NYT covered this forever ago and included more douche-tastic quotes.

Great, so basically someone who went to the Harvard Ed School for an EdM (acceptance rate: ~50%) or the Kennedy School for an MPP/MPA/MCMPA (acceptance rate: ~35-55%) gets into TIPS. So much for selectivity.

How else are these ugly antisocial people going to get dates?

Elie Mystal, you have been summoned to appear before my court and face the charges alleged in the forthcoming indictment.

An opinion on the matter will be rendered Thursday October 22, 2009.

It is so order.

Ick. People who go to this thing deserve each other. Wouldn't want their douchey-ness to contaminate the general population.

UVA undergrad *is* on the list. Maybe it's been added since this article...?

http://www.ivyplussociety.org/362dir/about.html

Kash, Duke doesn't make the grade either. Does Williams? I'd really like to know if Williams makes your cut Kash? To mitigate your completely overinflated sense of entitlement, I need to remind you that you write for a blog that when typed into Google has one of the links showing anal sex / butt sex (check out the bottom right). You're also broke in the face and body.

Just taking an all-out dump on Northwestern undergrad.

Yes, yes, let them go to these events. Keep the loserness within the group.

I LOVE dating frigid, over-educated Ivy League women! Why would anyone ever go to a bar or a regular social event?

Yes for Berkeley, Duke, Hopkins, LSE, but no for any top liberal arts colleges (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore)? Not sure if I'm buying their cutoffs...

#9: Northwestern is there also. Looks like they've expanded a bit since the list posted in the article.

5 -

"It is so order." Really?

Epic fail in your debut as one more worthless avatar. Stop surfing the net during class and pay attention to the professors at your TTT.

Liberal arts alumni are undatable. That's a fact.

The guy in the article sounds like JaKe.

The guy in the photo is hot (but needs to ditch the facial hair).

If you went to law school at a school listed under the "Colleges," are you in or out? I'm trying to figure if I qualify, or if my wife (who went to undergrad there -- holla!) is going to leave me.

Thanks

So glad I'm married. This is sad.

7, 13: Good, add Northwestern and UVA to the list of schools that shouldn't have made the cut.

"If you were a graduate University of Virginia School of Law graduate, OK, you can attend."

Wow...where to begin?

I can't wait to start meeting those smoking hot Caltech broads.

I now have an idea for the plot to Saw VII due out Halloween 2010. Invite TIPS members to a bar for a private event. Then you lock them in and make them smart their way out of the bar. Only the smarts tested are all things that only normal plebian types know.

18: You would be in. Hell, if you went to Columbia General Studies or Harvard Extension, you would be in.

I'm interested in the criteria on how they choose the spots. . . .US News rankings? If so what about Cooley at 12 not being on the list?

This is really, really sad. I feel bad for people who care about this shit and am never coming to ATL again for posting this drivel.

26: Still better than yet another "OMG racists!" post by Elie. ATL is all about prestige whoring.

Cambridge, but not Oxford? LSE, but not Oxford? The spicy singles on Rhodes Scholarships will NOT be pleased.

You said it, 19.

Also, what this says is that ivy league educated people who choose to attend this god awful event are generally unattractive, not ivy people in general.

But I didn't need this story to tell me that.

Looks like they're not doing the WUSTL.

Baylor !?!? You've got to be kidding me. Poison Ivy, maybe, but no way "Ivy Plus."

I have 3 degrees, all of which are on this list. But I would never go. Anyone who thinks this is a legit qualification for a date is an idiot. You need to recognize this little venture for the ego-stroking, self-esteem building nonsense that it is.

Its also bad business - the problem that plagues all failed dating ventures is an oversupply of men. And guess what adding the service academies does?

What about women's colleges? Barnard, Wellesley, Smith, Bryn Mawr, etc. Doesn't look like they're on the list.

The Penn people must be pissed that they don't make the cut but UPa does.

Williams is more prestigious than about anything else on this list besides maybe Harvard and Princeton (for undergrad).

How do they certify that you're an Ivy? Do they require transcripts or something at the door?

The list is marred by the inclusion of Cornell, Penn and Dartmouth, which are at best known as the bottom rung of the Ivy league.

What a delighfully noxious idea that someone came up with to create an organization where elitist snobs can meet and date, possibly marry, and reproduce even more repellant offspring. ATL should list where their next event will be held so that a good, civic minded person can place a bunch of claymores in there beforehand. That person would be doing the world a big favor.

30: And rightfully so. No one except USNews buys that WUSTL is prestigious. Just look at the placement / employment numbers -- much weaker than they should be for a school of its rank (ugrad feeder numbers to top business/law/med schools, law school firm placement numbers, etc.)

Does Skadden qualify?

University of Michigan undergrad should be added - we are the best undergraduate institution on the planet.

Go Blue!

With all due respect to the individuals who have worked hard and obtained degrees from these unquestionably fine institutions - if someone's narcissism runs so deep that he or she only dates those with educational pedigrees "equal to or better than" themselves, and this TIPS organization serves as a "resource" for them - I say thank god for the rest of us. Think of it this way - TIPS weeds these douchebags out of the dating pool for the rest of us.

For those of you who have not already - I encourage you to visit the website, which hilarously and conspicously fails to offer its "services" to residents of Chicago, which, geographically, is far closer than NY, DC, SF or LA to one the darlings of its list- The University of Michigan. Just thought I'd point out the not-so-subtle depth of this organization's douchebaggery and obnoxiousness.

35: Williams is on the updated list:
http://www.ivyplussociety.org/362dir/about.html

Also included are Amherst, Northwestern, and UVA.

Actual Ivy Leaguers would be humiliated to be linked with most of these institutions, which are just trade schools at best.

I only date Order of the Coif. Is there a service for that?

Williams is for people who couldn't get into Harvard, Yale or Princeton and wanted to tell people they went to a number one school.

A few impressions on the undergrad list since I know several girls from each one. . . .Will have to think about the grad school list, only coming up with partials at the moment

Air Force Academy some cute girls but manly

Berkeley (University of California) hippy chicks

Brown University -ugh

Caltech -engineer and good looking mutually exclusive

Cambridge- English girls are great for variety and drinking

Columbia University- 'Nuff said (and that's not a good thing)

Cornell University- Don't they have a high suicide rate, probably becasue the girls are not attractive

Dartmouth College- East Coast hippies

Duke University- Do I need to comment

Georgetown University-No I don't care that you work on the hill or who you know

Harvard University-UGLY!

London School of Economics-The ones I have met are good looking and smart, but a little high strung and like the booger sugar

Johns Hopkins University-Ugly, boring, stories from Baltimore usually involve murder or going to DC

MIT-Eye Bleach

Naval Academy-mmmm sexy (when not manly which is not too often)

Princeton University-Cute, but bitchy

Stanford University-Average looking but smart

University of Chicago-OMFG you're ugly

University of Pennsylvania-Hit every branch on the way down when they fell out of the ugly tree

West Point, not as cute is USNA girls and watch out for the large hands

Yale University- icky

The #46 is for people who didn't even come close to getting into any of those schools but comes on abovethelaw.com to pretend he/she is prestigious in an odd attempt of self-gratification.

14

I hold you in contempt. Please address Your Honor with the requisite respect.

It is so ordered.

PE, thou speaks the truth. The list goes Harvard + Yale, Princeton on a good day --- then various trade schools.

I'm glad to see nobody mentioned U. of Penn/Penn State, the combined entity that inexplicably tries to surface in these discussions.

Back in the slime you go, U. Penn/Penn State.

I absolutely agree...Ivy Leaguers are so intellectually superior that they simply could not date a summa at a state school. Asinine tripe. On the plus side, my FTT rants (unsurprisingly) continue to be vindicated.

I suggest the same einsteins behind the Ivy Plus Society start a new website, the "Ivy Plus Prison Bitch Society." It would be a way for FTTs serving a prison sentence for running or enabling corporate criminal schemes to choose a suitable cell partner from a similar institution. Obviously graduates of FTT law and business schools are included, but there's no reason why manslaughtering physicians or undergraduate criminals (including graduates of UVA) could not be included as well. The homely look problem no doubt will still exist, but standards creep down an awful lot in the tail end of a 10-year sentence.

"Johns Hopkins University-Ugly, boring, stories from Baltimore usually involve murder or going to DC"

LOL -- funny because it's true.

Hopkins students are also known for yelling out "don't come here" to prospectives touring campus. That can't be a great sign...

I haven't seen the list but I can only assume that Virginia Military Institute (male graduates only) is on it if the tools from the "federal academies" are?

Cal-Berkeley is on there, but not Michigan-Ann Arbor?

So sad.

I really wanted the opportunity to meet sort-of-cute-except-for-one-MAJOR-physical-defect single Ivy league girls...

like the Columbia grad I met in NYC with a nice figure, but bug-out eyes... or the Harvard grad in I met in Chicago with a cute face, but thunder thighs.

