt service would shred a BigLaw starting salary.
If some chick from Boston ever shit on me I would punch her in the face.
NYU2L
JaKe,
May I please utilize your mouth hole as a toilet for brown trout?
Shafeef
Comment removed by moderator.
Sang the CLS lunch ladies:
Don't get me wrong
Try getting me right
Your grades are OK
But your purse is too tight
I'm looking for pound notes, loose change, bad checks, anything
Gimme some money
@42 (or thereabouts)~
No one counts after 14. It is HYS, T14, "heard of it", "the local/state school", and "utter shit".
Value your degree accordingly.
47 = GAY
WTF is a "nickle"? Fail.
I agree with @47 - "Shut the fuck you douche."
What "Obama-led recession"?
"Workers at 23 top investment banks, hedge funds, asset managers and stock and commodities exchanges can expect to earn even more than they did the peak year of 2007, according to an analysis of securities filings for the first half of 2009 and revenue estimates through year-end by The Wall Street Journal."
Cardozo still offers free plasticware, condiments, purell, and many other amenities. Why can they afford to maintain this if they receive less money per year than Columbia? It is because people running these big law schools, big firms, and the government do not know how to be cautious with money. It is why when Obama passes the healthcare legislation, our great country will go bankrupt.
Partner Emeritus will agree with me.
-54
You're right, PE. McCain would have ended the recession on January 21st. I hate you.
21's math is a bit off. At $.15/attosecond, Jake makes more dollars each hour than there are in the world.
53 - PE doesn't work on Wall St. That's why he's always b*tching about the economy.
How about reusable metal utensils that get washed a reused?
JaKe,
May I please glue your eyes closed with man spackle?
Shafeef
Get ready to start stabbing your food with toothpicks people. Consider it playtime for law students. Like fingerpainting for toddlers. It may be good practice if you need to stab someone in the back to get a job.
NYU to 4!
@5--comment of the day
Big deal...RuTTTgers Law-Newark has been doing the same thing for a year. The only difference is that they are charging a third of what Columbia is charging for forks. coincidently, they are also charging a third of the tuition and providing a third of the education.
That's nothing. Northeastern Law School costs about $67k all in, and they don't even have a coffee machine!
63
Thank you, I normally don't Elie bash, but that was a slamdunk.
-5
One of the comments above praises “top 14” law schools. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me. Why not TOP 10 or TOP 20—why 14? It seems so arbitrary! Is it because USC and UCLA want to be in the cool kid club but not be associated with unseemly Top 17 and 18 types?
As a Georgetown student, I'm more outraged by the fact that my school charges 5 dollars per transcript and that it takes at least one business day to receive said transcript.
NYU charges 5 cents for a cup if you don't buy anything
This post is ridiculous. You're looking at the policy through the entirely wrong lens. As 7 first pointed out, this is probably an environmentalism-type measure rather than a cost-savings measure. I'm a GULC student, and we've been paying 10 cents for a plastic cup (filled with water or ice or whatever) for years now, totally unrelated to any law school budget issues. This has the twin benefit sof recovering the food service vendors cost on cups full of free water and reducing the number of plastic cups used (yes, I have seen students getting water in reusable mugs in the cafeteria). And at the same time, I can get the same product that Dasani offers at a $1.39 savings.
I mean, for God's sake, do we even know that Columbia and its food service share a budget? If it's a food service contractor (as is common in university settings) this may not provide a financial benefit to Columbia at all.
I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but it's not like this is happening at HLS or YLS.
I'm too tired to call out PE (or as I like to think of him, His PEness) and his anti-Obama trolling. 56 nailed it, I think; and I go to bed every evening thanking the FSM that McCain and Caribou Barbie are NOT in the WH today. OK, I've regained my strength now; PE is not funny, his schtick is old and tired and he can suck my virtual balls. Jake, you're rapidly approaching your expiration date, too. Gawd, when the Michael Ray Richardson guy is funnier than the two of you put together, you know you're in trouble.
Stop the presses. Plastic forks cost $.15 cents. Next up, dog bites man, film at 11.
Stop the presses. Plastic forks cost $.15 cents. Next up, dog bites man, film at 11.
67 - It's because the schools currently ranked 1-14 in the US News rankings:
1. Have each been ranked 10 or higher at some point in time since US News started ranking law schools
and
2. Have each never been ranked lower than 14 since the US News law school rankings started.
UCLA, Texas, Vanderbilt, etc have never made it to 14, never mind 10. Additionally, there is a fair amount of movement in spots 8-14 over a relatively short period of time. Duke, Cornell, UVA, Michigan, Northwestern, Penn, etc all shuffle around in those spots (although Georgetown seems to always be 14 lately) . The top 14 makes more sense because it refers to a fix group of schools, where as top 10 would change pretty much every year based on relatively minor fluctuations in whatever meaningless data US News feeds into its machine.
