PE is poetry in motion.

shit, I can't get first for the life of me. I'm so ttt.

Mystal's moobs are freaking huge today. New bra, Elie?

Firstymcfisterson, this is your boss, you need to get off of this wretched blog and get to work or I'll throw your ass on the street. Your constant reloading of this website has significantly hindered your work performance. You live in a virtual anonymous world. You have mental health issues.

Who cares about the salary of lawyers? The real question is whether they have to eat kosher pizza or not.

Firsty McFirsterson is sitting in antitrust...unemployed...not too worried about the boss...though maybe he should be

My feeling on this subject is that no risk should be compensated with no reward. In-house attorneys are nothing more than de-clawed, de-fanged and neutered housecats that could not cut it in the wild. They should be relegated to a ho-hum lifestyle that includes wearing dockers, capezios and driving Volvo station wagons, 5 series BMWs, or small Audi cars. What a waste of a law degree.

Yeah because #8 knows anything about risk.

The average doesn't mean much as it takes into account the huge salaries of GCs and their seconds in command, which skews the average to the right. Dont expect to make that much in-house for many years. But its a great gig if you can get it.

Partner Emeritus, this is the third time I've asked you to call my office. I will not be able to continue filling your Viagra and Namenda prescriptions unless you contact me. I've called your pharmacist to advise her that you are not to be given any medication until you come to my office.

Whenever I need reassurance about my choice to move in-house, I visit this blog.

#10 is the only comment worthy of posting. 1-9 stop wasting ...

PE,

[after you graduate and get a job], when you're sitting in your office on a beautiful Saturday afternoon dealing with your third heart attack and your fourth divorce, I'll be sitting on the beach listening to some groovy tunes, throwing back a couple cold ones and taking in fresh clean air that doesn't smell like stale, clogged HVAC filters. Look out the window and wave at me (and the life that passed you by).

But don't spend too much time, because I'll need that project done before I get back in to the office on Monday morning, chump.

-In house lawyer

PE, nice to see that you have such contempt for your clients, i.e., those who paid your bloated fees for all these years (that is, if you really are as wealthy and successful as you claim to be).

Not an in-house lawyer

Based on the replies here, it is clear to see the false sense of self-importance in-house attorneys assign to themselves. In-house counsel do not sign my checks. That would be the corporations that employ the in-house attorneys. In-house attorneys are at-will employees that can be fired at any time. Sure they make recommendations but ultimately management and the board make the hard decisions. In the end, in-house attorneys are nothing more than hapless housecats that need real attorneys to tackle their employers' legal needs. That is where I have traditionally come in and that is all.

I've been in house for a couple of years now. Its not the salary and bonus that are the most important thing. I love being home at 6 p.m. every night. I love taking all four weeks of vacation. The low stress helps, too. But, the absolute best thing about this is that I get to order around the partners at my old firm!

Duh, the PE character is just as fictional as non-GC in-house lawyers making $250,000 a year, or for that matter sitting on a beach instead of in the office.

-in house lawyer

If you are in a Fortune 500 company and one level below the GC or DGC, you can make $250K in base salary, depending on the company, industry and location.

18,

There are at least 8-10 lawyers in my Fortune 500 company that make considerably more than $250,000. They usually rank 1 to 2 steps below the GC level. Some of them live in fly over states and live like kings.

how about their bonuses - if any

Doctor Emeritus--

You forget to mention to Partner and JaKe Emeritus their Valtrax prescriptions are ready as well. Incidently, the results came back, turns out they have the same strain, not sure if they got if from the same prostitute or from blowing each other, curious situation, no?

-Your Secretary at the Office.

of course it must be nice for all these in-house counsels to get deferred big law associates 'volunteering' their time and working 40 hour weeks for them for free...

I've been in-house for two years after several in private practice. Compensation two steps below GC? I'll break it down for you: Annual salary: 200K. Annual bonus: varies based on performance (mine and the company's), but last year it was 28% cash bonus. Stock: same as cash bonus, so last year stock equal to 28% annual pay (vests in 3 years). Are you doing the math? Also: 1:1 401K match, vests right away. Plus, three weeks vacation. Did i tell you about the business class travel?

PE is not only fictional, he is delusional. I'm sure corporate management and the boards of directors were meeting regularly over whether to retain him, reviewing his timesheets, and deciding how much of his bills to pay. That's much more important than running their core business. Clueless idiot.

Based on my limited experience (1L summer with a GC's office, worked closely with my company's in-house counsel at my pre-law school gig), in-house counsel is a great position. Almost all the people I worked with had done big law first, but had no interest in going back.