Those rhymed.

This is a great idea. An excellent way of keeping all the assholes together so as not to bother the rest of society.

I hope the people in that photo aren't supposed to be representative of Ivy Leaguers. They're far too attractive.

What about PE's alma mater, Boise State? I heard they colored the field to match his balls.

50: Agreed. It's HYP as the cream of the crop. You can also include MIT or Caltech if you're hardcore into the sciences and perhaps Stanford if you really want to be on the west coast. But that's it -- everything else is a backup really.

53,

You obviously live in a cave or are a retard, VMI was forced to accept women a decade ago.

PE,
You put Brown ahead of Dartmouth and Penn? Get real.

What about PE's alma mater, Boise State? I heard they colored the field to match his balls. A lifetime of virginity.

is there a way to get my school on the list? i'm an unattractive snobby d-bag so I should fit right in.

This is how facebook started. Now look what happened.

Failing to understand that superficial conversations are very different than superficial people? Kashmir you are clearly not ivy league material.

Nothing wrong with wanting to connect with people who are in your intellectual range, as the article puts it. Would you date someone who is much dumber than you?

I rather make some sex with Res Ipsa's mouth hole than Kash's anal crustacean.

Shafeef

Only idiots would base dating decisions on where the other person went to school. My wife never went to college and makes tons more money than me as an exec at a bank. PLUS, she resembles Kash, without the ass lobster and with a better sense of fashion. Take that.

How is Notre Dame not on the list, they are close to the douchiest people on the planet, and the girls from there are cute enough you don't need to black out to hook up with them?

I can't think of anyplace LESS sexy than the University of Chicago. I'm just sayin'.

--UC grad

What exactly did lat say? I take it that it wasnt only one tweet since someone said something about facebook as well. Now he has some apologetic bullshit on his twitter. What was said? Elie might be fight, but my money is on him if they fight.

@50: "princeton on a good day"??

Bizarre statement

I would totally do the chick in the stock photo.

60: Flagrant gaming of the USNews rankings should not be rewarded. No one thinks that Penn or for that matter, WashU (to call out a non-Ivy guilty of the same sketchy practices) should be as highly ranked as they currently are. Penn was the worst, least selective Ivy not too long ago, and even today, in terms of pure selectivity, it's only ahead of Cornell.

total BS that none of the women's colleges were included in this list - we are the original go-to for dates for ivy men! then again, we went there to avoid the d-bags at the other schools, so you can keep your little exclusive lame list to yourselves anyway.

64,

The fault in your reasoning is you assume that the dumbest asshole to graduate from one of these schools is still smarter than the smartest person from a school not on the list. Epic fail in reasoning, please dear God, I hope you're a student and have time to drop out.

OMG! Is this for real, or an Onion piece about total d-bags?

Do people who graduated from Penn State before the merger with Penn qualify?

Is the point of this to meet someone who will help you win the legal eagle wedding watch?

The top liberal arts colleges have had a service like this for years: "The Right Stuff" (http://www.rightstuffdating.com/v_index.cfm)
Includes Ivy's, but also the top 15 or so Liberal Arts Colleges (i.e. where just as smart, but more attractive (but see Williams, where the girls are hideous) & sociable people chose to attend college).

School member list:
Amherst
Art Center College of Design
Art Institute of Chicago
Barnard
Bates
Bowdoin
Brandeis
Brown
Bryn Mawr
Caltech
Cambridge
Carleton College (MN)
Carnegie Mellon
Claremont Colleges
Colby
Colgate
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Davidson
Duke
Emory
Georgetown
Grinnell
Hamilton
Harvard
Haverford
Johns Hopkins
Juilliard
McGill
Medical School
Middlebury
Military Academy
MIT
Mount Holyoke
Northwestern
NYU
Oberlin
Oxford
Princeton
Queen's
Radcliffe
Reed
Rice
RISD
Smith
Stanford
Swarthmore
Tufts
U of Chicago
U of Michigan
U of Notre Dame
U of Pennsylvania
U of Toronto
U of Virginia
UC Berkeley
UCLA
UCSF
UNC Chapel Hill
Vanderbilt
Vassar
Wake Forest
Washington (St. Louis)
Washington and Lee
Wellesley
Wesleyan
Western Ontario
Williams
Yale

I am sympathetic to the urge to create some proxy for an "intelligence filter," but there surely must be a less douche-tacular way of going about it. It is overinclusive, underinclusive, and - most obviously - a terrible signal about who you are.

53- you're an idiot. Show some respect for your betters at the Service Academies. Comparing them to the clowns who play ROTC at VMI is disgraceful.

Courtship Connection sounds amazing! Like Date-Lab but for dorky ATL-readers....

I'm starting a similar dating club based on what legal job you have. This is the list -- NO EXCEPTIONS:

Wachtell
Kellogg & Huber
Susman Godfrey
Williams & Connolly
Bartlit Beck
Keker & Van Nest
DOJ (Criminal, SG only)

That's it. No exceptions will be made. Cravath and s&c can hang out with the MoFo chicks/dudes.

Courtship Connection sounds amazing! Like Date-Lab but for dorky ATL-readers....

Courtship Connection sounds amazing! Like Date-Lab but for dorky ATL-readers....

Why does Lat hate Mystal so much now?

ignorant douches. frankly, you can keep the Ivy women. Without fail, I find them insipid and ugly. I'll take a hot chick from SUNY Oswego who can cook ANY day of the week.

Have fun masturbating.

It is for people who long to date unemployed graduates of the finest schools.

82 -

You accidentally left off WILDMAN HARROLD.

74: Agreed. There are a lot of dumb athletes, legacies, and URMs coming out of the Ivies and other schools on the TIPS list. Conversely, there are a lot of really smart students at top state schools who went there because of financial reasons, etc.

And remember that what college you went to was a product of where you were at the age of 18. I'd rather be with someone who peaked with a top grad, med, law, business, school than someone whose life highlight was going to HYP, but hasn't done shit since (the case with more Ivy grads that you'd realize).

This comment is addressed to post no. 60.

I stand corrected. Brown is also on the bottom rung. On the subject of lovely females, when I was dating over 40 years ago, Barnard was an excellent source of female companionship whenever I came back to NYC on winter or summer break. I agree with most that this Ivy Plus society list is terribly flawed. Some of the listed "elite" schools are not elite in my eyes.

This comment is addressed to post no. 60.

I stand corrected. Brown is also on the bottom rung. On the subject of lovely females, when I was dating over 40 years ago, Barnard was an excellent source of female companionship whenever I came back to NYC on winter or summer break. I agree with most that this Ivy Plus society list is terribly flawed. Some of the listed "elite" schools are not elite in my eyes.

I look at it this way, if you marry a chick from this douche site, she might be ugly, but she'll be a virgin

Ditto 89 - It's amazing how many Ivy kids at my law school (a T20), performed worse than state school kids. (I am neither Ivy nor state school, just making the observation.)

59-you obviously can't read. I didn't say that VMI should be included because it only has male graduates, only that the inclusion of VMI graduates should be limited to the males.

Would you want to date a female VMI grad? I doubt it.

They missed the boat on this one. The service should be matching Ivy educated professional track men with ASU and other hot party school women.

Swarthmore? Tufts? Have you actually ever wanted to fuck a chick from those schools? If you have, says more about what a loser YOU are than words can express.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I attended one of these events last year, and then had the misfortune of running into a gaggle of my law school classmates. The event was a waste of my time and money. I'd rather be single forever than go to an event like that again.

Northwestern is on the list? Wtf is that about!?

78: Sorry, but that Right Stuff list is so overinclusive as to defeat the purpose of exclusivity.

Just to pick a few: Bates, Brandeis, Colgate (!!!), Grinnell, Hamilton, Tufts, UNC, Vassar, Wake Forest, Western Ontario? If you allow those schools, you pretty much have to open up the floodgates to be fair, or else admit that your list is completely and ridiculously arbitrary.

Northwestern is on the list? Wtf is that about!?

Lat/mystal fued explained

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1112962&mc=20&forum_id=2&PHPSESSID=3e833067a4e6287e76fc254499e294bf

Barnyard is notorious for ugly women, and lesbians. NYU chicks MUCH hotter.

95

I second that motion, PAC 10 and SEC girls for the guys. . . .Dinners and bitching about why they are still single and childless with the girlfriends for the gals from these schools.

Leaving out Middlebury is a fatal flaw.

94

You evidently can't communicate clearly. Read what you wrote, not what you intended to write, and then come back to me. But agree with the statement as intended.

-53

BAYLOR over UT anything?!

104: Not at all. Beyond the absolute top liberal arts schools (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore), the quality drops off big time. There's nothing wrong with a Middlebury or a Bowdoin, but they're not elite schools. I mean, hell, if we include Middlebury, then we need to include the rest of the that next tier of liberal arts schools too: Bowdoin, Carleton, Wellesley, etc. and now, the list is watered down.

