ridiculous. quinn = fail.

This would never happen in Texas

Lesson learned: Named QE partners are douchebags.

This is disgusting. From now on any time any law student I am mock interviewing or mentoring suggests having an offer from this firm, I will tell them about this email. (Same for laterals.) Humiliating someone like that is totally uncalled for. If it was so important the partner should have followed up directly. At the very least this lesson should have been taught face to face, like an adult.

What an asshole. I would bet this ridiculous email will cost the firm more business (and talent) than failing to fax something at 7:30pm.

Some day this recession's gonna end.

I love how he calls the associate "this kid" to the whole firm. Asshole.

That's ridiculous.

Absent the closing of a deal, an immediate filing, or a trial, 99% of everything else can wait until the morning.

Put your life in perspective. Associates are fungible and partners are fungible; work does not define life.

/s/former-biglaw associate currently in-house

The epitomy of douchebaggeriness. Did he really say "Thank god no one died because this kid didn’t fax a draft letter for review last night."

Really? Is Urquhart handling death penalty cases these days? And one other thing - if a task is important enough that it must get done OR ELSE, the supervising attorney should have the common sense to pick up the phone, especially if he or she does not receive a quick email confirmation back.

recession has ended.

I'm so glad I don't work at BigLaw and have to answer to ridiculous partners like that.

Gubmint secure

what rhymes with "douche"

Also, calling him a "kid" is so insulting. Suggesting that someone might die, or that faxing a letter is at all similar to saving a life is ridiculous. There may have been a way to email all of the associates with this lesson and not seem like such a jerk, but this tone shows me that the partners at this firm have no respect for the associates that slave away for them. (This is #5 again).

The firm-wide e-mail may have been harsh but not the message. It is ridiculous not to get an e-mail sent at 7:30 pm unless you are sick or have some other great excuse.

I call bullshit. What the hell is a "fax"?

I agree. The partner "assumed the task was done". Doesn't he know that when you assume you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". If the matter was so important he should have called the associate on his cell phone and not just sent a lazy email. Then to top it off he blames the associate publicly for his own shortcomings. What an ass (and I am a partner).

why would anyone want to work for assholes like this?

This poor associate better start sending out resumes tomorrow. His career at QE is unfortunately finished.

I have no problem checking my email every hour until bed. In general, I do this. But I do have a problem with a douche of a partner who seriously thinks random draft sent over for comment & review is the sort of "emergency" that warrants after-hours time. This was not a court filing under deadline or a closing.

He says it was "no harm no foul" -- right, douche, so shut the eff up about it. It was exactly the sort of thing that could wait until morning.

I would suggest a change of name for the partner because "Urquhart" sounds like squirrel farts

Maybe the partner forgot he also has a phone. If this un-faxed fax was important enough to call out the associate on, it was important enough for the partner to:
a) Call the associate, OR
b) Include a line indicating that the associate should reply to indicate he read an received said email. If no reply in 15-30 min, follow up with a call (see "a").

Email is good, but not the same as a phone call if you must have assurances that the associate is aware of the task you are assigning. If you are so self important, do both next time, you enormous d-bag.

10 (and 17) says it best.

P.S. 17, can I have a job?

We need a this sucks but true button.

5's got it right. The partner states the reality of the business. But there is no need to broadcast it to all attorneys firm-wide under any circumstances.

Just more proof that partner-level lawyers have little idea how to manage employees.

Looks safe to say, this partner reacted poorly.

What's with the backslash in "24\7"?

William Urquhart's pretentious, ponderous e-mail regarding the near tardiness of an admittedly inconsequential "draft letter for review" inspires the question: on which day did God create Urquhart, and couldn't He have rested then too?

If the wanker was going to burn up thousands of dollars' worth of billable time and disrupt the firm's work environment by inspiring hours of gossip and whodunnit talk amongst the staff, he could have at least taken the trouble to check the subject line of his e-mail for errors.

I would suggest a change of name for the partner because "Urquhart" sounds like squirrel farts

This partner started his career at Cravath. That explains a lot.

There is no need to check every hour. Put your blackberry on vibrate so you'll hear/feel it if something comes in. Then check it once before you go to bed, just in case you missed one.

If it was really that important, the partner could have done it himself (and billed accordingly).

This episode exemplifies the worst of BigLaw.

You couldn't pay me any money to work for a douchebag like that. That's even with $250,000 in student law debt. Life's too short for this picayune crap.

Partner also was Fordham undergrad and Fordham law school. THAT says even more.

You all lazy. I check blackberry all day when in rice field and all night when making rice cake soup. You get emails all time from people want rice cake soup or cabbage roll or something, or want laundry done right away, steam press. They give you blackberry for reason, you need use it.

From Quinn's website:

"We value each other. We consider it our good fortune to work with lawyers whom we not only respect professionally, but enjoy as colleagues and friends. We unwind on Fridays with beer, food and music chosen through hallway chatter. We don’t care for bureaucracy. Orderly chaos suits us better. Running an idea by a partner does not require the equivalent of arranging a Papal audience."

Really? Respect? Colleagues? This is not how you show respect to colleagues.

The associate should respond with a firmwide email about checking for spelling and grammar mistakes before sending firmwide emails condemning others' mistakes.

Ditto with 20. I check my BB before I go to bed and when I get up. But the problem I have is the partner assuming the associate's in the office at 7:30 at night. If the associate has nothing to do, why shouldn't he leave at 6:30 or 7? Then, assuming he gets this e-mail, is he supposed to come back to the office to send this fax? I guess the right response would be to let the partner know that he's left and ask if it's worth his time (and the $$ he's going to bill the client) to come back. Still, poor kid. I would be so embarrassed if I were him that I would want the earth to swallow me whole. And no way in hell would I stay at QE.

You can take the kid out of Fordham, but you can't take the Forham out of the kid.

You can take the kid out of Fordham, but you can't take the Fordham out of the kid.

I play brick breaker every time a take a dump.

LESSON NUMBER TWO: Never hire quinn emanual. Ever. They only capitalize their lesson numbers.

Yo dawg, you better check you emails! For real real.

What a lame non-story. Is this news that BigLaw lawyers should be available all the time?

Although not a peer firm, QE's memo is a spot on reminder that associates' souls belong to the firm long after you leave the office. If you want to act the part and be compensated as a professional, you are expected to act like one at ALL times. I don't care if you are on your knees getting buggered by a homeless person, you are expected to check your smartphone periodically. That is all.

42: no, it's news to blow up a specific associate.

ps: CHECK YOU EMAILS

QE just dumped a bucket of fail over itself.

Word the partner -- just because we think this way doesn't mean you make an example of someone in an email to the firm, you asshole.

Funny thing, Mr. Urquhart doesn't take this teachable moment to talk about his own mistake. "I assumed the task was done."

LESSON NUMBER TWO: Never assume anything. You'll just end making an a** out of you and me.

Funny thing, Mr. Urquhart doesn't take this teachable moment to talk about his own mistake. "I assumed the task was done."

LESSON NUMBER TWO: Never assume anything. You'll just end making an a** out of you and me.

Although perhaps a little over the top, this email is just desserts. I am a third year at a large firm in Washington. I like working for a firm, because the billable has a fabulous way of dividing the mice and the men, and I bust my ass to succeed. Because I make ungodly amounts of money, busting my ass means checking messages before I go to bed and immediately when I wake up. Nothing pisses me off more than associates who decide that either they don't want to or are too brilliant to be forced to play the game. That's cool. You don't like the law firm thing? Fine. Then don't work there. You don't get to collect the giant checks and then act like a government lawyer. Deal with the demands of the job or find another.

In all likelihood, the associate probably got the email on his blackberry that night and decided, as the partner admits, that the request was not urgent and could wait until the morning. I suppose the partner needs to learn to make it clear if something is URGENT. And if it is, he should, as a partner, make sure it gets done. Where the hell was he at 7:30pm.

I'd say faxing is for secretaries, but well, everyone has fired their secretaries.

what a d-bag. what else would expect from quinn though? look like ole billy photoshoped his website photo too. man must be immense.

