First!!! this is situation is

Did Elie really just include Northeastern but forget BC and BU?

Right now my prospective JD is worth Zero. No joke. No lie.

-T-20 3L

Southern New England/UMass Law
would be in addition to at least SEVEN others:
Boston College Law
Boston University Law
Harvard Law
Northeastern Law
New England School of Law
Suffolk Law School
(Western New England School of Law - Springfield, MA)

Elie didn't forget BC and BU. He ate them.

PE just failed the PA bar exam. Now Discover Card will never collect on his delinquent account.

The main reason it isn't accredited is its lack of a decent library. The reason UMass hasn't purchased it yet (the idea was floated two years ago) is that it would take $40 million to make the improvements needed to bring it up to the ABA's accredidation standards.

RE: BC and BU. I think Elie was just putting a little jab at Harvard in the post. Considering that any student willing to attend a non-accredited school has a limited ceiling, he focused on the tier 4 schools and threw Harvard in there as a dig to both Harvard and to the students that can't get in there.

Well played Elie, well played.

Elie, you're a bit off the mark on this one.

UMass has the resources to get the school accredited. It will be a stalwart T4, but it will get accredited with the UMass system's resources.

It will fill the niche of a lower cost option, which many would be lawyers DO take, especially those looking to go into public interest. Going to a T3/T4 doesn't matter as much in that line of work, and for those that aspire to do it, keeping their costs down is a priority.

I haven't done much research, but I'm going to guess that Suffolk and New England don't exactly have much in the way of LRAP. No LRAP plus 30+k per year to attend equals little public interest option.

Take my opinion for what it's worth, but I'm a career changer who went at night to a US News T2 / ATL TTT. It was private, too, but since I didn't forego any income and had an actual career going for me, I could afford it. Otherwise, there's no way I could have been able to pay my loans, mortgage, and live comfortably on my government salary like I do now.

I am a fairly entrenched libertarian, but one place I don't mind my taxes being spent is on public education. As long as the bar is a state institution, every state should have one viable public law school.

The reason the school isn't accredited is that the ABA is engaged in an illegal conspiracy to limit the number of accredited law school graduates to five times what the market will support.

If it wasn't for this little monopolist scam being run by the ABA, we would have 300,000 law school graduates each year instead of a mere 45,000.

5 - Don't forget Massachusetts School of Law (yet another unaccredited TTT... does Mass. rival CA in the number of these operating in the state?)
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/06/now_law_schools_are_spawning_c.php

If each licensed Mass. attorney contributed a one-time payment of $500, they could come up with over $22 Mil, buy the school and knock it down. I'm thinking this is an investment that would pay dividends over a lifetime...

Thanks @9. But I changed it a little to try to make it more obvious.
--Elie

10 - How are you a libertarian AND work for the government? I thought the primary goal of all libertarians who get government jobs is to find a way to eliminate their own job...

#4: While it's a difficult market, I have a lot of trouble believing you cannot land anything. I'm going to guess that you've never worked before, going from undergrad to law school to the great beyond. Please don't take this negatively.

You need acquire some other skill. Its not that this market has no demand for attorneys, its that law firms have no demand for attorneys. Businesses and government do hire lawyers that also know how to do something else. Learn a product, a mission, or a service, acquire some of the core capabilities necessary to execute, and package it with your law degree. You'll have more options.

I summered in house, and my GC told me flat out, he isn't going to hire a lawyer that doesn't also know his product and his business. I ended up leaving for government, but the same applies here.

"I mean no offense by this, but isn’t the Southern New England School of Law not a very good law school? There’s a reason the school isn’t accredited, right?"

****

This sentence gave me a headache.

Of course, as our hero Milton Friedman pointed out, the public would be best served by killing off all accreditation and all certification of professionals, including lawyers, physicians, nurses and plumbers.

Accreditation and certification only serve to protect members of the guild from competition and discipline, whether professional or that of the market.

Try complaining about fraudulent treatment by a licensed practitioner to the respective licensing board. Useless! I've tried and had to sue the dentist to recover for the fraud.

I think MA students should be given the opportunity to go to an in state law school. The overpriced SHITTY law schools in MA have a strangle hold on the students here. If you had three shitty schools to pick from (say, hypothetically, Western New England School of Law, New England School of Law and this new UMass School of Law) and ONE of those schools is public and much cheaper, wouldn't it force the other shitty schools to compete in terms of tuition? Or granting scholarships?