Apparently learning how to only post once is not a pre-req for elitism.

88 -- sorry -- firms w/ rpl of 500k will be part of another club i'm creating -- the TTT Dating Extravaganza

Damn, 47! You just got me fired from the 'no-laugh' factory!

82 - You should add OLC to the DOJ section.

101

Wow. If kash has a hair on her balls, she will make a true/slant post about the problems with the universal nature of the internet and a lack of privacy online about THIS SPECIFIC STORY. Tread carefully, but go there.

I second 25. Cooley should immediately petition to be allowed in these events.

Also, no coast guard academy? For shame

107: are you retarded? Middlebury has been a top-5 College for almost the past decade. And top-10 before that. (Williams/Amhert/Swarthmore, Wellesley, Middlebury - check your rankings).

Not to mention that we are concerned with both intelligence and attractiveness. If you can show me an attractive Amherst, Williams or Swarthmore graduate I'll eat my arm.

Suck my ass, Mystal, you obese race bating Walrus!

D. Lat

In a vacuum, this is not a bad idea. After all, people generally date others in the same socioeconomic circumstances (and therefore, likely the same educational background) as themselves.

With that said this is the problem:

Normal, well-adjusted members of society can spot those with equal intelligence and status based on looks (or within 10 seconds of talking to someone). I don't know about you, but I don't need to be told which members of society are within my "league" - I'm at the point in my life when I can do that on my own when I am out on weekends.

The fact that these people need this service tells me: (1) that they are lazy; (2) that they are ugly; (3) or that they are not well-adjusted.

Moscow State University is only proper response!

Why do you drink soda?

114: We get it -- you obviously went to Middlebury and are having a panic attack because we don't think it's as prestigious as you do. The point was that if you take Middlebury, you really have to take Wellesley (tied with it), Bowdoin & Pomona (only two points less) as well. That's more liberal arts schools than should be included.

And also, come on, Middlebury is in the middle of nowhere in fucking Vermont -- sorry, but that's costs it prestige points right there no matter how good it is.

Bummer. Wisconsin undergrad + UC-Hastings Law appears to qualify me only to wait tables for this club. Oh well, maybe in my next life I'll be so lucky.

47 was good!! Aren't NYU chicks basically JAPs from Longisland, maybe attempting to be edgy?

It's like they always said: Barnard to bed, Columbia to wed.

99 - Bates and Vassar are both very selective. The others, not so much.

This is hysterical. I truly can't believe this event exists. People who attend it deserve each other.

119 - it's cute that (a) you think you speak for others in your faulty determination (b) think that the lesser Ivy's are more prestigious than the top liberal arts colleges merely based on name-sake, and (c) are still upset that you got rejected from Middlebury when you applied.

Whereas I (a) am quite confident and calm in my knowledge of Middlebury's prestige, (b) got to hook up with truly attractive people during my 4 years there, and (c) am more attractive than you.

So, at what age does maturity set in? Here's to 30 being the new 20.

"It's like they always said: Barnard to bed, Columbia to wed."

I cannot believe that I live in the same country as an idiot like this. Check that. an overeducated idiot.

I'll wager that 1 out of every 3 phone number exchanges that occur at these events end with borderline stalking. If you're really so socially inept as to be unable to identify someone of a similar socioeconomic background AND you're using a singles service, that points to some serious issues.

Pitty I chose Oxford. Ah well those Baylor Med school types are out of my league anyway.

(Not 114) - At my T25 law school, much of law review was people from the T10 liberal arts colleges (and Michigan, oddly enough). The Ivys didn't fair nearly as well - though to be fair there were very few HYP students yet shittons of CCDP kids).

Most people who went to T10 LACs had the option of attending middle/lower Ivys but wanted a different environment.

(not 114, not 129) Midd makes you attach a picture to your application. I'm just saying...

98/99 - Northwestern is a better school than a lot of the schools on their. I'm not sure where you went to school that would give you a chip on your shoulder about Northwestern (Michigan? Chicago?) but its not even a borderline school on this list. It's a hell of a lot more exclusive than Cornell.

I have made some phone calls and emails to fill in the blanks and continue my post

Business School:
Anderson - UCLA-Average looking and smart.

Kellogg - Northwestern-Curly haired, tall lanky, and will eat you alive since they are single bitter cougars

Stern - NYU-Souless and depressed, have realized they are going to die alone

Law School:
NYU Law-See 121 since I can't improve

University of Michigan School of Law- Fail to realize having a bad football team and being ugly are both not things to brag about (except this one really tall long legged blonde, she was an exception)

University of Virginia School of Law-A quandry, the one i know is hot and love just staring at her body, but from other sources, bitchy and not hot.

Medical School:
Baylor College of Medicine-Texans are never bad.

UCLA School of Medicine-Smart but too many "former athletes" if you get my drift

UCSF School of Medicine-Medical pot is good and showering is bad.

University of Michigan School of Medicine-Don't believe in shaving; anything. (also see the law school description)

University of Washington School of Medicine-Hardest of all, but no real complaints, so have to rate as doable.

Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine-Female Jewish Doctors who couldn't get into UM or Northwestern for med school=bitter and don't like "playing doctor"

-47

126 - I actually heard that from female Columbia undergrads.

In reality, Barnard is mostly - in no particular order: (a) lesbian, (b) orthodox Jews, and (c) foreign Asian students.

131 - did anyone teach you grammar at Northwestern? "their" = there. "its" (in this context) = it's.

It's so pathetic how many guys waste their time arguing over the prestige of their colleges or law schools. A sign of insecurity, and probably a small penis too.

This is retarded. I'll prove it. My secretary went to UVA, a TIPS approved school. I did not go to a TIPS approved school. WTF?

"Most people who went to T10 LACs had the option of attending middle/lower Ivys but wanted a different environment."

That's almost certainly not the case. The average SAT numbers for top 10 LACs are around / at least 100 points lower compared to the non-HYP Ivies. Look, there's nothing wrong with liberal arts colleges and yes, of course, there are some students there that could have gone to Ivy League schools. However, it's just not true to say that "most" or even many could have gone to an Ivy instead. No one's buying it beyond a few isolated cases.

136,

Is she hot?

137 - most of them could have gone to Cornell for sure

UCLA = As good as Virginia and G-Town; As selective as Berkeley --- should be on the list

Wait, I though Penn was in the Big 10? Is that just for football and basketball?

Also, 53, the 900 SAT average of VMI admittees is a little below the range this group is shooting for.

If anyone is obsessed with Tips, it would be that pillow biting Philippino guy, I think you call him, Lat.

Kash, what types of guys do you date, and do you take it in the butt? What What.

137 - so wrong. Picking a T10, or especially a T5 LAC means you were accepted at T10 Ivy's, but decided you wanted a pleasant College experience with small classes, a nicer campus in a nicer area, and accessible professors not obsessed with publishing.

134:

131 here. I acknowledge the first mistake ("their") as being pretty shitty. But you're an idiot for thinking I actually don't know the difference; its an obvious typo.

As for it's vs. its - well thats just stupid, nobody gives a fuck.

And I didn't go to Northwestern. I went to Stanford. But I'm from the midwest and know how good Northwestern is, so I defend it against d-bag alums from all these east coast also-rans who only get grouped with HYP thanks to an athletic conference.

I would rather not attend parties with Brown students.

How the hell do they prove this? Are you supposed to carry a copy of your diploma with you to these events? Or must you pre-qualify and they give you a card to carry so you too can be a total douchenozzle?

139: The land-grant / state schools at Cornell? Sure. Cornell Arts & Sciences? Maybe, maybe not. The top liberal arts students, probably, but your average run-of-the-mill one? Almost certainly not. Aside from very random isolated cases, admissions are far more predictable than you might think. I just don't see many students turning down say Dartmouth or Brown (the more liberal artsy of the non-HYP Ivies) for Middlebury, Bowdoin, Wellesley, etc.

Is there any truth to the rumor that Elie got so mad over the Lat statements that he quit?

I'd take UC Berkeley, UCLA, University of Virginia, or University of Michigan over a bunch of these lower tiered Ivies -- why spend $40K more per year for undergrad. education? From experience, the options that open up really are not that much better coming out of Brown or Cornell than they are coming out of one of the schools listed. I will admit that the transfer system sometimes depletes the quality of the top public schools (the system needs to be reformed!!!)

As for liberal arts colleges, who the hell has heard of any of them? Many tend to be a way for Ivy rejects to still feel prestigious because they went to a small private school

80 -- but the fellas at VMI fought for the confederacy in the civil war. give them some credit...

Why would you want to attend this Ivy League only event? Most Ivy Leaguers are ugly and lack social skills. I would rather mingle with hot ASU, UCSB, USC or UMiami chicks.

UVA is the best school on the East Coast.