This specific email from Urquhart is impulsive, unprofessional and embarrassing to the Quinn firm. To the extent the topic needed to be addressed firmwide and via email, then an email should have been addressed from "Management" stating the expectation about blackberries, but not referencing the specific incident.

That would have addressed the problem; therefore, Mr. Urquhart obviously wanted to do something OTHER than attempt solving the problem: He wanted to rant and ridicule, which is unprofessional and makes the firm look bad. He also displayed poor judgment by rushing to send out that email, rather than follow the rule about thinking before hitting "send."

As for the actual problem (which Urquhart did not handle properly)....yes, it is reasonable to expect that an associate on a deal would, if going out to eat/work out/whatever at 7:00 or so, at least check email before going to bed. If the associate had done that, he might have been able to print out the letter from home and hit a Staples or Kinkos to fax it (if he didn't have fax capabilities at home). Or at least notify the partner as to the status. Mind you, I don't see why the associate had to fax the draft letter as opposed to email it to the client - that is a tangential point (but one which ATL might ask Urquhart to clarify....since he must know by now that his unprofessional, implusive behavior is all over the internet and being read by clients and colleagues).

Mr. Urquhart: you are a big boy, in big boy underwear. Please learn a bit of control and most of all, take some time to think about a prickly email like that before you hit "send." I bet the client probably didn't even care so much about getting the draft letter. Otherwise, the client would have called you or emailed you in the evening, asking "Where the heck is my letter?"

All in all, you've made a fool of yourself even if the underlying point is well taken.

Quinn Associate Here. What the hell kind of sensationalist bullshit is this? To everyone picking up on the opening line (referring to the associate as a "kid") as particularly douchey, you are absolutely right. But Mystal is the douchebag here. He added that line to the email. That line was most definitely not in the email I received this morning. I know this is a tabloid and all, and journalistic integrity is maybe a little lax, but *faking* sensationalist lines whole hog? Pathetic.

HEY 48 -

I bet you don't feel that way if you ever get laid off. And, don't fool yourself, many people with strong hours and good work product have gotten laid off or pushed out in this economy.

What kind of moron associate decides he gets to work for a firm like Quinn and that he gets to stop checking emails at 7:30????? That is ridiculous. The douchebag deserves to be publicly shamed. Seriously, I rarely even leave work that early. You're in the big leagues now little boys and girls. Act accordingly.

Okay yes the email was a bit over the top but the partner was right. Get over it or go work for a non-profit kid.

What kind of moron associate decides he gets to work for a firm like Quinn and that he gets to stop checking emails at 7:30????? That is ridiculous. The douchebag deserves to be publicly shamed. Seriously, I rarely even leave work that early. You're in the big leagues now little boys and girls. Act accordingly.

What kind of moron associate decides he gets to work for a firm like Quinn and that he gets to stop checking emails at 7:30????? That is ridiculous. The douchebag deserves to be publicly shamed. Seriously, I rarely even leave work that early. You're in the big leagues now little boys and girls. Act accordingly.

Elie: was the "kid" line in the email or not? If not, you should revise this blog posting. Urquhart is going to self combust.

When I read stories like this it makes me laugh. They're funny. Funny and sad, I guess. These guys are such enormous assholes. How did they ever make it this far? Why don't they just drop off the end of the earth into a giant black hole of despicability? Anyone who is available "24\7" or expects someone else to be is a worthless little worm. Life is squandered on them. Somebody please sterilize these people so that they may be the last of their line.

It's fun and satisfying to publicly humiliate -- and pretty much give a mark of cain to the career at a particular firm of -- a kid who made you grumpy.

Damn the fact that you shoulda made the urgency clear. Damn the fact that you ASSUMED something important was done. Damn the fact that you yourself were careless in making something important happen, if indeed it was improtant. Damn the fact that you choose to do it in a way that makes you look ridiculous, petty, arrogant, like a jackass.

And goddamn the fact that a MAN (not a kid) would have taught the teachabe moment behind the closed door of his office and delivered the message with class.

Some damn all that silliness -- big partner needs to take a dump.

"I think we can all imagine scenarios when this could be a disaster." Actually, I can't think of any. 7:30 is too late for any court filings or closings anyway. This shit only matters in Urquhart's warped universe.

While I think there was a better way to handle this, the central point is absolutely correct. You get paid well, bill your clients a lot, and need to be available at 7:30-11:00 pm. Just reality in this competitive marketplace.

This would never happen at Colt Wallerstein (or whatever)

sent from my iPhone

Wait a minute here! Quinn Emanuel is a real firm? All this time I was thinking it was a made-up name like the Law Offices of Hugh G. Rection.

Dear god! Do clients pay $1k an hour for the services of a partner who can't write for shit? The real crime here is that a such a moron can reach the highest levels of our profession.

eek!

maybe urquhart should have sent his email for review and comment to someone with better writing skills. "it also means after you leave the office as well?" "relatively new associate ... for a relatively new client?" weak.

The first line actually reads like the tag that the tipster added to the email he sent to Mystal, and Mystal just lazily copied and pasted the whole thing.

64 here: Looks like I'm the moron.

Should be:
The real crime here is that such a moron can reach the highest levels of our profession.

HEY 53 -

48 Here. And I call bullshit. I've survived two rounds of layoffs. The most recent round sure had some rock star resumes. Circuit clerkships. Awesome law schools. But, like the douchebag associate here, these layoffees did not know how to actually WORK. They chatted. They pontificated. They talked a big game. Let me put it this way, you aren't layoff material if you're billing 2400 hours.

I am glad partners are calling these people out. Enough is enough. To stop checking your blackberry at 7:30 when you know something is urgent? In this economy? When you work at a firm like this? DOUCHEBAG.

I hope these freaks don't breed.

Comment removed by moderator.

I call bullshit on 52. It was in the original email.

But how many times has an associate tried to reach a partner at 7 pm or later because a major issue has arisen, only to reach voice mail? There are some issues that only partners should address. Example, years ago a partner tasked me with putting together a transaction in which a corporation was going to sell some of its shares to another corporation. Sounds simple, right? Not so much. It was December 24, the corporation that was selling the shares turned out to be an S corporation (the client thought it was an LLC!!!), they wanted to create a second class of shares (not a second series), the purchasing corporation did not exist, and the partner who "tasked" me with this was in the Bahamas and unreachable until December 28. The deal was supposed to close by December 31, and I was not allowed to contact the client to resolve any issues because the partner and client were in another city and I was only the senior associate. Partner finally comes back into contact (after numerous emails from me with questions that he did not receive because out of contact), and basts me because I had not completed the transaction. The transaction ever did happen because of all of the issues I raised, but the main purpose of this post is that partners expect associates to be always available even when they are not, and then deny the associates the tools to complete the jobs when the partners themselves are gone. The whole model of 24/7 is ridiculous unless practiced by every person in a law firm - partners, associates and staff.

Maybe he should have checked his email, but sending out an email like this was a real douchebag move.

Also, who knows how to fax? I'm a 5th year in big law, and have no idea. Scan I can do. Faxing is for AAs.

eek... for realzies.

69 - i appreciate your candor, but you may want to avoid signing your posts with your real name.

that's rich... Elie adding a "[sic]" to point our someone else's typo.

by the way, Elie, you should really address 52. did you add the first line like you added the "[sic]"?

Moments like these make me so happy that I have left BigLaw to open my own small firm, where I don't have to deal with BS like this.

Yes, lawyers are on call 24/7. This is not a good thing, just a sad reality. But even if this poor junior associate should have checked his Blackberry before getting some (likely well deserved) sleep, shaming him/her to the entire firm (after he/she did a "nice" job) is exactly what is wrong with this profession, run by self-important assholes like this partner.

This partner is a fuck wad. If someone not faxing an inconsequential letter until the next morning puts your panties in a twist, you need a laxative.

Mystal the Walrus loves to go whole hog.

77 - You just got hosed didn't you? But you don't understand! The horror. So unjust! Because you are so brilliant that you don't have to check emails after 7:30.

i wish i could get yelled at a bigfirm for this while banking 200k. oh well, so much for my legal education.