At smaller companies you have the opportunity to be a true generalist (i think that's a plus, but it's probably not for everyone). And if you get into a growth industry or a pre-IPO company, there is a real opportunity to score HUGE on stock options.

OK, first of all average salaray numbers are completely meaningless for in house counsel because they do not include stock. Our effective compensation is probably twice the numbers here at the higher levels, but things like stock options got killed last year, so that was a 50 percent drop. But for the right people, its a great gig.

Mind you, The economy is still contracting, and in house is not exactly secure -- even for those of us in a solid company making money. Bonuses have been 40 percent of our no stock compensation past few years and will be zero. (So seventy five percent effective pay cut !!)

No pay raises this year. No prospect for one. Continuing layoffs and lots of pressure to contract further since we are overhead.

Two levels below General Counsel and up had five percent cuts in salary. No hiring (although the places like Purchasing are hiring law schooled and even practicing attorneys as Contract Managers for 80k or less).

On the plus side, while we have no private jets and kids may attend public schools, at our company the job is really fun. We have lots of parties, and as Elie suggests, never work nights or on weekends. We DO drive Volvos -- on the other hand the work is really boring and pedantic, we have to sit in our offices whether we have to work or not, and we only get five weeks of vacation a year.

Best of all, we get to use the weak economy as an excuse to no longer have to hire the CEO's dad, or college roommate as counsel and we can go for good local high value counsel.

After 4:00, so don't expect too many more posts from in-house types.

In-house here in Flyover land. Eight years out of law school. Two steps below GC at Fortune 500. Base of 200k, cash bonus (depends on my and company's performance (09 is a good year) of 40-55%, equity is not all that great - few thousand options a year so far, three weeks vacation and generally out by 6:00 to 6:15.

As others have implied, talking about average inhouse salaries is like talking about average law firm salaries, but without distinguishing between years out of law school or even between associates and partners. Moreover, unlike firms, inhouse salaries vary widely among industries.

While some inhouse gigs are the really the dream jobs you hear about others are ridiculously boring and/or require more work hours than a law firm.

That being said, as an inhouse attorney celebrating my 1st year (after 6 years in biglaw), I ended up with one of the dream gigs. Always leave before 5:30pm, can spend half my day on the interent with no remorse (if things are slow), my boss doesn't even count vacation days (but makes sure others cover for me when I'm on vacation), etc.

I'm making maybe 5-10% in total comp less than I would have as a "non-income" partner at my old firm (Biglaw in flyover country), but I can't even explain how much better my quality of life is. I get called for jury duty more than I work weekends. Work may not be always as exciting as the firm, but is the work really that exciting at biglaw? (No, I didn't think so.)

No longer an Outhouse Counsel

Assistant GCs of IP at large tech companies are making low 200's, plus 20-30% cash bonus (in good years), plus 20% stock. One step down (equivalent to senior associate positions) make below 200 base, and two steps down (junior or mid) are down at 150 base.

12 nailed it.

Finally an interesting post, it's good to learn not only of the contempt which PE and his peers hold us in, but also to get some numbers as to what others are making. ATL has certainly published breathlessly about law firm salaries, but has been strangely quiet when it comes to inhouse ones. I'm one step below GC, and have base of 250k, cash bonus of 25% and typically get stock vesting over 3 years of around 50k per year. I also get perks like a company car (it is indeed the BMW 5 that PE mentioned) plus fuel card and private school tuition for my kids, so all in I'm getting around 400-450k all in. Oh, and I have a contract that guarantees 12 months' pay for any termination other than for serious cause.

So... my question is, am I underpaid? Overpaid? About right?

33--where can I send my resume?

--9 years out, 20 years closer to the grave

There are lots of well-discussed intangible benefits to moving inhouse, and we all know about the better work-life balance, complete lack of late nights/weekends in the office, etc. But what you'll never appreciate unless you experience it just what a glorious feeling it is to NEVER have to do anything remotely approaching business development EVER again. It's only when you move inhouse that you realize that in private practice you were first and foremost a hustler, shamelessly chasing work wherever you thought you could find it, and only secondly a lawyer when you serviced whatever it was you managed to bring in.

Great to see what other in-house lawyers are making.... I am 4 years out of law school at a fortune 500 in California after 3 years at Skadden...two levels from GC. Base is $140,000 and bonus was 100% last year... no 401(k) and no equity component....

Sounds like in-house trumps fed govt...I'm 5yrs out making about $150k in Chicago fed govt with no bonus to speak of and an upper limit of about $210k in '09 dollars...but I really love the work and the autonomy and not being a salesperson.

35, you nailed it. I'm a second-year, already looking forward to the day I cross over.