McGeorge has free utensils, and they're the sturdy, black ones. MCGEORGE TO T1
67,
You either don't know anything about anything or went to Vandy.
Oh, wait.
76 - Canadian humour doesn't fly here son
If some chick from Boston ever shit on me I would punch her in the face.
NYU2L
Boston is a disgusting cesspool. I'd rather live in Des Moines.
Wait, wait, wait....so chicks have to take shits too??? Man, my world just came crashing down.
Penn Law mandates health insurance and charges $2300 a year. Ridiculous.
82 - is that constitutional? Serious question. T3
@81 - Its just when then they shit on other people at bars or on dates that it becomes a problem which apparently it has.
"According to our covert operatives at CLS, as of yesterday there were still free chopsticks."
This is blatantly racist. Any school that imposes such inequality based on race should lose its accreditation.
84
That's why I stay at the Ritz when visiting and ask for rubber sheets for the girls I pick up at the bars.
Seriously, Elie, this policy is not rant-worthy. Surcharging disposables (shopping bags, flatware, coffee cups, etc.) makes economic and environmental sense and is getting more and more common.
Given that there's now more plastic in the oceans than plankton, we're all better off if CLS students suck it up and keep an extra fork or two from home in their locker.
Maybe it's a way of making back their profits from the free coffee from earlier and the year. Don't forget, there's free cookies/coffee in big warren.
82, at least you get a discount on Nittany Lions tickets.
75--
A good and well-needed observation on this blog. US News is self-perpetuating elitist junk science created to maintain the dominance of the incestuous anti-meritocracy.
To explain the voodoo machine: By virtue of thriving through donations from trust-funded cult criminals of an earlier era (who never paid income tax on their blood money to boot), FTTs are honored as the "best" law schools. US News takes polls of predominantly law professors and BigLaw cogs, most of whom are from FTTs. When asked what law schools are the best, they choose FTTs. About as predictable (and valid) as asking tobacco companies whether nicotine is addictive.
Why do we still tolerate this ipse dixit junk science? Because the anti-meritocratic FTT elite can only maintain their power through perpetuating the illusion that an FTT education is worth more than the diningware in the cafeteria. Non-FTTs in Congress willingly perpetuate this prevarication because self-aggrandizing FTT hacks who take money for enabling the modern-day criminal cult enterprise donate heavily to their campaigns.
76 - free fountain drinks during finals FTW
Res Ipsa,
May please use your mustache to pleasure the under side of my balls as well as my freshly shorn taint?
Shafeef
THIS IS SO TRULY FORKED UP!!!!!!!!!!
85, see Washington v. Davis.
I used to think that the middle class was going under because of the cost of 1) health care, 2) higher education, and 3) housing. All have increased well above the rate of inflation since I graduated from a middle tier law school over 30 years ago at a tuition cost of under $ 3,000.
Inflation at law schools in particularly unjustifiable since (unlike medical schools), salaries and personnel costs are the principal cost components, with relatively modest capital costs. In fact, a law school is a profit center for most universities which has led to many universities opening law schools.
Additionally, most law professors have lucrative consulting practices that augment their inflated salaries. (Of course, law faculties always have the excuse that they must have high salaries so that they can have status comparable to partners in Big Law and so that they can attract "qualified" attorneys to turn to otherwise low paying teaching jobs).
The bottom line has been hyper inflation in law school tuitions which has led to more hyper inflation.
The hyper inflation in law school costs helped sustain hyper inflation in law firm personnel costs which in turn help sustain hyper inflation in the cost in billable hours which then encourage potential clients to turn to small, less costly firms or to in house services.
In recent years, I have applauded the fact that George Mason Univ Law School kept its tuition down to a modest level.
It's great for the environment though. Bring you own fork if .15 is too much to pay
David Saint Hubbins = Worst ATL Character
"as of yesterday there were still free chopsticks". freakin' bigots.
"Based on absolutely no information, here’s what I believe. I believe that..." Now that's journalism at its best...
How do you report an environmentally friendly step as the school being desperate for money? That's a Fox News level spin.
This is bullshit. Columbia students need a break since most of us will either graduate (a) unemployed, or (b) working for substantially less than we anticipated when we enrolled. Recruitment season has been a bloodbath. Even many those who have jobs will be working for shitlaw, and nearly all of us will owe something to the tune of $150,000 for a fucking worthless J.D.
Do they charge double for sporks?
We've got non-plastic cutlery. Columbia to TTT, SMU on the rise.