The reality is that this is the life of a biglaw associate. We can assail the partner, or warn new attorneys that this is the life that they are walking into. My spouse has banned the BB from our bedroom, because of incidents like this. The biglaw model is work work work, be available 24/7, bill hours, burn out, and leave before partnership consideration. Two nights this week I was taking actual calls from co-counsel after midnight. It's outrageous, but it is the life we lead as biglaw associates. I'm going to try to get out before my soul is devoured.

Well, the partner is a complete ass. Perhaps that is why Cravath got rid of him. Cravath partners expect the same things from associates, but they tend to be elegant. If one is a shithead, he will yell at you to your face, not the firm. Clearly not Cravath material.

On the other hand, he is right. In private practice and in a market like this, you had better be checking that blackberry every hour. As many have pointed out, that is what you get paid for.

Ignoring the typos and grammar in Willy Boy's e-mail (I hope Quinn doesn't think that is an example of quality work), those who have suggested that Wills should have picked up a phone to confirm are exactly right.

The guy is a prick, he happened to be right, but he handled it in a horrible way. It strikes me that he is the one who ought to be looking for another job.

On a side note, something like this demonstrates the usefulness of a site like ATL. A. Willie Ubeeque or whatever his name is has been exposed as an ass throughout the nation and probably India, too.

I'd be pretty embarrassed and would be working on my e-mail of apology right now.

72 - It most definitely was not in the original email, unless he sent it, retracted it, and then sent another version without the line all before I saw it. By the way, the email I received came at 9:21, not at 10:21. I think Elie may have copied a tipster's comment as someone else suggested.

-52

69/82 = frustrated TTT grad who finds validation in the layoffs of ivy league alumns. what a wonderful human being you are, maybe you should go work for quinn emmanuel.

This email must be fake.

1.) If Urquhart sent an email at 7:30 (which I doubt; see 2) to an associate to get something done that evening and the associate didn't send an immediate response "I'm on it" and then the finished product an hour later. Urquhart would have sent a swat team to the office to rescue the kid from maniac that was holding him hostage or too put the poor kid out of any more misery.

2. ) Since when does Urquhart leave the office at 7:30? He's been face down on the business end of a bong at 4:20 sharp for the last 25 years.

87 -

I love it. People who collect paychecks from lawfirms and actually work = TTT. People who get laid off = unfortunate ivy league alumns (sic).

Hope you're enjoying your time in the bread line.

I pity anyone who thinks it's worth selling his/her life for $200K.

whoever leaked this email must have missed the one from john quinn about not forwarding emails, after the eekboy incident

89 - i am at work, otherwise i wouldn't be posting here on a friday evening. but once i'm done, the night and weekend are all mine. jealous?

48/69 -- You are going off on the righteousness of the partner here and scolding the associate. But did you actually read the email? The partner himself stated that faxing the next morning was actually no big deal: "In this case it was no harm no foul." So, to translate, no, it was not urgent. This was not a must-do-now fax. Although the project as a whole was a rush, this comment/review draft was "no harm no foul." Calling out the associate for waiting to the next morning to something that could wait until that morning is a ridiculous thing to do. If the associate does not check his email enough, the partner should simply tell him personally, and not in an email scold, that he should check his email more often.

Urquhart rhymes with....

Do you think that Urquhart checks his emails, while, for instance, having sex, in the shower, hot tub, club locker room, etc.?

I just finished Grisham's The Associate and thought the reference to the FirmPhone were a little exaggerated; Apparently not....

QE=attention whores

84 -

You're a riot! "It's outrageous!" My spouse had to "ban" the BB from our bedroom. All I did was "work work work."

. . . And then I enjoy the benefits of $250,000 salary plus bonus . . . Plus perks . . . Plus free meals when I stay late . . .

Wow. It does sound pretty inhumane. Better call the International Labor Rights Forum. Forced child labor nothing!!! It's Biglaw associates that are in dire need of rescue!

mmm...free meals when i stay late...

Thanks to the commenters and tipsters that pointed out the mistake in the original version of the story. As I explain above, it looks like one of our tipsters added their own commentary to Urquhart's email. The version above has been passed off on by the tipsters who pointed out the initial error.

This was an honest mistake, there was no desire to sensationalize on my part. I apologize for the error, thanks again to the QE people who emailed in,

Elie = guy who checks his email after business hours.

73 - You hit the nail on the head. This happened to me all of the time in private practice - only I had to deal with a partner that left as early as 2:30 pm and then didn't answer emails.

93 - Assume much? Just because the world didn't fall apart in retrospect doesn't mean that the project wasn't a "rush" and the "pressure" ceased to exist when the associate left work at 7:30 and unilaterally decided that he was done for the day. The partner is exactly right: "In this case it was no harm no foul, but I think we can all imagine scenarios when this could be a disaster."

Praise publicly. Criticize privately.

This would never happen at HK Miami.

92 - WOW! Good point! 7:12. That is pretty amazing. 69/82 is clearly a TTT.

Who the heck sends faxes anymore? The only reason to ever send a fax is if you need a signature. Even then, it's easier to scan and email then it is to fax.

Most people don't have faxes at their homes. Heck, most people I know don't even have land lines. It's very difficult to send a fax if you get the order to do so at 7:30. (Kinkos closes at 9 where I live). It's trivially easy to send an email or scan and send as PDF, even at 1 in the morning.

"LESSON NUMBER ONE: You should check your emails early and often. "

Bill - what's lesson NUMBER TWO?

Anyhow, you're a smart guy and should know the basics about sending email. Here's a basic tutorial from Ehow, titled, "How to Use Email Correctly" with six key do's and don't:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5299084_use-email-correctly.html

Of the six, you violated five. Particularly the last directive which is why: (1) you are now here, reading comments on ATL; and (2) the referenced client (the one you right about trying to impress) is definitely going to hear about your email.

Tonight is going to be a long night for you. I assume you will be checking email very regularly tonight.

This guy lost all credibility when the second word of his email (subject) was "YOU" instead of "YOUR." I wouldn't read anything after that.

All BigLaw firms are bad, but Quinn is particularly rancid. NEVER work there.

Whoever wrote this e-mail is at fault. He "assumed" it was done? Assumed? A good lawyer shouldn't have "assumed". Why didn't he ask for a confirmation especially when the other side doesn't respond? Maybe he didn't want to continue to use the BB at home?
That said, every associate can tell you that when a partner sends you an e-mail at 7:30 you are expected to read it the same evening. It is 7:30pm not 2:30am. Most of us are in the office at that time.

What a total fail. BIGLAW has turned into a Lord of the Flies regime with idiots out idioting each other.

That message was so full of errors and so full of shit I'd be hesitant to send it to my dog.

Word to the young lawyers, take what you can from BIGLAW, if you're lucky you'll get some training. If there's one thing positive about this shit economy, it is that institutional clients that partners have taken for granted for years have either disappeared or have cut off the money train. If you haven't figured out this is one big scam yet, keep looking.

I'm a lowly solo, but I'm pulling in mid $200's representing mom and pop's the big guys wouldn't touch in a million years, and these clients apologize (not that they need to) if they call me after 5:00. It isn't always easy. My blackberry is always on because I work for me, there are some weeks I make $500, but then on the other hand there are other weeks I make $20,000. It is a lot better life than working for a bunch of assclowns, that likely couldn't draft a contract to save their mistress.

109 -

Thanks for making it all so clear: "Word to the young lawyers, take what you can from BIGLAW." And this is why the moron stopped checking at 7:30. And this is why the partner sent this email.

What a jerk.

Hey, Urquhart -

LESSON NUMBER TWO: Do not be a douche and send out broadcast emails to the entire firm when one of your associates screws up. While you may feel the urge to do so, you will come across as unprofessional and completely lacking in judgment.

It's not an unreasonable expectation, but it is a stupid one. Most biglaw partners have atrocious and inefficient work habits. Email is better off batch processed.

When a client emails me, I email back, "Let me think about this." I then get back to them at a reasonable time. No one gets instant service--half the time they just need to vent, and they're happy as long as they're acknowledged. The point of a lawyer is to be calm and deliberate and not to panic all the time.

If everything is always an emergency, nothing is.