Hmm. As an in-houser, I am all for extolling tangibles and intangibles that come along with an in-house gig. But I think there's some inflation going on here. 100% bonuses (in 2008, of all years), tuition, and 5-series BMWs are hardly the norm among in-housers.

Are any of the in-housers who are posting these high compensation packages litigation folks? Or are these great gigs only for the corporate types?

Also, it would be helpful if people could generally indicate how they got their gigs -- connections, responding to a job posting, etc.

40, my personal experience was that I worked as outside counsel for my current employer a few years doing non-corporate work (antitrust), and was then gently nudged by the client to broaden my horizons and use the specific knowledge I had learned about their business to do other types of things, including eventually leading complex commercial negotiations. My firm (a snobby NY-based one) didn't like this, as it broke the specialism model it was using, and I didn't like it (because I actually bought into the BS the firm was selling and didn't think I was qualified to do anything outside of my narrow box), but as the client insisted - and was paying - the client got what it wanted. So, after a few more years of that, when more and more matters were flowing through me and a senior level slot opened up internally, I was invited in as a known quantity, and given the personal relationships I had developed with senior management over the years I was very comfortable taking the job.

Now that I'm on the inside, and making hiring decisions, I can confirm that we really like to bring in not only people with quality big-firm experience, but also those whom we identify as being able to handle a wider range of issues than would be encountered in a cloistered firm environment, which is typically done through working with them on different matters... and what is just as important as the results are seeing how they approach the work. If you do feel that you are being groomed by a client for an eventual inhouse role my advice would be to seize the opportunity, as even the eventual decision is that you're not going to move having a broader skill set is ultimately going to benefit you no matter where you work.

40, 24 here. There are many ways to move in-house. I targeted a company (not a client), networked connections there, and they called me when something opened up. Took about 10 months. My advice, if you don't have steady and meaningful client contact, get out of your office and connect with in-house counsel some other way. Its like trying to land clients, but in reverse. Good luck.

36--What industry are you in?

Hey ATL--it would be great it you could start an open thread for inhousers to post salary (along with maybe (a) years out, (b) industry and public or private, (c) location, etc.)

Thanks 41 and 42. I'm an antitrust associate, but I haven't had sustained contact with a single client. Both of you have given me some very helpful thoughts on how I might be able to position myself for an in-house job.

--40

Im 4 years out, IP counsel at a major tech company in CA, and making ~175 base and ~50k bonus on a good year, with pretty generous stock options and benefits. Total comp is right around where it would have been at the firm, if you expect, as I did, that firm bonuses would be shit this year. Of course, I go home by 6, do pointy-haired-boss work all day (that is, sit in meetings and nod), and get to order around the partners from my old firm. Also, no billable hours. Ever. In-house life is the good life.

Silicon Valley in house here. I'm making under market at 180k plus bonus and options 7 years out, esp. since there will be no bonus this year, but I'm doing interesting deal work, no less so than when I was at my V20 firm, have stellar benefits including 401k matching and the best health insurance I've ever had by far, 4 weeks of vacation I can actually take plus comp time whenever I think it reasonable, and work from home most of the time.

You in-housers are makin' me jealous! Any advice on how to land a Director of Lit type of in-house position? There don't seem to be many of them around...

This is 36 - I work in the real estate industry - which should add some more mystery to receiving a 2008 bonus. I have a lit background and no several other litigators that have been able to land great in-house positions that are non-lit related. All of my work in-house thus far has been very much that of a generalist and work hand in hand with management in handling day-to-day operations. I got the job because I was at the right place at the right time and was actively looking to leave. I echo the comments about the lifetstyle improvement.

This is 36 - I work in the real estate industry - which should add some more mystery to receiving a 2008 bonus. I have a lit background and no several other litigators that have been able to land great in-house positions that are non-lit related. All of my work in-house thus far has been very much that of a generalist and work hand in hand with management in handling day-to-day operations. I got the job because I was at the right place at the right time and was actively looking to leave. I echo the comments about the lifetstyle improvement.

This is 36 - I work in the real estate industry - which should add some more mystery to receiving a 2008 bonus. I have a lit background and no several other litigators that have been able to land great in-house positions that are non-lit related. All of my work in-house thus far has been very much that of a generalist and work hand in hand with management in handling day-to-day operations. I got the job because I was at the right place at the right time and was actively looking to leave. I echo the comments about the lifetstyle improvement.

Advise please :) I'm a 4th year and thinking of going in house. What are the pros and cons of going now v. later? Should I stay at the firm longer to get more training so that I can potentially land a higher position once I try for in house? Or should I jump now since there are more openings around the mid year levels? Is moving around in this market just a bad idea?