it's not noon yet; i'm impressed you can type with cinnabun icing on your fingers.

Suck my ass, Mystal, you race bating, manatee molesting, Walrus!

Good lord. The carnage continues.

Pours some Mickey's Big Mouth onto the ground to honor the fallen.

*pours some Mickey's Big Mouth onto the ground to honor the fallen*

Dissolution incoming.

How the once relatively mighty have fallen. I remember in 1998, walking into a DB conference room all decked-out in marble, brushed metal, glass and wood paneling. What idiot clients are paying for all this? I guess now we have an answer.

The cuts to first-year salaries were not made to help save senior associate positions. They were meant to pad partner profits.

7, what makes you believe that Drinker is heading toward dissolution? Please do tell. I ask because many firms are laying off attorneys and cutting salaries. What makes these moves by Drinker different than those?

Drinker? I hardly know her.

Wow, that's a pretty big cut. When is this carnage going to end???

DBR philadelphia associate here. This post has so many errors its not even worth commenting on. I don't know who ATL's "multiple tipsters" were, but they don't know very much.

I'm sure all those associates will land on their feet. Kudos to Brinker Diddle for making a tought but necessary decision

13 = Shafeef.

13 - go on.

I would be interested to hear about what Shafeef would do to Kash at Drinker.

13 --

I would like to believe you, but that would be pretty hard to do without further details. I'm not a huge supporter of ATL, but from what I can tell, their reporting of layoffs has been fairly accurate.

So please elaborate...

I GUESS THEY'LL BE DRINKIN BIDDLE TONIGHT!!1!1!1

- ROFL

Would it be poor form to attend a Halloween party in blackface as a walrus?

Only $105,000? Boy, that's an impressive salary for most Americans...

Is this the end of Biglaw, you ask? I don't really think that the end can be assessed as of itself, as being the end, because what does the end feel like? It's like trying to extrapolate the end of the universe. If the universe is indeed infinite, then what does that mean? How far is all the way and then if it stops what's stopping it and what's behind what's stopping it? So "What is the end?" is my question to you.

"Apparently, some law firm problems can’t be fixed by cutting first year salaries."

This is an astute observation. Firms need to adopt my hybrid tough love package in order to ensure survival and the preservation of PPP. The Commissar's anemic economy has presented a golden opportunity in that we now control the criteria to fire/hire and lower salaries without sacrificing talent. There are many unemployed attorneys with excellent credentials. We can simply interchange dissatisfied and unmotivated cogs (i.e., those that are unhappy with salary cuts) with those that haven't worked or are willing to work to fend off depression and suicide. DB gets a nod and a salute from this old timer.

PE just told me that he "wants to do it until the sun comes up." He went on to say that he "wants to do it until he can't do it no more."

What is this all about?

Mystal, do you ever get tired of Eskimos hunting you with spears?

Trig Palin

hey 13 - you are obviously out of the loop. I'm also in the Philly office and this IS true. Get out of your office and take a walk around. Clearly you haven't left for office in a while.

操所有擂奥夫人的所的大爷

深深的

Gee, bill 2,000 hours, which means working at least 3,000. That's about $35.00 per hour.

Pretty sad to go $150,000 in debt for a $35/hr job.

Looks like PE's acid trip from yesterday is over. Back to just being a butthole

13: I don't buy it. You have the time to log on and read the post. The post itself is brief, and contains relatively few statements of fact. You have the time to write a brief comment. However, the supposed errors in the post--what undermine its depiction of DBR-- are "not even worth commenting on".

So what's your position? Did you escape the axe--this time--and wish to reassure yourself that your employer is not as layoff-happy as it seems?

"But tipsters report that the significant cut to first year salary did not ending up saving the jobs of more senior associates"

"Did not ending up", really? You must be doing this on purpose.

25 for the win.

28 - that's very inefficient. you need to keep your head in the game and quit daydreaming.

Philadelphia DBR associate (not 13) here. I was laid off yesterday and can confirm the 3 months' salary and continued access to the office. I'm in a transactional department.

Two things:

1. "They get intensive training, but are ONLY paid $105,000." Really Mystal?!?!?! That sounds like a pretty sweet deal considering that for the past three years these virgin lawyers have been paying $35,000 to $65,000 a year for marginally useful training.