Also: no one in the freaking world is able to multitask, just task switch. Stop kidding yourselves that working long hours means you're getting things done.

Handled privately? Is this Kindergarten? Well done, Mr. Lawyer.

Elie, I apologize for calling you a douchebag. Thanks for fixing and admitting the mistake. -52

Written by a guy who pussied out of running with the bulls b/c he couldn't have his sissy starting point:

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/law-firms/496538-1.html

Elie

You are in a lot of debt for a reason. Your school likes to dick around with money. Perhaps they could use their money on education, but why? They use your money for that. And then to dick around. Enjoy your poverty, knowing that you acquired it to be schooled by these dicks.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZnoUgi6NwXQ

The article says he wimped out after "planning the trip for a decade"? It takes you 10 years to book a flight from Madrid or Barcelona to the airport in Pamplona?

LESSON NUMBER ONE: You should run from bulls and Bills early and often.

Likelihood that the client was waiting by the fax machine at 7:30 p.m. or later to review a non-urgent letter? None.

Practicing law is the worst profession every conceived short of undertaking, trash collecting and professional underarm sniffer. Case in point, this jackass memo by some jackass lawyer. It'd be one thing if lawyers were making $ million deals, saving lives, changing the world, improving humanity. But they're not. They're a parasitic nuisance.

Lolz, Urquhart fucked up.

He fucked up by assuming that somebody else was going to send the letter, and never confirming they did.

He fucked up by assuming that everybody else needs to participate in his exalted level of toolishness, even when they draw a fraction of his pay and are completely fungible.

And then he fucked it all further up by circulating an e-mail so poorly-written that it suggests tapeworms have been gnawing his brains away.

Good tabloid material here.

Why have people confused e-mails with phone calls? If something absolutely needs to be done, you call the person, tell them to do it, and wait to hear their confirmation that it will be/is done. You send an e-mail, when you don't care when it will be read- blackberry or no blackberry. An e-mail doesn't give you the feedback of speaking to the other person that a phone call does. Stupid ass hole fucking partners.

This partner should have his inbox spammed with emails with the subject "Asshole" . . . laid off QE associates, I'm looking at you

The man is an asshole and a douche. I hope that his partners take this into account during their next compensation cycle.

To prove to him the importance of checking a b'berry often, I suggest the ATL Challenge of the Week: all loyal readers (especially you QE haters) should subscribe this paragon or partnership values to every listerve, spam provider, travel site, internet shopping site, drug purveyor, and other service that you can think of. Flood this email account. Maybe he will learn his lesson after getting 500 ED emails a day - no, sorry, he's dick so that doesn't count.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/10/now_beer_pong_will_give_you_sw.html?f=most-commented-intel-7d5

Beer pong gives you swine flu.

-110

When you stop licking Urquhart's cock can you make a halfway smart argument? Do you think that he was checking his blackberry at night back in the day at Cravath? No, because the technology didn't exist, junior Cravath attorneys were little more than secretaries making copies and clients weren't dumb enough to pay $500/hour for a lackey to draft a fax letter.

In case you're too fucking stupid to notice the current economy, the golden years of billing meaningless tasks to clients with unlimited wallets are over, in my opinion that is a good thing. Maybe we can go back to being lawyers again.

And to be quasi-political, I can't wait for the baby boomers to just fucking die. They have fucked this country to the point I'm not sure we can return.

-109, a real lawyer...not a cocksucker.

If I was a law firm managing partner, I would commission a computer program that would randomly misspell one word of an email that was sent over a listserv. It would be a different word in each mailbox delivered to. Then when the giant douchebag sent the email out, and I saw it online, I could find the misspelled word, see what mailbox recieved that misspelling, and fire the bastard snitch.

ASSOCIATES FAIL

PARTNERS CRY

QUIN REMAINS?

The scary part is that Urquhart was once a young kid learning the ropes himself. I'm sure he worked his ass off to do his best work and impress those around. I'm sure he also had social skills and was well-liked by those around. Look at what success has turned him into. Urguhart - what an absolute joke you are. Get over yourself.

Sincerely,

25 year old

* QUINN

Why is this asshole? He didn't name the associate. Thanks to office gossip, the same number of people would know the person's name if he had kept it private. I mean, what the associate did was pretty moronic.

Here's the irony: Thanks to this post, I bet everyone is dying to know who this associate is. (I know I am.) Works in LA . . . Relatively new . . . Hmmm . . .

Hey, Associate! Thanks to your tipster friends, soon everyone will know what a dope you are! Isn't life grand???

129 here...I don't know why I left out the word "him" TWICE...(should read "around him.") It's been a long week.

127, firing the "snitch" would just make the partner look like the biggest crybaby bitch ever, inciting much more public mockery of his failings and the firm's psychotic defects.

Come to think of it, maybe your plan is meritorious after all.

"If I was a law firm managing partner, I would commission a computer program that would randomly misspell one word of an email that was sent over a listserv. It would be a different word in each mailbox delivered to. Then when the giant douchebag sent the email out, and I saw it online, I could find the misspelled word, see what mailbox recieved that misspelling, and fire the bastard snitch."

And if you didn't realize that your labor was smart, you'd be too stupid to realize that they could simply use spellcheck, or misspell other words, or do anything else other than cutting and pasting. Is everyone in this profession a dunce?

No stipend for you at Quinn: Annual base compensation for entry level associates in 2009 stands at $160,000 plus a $10,000 interest free loan and year-end bonus.

http://www.quinnemanuel.com/work-at-quinn/the-package.aspx

Cheap bastards.

I agree with 49. The associate saw the email, decided it was non-urgent, and decided to send the fax in the morning. The partner then ascertained that it hadn't been sent lickety-split, asked the associate about it, and the first thing to pop into the associate's head was "I didn't get the email until today!"

This is all just about a procrastinating associate--not the unwillingness of 25-year-olds to check email.

"If I was a law firm managing partner, I would commission a computer program that would randomly misspell one word of an email that was sent over a listserv. It would be a different word in each mailbox delivered to. Then when the giant douchebag sent the email out, and I saw it online, I could find the misspelled word, see what mailbox recieved that misspelling, and fire the bastard snitch."

Only two professions attract the kinds of small-minded vindictive paranoids that think like this: lawyers and prison security guards. You'll get yours one day, Big Boss, I'm sure of it. I can eat 50 eggs.

Who the hell sends faxes? That's so early 90s. Puh-leaze.

Fortune 500 in-house IP lawyer here. Guess that's one more firm we won't be hiring for litigation! I certainly don't want to pay this idiot for work product like that, nor do I want to subsidize such abusive work attitudes.

Publicly bashing an associate for not sending a non-critical document overnight after business hours and waiting until morning? This is the kind of obnoxious shit that makes associates pad rampantly because they feel aggrieved and entitled. No thanks QE, you can pitch that culture elsewhere.

I think the "service" industry point that keeps getting cited proves too much. Every job on earth besides sustenance farming is a "service" in some sense. A professor must "serve" the students and the school administration, a cowboy must "serve" the owner of the cattle, a lettuce picker must "serve" the farmer, a scientist must "serve" her sources of funding. In all of these cases, the person being served will make demands, some reasonable, some unreasonable.

Automatically classifying any client demand as reasonable because the law is a "service" industry is just one huge line of bullshit. I can't fucking wait until I don't work at Quinn anymore.

jbq gets all liquored up and send out emails at 3 in the morning all the time. it is no big deal.

quinn stud

Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the guy's page?-double Fordham, woohoo, no verdicts above $100M+, and most of the other stuff is fluff.

Email was wrong but "kid" was wrong too. Get with the program or move on.

This decade continues to depress me beyond belief. During the golden age of biglaw, the glorious 1980s, we young associates did not have to worry about checking a screen (mobile or stationary) every two minutes. As a budding litigator, I did have to work late (past 7:00pm) on occasion. Sometimes just sitting around waiting for paper to be delivered; other times dictating complex briefs into my dictaphone.

But for the love of god, once I was home with my trophy wife, I was free to do as I wish. Indeed, I enjoyed some nice evenings watching laserdic's on my state-of-the-art home theatre.