Late Nite Shots

The University of Phoenix Online's omission is clearly an error

146 FTW. Few people would choose of the borderline schools (Cornell, Penn, Berkeley) over NWU.

The University of Phoenix Online's omission is clearly an error

113, Coast Guard Academy = Tufts of service academies. Doesn't make the cut.

Northwestern does deserve more respect than it's getting

People who spend lots of time crowing over their pedigrees generally have nothing else going for them.

Wow, the liberal arts colleges trolls have really taken over this thread... The "but I could have went to an Ivy!" whining isn't convincing anyone. It's just about as convincing as "I could have went to CLS, but I thought Fordham would provide me with a more pleasant law school experience!" Right...

T5 LAC to HLS. Q.E.D..

156: Uh, most people would take Berkeley (esp. in-state tuition), Penn (rising reputation, even if unjustified), or Cornell (at least if it's Arts & Sciences) over Northwestern unless they had some burning desire to be in the midwest.

137 - Here's the data for Brown, Carleton, Penn, and Pomona. Pomona is actually the most selective by SAT score, with Carleton's 25/75 being 0-20 points lower than Brown and Penn in most instances. So yes, the credentials of most people at these schools are fairly interchangeable.

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/Brown_profile.htm
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/Carleton_profil.htm
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/penn_profile.htm
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/Pomona_profile.htm

this is embarassing. I truly doubt I could ever date someone that was this concerned with academic pedigree. Yes, I went to one of the Ivy League schools, but that doesn't make me better than say, someone, who went to a smaller college or university? It's just insane to think that it does. Get over yourselves.

It doesn't take going to an Ivy to realize that the TIPS website just asks you what school you went to and doesn't require even a sliver of proof.

151 - not-so-subtle Michigan trolling. There's something Michigan people never understand: EVERYBODY KNOWS. We know how easy your school is to get into. Nobody is fooled by Michigan's rankings or the amount of research they put out. Its a much easier school to get into and really has little in common with the other schools on this list. In fact, the only thing we really have in common is that we all got into Michigan.

47 - Great analysis. I agree 100%

Most people at top liberal arts colleges did not get into the Ivies; they're generally affluent whites with good grades and extracurriculars who faced the fact that it's a bitch to break away from the pack of high school kids w/ 4.0s. They may well have picked a liberal arts college over Cornell, but probably not Brown.

Poor choice of schools, especially the med school focus. About 80 med schools are more academically rigorous than nearly everything else on that list.

169 - empirical data please. How many people do you know from the T5 LAC's? I'm guessing less than 10.

158- Agreed. As a service academy old grad, I shudder whenever someone tries to equate Coast Guard with USMA, USNA, and USAFA.

Looses all credibility by not putting Oxford on the list. Give me a fucking break.

Have any of the single guys online here ever visited the College of Charleston, which is 80 percent female? I would pick the first ten (any ten undergraduate) women I see on campus there over the entire Ivy League female graduating class -- there is a tremendous difference in that they are strikingly attractive, poised, classy and I would rather spend one date with one of them than try fifty dates with the Ivy League/Smith College (ugh) crowd

Lol at all you who are actually debating which schools should be on this list. Do you fail to realize the whole concept oozes of d-baggery?

Comment removed by moderator.

42, there is an unofficial ivy plus group in chicago. Totally not stuck up and filled with douches like these events seem to be...

169 - It also depends on what you're interested in academically.

If you want to be an investment banker, Williams is a better choice than Brown or Cornell. If you want to be a geologist, Carleton is better than most Ivys. If you want to do chemistry, Harvey Mudd is better than just about anything other than Cal Tech or MIT. If you want to walk around in black turtlenecks, brooding and smoking a lot, Vassar is the perfect school.

But if you want the freedom to design your own major, Brown is the ideal place. If you want to open a sustainable farm someday, Cornell is the obvious choice....

163 - you're right about in-state tuition being a factor. Duh. But I assumed we were making apples-to-apples comparisons here. Not bringing in personal considerations like scholarships and residency.

Maybe you have a point with Penn too. All I'm saying is, there's a lot of schools on this list (Cornell, Berkeley, Virginia, Gtown etc) that are on this list and are as good as Northwestern AT BEST. And you're "burning desire to be in the midwest" comment is the opposite of true. People choose these also-ran schools because they applied to HYP and didn't get in, but feel a burning desire to be on the coast of their choosing.

Interestingly, according to TIP's membership, alumnae of the Seven Sisters colleges (Smith, Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, Barnard, etc.) are not eligible for membership. Given the historical connections between these schools and their Ivy League counterparts, I wonder why these schools were excluded?

171: As a Carleton grad, I know more than 10. But maybe the school is an outlier. It's a great school, but I wouldn't have gone if I had gotten my first choices.
-169

169 is right. Brown and Dartmouth are basically liberal arts schools anyway, and very few students are taking top liberal arts colleges over them.

And, if we're talking about where students actually go, all those Revealed Preference surveys reveal that the only liberal arts colleges competitive with lower Ivies are Amherst, Wellesley (surprised myself), and to a lesser extent Swarthmore. Williams surprisingly underperformed (in terms of where people actually want to go / pick to go). Pomona and Middlebury finished below Northwestern and Georgia Tech (!) respectively.

180

They're ugly?

I went to NU (please note it's NU, NOT NWU) and agree that it's on par w/the bottom Ivies. I chose it over Berkeley (w/in-state tuition) and looking back, that may have been an error, esp. since I planned to settle in CA long term anyway, and most people outside of the midwest don't know much about NU. That said, I would group people at NU into two distinct groups - the people who were thrilled to go there and thought it was a fantastic school (many of these people were from the midwest) and then the people who were bitter about not getting into a top Ivy (that would be me).

Branch out of your own little worlds guys. Yes, talk to people who have NOT attended "prestigious" schools. Maybe even date them! It's a great big world out there!

You guys are pathetic.

179: Agreed that Northwestern is comparable to places like Berkeley, Cornell under the right circumstances and especially UVA, Georgetown. There's a lot of arbitrary line-drawing taking place and I doubt Georgetown would be on the list sans its political connections and the like. The same with Cornell and its Ivy affiliation. Unfortunately, Northwestern loses out because it's overshadowed by Chicago, and it's in the midwest (whereas people typically think of the east coast as elite).

If Mystal did indeed quit, please put in Marin to fill that spot. I love her writing style.

Which schools have chicks that are most likely to take it in the butt?

what what

181/169: I graduated from Middlebury, and since then HLS. All of my closest friends from Midd - like myself - turned down schools like Yale, Brown and Columbia because Midd offered us more (not in financial aid, speaking more holistically). Not to mention that of my closest friends from college, 5 of them also went to HLS. And we weren't even at the tip-top of our class at Midd (magna instead of summa - which at Midd means top 150/600 or so).

186 - 184 here, I was accepted to UofC and so were many of my classmates. I don't think I ever felt like NU was clearly inferior to UofC, though I know that is what most people think.

What a misleading name. How can TIPS be called TIPS when they let in non-Ivy people? You're tainting the gene pool.

Go Tigers!

If you actually went to Carleton, you'd know that most people at the school didn't even apply to Ivys. People pick schools like Carleton because it's small, doesn't have a Greek system, offers a more intimate learning setting, and provides better access to professors and research opportunities than larger schools.

The only school where many Carleton students wanted to go but didn't get in is Williams. For a good chunk of the school, though, it is the first choice. At one point, well over 1/3 of the class was admitted via early decision.

165, you do realize that making snap judgments about a person's intelligence is the sole basis for hiring in every sector of our profession, right?

Bates/Northeastern Law, unemployed for >2 years

181/169: I went to Midd undergrad, and SLS since then. Of my closest friends at Midd, 5 of them have since graduated from HLS, YLS or SLS. 2 went on to the Mayo clinic. Like myself, each of them turned down Ivy's like Yale, Brown and Columbia because Midd offered us a different (i.e. more pleasant) experience with the same high level of education. I was actually shocked at the number of state-school admits at SLS and what I viewed to be a significantly lower calibre of student than what I had experienced during my undergrad years.

The college experience in Ann Arbor combined with the national recognition of a Michigan degree make it a better choice for undergrad than any thing other school except perhaps your Harvard, Yale, Standford, Princeton, & UChicago. In other words, I understand why would like to have 1/2 the fun to attend those schools

Anyone who went to Northwestern, UCLA, Cal, or lower-tiered Ivies have no idea what they missed out on in undergrad - and they certainly didn't get any tangible career or grad school admissions benefit.

Big 10 experience + Prestige = Michigan

You know, everyone bashes capitalists. But most top capitalists came from fairly humble educational and social backgrounds and succeeded by hard work and risk taking.

In many respects academic elitists are far, far worse than the most brazen capitalist pig. These are people who genuinely believe themselves superior to other human beings because a committee of academics that probably never met them admitted them to join the club when they were 18 (or 22 for law schools).