2. What DB is doing is no different then what we've been doing at my firm for years. You start the new hiring season with intensive training, except for us its firm wide.[FN1] Then at the end of summer camp, I mean the training period, management assesses the whole firm and makes cuts in areas that didn't perform up to expectations. We then start the new year strong, but trail off shortly thereafter.

[FN1}with the exception of the occasional prima donna holdout

Doesn't sound like 13 has much credibility. If you are going to make blanket statements, you better be prepared to back them up. Or don't say anything in the first place.

Doesn't sound like 13 has much credibility. If you are going to make blanket statements, you better be prepared to back them up. Or don't say anything in the first place.

33, agree, but do think that billing 2,000 hours includes a LOT of non-billable, but required, time (firm committee/recruiting/citizenship stuff, CLE, timesheets, de facto mandatory firm events, conferences, non-billable (or reduced billing for) travel, etc.).

Maybe closer to 2300 - 2500 for 2000 billables. Which still means a relatively low per hour salary given the barriers to entry one must surmount and deal with on an ongoing basis (law school, debt, bar exam, ethical/malpractice concerns, etc.).

Wow 28, you must be the most inefficient associate ever. Generally it takes about 20% more actual hours to reach a particular number of billable hours (e.g. 2400 actual hours for 2000 billables). I know really efficient associates who go as low as 10%. If you're working 3000 hours to reach 2000 billable hours, you're reading way too much ATL.

Mission Accomplished!

Mystal sometimes walks around completely unaware that he has spears sticking out of his incredibly fat walrus hide.

38,

I see people mention they work 60-70 hours per week to get 2000 billable hours.

50 weeks x 60 weeks = 3000 hours.

What the devil is wrong with you people? Do you really get your rocks off by typing insults to someone you have never met? What sad, pathetic little lives you losers must have. I like to read these comments for information, once in a while a funny joke and the odd ATL meme. I don't need to read about your issues with weight, typos and the color of a person's skin. If you don't like the articles, please feel free to read one of the many other billions of web sites on the 'Net. But, PE is still a tremendous asshole.

42, you only have few more weeks before you need to start outlining for finals. Good luck to you.

"3 months' salary and continued access to the office"

Come on DBR. Just man-up and give the associates their severance. That's why I'm here.

Agree with 43, far too many hateful comments posted on here that have no substance

Layoffs in Chicago? I find that hard to believe.

@46=racist walrus

48 proving the point of 46

The ship be sinking...

David,

To answer your question, this is not the end. As we know, there are always overseas markets like Japan if business dries up here.

Nigel

DBR litigation layoffs are today!

can anyone confirm if 52's post is accurate? are BK associates the only associates safe from layoffs?

So the meeting will begin with a discussion about the reduction in force, and end with an overview of the "reduction in salary." Wednesday should be a fun day for all DBR associates.

What a horrible place to work! Good luck to those who were let go - you are free at last! The rest should be meeting with a headhunter at lunch before its your turn to be RIFed!

53: What makes you think BK associates are safe? The Fed and Treasury are propping up the economy, and until they stop, the required bankruptcy wave cannot be expected to crest.

Nigel:

As much as the Land of the Rising Sun offered us salvation in our darkest hour, I believe that sushi boat might have sailed before our friends at DB had a chance to board.

DSH

54-DBR's not nearly as horrible as other law firms.

Seriously, when are biglaw associates going to stop whining? You weren't conscripted into law school... I also didn't hear any of them sympathizing with people laid off at biglaw clients in the past several months/years. Why should they expect others' sympathy now? Life's tough; get used to it. Oh, and f-ing get over yourselves, too.

What were the numbers in Chicago? What groups?

the patron saint of quality footwear

57, you were not listening: firm attorneys are acutely concerned with the business of clients because that's who pay us. And it is where our parents, spouses and friends work. Your paranoid mania that lawyers are an evil cult set on undermining your own fortunes, and which must be brought to justice under your wagging finger reflects your own apparent insecurities. In any event, no one is asking for non-lawyer sympathy regarding these layoffs---this is a legal blog with a lawyer-targeted audience, if you haven't noticed. So f-ing get over your assumed moral authority and pack up your boring cliches.