I feel for you cats, I really do.

Quinn's not a bad place to work--at least by BigLaw standards. Asshole moves by partners are definitely NOT the norm. I've never worked with Bill, so I can't comment on him. Maybe he was just having a bad day. I've never had any partner treat me with anything but total respect and dignity.

Unclear whether Urquhart's email to the associate was (1) marked urgent, (2) requested immediate faxing, (3) had delivery confirmation checked, (4) actually got through to the associate's blackberry without experiencing a delay or technical problem.

Also unclear is whether the associate was still in the office (or at home with no fax machine), crashed at 7 p.m. after working 48 hours straight on a rush project, etc.

Also unclear why a name partner in a firm like this would not have a failsafe (telephone contact with the associate, instructions to an after hours assistant or another lawyer, etc.) to ensure such a momentous task would be completed when the request was after typical business hours.

Apparently, the partner has two broken arms and can't operate a fax machine himself.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the entire situation was completely, utterly made up. That this "kid" was just a figment of this name partner's imagination and the e-mail was a passive aggressive exercise in getting associates to work even harder on stupid made up deadlines.

142 -- I don't want to belittle this lawyer's accomplishments, but the following supposed accolade did make me laugh:

"Obtained settlements of several shareholder derivative actions at no cost to company or directors."

So, in other words, you settled a few derivative cases within policy limits? WOW -- take that David Boies.

Quinn remains remains

Plus it is full of fucking weirdos

The Gallion & Spielvogel website is back:

http://www.internalinvestigationlaw.com/Bio/EdwardGallion.asp

Yes, check your e-mail before you leave because if a partner thinks of something late at night he won't bother doing it himself.

The E-Mail itself is chicken-----, and is wholly inappropriate.

But, it's a service business. There are tons of great lawyers out there. What separates the successful ones from the has-beens is service. That's two things: (1) being responsive to clients' irrational demands (and the firm's partners are clients of the associate); and (2) making the client feel that you care and it's important.

Now, that said, what the hell is he doing with a fax? Is his client that technically deficient, or just stuck in a third-world location with phones but no decent internet. As for those of you who can't operate a fax - ask for lessons - Rule 1 really needs to be "Don't ask anyone else to do something you don't know how to do yourself."

153, that I agree with. I'm always amused by senior associates who don't know how to use the copy machine.

The partner who wrote this e-mail single handily destroyed more value to the firm's reputation than his associate could have made in a lifetime. To use the founding partners name in an e-mail like this is just unbelievable. If I were John Quinn I would fire this partner on the spot.

Hey QE, suck my cock, boy.

We are not a service industry. We are a profession. Service industries involve little training, and focus on people skills. We are in a profession that has significant barriers to entry, and mostly spend our time in offices.

We are even less of a service industry than doctors are, and they don't put up with this bullshit. (They are insurance companies' bitches, but that's another story.)

Guys at my high school used to not check their blackberries all the time. It was no big deal.

whatever. big law associates get paid well but not well enough to endure that level of bullshit (especially with the salary freezes and salary cuts).

Retired partner here: You guys really are full of shit. If you want to make big money, you better believe that the firm owns your ass on a 24/7 basis. You can lose a multimillion dollar reprsentation from a mistake like this. Yes, the partner should have followed up, because every partner knows that far too many young associates are lazy ass pansies, who don't understand that a simple mistake can cost the firm millions of dollars. On the other hand, a partner should be able to rely on associates to do their jobs in a timely fashion. We live in a 24/7 world. If you want to play with the big boys, then you best learn to be somthing other than a lazy ass baby. Get real folks. You're not being paid $150K to put the firm second. If you don't like it, then go get a job somewhere else.

160, I'm here because I'm stuck in the office on a deal.. But why is a "retired partner" spending his Friday evening reading ATL? God, I wish you were real instead of a flame.

Everyone's a loser at Quinn Emanuel.

First - the associate was wrong - we're not saving the fucking manatees here guys. You want to take 12 hours off from checking your blackberry - go teach third grade at a public school.

But - the associate's error was one of inexperience - easily correctable if the mentorship that had served as the backbone of our profession for generations hadn't been obliterated by the unmitigated greed and selfishness of douchebags like Urquhart - one of a horde of self-entitled baby boomers who took advantage of the professionalism of their mentors and now give absolutely nothing back to the next generation.

Here's the thing Billy - the next generation isn't as soft as you'd like to imagine. And you can't just send out a blast email and make us nervous.

We can deal with the all-nighters, and the complex legal analyses, and the demands of client service. We don't want money, and we don't want prestige. What we do want is for you to sit there in your faggoty old leather arm chair and with your Fordham mouth extend us some fucking courtesy. You gotta treat us nicely.

Treat us with the same level of respect you received from the professionals you learned under (and could never hope to be). See how far we will go for you. We'll even spell-check our missives before they go firm-wide.

No? You'd rather whine and gossip like the manager of a Denny's? Then revel in your new-found notoriety - biggest douche in BigLaw!

"The partner who wrote this e-mail single handily destroyed more value to the firm's reputation than his associate could have made in a lifetime."

Ummm, no, the idiot tipster(s) who sent an internal email to ATL are responsible for any damage to the firm's reputation. It's called proximate cause, go look it up.

worth repeating: "the associate's error was one of inexperience - easily correctable if the mentorship that had served as the backbone of our profession for generations hadn't been obliterated by the unmitigated greed and selfishness of douchebags like Urquhart - one of a horde of self-entitled baby boomers who took advantage of the professionalism of their mentors and now give absolutely nothing back to the next generation."

161, you keep thinking that, while I enjoy my Friday night. Going to bed early after about 4 hours at a local bar with neighbors. When you're my age, going to bed early is one of the pleasures of life. As for why I read this thing, it's because many of my former partners told me I wouldn't believe the shit being printed here, so I check it out once every 3 or 4 weeks. I guess I just got lucky this time. By the way, it's good to see that you aren't complaining about doing your job. Yes, it sucks to have to work late, particularly on a Friday night, but it sure seems like you're doing it, just as you know you should. Check with me in about 35/40 more years and let me know how you feel about associates then.

"Check with me in about 35/40 more years and let me know how you feel about associates then."

161, if you are a retired partner, you're already an old fart. In 35/40 years, you'll be six feet under or eating from a straw-and won't know a lawyer from a parking meter.

The partner, Mr. U, was scared. He's got berated by a more senior person. Hence, he publicly passed the blame on to the "kid." It shows that either Mr. U is about to be canned, or QE is fighting very hard to get new clients.

Actually, this is one of the better Mystal's posts.

Classy.

So it didn't matter, and he says it didn't matter, but he still feels the need to put a new associate on blast to the entire firm?

What an asshole.

165, you sound like a real treat. Life well spent, sir.

Retired partner here: You guys are missing the point. I don't give a crap about the e-mail. I never would have openly chastised the kid for messing up, but I sure would have made my displeasure known to him. The fact is that practicing law at a high level is a 24/7 job, period. If you can't accept that, then do something else. As for 35 to 40 years from now, I'll be dead. I know that, but you'll likely be around, and I would love to see what you would have to say about this exact same situation. Of course, I won't get that chance, but life's been good to me, so I'll go when my time comes, just like everyone else will.

Successful "retired partner" troll is successful.

This is the life my fanatical litigation legions have chosen. Eventually I will have chips embedded in their skulls so sleep will no longer be a barrier to litigation triumph. Until that day, check your damn blackberries every minute.

Those of you who comment negatively are weak, transactional pseudo lawyers -- little more than sales clerks. Your words mean nothing.

If my kitchen is too hot, you may leave. But I WILL REMAIN!

The email was inappropriate (even the non-wikipedia version that elie finally settled upon) but there are a ton of junior associates out there who have absolutely no concept of the requirements of the job. The partner should have done what was done to me when I was a junior associate....partner calls me into his office first thing in the morning then yells at me for about 10 minutes straight and chucks a stapler at me in the course of the bitchslapping. Ah, the good old days.

Sending a firm-wide email eliminates the "stick the knife in him and watch the life drain out of his eyes" personal aspect that a good lesson entails. And you may as well just name the associate, since everyone will be able to figure it out anyway.