SMU 1L
Here @ WUSTL we're still enjoying free beer/wine/snacks during Friday happy hour in the law school courtyard. On top of that, half of us are on full tuition scholarships. We won't get NY BigLaw, but what we've got seems like a pretty sweet deal.
Here @ WUSTL we're still enjoying free beer/wine/snacks during Friday happy hour in the law school courtyard. On top of that, half of us are on full tuition scholarships. We won't get NY BigLaw, but what we've got seems like a pretty sweet deal.
Dear CLS: Please add $37.50 to the annual tuition and start giving out free forks again.
Dear ATL: How is it possible that there are more than 100 comments and no one has mocked Elle-Lee for calling the worthless drivel that he writes: "a job."
101 - don't tell me, times are tough for Columbia Law students and a tiny bailout will save you...lets go with "Forks for Dorks"
@101 -
Pansy.
You made the choice; you deal with the consequences.
FYI, the microwave in the student loan now has a coin slot. $.25 for every minute.
FYI, the microwave in the student loan now has a coin slot. $.25 for every minute.
The problem with the pro-environmental argument is that it is easily solved by providing metal silverware instead of plastic. Why not do that? Is it too expensive? If so, I refer you back to the rant on exactly what $70K buys you these days.
--Elie
This blog no law no more, just crap, just gay. David, you getting too gay.
-Mom
ATL is now charging staff and editors $1.00 per Hostess Cupcake.
111 - Oh Elie, they're only environmentally aware enough to take .15 from you, not enough to wash dishes. I'd think you, of all people, would recognize a self-serving agenda and its selective application...
Penn Law is charging $0.35 for cups in the new cafeteria. Also, Penn student health insurance costs $2,642.00.
My law school doesn't have a cafeteria...
116 - really? Seems like most cafeterias have a law school these days.
CLS 3L without a job here.
I just wish I could get my money back and forget about the mistake of going to law school.
CLS has been a leader in the "negative frills" approach to education for decades, is good to see them finally getting some recognition.
118 - you and 100,000 other students in U.S. law schools right now. Welcome to the royally fucked club.
Elie, could we forget about the sporks for a second and focus on the real fucking story - the fact that it costs 200,000 dollars to go to law school when as recent as 2002, tuition was around 30k/year? It's not just CLS - HLS, NYU, fucking Northwestern tuition is over 46k.
118 - must be just you, your website says 98% of Columbia law graduates are immediately employed and make $145K/year.
"must be just you, your website says 98% of Columbia law graduates are immediately employed and make $145K/year."
Psst, schools fudge their employment numbers.
And Columbia is hardly the only one or the most egregious offender.
I go to CLS and they do not charge for the forks.
90 / Res Ipsa
What the hell is a "FTT"?
Everybody is well aware of the numerous problems with the US News rankings. The question(addressed by 75) was why T14 instead of T10 or T20. The question assumes you're using some kind of ranking system (flawed though it may be), or else why T14 instead of some other number of top schools makes no sense.
The other day a friend of mine at CLS told me he was interviewing with Anderson Squonquisadaire & Lepp's Newark office. I just thought, "what a lucky guy."
--Cornell envious
Stop the presses. Plastic forks cost $.15 cents. Next up, dog bites man, film at 11.
125--
FTT = first tier trash. I assumed that by using the nomenclature of this blog's commenters it would become more understandable.
FTT designation is primarily based upon the de facto ranking system created by the elitist, self-entitled megalomaniac commenters on this blog (which I imagine are ultimately not a substantial number of the commenters, just the loudest and most arrogant). Usually I pick on Harvard, as it is the most egregious placer of the self-perpetuating, incestuous BigLaws enabling the criminal cult enterprise, but many others have blood on their hands as well.
If you have any questions as to what constitutes FTT, ask said avatars of hubris what is not "TTT," and you will be pretty close to the answer. Their close-minded, simple brains generally can't transcend two categories of law schools--good ones and TTT--and, you'll find, rank even more arbitrarily than US News.
118 here.
The number I've heard is 90 CLS 3Ls without jobs. Don't know if it's true. Those stats, 122, were from before the economy collapsed.
oh come on, man! it's an environmentally friendly policy to get people to bring forks. what's so terrible about that?
I hate when people count legal expenses as part of the expense of their legal (or any) education. You'd have to spend money on rent, food, and other necessities regardless of whether you're in school, so stop counting that as part of education expenses!
By contrast, a law firm would charge its clients $2.50 for plasticware for a conference room lunch.
We do not use plasticware with our clients. They have fingers.
That's pretty crappy. But maybe it'll mean less plastic will be thrown away and end up in burgeoning landfills.
I'm just not so sure the environment was the intended beneficiary of that one...
--FlawLESS
A good post, very helpful information.
http://www.lowerpainback.com/