When the revolution comes, it should be "Ivy plus" members against the wall. They're the true modern aristocrats, the undeserving privileged of our time. It's time for the hardworking proletariat of non-ivy-educated professionals to rise up and overthrow this pretentious bourgeoisie of self-important middle men.

You know, everyone bashes capitalists. But most top capitalists came from fairly humble educational and social backgrounds and succeeded by hard work and risk taking.

In many respects academic elitists are far, far worse than the most brazen capitalist pig. These are people who genuinely believe themselves superior to other human beings because a committee of academics that probably never met them admitted them to join the club when they were 18 (or 22 for law schools).

When the revolution comes, it should be "Ivy plus" members against the wall. They're the true modern aristocrats, the undeserving privileged of our time. It's time for the hardworking proletariat of non-ivy-educated professionals to rise up and overthrow this pretentious bourgeoisie of self-important middle men.

194/189: You went to HLS or SLS? Get your story straight before posting more cheap lies.

ps, YLS grad here, and I've never even heard of "Middlebury," whatever the fuck that's supposed to refer to. A Jane Austin novel? A crusty sandwich? What?

Wow, Cambridge and LSE but not Oxford? Fail.

Was there some confusion with Oxford Mississippi?

195

Big 10 experience, what with a bunch of fucking ugly broads in one of the shittier college towns in a hellhole state. You want Big 10 experience go to MSU, Iowa, PSU, UW, IU, U of I, or OSU. Your retarded comments show you never visited a real Big 10 school

-Didn't go to a Big 10 school, but now that I am a dirty old man and can afford it, go to as many football games on campus as possible.

Does the UPenn State Philly campus qualify?

Wow, 189 and 194 is just about the worst astroturf trolling I've ever seen. Next time, you might want to change the writing style at least (not just the schools involved). Seriously, this is like high school "cut and paste" bad.

fail

fail

fail

fail

Just join MENSA and date those people. The same amount of awkwardness, but at least you can guarantee actual intelligence.

Oh wait, most ivy leaguers wouldn't qualify.

199

I challenge any straight man to not drool when on campus at Oxford. I am tempted to get an LLM there just so I can either get a wife or have a ton of sex with southern belles.

195 here - Michigan undergrad alum.

I've been to every big ten campus except Iowa & Purde. We may not be as big a party school as MSU or Indiana or Wisco, but given the academic trade off, we have a good time in ways the Ivies don't get a chance to do.

200 is an idiot - I hope you enjoyed your 4 years hanging out in your dorm playing D&D at Brandeis.

How could possibly never have heard of Middlebury? Don't you watch The Simpsons? In the best episode ever, 22 Short Films About Springfield, Snake is wearing a Middlebury shirt.

Idiot.

?

96, Jessica Biel went to Tufts, so nice try.

Not to throw another wrench in this circle jerk, but maybe some of you should go to www.gradeinflation.com. Not surprisingly, the most egregious grade inflation occurs at the Ivies, with Little Ivies and "lesser" national universities providing a much tougher grading regime. For instance, Harvard went from an average 2.55 in 1950 to 3.45 today. That is what we like to call 'bullshit.' Does this impact the notion of prestige? It might be hard for all of you fluff art history majors to read, b/c there are charts and statistical analyses and stuff, but try your best.

131- ok i acknowledge that Northwestern is a good school. But come on, it's not HYP or S. It's a good school for a little above-average kids to attend. But make no mistake, it doesn't rise to the prestige level of many of the schools on the list.

And I have to agree with 134- if you did attend Stanford as you claim, then you should know the difference between its and it's. Yes, it's a big deal.

181/169: I went to Midd undergrad, and YLS since then. Of my closest friends at Midd, 5 of them have since graduated from HLS, YLS or SLS. 2 went on to the Mayo Clinic. And we weren't even at the tip-top of our class at Midd (magna instead of summa - which at Midd means top 150/600 or so).

Like myself, each of them turned down Ivy's like Yale, Princeton and Brown because Midd offered us a different (i.e. more pleasant, not in financial aid, speaking more holistically) experience with the same high level of education. I was actually shocked at the number of state-school admits at YLS and what I viewed to be a significantly lower calibre of student than what I had experienced during my undergrad years.

QUINN REMAINS gets his women the old fashioned way: at brothels.

@207

MENSA??? Ha ha ha. I easily qualify for MENSA, but who the hell wants to hang out with those people? There's smart, and then there's fun. I prefer both.

BTW, I'm on the list.

195/209

Was undergrad all that challenging? Come on, no one thinks undergrad was challenging unless they were in a hard science or engineering major. UM has a rep, that's it and rep only gets you so far in life.

As for my undergrad, I went to a large good private university. I enjoyed boobs and beer with the best of them, but unlike you didn't have the stigma of being a state school that thought it was God's gift to doucheness.

To # 195 - what have you been smoking? The "prestige" of a "Michigan" degree? Undergraduate? Huh? Maybe the law school but the several million people with a MI undergraduate degree do not impress much of anyone to my knowledge.

Washington & Lee? Brandeis?

216: being at an Ivy makes them automatically fun? Why such trouble finding people, then?

My mother-in-law once joined MENSA as a way to meet men. She said they were all a bunch of losers and never went back. Granted, this was 35+ years ago, but I imagine the same holds today.

Amherst here. Back in the day, she was hot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karin_Immergut

Or course, he was a contemporary and was never hot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Fitzgerald

196/197 is right. Ivy Leaguers are where they are because they know how to take standardized tests.

Playing parlor games and filling in bubble sheets contributes nothing to society, and does not merit a six-figure salary.

You want to know why this country is in the sorry shape it is in? Because these parlor-game players spend 4+ years having everyone tell them how great they are, internalize this attitude and become narcissistic, and end up running the country.

This is a terrible idea. See: Legal Eagle Wedding Watch.

@ 154 - UVA/LATE NIGHT SHOTS

I just vommited in my mouth HAHAHA I have seen the women your crowd brings out. It's ashame when the best you can do is VaTech's worn out and tired vagoo. Also, please stop sending me invites to your social club.

Regards,
The rest of the ACC

How about the Merchant Marine Academy? It's not easy to learn how to handle a tanker longer than four football fields.

136 - Are you at Katten DC?

How about the Merchant Marine Academy? It's not easy to learn how to handle a tanker longer than four football fields.

136 - Are you at Katten DC?

Emory is not on the list? Emory is a top 20 university. Plus it was named one of the "New Ivies."

31: You are an idiot. Baylor Medical School is perennially top 10. Other than the name, it has absolutely no connection with Baylor University, which wouldn't make the cut for The Ivy League Plus Plus Plus Plus Plus Plus Society.

also Emory's business school is ranked like 5th in the nation.

I thought the normal way to sort yourself from the riff-raff was to frequent country clubs, bars and balls where the cost of entry, and a single malt, was just too high for anyone of undesirable standing

SMU chicks are hotter than anything these sphincter schools can shit out.

234

That's like saying Hitler was a better person than Stalin, becasue he didn't kill as many people.

226/228 - which one? There are three reputable merchant maritime academies in the country, all in states that begin with an "M": Maine, Massachusetts, and Michigan. Much like document reviewers, though, US merchant sailors can't get work b/c shippers just hire folk from East Fucktardistan for 20 cents a month.

The education pedigree requirements of Ivy Plus are nothing but a proxy for awkward, unattractive mouthbreathers.

232: USNews has Emory's Business School at #22, BusinessWeek has it at #23, and Forbes has it at #22. Where did this mythic top 5 ranking come from?

238

Same one where Cooley is 12.

195: Having spent significant time at both Michigan and a "lower Ivy", I'd choose the lower Ivy. Don't get me wrong, I loved my time at UM, but the mid-Ivies (probably Columbia, Penn, and Dartmouth) are significantly better schools, like it or not. I would agree that the "experience" at UM is better, though not by too much – and not by nearly enough to offset the advantages of the better academic experience, the Ivy League credentials, and the whole thing with not being stuck in friggin' Michigan.

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!! When William & Mary told me they were a "public ivy," they were LYING???

All of these years I thought I was educated and prestigious. I guess now I should just quit my job and work at Dunkin' Donuts:(

240: Agreed. And, it's not nice to say, but Michigan is a "dying" or at the very least, diminishing in national stature state. Especially with a state school, a lot of its promise and prestige is linked to the reputation of the state itself. I'd much rather cast my lot in with Virginia or California (despite its horrible budget problems) than with Michigan, which may need half a century to reinvent and divest itself from the dying auto industry.

sorry emory's undergraduate business program was 4th or 5th when i left in 2008

did Elie get fired? he hasn't posted once today.

Dating someone from the Ivy League is not impressive.

However, dating a member of the Justice League will get you into any club in the world.