Retired partner -- approximately 1% of the posters on the board will be in biglaw in 35-40 years. Why? First, the practice of law is such a miserable soul-crushing endeavor that only the most obsessive self-loathing automatons will stay in the profession. Second, the law firm business model is obsolescent. Firms will never be the same. The cache of making partner is neither attractive nor particularly lucrative anymore.

#48 - classic archetype of the "macho d-bag" BigLaw associate type. Instead of regretting the necessity, he/she brags about (1) taking no vacation, (2) not seeing the significant other/spouse/children (oh yes, he/she has them, but only because its a societal "achievement" and it was more acquisition than love story), (3) working into the wee hours for no good reason. Also, thinks 3,000 billable hours is a badge of honor instead of an really tough year. Has looked at every firm issue from the partners' point of view only since he joined, even when that point of view was totally at odds with his/her well-being, making him/her both a beloved pet and a mouthpiece for management.

But its all quantity over quality, and he/she will ultimately be heartbroken (or heartlike-organ broken) when the partnership thanks him/her for his/her 8-12 years of hard work, but tells him/her that he's/she's just not partnership material at the end of the day.

The day he/she leaves, weeping at the perceived betrayal, a 25-year-old just like him/her walks in the door spouting off about how everything at the firm should be geared towards maximizing profits per partner because this is a business!

And the partners chuckle.

Hey 163 - the damage is done. Don't you know that anything you put in an e-mail could wind up on the front page of the New York Times. Oh I forgot that's not in your 1st year Torts case book you moron.

Thank God I am not at this disgusting law firm, which advertises in airports.

This firm is a complete mess.

What is really sad is that the partner couldn't even write a clear and typo-free firm-wide email. What does that say about the current crop of partners at the "top" of the profession? It truly is quantity over quality. If only clients knew exactly what they were paying for.

"fax a draft letter for review and comment."

How much did QE intend to charge for this? And some people wonder why the industry is falling apart?

The whole premise of this situation is totally idiotic. Doesn't a firm with 400 attorneys have a second-shift receptionist or secretararial staff? Why would a partner ask an associate to fax a document instead of a secretary? Is QE billing their clients at associate rates to send a friggen fax?

I find the attitude of many here both surprising and appalling. The only reason being an attorney is a 24/7 job 365 days a week is because partners are generally horrific managers. Of course there are times when you are "on call." But many firedrills are caused not by court deadlines or clients, but by the partners themselves.

Big time partners are being paid enormous amounts of money - so for them, maybe 24/7 is reasonable. Ya aint payin me enough as an associate to completely throw my life away.

71,

True story? Please confirm.

I never realized until just now how many commenters here do not work in BigLaw.

78 wrote, and I quote:

"that's rich... Elie adding a "[sic]" to point our [sic] someone else's typo."

Awesome.

The more I read about this firm, the more I hate it. I hope this Urquhart guy slips on a banana peel.

The more I read about this firm, the more I hate it. I hope this Urquhart guy slips on a banana peel.

The more I read about this firm, the more I hate it. I hope this Urquhart guy slips on a banana peel.

The more I read about this firm, the more I hate it. I hope this Urquhart guy slips on a banana peel.

what a fucking jerk, this partner. I mean seriously . these guys really need get laid. no foul, no harm and you sit around to write a firm-wide memo. someone needs to take a bat to this guys knees.

The more I read about this firm, the more I hate it. I hope this Urquhart guy slips on a banana peel.

The a-hole who wrote the email is a complete twat. Get a night secretary to fax it, you facking idiot.

"I never realized until just now how many commenters here do not work in BigLaw."

If BigLaw work means sending faxes, I can think of millions of unemployed workers that would happily do the job for a fraction of the salary.

Two points:

(1) Why was the partner asking the associate to send a fax? Isn't that what secretaries/doc services staff are there for?

(2) I wonder if the partner knew that with a single email he would materially damage his firm's recruiting for at least the next 2-3 years, and his firm's reputation among peers for probably the same amount of time.

162 = the best schtick I've seen here in a while

Just horrible.

162-Well done, SIR!

180 asked "Is QE billing their clients at associate rates to send a friggen fax?"

yes, absolutely. all. the. time. after working there, i would never send my business there.

162 makes a good point - with some exceptions, the baby-boom generation sucks. They are a bunch of soulless conformists who will do anything for a dollar.

What the frak is 24\7? Is this guy dyslexic? It isn't as if the "\" key is more used than the "/" key. The latter shares with the question mark.

Seriously, Fordham undergrad/law, Cravath guy for 3 years (not that impressive), how is he a name partner anywhere?

Haven't read through all the comments, so maybe someone pointed this out, assuming this is not some made-up, apocryphal anecdote, but who's to blame here: (1) the wet-behind-the-ears "relatively new" associate, or (2) the gray-hair partner supervising him, who should have known something was up when he didn't get a confirmation email from the associate that the fax was being handled.

That, more than anything, speaks volumes about Quinn. What kind of firm dumps important projects on junior associates, and then leaves them unsupervised to complete the task?

He didn't publicly identify the associate you idiots.

By sending the email for "teaching" purposes, he actually implies that the associate is less blameworthy (e.g., anyone could have made this mistake).

"If everything is always an emergency, nothing is."

That pretty much sums up Biglaw for me.

Dear ATL readers,

You can rest assured that Mr. Urquhart can look forward to an eternity of being sodomized by demons in Hell. I haven't overlooked Mr. Raskopf either.

Go 'Skins!

--Beelzebub

I'm with Col. Jessep. I don't know if it was the environment of the 60's and the accompanying lack of respect for authority, or maybe they are following an example set by the "Greatest Generation" that we are unaware of, or if this is just a classic generation gap issue, but baby boomers in law firms are almost universally disgustingly bad at managing people junior to them. It's actually kind of amazing. As a person who formerly held a position of authority in the military myself, I am going to take two minutes and give a couple guidelines here, in the hopes that some of these d-bags are reading this -

1: Lead by example - First and foremost, you yourself should be hard working and competent. Unfortunately, too many of you fail right here. Get yourself right if you hope to be a good leader.

2: Instruct before expecting - Never assume a subordinate knows how to do something difficult or complicated. Give them opportunities to seek guidance, and before finalizing the assignment and deadline you should receive assurances that they know what they are doing, and then be available for consultation. Instruction can be delegated to a senior associate, but you should check with the senior to ensure it is being delivered.

3: Always appear calm, cool and collected - Nothing disturbs a subordinate's opinion of a leader more than witnessing the leader panic or lose their cool, and nothing inspires more confidence than seeing them maintain their cool in situations where the subordinate would panic.

3: Praise and criticize in proper proportion - Do not overpraise, that makes it meaningless, but when an associate goes above and beyond, it should be acknowledged. When they make a mistake that involves no dishonesty or lack of effort (and isn't egregiously stupid) they should be corrected, not criticized. When they do exhibit laziness or dishonesty, they should be summoned to your office and privately dressed down in measured tones. Don't pull your punches, but yelling is far less effective than speaking to someone and letting them know in no uncertain terms that they have screwed up, you are extremely disappointed, and that it cannot happen again.

None of this is rocket science, but since so many of you have no idea what you're doing, I thought I'd throw it out there. Maybe it helped a little, and at least it lent me vent.

202, if Satan were a 'Skins fans, don't you think they'd be having a better season? I'm calling your bullsh*t. You're not Satan at all.

Woops, I meant step 4. I get to preachin' and lose all track of how long I've been going.

If I were a Quinn associate, I'd move to "tunnel." Then you could "retire" for the night without worrying about getting e-mails from lazy traffic cop partners that charge $700/hour. FYI - I hear the Lincoln and Midtown tunnels in NYC have cheap rental rates.

The difference between QE, and my firm, is we don't do this in the midst of this economy when "now more than ever there are many talented lawyers and law firms competing for our business" or just for "relatively new clients we [are] trying to impress".

We've had this policy since times were good, and we implement it with our established institutional clients as much, if not more, than new ones.