Also, UMass Amherst is about $12,000 in tuition per year (granted this is the undergrad program) where New England School of Law charges $38,000 for its shitty degree. Even if the UMass Law School jacked its tuition up to $20k per year, that's a considerable savings.

And perhaps in 20 years or so, that UMass Law School will actually be accredited and, dare I say, ranked nationally. (Ok, that last bit is far fetched, but I bet it will be accredited....eventually)

I'd like to see a survey on the percentage of grads of schools such as this who pass the bar (1st or 2nd try, say) v. those of other lower-tier-but-accredited schools.

What does law school teach? Some doctrine, but not a whole lot that's actually useful. How to write and think "like a lawyer," as Professor Kingsfield put it? Maybe... but does that come only with accredidation? Learning how to learn? If you haven't figured that out in four years of undergrad, it's too late now.

In most cases, you go from L1 to L3 to A1 to A3 -- associate status, do nothing useful, some research maybe, draft a few things that get rewritten, and overall serve an apprenticeship that really teaches you to be an attorney. Would a tier 3 or 4 school be that much different?

I'd like to see a survey on the percentage of grads of schools such as this who pass the bar (1st or 2nd try, say) v. those of other lower-tier-but-accredited schools.

What does law school teach? Some doctrine, but not a whole lot that's actually useful. How to write and think "like a lawyer," as Professor Kingsfield put it? Maybe... but does that come only with accredidation? Learning how to learn? If you haven't figured that out in four years of undergrad, it's too late now.

In most cases, you go from 1L to 3L to 1A to 3A -- associate status, do nothing useful, some research maybe, draft a few things that get rewritten, and overall serve an apprenticeship that really teaches you to be an attorney. Would a tier 3 or 4 school be that much different?

"But while we hearing what acquiring the Southern New England School of Law will cost..."

Awesome.

10 is right. A middling private law school (of which I am a graduate althought thankfully before the legal bubble burst) is not worth it at 25k a year or more in tuition. However those that wish to get a JD to improve their job prospects etc. but that don't wish to be saddled with six figure debt could really benefit from a lower cost yet quality legal degree. UMass has the ability to offer that, I don't know why we would be against it. I hear the argument about too many lawyers but to me that falls on the licensing authorities to police. If people want to take their shot at the profession and are doing so in an economically sensible way I think that is a good thing.

GINSBURG TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL

GET ON IT LOSERS

#15:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I provide for the common defense in a non-military capacity. Even with my leanings, I have no moral concern with the duties that I perform. Don't worry, I'm not some guy down at the SEC ensuring market (in)efficiency!

- 10

An effin law blog that reports this shit instead of a SCOTUS justice in the hospital. You suck.

HEY SCOTUS JUSTICE IN THE HOSPITAL, NO STORY?

"some schools in Boston" - great fix. Except that Boston College Law School is in Newton, while both Suffolk and Northeastern are in Boston.
Dumbass

How is CNBC scooping you on Ginsburg?

Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence could easily pass a bar exam with about 6-12 months of directed study. Once passed, knowledge of the law is not all that important since most judges are so lazy they don't have a clue - at least in state courts.

I'm a libertarian in a gov't (judiciary) job. Just because I think the evidence is overwhelming that every government program accomplishes the opposite of its intended effect doesn't mean I have any qualms about where I work.

Mass-holes have a public school option. Under the New England Compact, they can attend the University of Connecticut at a cost some where between what Conn. residents and non-Conn. residents pay. (Does anyone know the exact amount?) UConn is ranked 52 by USNWR, is accredited by the ABA, and (according to recent reports) a great place to run a drug smuggling business (http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/law_student_of_the_day_john_be.php)

I think it would be a good thing for UMass to take this school over. Law students should have an affordable option for law school. This is especially true in Mass given that the private schools charge you an arm and a leg and many of them really aren't worth it. Students with less debt would be more likely to go into the underserved areas of law on a more permanent basis because they likely would not have an extra 90-120k or more worth or debt that you'd rack up at some of the other Mass schools.

It seems to me that places like Suffolk are worried because they would either have to drop teir tuition considerably or possibly go out of business. Either of those options is good in my opinion.