231 -

Apparently TIPS disagrees with you and agrees with 31 since Baylor College of Medicine is no longer listed on the TIPS website as a qualifying institution.

Sweet!!! Now I can meet ugly, intellectually snobby virgins to try to get with!!!!! How exciting . . .

Sweet!!! Now I can meet ugly, intellectually snobby virgins to try to get with!!!!! How exciting . . .

I see Georgetown made the list, but what about other Catholic schools like Villanova and Notre Dame?

243: According to those same rankings (USNews, BusinessWeek, and Forbes) from 2008, Emory was 24, 23, and 23 that year. Emory is a decent enough business school, but sorry, it's never been a top 5 business program. Schools in the top 5 discussion include HBS, GSB,, Kellogg, Wharton, Sloan, Haas, and Tuck. Emory just isn't in that league.

Oh, you meant undergraduate business program -- err, those aren't typically that vigorous beyond say Wharton ugrad. But yes, you're right that Emory has a top 5 ugrad business program -- my mistake.

If I were an enterprising child psychologist, I would sneak into these events and network. The kids resulting from the unions formed at these events will need a lot of work.

SUNY Maritime is the best for merchant seamen.

The private vs. state dividing line doesn't really make sense when we're talking about the top schools. Schools like Berkeley, Michigan and especially UVA get very little money from the state, have major capital campaigns just like private schools and charge private school tuition for out-of-staters. These are "state schools" in name only.

What about Emory - it's a top 20 school? Williams??? Are you joking? Typical Northeastern bullshit.

249 - Villanova? This list is for a social/dating club, not a basketball tournament.

ATL Editor:

Please don't vouch for us.

-NYU Males.

@195: from what I've seen of the "Big 10 experience," it consists of getting drunk at 6 AM every Saturday during the fall, going to packed, overpriced bars full of girls wearing tights like they were actual pants, and then getting a job at Quicken Loans after graduation...if at all.

189 - I suppose there's a select few people that would turn down Yale for Middlebury. But knowing both student bodies well, I bet that these few people are so wealthy and connected that they could go to Wichita State and it wouldn't matter. So they're not really facing the choices we're talking about when we compare schools.

258 ftw

By the way, most of these "liberal arts" colleges are pathetic places filled with Ivy League rejects whose parents were fleeced into paying huge tuition bills so their kids could feel good about making the second tier. These are backup schools.

260, not even close.

Disclaimer, I matriculated from Carleton and also worked in their admissions office.

We routinely turned away applicants who had already been early-admitted at ivys. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and so on and so forth.

No satisfaction like getting to tell a young douche-ling that they're not "Carleton material." 'Cause they were too douche-tastic.

No self-respecting Carl would be caught dead at one of these tacky-ass "TIPS" events.

To # 254 - No private versus public school dividing line, eh? I went to UVA Law School and it seemed every bit of a state school to me; otherwise, why did they have a requirement that 60 percent of those matriculated be from in-state? As to the undergraduate UVA, forget about the comparison to the Ivies - all the Lacoste shirt wearing and pathetic posturing "preppy" lifestyles won't cut the mustard, which is still "Frenches" in Charlottesville versus "Grey Poupon" at Princeton or Cambridge.

261: It's called Yield Protection or Tufts Syndrome. You knew they were extremely unlikely to matriculate at Carleton vs. an Ivy or Stanford so you preemptively rejected them to keep your school's acceptance rate down and boost its yield. What's your point?

263: Nope, I'm only talking about applicants already early-admitted to an ivy. YP doesn't apply. Believe it or not, a lot of kids choose to attend good LOC's rather than ivys, maybe they don't like popped collars, I don't know.

"As for liberal arts colleges, who the hell has heard of any of them?"

Those who have a decent education.

I'm trying to be cool on this, but where is SMU?

This is so TTT. Real geniuses meet their dates in MENSA.

74-

Wrong. You fail to understand that these people are merely narrowing the dating pool. By no means are they implying every person attending will be a genius or have a great personality, but by narrowing the pool with a higher average intelligence you are more likely to connect with someone who is intelligent.

Just because someone who didn't graduate high school is a genius, doesn't make this fact any less true. Your average ivy-leaguer is more intelligent than the average joe or jane schmoe you meet at a bar.

-64

p.s. I don't even go to an ivy

These douchebags will do us a favor by removing themselves from the gene pool by only dating at sausage fests.

Just for the record, I would place my Boston-area Independent School League education as more intellectually rigorous (and far more rewarding) than either my top 5 lib arts college or my T14 law school education.

As an Emory grad, I'm relieved we're not on this list.

By the way I date only law review.

Just kidding, law review girls were awful. I actually only date girls from SEC schools.

Totally ripped off from IvyGateBlog

http://www.ivygateblog.com/2009/10/new-matchmaking-society-aims-to-provide-future-designer-babies/

This is a good alternative to JDate, which is just a stepping stone to swine flu that pretends to be a matchmaking website.

272: Nobody cares. IvyGate is shit. It was decent back in 2007 or so (the Chris/Nick days), then got worse with each new set of editors and each terrible redesign. It's been basically unreadable for the last year and a half.

Note to ATL editors: A Ivy-centric blog that sucks somewhat less than IvyGate would probably do very well.

Marshall Dennehey, Narberth to $43 K !

274 - I agree. I doubt the ATL editors were reading IvyGate (since nobody else does).

264: Excluding Cornell, I can't see this happening that often. They're aren't hordes of liberal arts college students turning down Brown, Dartmouth (which are liberal artsy themselves). for the likes of Carleton, Wellesley, Bowdoin, Haverford, Davidson, MIddlebury, etc. Yes, Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore may take some away from the lower Ivies, but the amount of exaggeration on this thread is baffling. Most LAC students didn't get into a non-Cornell Ivy -- otherwise, they'd be going to said Ivy. This is backed up by the Revealed Preference rankings as well.

And, students who already were accepted early to a Yale, Harvard, Stanford would have zero reason to apply to a liberal arts college in 99% of cases. Of course you would reject them as a means of yield protection. Even the Revealed Preferences among Ivies showed a huge bias for Harvard, Yale. Maybe 1 or 2 out of 100 students who get into both Yale and Carleton are going to pick Carleton.

Having dated both Ivy Leaguers and Big 10 Staters, I would take a Big 10 Frat Stud any day of the week and twice on football saturdays. They are better looking, more charming, and much, much better in bed. AND they know how to shotgun a beer.

Faber College would have been on this list, if it weren't for those scoundrels at Delta Tau Chi. To think of this august institution overrun by the likes of Stratton and Blutarsky...heavens!

This TIPS Clubs is a dandy idea. Harvard, Yale, Princeton be warned: when the slobs triumph over the snobs, nothing is ever the same.

--James Daughton, ΩΘΠ, '62

Don't have time to read all of the comments, but hopefully someone pointed out that TIPS was started by two attorneys. I'm guessing they're making a good deal of $, too: they have pretty well-attended events in DC, NYC, SF, and LA for which they collect a cover fee of $10 to $20 Costs are minimal--I don't think the venues charge them to host (the bars/hotels/wherever are just happy to have people in the door) and advertising fees are low (webpage hosting is cheap). Wish I had thought of it!

i love how they include berkeley but not UCLA or UCSD. are they purposely going out of their way to create the ugliest "talent" pool possible?

Wow! Go to the website of the group and look through the event photos. Everyone (few exceptions) is either ugly, Asian (no offense), or a dude.

Not cool.

Sounds like it isn't much of a change from a day on the MIT campus.

95 wins!!!

Cambridge, but no Oxford or LSE? Senseless.

Omitting Northwestern, Emory, Wash U, Rice and Notre Dame is also ridiculous. The same goes for Amherst, Swarthmore, etc. Just goes to show that snobbery =/= logical...

281: Uh, the idea is to include smart people from elite institutions -- looks have nothing to do with it or else we'd be inviting the girls from ASU, etc.. Berkeley, especially its grad schools meets the elite institution standard. UCLA is a reasonably good school, but doesn't quite match up with the others on the list. UCSD was never in the discussion in the first place.

284: The updated list (http://www.ivyplussociety.org/362dir/about.html) includes Northwestern, Amherst, and LSE.

I agree that Oxford not being included is idiotic. However, the rest of the schools on your list shouldn't be included except maybe Swarthmore and to a lesser extent, Rice. Emory is overrated, WashU is the champion of USNews rankings gaming (VERY overrated, with sucky grad/career placement), and ND is overrated (sans its football history, it wouldn't be in the discussion at all).

My college and law school are both on the list, but, I've got to tell you, I'm laughing at the morons who are getting all worked up about how watered down things might become if you let Wellesley or (egads) Pomona into the party.

Dudes, where you went to college doesn't mean shit. Sorry, but it doesn't. Where you went to grad school matters to your career and hence your life, but not so much where you went to college.