This partner is a douche -- a) because he emailed the whole firm about a mistake a brand new associate made ONCE, and b) because he acts like it's somehow more important to be responsive now than it used to be. The first reason being the far more egregious.

The more I think about it, the more I think, "What a fucking asshole!?!". I was about to apply to QE when the economy got better too. If they keep partners like this, then forget it..

LOL at the Quinn clients paying $300 an hour for associates to fax pieces of paper.

71:
I hope that story is true.

CHECK YOU EMAILS

Well done, 203.
This baby boomer d-bag at QE will never heed your advice though.

lol @ the bad publicity for QE. What a piece of shit place and an asshole partner.

203, what's the most important troop leading step?

I live north of the Merritt, good luck getting a fucking signal for a BB up here.

I'm late to the party, but 35 FTW.

213 - Supervision would have indeed taken care of this particular problem, but since I generally hate seeing or hearing from partners, I made a conscious decision to de-emphasize it. Once they learn to be tolerable they can supervise me, until then leave me alone - 203

"Because I make ungodly amounts of money, busting my ass means checking messages before I go to bed and immediately when I wake up."

So if you are on call/on the clock pretty much 24/7/365, what does that "ungodly amount of money" boil down to per hour? Ten bucks?

200 for the loss, if it was meant to be a "teaching" moment, the last paragraph was unnecessary, the point was already made.

This might be worse than the Latham reputation drop, at least Lathan only screwed their employees...yeah it was a screwjob but a lot of firms have done that. How can any client read this and think they are getting halfway competent advice if the lack of judgment shown in this e-mail is indicative of the QE partnership? This guy is an imbecile.

" I assumed the task was done..... I assumed the task had been completed"

Why the hell does this guy repeat the same point twice?

People employ him? For legal work?

has there been ANY positive news out of QE other than their 100% offer rate in NYC (at the expense of other offices)? the redskins emails, deferring incoming associates the week before the bar without stipends, and now this?

MysTTTal, can I titty fuck your moobs!?

-David Lat

It's 10:00 p.m. Do you know where you blackberry is?

omg - 39, me too. soul mate.

Does anyone else find it disturbing that a typical senior biglaw partner makes about 8-10 times what a first or second year makes - and the first/second year is expected to be as dedicated to the firm and as the biglaw partner, and be on call 24/7

But

A first/second year makes ~ 3 times what a secretary makes and the secretary works 37 hours a week?

@ 219:

Jimmy Two Times.

The associate was supposed to fax the paper, fax the paper.

225, does QE bill double for that?

162, is it bad that I said to myself "so fucking true" before I even looked at your name, when I read:

"But - the associate's error was one of inexperience - easily correctable if the mentorship that had served as the backbone of our profession for generations hadn't been obliterated by the unmitigated greed and selfishness of douchebags like Urquhart - one of a horde of self-entitled baby boomers who took advantage of the professionalism of their mentors and now give absolutely nothing back to the next generation."

?

Quinn probably isn't that bright either. I've seen some of his emails sent to potential/prospective clients over the years.

All lowercase, coupled with piss poor understanding of appellate procedure and appellate jurisdiction. "Litigation genius" my fucking ass.

And the David Hume quote makes me want vomit.

Jesus Christ.

btw. bill "stoner" urquhart makes btw 6-8mil these days. he can afford to use 1st years as "human roach clips" and bill it to the client.

jbq (of course, double bill's pay are you're in my 'hood.)

(250 000 / 365) / 24 = $28.54/hr

What's with all the comments about Billy boy and his bong?

Really 198? Really?

If your vision of the world is this limited you'll never be partner anywhere.

billurquhart@quinnemanuel.com

someone should email this guy to make sure he's checking his mails

How did this email make it on to ATL but the one from John Quinn (excuse me, "john quinn") that contained a multi-paragraph rant about how you should never reply to an email with "thanks" not?

That one was way more fucked, because it went to all employees, not just all lawyers.

God damn the people that run this fucking firm are all a bunch of psycho assholes. Is it really better at other places?

The real irony of this is that QE's email server is down all day on Saturday for repairs or something.

Yeah 232, really. I'm not a fucking retard. When I write memos to clients or to people in general, I don't make mistakes. It isn't that difficult.

I don't want to be a partner at a shithole like QE, that isn't why I went to law school. How many fucktarded partners are there at BIGLAW, if this dumbfuck is typical, it is populated by them.

What value added is there with BIGLAW these days? Most of client demands are nothing more than commodity work. Even Wachtell might be in trouble with their representation in the Merrill/BOA deal. The partners you worship aren't any smarter than a senior associate at MIDLAW.

BIGLAW is a scam. I'm sorry if a bunch of dumbasses took out loans to the tune of $150,000 to buy into this scam, but it is still a scam nonetheless. How many "smart" lawyers did Marc Dreier fool?

So glad I passed on their job offer. This Urquhart guy sounds like a total ass wipe. The fact that a named partner is sending an email like this says a lot about their internal culture. I will laugh at the next Quinn associate I meet.

While it isn't accurate to say I'm "glad" I was laid off, threads like this one do keep me from feeling too bad about it ....... :-)

Someone needs to post the email that 234 mentions.

You're absolutely right 236. Biglaw is a complete scam, and almost fraudulent. I think clients are finally been pushing back on the ridiculous billing rates.

"How did this email make it on to ATL but the one from John Quinn (excuse me, "john quinn") that contained a multi-paragraph rant about how you should never reply to an email with "thanks" not?"

Somebody definitely needs to post that.

This little episode doesn't surprise me. Calling out a junior associate in typo filled firm-wide memo -- what kind of idiot thinks that is a good idea? Yet, it is not surprising if you know Bill. It's possible that I have never met a lawyer with as unjustifiably high an opinion of himself as old Bill Urquhart. Keep bragging about settling within policy limits, Bill. Oh, and about that claim that your lawyers win ~90% of their cases ... ha ha ha. Better go hire some more AUSA's ....

Look, if you sign up for the big salary you have to do the time. Otherwise, get your firm to hire more associates by reducing your pay, and then you can have a life. You can't have it both ways. Big pay (ie: $160,000 plus per year) means you have to work harder than someone else going to a nonprofit and getting a third of that.

Things like this should serve as a sobering reminder to young lawyers that we can do it better than the old-timers. Are they intimidating right now? Sure. But they are not as smart as they hold themselves out to be...

This Urquhart guy is a named partner at one of the most successful firms in the country ... and yet he sends this dumbass email firm wide and embarrasses himself and everyone around him?

These old-timers are out of touch and not nearly as connected to world as we are (or will be) when we starting running things.

If anyone, I mean ANYONE, would hire me right now, I would be out of Biglaw. I can't believe I've wasted my life like this since 2004. I loved law school. I loved the intellectual rigor. But now, I'm judged by my willingness to do the most boring sh*t ever conceived for hours on end, then ask for more. I work for a bunch of relatively smart, not very intellectual people, who are obsessed with things like paragraph spacing. Law students, do yourself a favor. Go work for public interest or the public defender's office. Help people. Or, take Scalia's advice and find another way to contribute to society altogether.

I wonder -- does making 6-8 mill take some of the sting off being an unmitigated retard?

243, no one would argue with that. But if you took a poll of associates and offered them, say, $135K to bill 1750 hours a year and have a life, I guarantee a very large percentage would take it. You act as if biglaw has always been a total grind. It hasn't. It turned into this when partners started to realize that they could make millions off of riding associates into the ground.

243 -- I manage bunch of people now and I would probably be pretty annoyed if someone didn't check their bberry for 10 hrs. But, if this happened to me, I'd go to the associate's office, close the door, and explain calmly how they can improve. The problem here is Urquhart's ham-fisted way of dealing with a routine, minor problem. It shows the guy has bad judgment and poor managerial skills. Lawyers are often bad managers, but this is really beyond the pale.

247, I'd jump on that so fast management's head would spin. So would every other associate I know. That's why they'd never offer it.

Pearls of wisdom from 245.

234 and 239: this is the email in question.

From: john quinn
To: All Personnel
Date: 9/25/09 12:55 PM
Subject: Permission to be discourteous (part of a continuing series), vol. 1, no. 1.