Where do these lay-offs leave the staff? Are they next?

13- Philly's Legal Intelligencer reported 22 layoffs with more to come. They are pretty reliable.

53- Burger King is not having layoffs. Elie made sure of that this morning with his breakfast order.

I lied, jobs died.

I'm Barack Obama?

Dear ABA,

This news is further indication that you need to accredit more schools and do it fast! Here in Philly, the Drinker layoffs, Morgan Lewis layoffs, WolfBlock shut-down, DA and PD hiring freeze and the shipping of Doc Review jobs to India are signs that accrediting Drexel's law program was the right decision for the Philadelphia legal community and the country at large.

My and my classmates here at Temple Law are overwhelmed with job offers, and pumping 3,000 additional lawyers into the Philly job market in the next 10 years is not nearly sufficient to match the demand for lawyers. We are relieved that you are considering accrediting a law school in Wilkes Bar, PA, but we urge you to consider accrediting Philadelphia Community College Law School as well as a law school my friend is opening in his basement.

Thank you for looking out for your members, I cannot wait to pay my bar fees!

Anyone know how many associates are left at DB? I'm just curious how many jobs Obama has "saved."

13 = PWNED BIG TIME!!!

Hey 13

The multiple tipsters are the 22 people who were laid off and their co-workers.

Sincerely,

Tired of ignorant DBR Associates

We should subtract 22 jobs from the 640k that were saved or created.

52: What were the numbers for the layoffs in litigation? Were they in Chicago?

28...The other mistake in your post is that the first years are not billing hours.

Further proof that only the very worst get terminated - the free market works.

Who moved my $160k?

65- Amen. 5-10 years ago when things were going relatively good, the ABA should have looked ahead and asked Philadelphia-area schools to consider decreasing their enrollments 10-20% and perhaps even tried to force Widener to cut its enrollment by 50%.

From a national perspective, the unusual glut (Widener, Penn, Penn St, Rutgers Camden, Temple, Villanova, Drexel etc) of law schools in and around a city like Philadelphia, which has been shrinking commericaly and industrially for years, was a problem waiting to happen.

All area schools have been letting in more and more students, and the ABA permitted Drexel to start a school.

The result is that there is nowhere to put most recent grads. It is just poor planning by people motivated by money and not common sense.

Many years ago I graduated from a California law school without a job, and I will tell you firsthand that I found my native Philadelphia legal market to be a very cold place devoid of opportunities when I returned to it. The old men who run the ABA and control the Philadelphia legal market are too busy counting money and rambling about judges they have argued before in the 1960s to even take notice of the unemployed grads. They really have no clue how tough it is out there, and their selfish, ignorant decisions continue to make things worse and worse on young grads.

Yes, of course, now that I'm a lawyer, please keep others from becoming lawyers.

Forget about Japan. I was laid off from an associate post at a large firm in Tokyo in July. The current count is that roughly 20% of all foreign lawyers in Tokyo are unemployed. Most are sitting around hoping the market will pick after January, but even if it does, native speakers get priority--no matter how poor their skills may be-- and the market will not pick up to the point that all 200+ people will find new jobs. Case in point, look at Paul Hastings. 7 months ago they had around 40 associates (estimated). Now they have 6 associates and 12 partners...

The 2009 - 2011 classes will become the lost classes. Firms hire when business expands and to replace associates that leave. With business cut-backs, there is no expansion and no in-house opportunities for experience associates to which to move.

Even worse no firm wants to show senior associates the door. They may not make them income partners, but they will not ask them to leave. If the associates made it to Yr 5 and above they have a modicum of skill that can be billed at full freight to the client. They also have had some face time in front of client, so that a business solicitation would not necessarily be rejected out of hand. At this point, losing even minor work would seriously affect some equity partners.