I know a guy - making a couple of million a year in Investment Banking - who didn't do college at all. He went to work for a franchised restaurant company out of high school, and by the time he was 21 he was over 100 restaurants. Chicago took him into its biz school without a college degree. He aced that, and it's been upward and onward ever since. I know guys who clerked for the same Supreme Court justice I clerked for who went to nowhere state schools or unheard of liberal arts colleges undergrad, and then nailed Harvard or Yale law. No one cares where any of these folks went to college; you pathetic little associates trotting off to your Ivy mixers still crawl into their offices and hope they aren't about to fire your ass. I know another fellow clerk who went to a pretty mediocre state school and state law school (one of those belittled third tier toilets) who was really liked by his circuit court judge and was pushed for the Supreme Court clerkship that he got. He was a partner at a couple of different top ten law firms before going inhouse with a then small tech company; last I looked, he had cashed out about $100 million in stock.

In my secret society that I belonged to in college, we had old guys who came back for the reunion/homecoming type dinners. The more they were into where they went to college, the less they had done since. The folks who really, really wanted to talk about where they went to college were pretty much all folks whose lives had peaked the day they got the fat envelope. The guys who wrote best selling books, got elected to high office, ran major companies - they talked about what they did after college, not about how cool it was getting into college.

Point is, get over yourselves. You just mock yourself by acting like doing well in high school and getting accepted into an Ivy is the be all and end all. Going to Yale or Harvard (or, I hear, Grinnell) is a nice experience in and of itself, but it doesn't mean shit about what's going to happen in the rest of your life.

My college and law school are both on the list, but, I've got to tell you, I'm laughing at the morons who are getting all worked up about how watered down things might become if you let Wellesley or (egads) Pomona into the party. Even funnier are the ones debating the fine points of School Y versus School X like they were picking players for rotisserie football.

Dudes, where you went to college doesn't mean shit. Sorry, but it doesn't. Where you went to grad school matters to your career and hence your life, but not so much where you went to college.

I know a guy - making a couple of million a year in Investment Banking - who didn't do college at all. He went to work for a franchised restaurant company out of high school, and by the time he was 21 he was over 100 restaurants. Chicago took him into its biz school without a college degree. He aced that, and it's been upward and onward ever since. (And, by the way, he's not a Babbit; he's a smart, intellectual guy who just took a different path.) I know guys who clerked for the same Supreme Court justice I clerked for who went to nowhere state schools or unheard of liberal arts colleges undergrad, and then nailed Harvard or Yale law. No one cares where any of these folks went to college; you pathetic little associates trotting off to your Ivy mixers still crawl into their offices and hope they aren't about to fire your ass. I know another fellow clerk who went to and aced a pretty mediocre state school and state law school (one of those belittled third tier toilets) who was really liked by his circuit court judge and was pushed for the Supreme Court clerkship that he got. He was a partner at a couple of different top ten law firms before going inhouse with a then small tech company; last I looked, he had cashed out about $100 million in stock.

In my secret society that I belonged to in college, we had old guys who came back for the reunion/homecoming type dinners. The more they were into where they went to college, the less they had done since. The folks who really, really wanted to talk about where they went to college were pretty much all folks whose lives had peaked the day they got the fat envelope. The guys who wrote best selling books, got elected to high office, ran major companies - they talked about what they did after college, not about how cool it was getting into college.

Point is, get over yourselves. Maybe you just lost your job and career, and only hold onto your last shred of self respect because you think your college degree really, really matters, but you are just deceiving yourself. You just mock yourself by acting like doing well in high school and getting accepted into an Ivy is the be all and end all. Going to Yale or Harvard (or, I hear, Grinnell) is a nice experience in and of itself, but it doesn't mean shit about what's going to happen in the rest of your life.

No art schools or music schools, such as Julliard, on the list.

Middlebury is awesome - its one of THE best universities in the country which is why it has so many people who turned down HYP as well as Amherst/Swarthmore/Williams.

Jesus, watching people debate the merits of these institutions in response to this thread just makes you cringe.

Guys, if you're thinking about where a prospective mate went to school as a qualifier for anything, anything at all, you're an idiot. There are plenty of hotter, reasonably intelligent women at more fun institutions that are looking for guys like you and that don't have the issues most women in the Ivy League have. ROI for a girl who knows how and when to let go, as evinced by not spending her late teens and early 20s in the library, is DRAMATICALLY higher than on the self-entitled, neurotic snowflakes who fill the Ivy League. Not that there aren't attractive, great girls in the Ivy League too, but screening on this basis is actively unproductive IMHO.

-- 95, HLS

you all miss the point. College is a scam, regardless of institution. Carry on, sheep.

290: Yeah, between your post and the HLS (189), SLS (194), and YLS (214) students from "Midd" posting the exact same story about how pleasant it was and how smart the Midd kids were vs. their law school classmates, how could you not be convinced that Midd is the shit? And really, who wouldn't want to be in the middle of bumblefuck Vermont for four years?

256, I'm not sure where you live, but I live in Philadelphia, and in our region Villanova is definitely known as a prestigious school.

294: A decent enough school, sure, but sorry, places with ~40% acceptance rates are not, by definition, considered prestigious.

295: Villanova's business school is ranked #11 by Business Week (higher than Georgetown's and Boston College). The engingeering school is very highly rated. Its nursing school is also highly rated. Villanova has been ranked #1 in the northeast region for non-PhD schools for about 15 years now.

Villanova is more of a regional school. In the Philadelphia region Villanova is definitely considered prestigious, regardless of the admit rate. Sorry. That's just the way it is. I know it upsets you.

296: Yes, the qualifier "in the Philadelphia region." Unfortunately, that's not saying much, if anything. The University of North Dakota is definitely considered prestigious in North Dakota -- what's your point? Prestige takes into account reputation beyond region, or else everyone can say StateU is prestigious in my state.

And, I don't see Villanova's business school ranked under the BusinessWeek MBA rankings. The REAL business school rankings are for MBA, NOT undergrad business programs. Aside from Wharton, ugrad business programs are a load of crap and inherently unprestigious.

Finally, non-PhD schools are inherently unprestigious. This is a post about the top schools in the nation. It's even a stretch to include much beyond the top three liberal arts colleges. Non-PhD schools shouldn't be entering the conversation in the first place -- it's like a Double A team winning its minor league championship and suddenly thinking it can compete with the teams in the majors.

What on earth is GEORGETOWN doing on that list??? it's ranked below Vanderbilt, which is not on the list. It's way harder to get into a school like Middlebury or Bowdoin, but those aren't on the list. What a joke!

OK 297, I'm not taking you seriously anymore.

297: OK, with terms like "inherently unprestigious" I realize that I should not take you seriously.

Why? Because there is no such thing as "inherently unprestigious." Prestige is based upon perception and reputation. Nothing about pretige is "inherent" in any manner whatsoever.

Barnard is part of Columbia University, so Barnard women would qualify.

300: The whole premise of the TIPS list was prestigious from a NATIONAL perspective. TIPS is a national group that hosts events in major metropolitan cities. The average LA, SF, DC, NYC grad of a school on the TIPS list is unequivocally not going to consider Villanova in the same category if they've even heard of it (most people not knowing that a school even exists = not prestigious school). Even with Philly, I bet it would be stretch -- Penn would be Philly's elite school.

Yes, if there was some TIPS group based solely around Philly, then perhaps Villanova would be a suitable inclusion. That's not what TIPS is though -- it's focused on schools with national / international prestige, not schools with a more regional reputation. So yes, as a regional school, Villanova is unprestigious from a national perspective, and therefore, it's not included in TIPS. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about this.

302: you obviously aren't from Philly, and you don't know anything about the area.

Villanova is a great school. Bottom line. Yes, it's really that simple.

Sorry man, nova's a pretty good school.

303: Trust me, I'm proud of that fact. Philly is a second tier, crime-ridden cesspool of an east coast city on par with Baltimore, as opposed to the real cultural centers of the northeast: NYC, DC, and Boston.

According to the Villanova website, CALIFORNIA is one of its highest states for enrollment. Villanova is in Philadelphia. California is way, way, out on the West Coast. Get your facts right. If a lot of people all the way out in California actually go to Villanova, then I'm sure most of the country has heard of the school.

Period. End of story. End of book. Book closed! (dust in the air)

Wow, I really hope you didn't use that logic on the LSAT. California also just happens to be the most populous state -- what a coincidence! You could look at most half decent schools and California would be way up there on the enrollment list.

And, seriously, that's quite a jump from Villanova has some Californians going there, to most of the country has heard of the school. You're clearly applying what you learned at Villanova -- no doubt about that.

Like I said, the book is slammed shut, and the dust is in the air....