I think it would be a good thing for UMass to take this school over. Law students should have an affordable option for law school. This is especially true in Mass given that the private schools charge you an arm and a leg and many of them really aren't worth it. Students with less debt would be more likely to go into the underserved areas of law on a more permanent basis because they likely would not have an extra 90-120k or more worth or debt that you'd rack up at some of the other Mass schools.

It seems to me that places like Suffolk are worried because they would either have to drop their tuition considerably or possibly go out of business. Either of those options is good in my opinion.

26, 27, etc. - Refresh your browser. Story went up at 10:51.

35

Go fuck yourself

Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:51 AM - By David Lat

-27

The article clearly states that the tuition would be $24k/year. A significantly better deal than Suffolk or NESL.

UMass would have to control costs on tuition for this to be worthwhile. Not sure if people have noticed but the cost of a public education has been increasingly on the rise. To me this is a crime. We pay so much in taxes to support a bloated government and one tried and true benefit they could provide - decent public universities - is always one of the first things to suffer. We need to realign our priorities.

John Marshall Law School tried to do this with University of Illinois in Chicago a few years back.

If Massachusetts wants to get in the law school biz, why not use eminent domain power to take over Harvard? Cost would be minimal as expert could project value based on multiplier of Elie's legal contribution.

Mass. has way too many law schools and lawyers already!

MA should open this law school to provide a lower cost public option and then start a petition for the licensed lawyers of the state to buyout the TTT privates and shut them down forever-eg Suffolk.

Who owns the school? Where does the purchase money go besides paying off debt?

Any answer that isn't a negative number is incorrect.

Mystal did not pass the bar.

Mystal is an obese race bating Walrus.

That is all.

$22 mil is a steal.

Stony Brook is trying to buy Touro Law for $54 million.

If you are part of a saturated profession and want to channel your neurotic self-hatred into destroying the profession that has disappointed you or laid you off as quickly as possible, probably the best strategy is supporting the accreditation of more bad law schools. Hell, of more law schools period. That way, the value of every law degree will decline even more, and it will be impossible for the next several classes to get hired doing anything other than contract doc review for the Japanese. While you've got the profession back peddling, follow up with a superman punch and then its the high kick.

There's already 1 lawyer for every 150 people in Massachusetts, 3rd worst ratio in the country.

George Mason U bought the International School of Law, which was a private institution that had recently attained provisional accreditation from the American Bar Association (ABA) in 1979. By 1981 the law school, now known as the George Mason University School of Law (GMUSL), gained full ABA accreditation. Mason is doing nicely in the league tables - so this path has worked pretty well in the past. dave.s.

George Mason U bought the International School of Law, which was a private institution that had recently attained provisional accreditation from the American Bar Association (ABA) in 1979. By 1981 the law school, now known as the George Mason University School of Law (GMUSL), gained full ABA accreditation. Mason is doing nicely in the league tables - so this path has worked pretty well in the past. dave.s.

How nice. Let's subsidize more 4T law students into a flooded market. Today, a RN makes more than most lawyers will ever make. The nurse practitioner or physician assistant make $140K a year plus in Massachusetts. Most future lawyers will be lucky to make half that. In this profession (business?), you are just a fungible billing unit. After a few years, you are discarded and new meat is brought in.

Borrowing from Mastercard - A TTT school is priceless.

Do Massachusetts taxpayers need to spend their tax dollars on this?

34- If they have low debt, will that mean they will not be able to accept a biglaw job offered to them, with their taxpayer-subsidized diploma in hand, keeping jobs away from grads with debt who did not raid the taxpayer trough.

32, Tuition is like $20k for 1L and then the in-state rate for the last two years. Also, the compact also extends to UMaine Law (the other public law school in New England), and is open to folks from MA, RI, NH, and VT. Interesting that of the six states w/o law schools, four are in New England. However, UCONN ain't that easy to get into. I applied in '03 with a 165 and a 3.35 from one of the top liberal arts schools in the country (one notorious NOT having grade inflation), and did not get in. Wound up at Northeastern [which has the fucking stones to call itself "the #1 public interest law school in the US" despite a life-crushing $65,000/year student budget], and have been unemployed since graduation in motherfucking 2007. Sucks for me.

Um, how does anyone expect UMass to pay for this? They can't even fund their "flagship" undergraduate campus.

Can someone please explain to me who goes to an unaccredited law school and what they do with his or her degree?

56 - show the new graduates from accredited law schools the way to the unemployment office?