Provisionally Approved Law Schools (+):

+Atlanta's John Marshall Law School
+Charleston School of Law
+Charlotte School of Law
+Drexel University Earle Mack College of Law
+Elon University School of Law
+Faulkner University Thomas Goode Jones School of Law
+University of LaVerne College of Law
+Liberty University School of Law
+Phoenix School of Law

I just got word that I'll be starting in NYC on December 1, with the salary to remain solid at $175K plus bonus. I guess I can now safely rent a place and spend some additional money on clothes. I also would like to get a quick piece of ass to celebrate, but I'm not very popular with the babes, so I guess that will have to wait until I have some real folding money.

75- Step back from your cliched criticism for a moment and think about the situation- The lawyers who are already in the profession have jobs and experience and are not the ones who suffer from the increasing numbers of 1st year lawyers in the market. They actually benefit from it, because they can hire associates at lower salaries due to the high supply and low demand.

The ABA/old lawyers etc need to limit the numbers of those entering the profession so that the remaining smart-ass law students like yourself can have jobs.

Why is there no salary negotiation? Why don't the unemployed and laid off go to firms and offer to work for, say, 60-70% of what they are paying their associates? As any economist will tell you, there is a market clearing price. Is it better to be unemployed and getting no experience? Why do lawyers assume they are powerless to seek employment by offering to work harder for less? 70% of $200K is still $140K, more than 3x the national average.

This would never happen at Paul Hastings.

80 offers as flawed a suggestion as we are likely to hear. Limit the number of people entering the profession? That is ridiculous - anyone who meets the minimum requirements [degree & bar exam] gets to offer his/her services. The market will determine which lawyers find work and their salaries. If people don't like the available employment opportunities, they are free to choose another profession.

And why does 80 assume that 75 is a law student?

Not 75

Isn't prime dissolution time about here? The end of the year when all partnerships must balance their books and banks get a look at the non-performing loans?

I am a jobless 3L at Michigan and want to kill myself.

I was in the biotech industry and have an advanced science degree. I quit a 100k job to go to a T14 law school. The firm I was suppose to have joined as deferred me twice to at least March 2010. I was operating a leaf blower alongside an undocumented alien today for my cousin's landscaping business.

My fiancee who will graduate in 2011 from a T14 school also has an advanced science degree and couldn't get a single SA offer other than her first SA firm. Her summer mentor called her last week asking if she had any idea which firms may be hiring since in her (the mentor's) opinion the firm will in all likelihood dissolve.

85 please don't say things like that. It is really not your fault it is the economy. No business means fewer jobs. A lot of firms are still laying people off, staff, attorneys, all areas and yes, it is coming toward the end of the year and they are looking at the books and numbers and they are asking people ot leave. I have friends that are telling me their firms are letting people go quietly.

It will get better, possibly by the end of next year it will be better.

87 -

And what do we do if our offers get revoked? I'm a deferred 2009 grad. If my offer gets revoked, I am completely fucked. I'm smart enough to recognize the permanent damage this will do to my career.

Suicide is something that will happen and should be addressed.

Pepper Hamilton associate here....watch for Pepper to do similar actions soon

Why does Pepper Hamilton have so many offices?

It is actually a good fit for a merger with a NY, Chicago, or London based firm. The resulting carnage as NY offices are merged will not be pretty, but the rest would be good.

What about staff? How many, if any, were let go? If they have laid offlawyers I am sure they did the same to staff.

88, suicide is not the answer. So many people have the same debt issues you do that the banks, the government and others will forgive any mishaps there. You can rehab your career, it will just take some time. Break your problem into pieces you can control and get help for the things you cannot. This really will work out. Things are getting better, with jobs opening and I think firms will need people as people who stayed at their firms look to get out. People will get shuffled around. You are going through one of those times that seem impossble but you will look back and see you survived.

I feel bad for 79. He won't make it a year.

As a former colleague of the newly laid-off DBRs, I'm saddened by the news of this latest (but perhaps not the last) round. To remain safe in a large law firm right now you need one or more of the following: (a) a healthy (or unhealthy) connection to a high-billing senior partner, (b) absolute ownership of one or more firm-critical clients, or (c) blackmail photos. Legal skill is helpful but probably 20% of the mix. Actually, maybe 10%. However, there are clients (and work) to be found outside the friendly confines of Big Law, and plenty of ex-Big Law attorneys willing to try to ease the fall of the newly gangplanked. Best course is to be positive and network like crazy.