I used to date a girl from a TIPS school. At first she was really cool, then the mask came off. Uptight, overly concerned with what her friends thought and super passive aggressive. (the sex wasn't bad though)

Also, the friends (exclusively TIPS) seemed to start with the supposition that I was stupider than they were and acted accordingly. It's really a bizarre feeling to be debating complex socio-economic and political issues over dinner and being talked to like you are a 3 year old. Also, being grilled on my undergraduate education was repeatedly the starting point after any brief introduction.

On the flip side, the TIPS types follow a bit of a pattern. First, by and large they are a bit more intelligent than your average non TIPS person. Second, they tend to have better jobs. Third, among themselves, there appears to be an unwritten code of conduct consisting of gladhanding and back scratching. Fourth, by and large, when outside of fellow TIPS types, they are extremely uncomfortable. Fifth, they drink less and are less likely to use illegal drugs. Finally, there seems to be more of an emphasis on long term [fiscal] sustainability and superficial similarties (in relationships) than among the non TIPS.

It would be interesting to compare divorce rates for professionals from TIPS school vs. professionals from non-TIPS schools to see if there is any correlation between the TIPS approach and marriage rates.

Also, there seems to be a lot of hating towards the TIPS in this thread. It seems like the majority of TIPS students earned their accolades; no reason to hate on them for that; but a lot of them are douches, much like a lot of non-TIPS.

I invite this entire thread to enjoy an old-fashioned mustache-ride...courtesy of a Touro 1L

I find it appalling that this is even allowed to exist. The reality is, so few minorities or poor people are even are accepted to Ivy League schools, what you have effectively created is a white/affluent mating society so that whites/affluents will only mate with each other. Incredibly offensive. I would protest except that anyone who would join such a society is doing the rest of us a HUGE favor by ONLY dating and socializing with other people in that society, who are obviously as insane they are.

hi, this makes me want to puke. is arizona state an ivy league school?

311 & 312:

Please contact 310 for your mustache ride...you both need it.

311: Wow, WTF are you talking about? Ivy League schools play such flagrant games with racial quotas that you're always guaranteed, for example at Harvard, to have 7-10% blacks, 10-15% Asians, etc. If you "uncapped" racial groups and stopped playing affirmative action games, all schools would look like Berkeley and be 30-40% Asian. If anything, you stand a much better shot getting into an Ivy League school playing the "first in family to go to college, poor minority" card, than you do if you're regular middle class. So, give me a break about this "no minorities or poor people go to Ivies" myth. It may have been true 20 years ago, but the pendulum has shifted in the other direction.

The face that Middlebury and Carleton and other LOCs are not getting the respect they deserve invalidates this stupid TIPS concept.

I got into Middlebury and numerous Ivy League schools when I applied and decided to go to Middlebury because of its better learning environment. If they combined all of the US News college rankings into one master ranking - the liberal arts collegs would dominate the top 10.

Oh, and Middlebury students are actually good looking as opposed to the typical Ivy troll.

315: It's called the Revealed Preference rankings and it measures where students actually go when they have the choice between two colleges (search Google). Sans Amherst and to a lesser extent, Swarthmore, LACs don't dominate:

1 Harvard
2 Yale
3 Stanford
4 Cal Tech
5 MIT
6 Princeton
7 Brown
8 Columbia
9 Amherst
10 Dartmouth
11 Wellesley
12 U Penn
13 U Notre Dame
14 Swarthmore
15 Cornell
16 Georgetown
17 Rice
18 Williams
19 Duke
20 U Virginia
21 Northwestern
22 Pomona
23 Berkeley
24 Georgia Tech
25 Middlebury

All you "Midd" shills, enjoy your place behind Georgia Tech.

316: Middlebury students, much like their University of Vermont peers, probably eschew showers, so I don't think their looks are going to matter.

Is there a dating club for people from TTT undergrads who crush all the Ivy Leaguers at T1 law schools? The Ivy League undergrads are worthless at my school.

What's with all the anti-Villanova stuff? Some people really don't know much about Catholic colleges. Here's how it works for Catholic high school students: first you have Georgetown, Notre Dame, and Boston College. Those are the big three Catholic schools for high school students. Immediately below those three stands Villanova, which is really a "Catholic college safety net." Catholic students know this. Villanova is filled with tons of students who couldn't get into those big three mentioned. I went to Villanova and heard story after story about "oh I didn't get into Georgetown"...or Notre Dame, or BC. Villanova is more than happy to take these students, because if you're apply to those "big three", you're probably pretty smart to begin with. Bottom line: Villanova is a very solid Catholic school.

Ultimately, this is kind of sad. All these young douche bags wanting to argue, my school is better than your school.

It doesn't matter. If you had a good experience at college, great. If you think anyone is going to give a rat's ass in ten years where you went, think again.

If you go to Harvard undergrad but don't get into a top ten law school (assuming law is what you do), do you really think anyone is going to be impressed that you were one of the Harvard admission board's mistakes? You got a chance to play in the bigs, didn't measure up, and got kicked back down. Meanwhile, somebody from Texas Tech or Allegheny is sliding into what you thought was going to be your seat at Harvard Law, and from here on out you are their bitch. Trust me on this.

Even if you do Harvard Yale all the way, if you don't make partner, and end up at some insurance defense firm in San Diego, who gives a shit that you have Ivy degrees? You are still doing crappy insurance defense work in San Diego.

Get over yourself. There are so many brilliant people who never set foot in an Ivy, and so many not that brilliant people who do incredibly well in life because, well, intelligence is overrated. Things like character and hard work matter more in the end.

This isn't sour grapes, btw. I'm Ivy all the way. I've just seen them come and seen them go, and it's not about who sent you an acceptance letter while you were still in high school.

319: The anti-Villanova stuff is in response to flagrant Villanova trolling. No one is saying that Villanova isn't a decent school overall or a pretty good Catholic school. However, the Villanova boostering is a bit out of control and it's discrediting the school's case.

This is a post about the best of the best -- pretty much the Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, the top top LACs (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore), the top top publics (Berkeley, UVA, perhaps Michigan), and a few other highly regarded schools (ex, Hopkins, Northwestern, Duke, Chicago). There's nothing wrong with Villanova, but you're absolutely delusional if you're putting it in the same categories as those types of places.

320: I completely agree. I'm much more impressed with StateU ugrad --> HYSCCN law than I am with Ivy ugrad --> T20-T30 law. And like you say, an Ivy / top law degree merely opens the door -- if you don't take advantage of the opportunities it can provide, you'll easily be looped by those below who are much hungrier and have a chip on their shoulders for not getting into as good of schools.

Finally, during the early part of your life, the later you peak the better. No one is impressed with the kid whose parents bought his way into an elite private school but who only got into a middling overpriced college. The same is true about the kid who went to HYP, but couldn't crack a T14 law school. Yes, going to a top ugrad or law school is impressive, but living in the past is not. People from much crappier places will speed ahead of you if you give them the chance.

Villanova is an awesome school. Ignore the haters.

323: Yeah, Villanova is clearly Ivy / MIT / Caltech / Stanford caliber and definitely deserves to be referenced in this post about the absolute best schools. When people think of the cream of the crop, the most elite, the most prestigious, they think of... Villanova!

You should go hang out with the Middlebury trolls and discuss what it felt like to go to one of the nation's two best schools and turn down all those Ivy League acceptances for your alma mater.

In terms of Catholic schools, Villanova is pretty high up there, right below Notre Dame and Georgetown.

It's great to see all the Villanova students/alum defend our school.

Those of you who feel the need to confirm your ivy-ness / educational pedigree while feigning disgust at whatever idiotic topic the rest of you are discussing ... you all realize that you're just as douchey as the people who go to this TIPS crap, right?

Just checking.

People, get back to billing. This is retarded.

325: You Villanova trolls need to give it a rest. Even if we're strictly talking Catholic colleges, Villanova is also beneath BC and Holy Cross at the very least. The classic big three Catholic institutions are Georgetown, ND, and BC. If you want a top Catholic liberal arts experience, you got to Holy Cross. Only then, after you're unable to get into any of those schools, would you even begin to consider Villanova.

Fat chicks need love too

Amen, 241 - and talk about a worthless education! I'd give anything to get back the money and time I spent at William and Mary. Apparently, I *should* have chosen the Naval Academy instead.

As for Williams, they belong on the list. Biggest bunch of pretentious good-for-nothings I've ever encountered ... far worse than any of the real Ivy Leaugers.

Astonishing: the further down one goes in the comments, the more this is taken seriously!

327: I agree with everything you're saying...I go to Gtown... but to go even a step further, I'd consider Fordham, Santa Clara University, University of San Diego, and even St. John's before I go for Villanova. Why is Villanova even in the conversation?

327: I agree with everything you're saying...I go to Gtown... but to go even a step further, I'd consider Fordham, Santa Clara University, University of San Diego, and even St. John's before I go for Villanova. Why is Villanova even in the conversation?

I heard it's harder to get into NYU Film School than it is to get into Harvard...

I don't care about school per se but I only seriously date women who had 1300+ SATs (old scale)