We have all been raised to be courteous in our dealings with our fellow man, and woman. I submit, however, that in the context of email, we should all be relieved of the obligation to send the routine "thanks" email to acknowledge a response to a routine request. I won't do the arithmetic here, but I think any of u can calculate the time cost of opening an email, reading it and deleting it. Its not worth it.

Henceforth all responses to emails shall be deemed to be properly acknowledged and appreciated. "Thanks" beyond that is unnecessary (and not appreciated).

John B. Quinn
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, LLP
865 South Figueroa Street, 10th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90017
Telephone: 213-443-3000
Facsimile: 213-443-3100
E-mail: johnquinn@quinnemanuel.com
Web: www.quinnemanuel.com

"There is nothing which is not the subject of debate. Amidst all this bustle tis not reason which carries the prize but eloquence, and no man needs ever despair of gaining prosyletites to the most extravagant hypothesis who has art enough to represent it in any favorable colors. The victory is not gained by the men at arms who manage the pike and sword, but by the trumpeters, drummers and musicians of the army."

--David Hume

234 and 239: this is the email in question.

From: john quinn
To: All Personnel
Date: 9/25/09 12:55 PM
Subject: Permission to be discourteous (part of a continuing series), vol. 1, no. 1.

We have all been raised to be courteous in our dealings with our fellow man, and woman. I submit, however, that in the context of email, we should all be relieved of the obligation to send the routine "thanks" email to acknowledge a response to a routine request. I won't do the arithmetic here, but I think any of u can calculate the time cost of opening an email, reading it and deleting it. Its not worth it.

Henceforth all responses to emails shall be deemed to be properly acknowledged and appreciated. "Thanks" beyond that is unnecessary (and not appreciated).

John B. Quinn
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, LLP
865 South Figueroa Street, 10th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90017
Telephone: 213-443-3000
Facsimile: 213-443-3100
E-mail: johnquinn@quinnemanuel.com
Web: www.quinnemanuel.com

"There is nothing which is not the subject of debate. Amidst all this bustle tis not reason which carries the prize but eloquence, and no man needs ever despair of gaining prosyletites to the most extravagant hypothesis who has art enough to represent it in any favorable colors. The victory is not gained by the men at arms who manage the pike and sword, but by the trumpeters, drummers and musicians of the army."

--David Hume

234 and 239: this is the email in question.

From: john quinn
To: All Personnel
Date: 9/25/09 12:55 PM
Subject: Permission to be discourteous (part of a continuing series), vol. 1, no. 1.

We have all been raised to be courteous in our dealings with our fellow man, and woman. I submit, however, that in the context of email, we should all be relieved of the obligation to send the routine "thanks" email to acknowledge a response to a routine request. I won't do the arithmetic here, but I think any of u can calculate the time cost of opening an email, reading it and deleting it. Its not worth it.

Henceforth all responses to emails shall be deemed to be properly acknowledged and appreciated. "Thanks" beyond that is unnecessary (and not appreciated).

John B. Quinn
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, LLP
865 South Figueroa Street, 10th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90017
Telephone: 213-443-3000
Facsimile: 213-443-3100
E-mail: johnquinn@quinnemanuel.com
Web: www.quinnemanuel.com

"There is nothing which is not the subject of debate. Amidst all this bustle tis not reason which carries the prize but eloquence, and no man needs ever despair of gaining prosyletites to the most extravagant hypothesis who has art enough to represent it in any favorable colors. The victory is not gained by the men at arms who manage the pike and sword, but by the trumpeters, drummers and musicians of the army."

--David Hume

Fuck Doctor Quinn and the medicine woman.

I call BS on 71's story. No way that happened. You wish.

Good God this firm is full of idiots, a "thanks" or "thx" (which is typical in my experience) is a confirmation that whatever was reqested (routine or not) was received. Back in the day if I was asked to send a precedent to a junior, the response (whether it was a "thanks", "thx" or "nice precdent") was confirmation that my contribution was done and I didn't need to follow up. The fucking 3 seconds it took to read the response was well worth any follow up that would have otherwise transpired.

How this firm gets clients is beyond me, every practicing lawyer (competitor or in-house) should forward this thread to every lawyer they know. What a complete fuckup of a law firm....I'm glad they weren't around when I was doing OCI.

Hum, it strikes me that Messrs Ubeeque, or what ever his name is, and small "Q" quinn ought on the same page here. Maybe these turds don't get each others' e-mails.

If the kid (who really should have been checking his blackberry) had shot Uqeeerhart a message back saying, "Thanks, I'm on it," he might have been a victim of a john quinn formal e-mail admonishing him that he was wasting" Uqwikfart's time by making him look at his blackberry.

257,

Ah the irony. lol.

This firm's name partners obviously have too much time on their hands. Step away from the email.

And perhaps Quinn's email is why Urquhart assumed that the associate had received his email and completed the task....

Who the hell is running things over there?

The partners should get rid of the d-bag who sent this e-mail.

And they say Office Space is an exaggeration.

As I hope others have pointed out, though I am too lazy to read the comments above, the most interesting thing about this situation is the following. The firm was trying to "impress" a new client, but Urquhart "assumed" what he intended had been done. If I were the "new client", I would be more troubled by Urquhart's "assumption" than by anything else. It would say a lot to me . . . . .

Ellie
you need to post the second Quinn email pronto! Its too juicy to let go!

Ellie
you need to post the second Quinn email pronto! Its too juicy to let go!

The partner just needs to feel important. My advice to young associates is to work for partners who have lives and interest outside of the office. The ones who derive all their self-esteem from work will ruin you. Avoid them at all costs.

that "thanks" email is ridiculous.

ps: CHECK YOU EMAILS!

266, what partners would those be, pray tell. In theory, we have partners who have interests outside the firm. In practice, becoming a partner precludes such interest. I remember one partner talking about work/life balance and revealing that he had a satisfying home life because he managed to see his small kids "three nights a week." Another partner claims to play music at local bars. When we discussed music, it was clear that he didn't know anything. He used his putative musical talents as a way to show he was cool, and "understood" associates. The guy knew next to nothing. I'll bet the guy can't play a chord.

Biglaw is really a freaking waste of humanity. I have gotten crap for taking my 2 weeks of vacation in one shot (never mind that at that point (August) I had already billed 2100+ hours); going somewhere there was no Blackberry signal and not having a phone number of a hotel where I would be staying (happens when you go somewhere remote to kayak a river). Assholes, you know who you are, made me rent a f'ing satellite phone! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure if this has been said. But if this was so important, why was the partner leaving at 7:30? And why didn't he check HIS email afterwards to see if the fax had been sent.

Not sure if this has been said. But if this was so important, why was the partner leaving at 7:30? And why didn't he check HIS email afterwards to see if the fax had been sent.

Where was Urquhart between 7:30 and 10:20 (next day)? Why wasn't he available 24|7 (sic)?

What a craptastic firm!

What is a Faith Gay?

Before offering above market salaries for associates in 2007, I had never heard about this firm. I have read/skimmed their website, besides some self-congratulatory blowhard puffery and advertising for the weak minded, I don't understand what this QE firm could do that another firm couldn't.

You don't have to check your blackberries but clients and partners expect it. It is completely up to you but then don't blame unfair reviews when you find yourself without work. Call me a dick if you want. I am just telling you that this is how things work. When you are a partner you can change the rules and make law firms kinder, gentler places. Until then, know that partners notice it every time an associate beats them to an e-mail by saying he/she saw it and is on it. We also notice it when we don't hear from an associate for hours or a day on something that is that associate's subject area to monitor. A failure to be on top of something makes me think you don't care. If you do that more than a few times, then I stop giving you work. Word gets out that you don't stay on top of your work and people start to think you are not committed, ambitious, or interested and others stop giving you work. This happens quickly and you are sunk. So, blow smoke up our asses like the work we are giving is the end-all, be-all until you find another job. If you don't want to do it, someone else does so move over and let them have the space you are taking up.

BTW: I always thought I would be "different" too. But once you are in the job, you realize WHY many partners are demanding. They want to get and keep the work that you all expect us to generate to keep you employed and to make sure you have lucrative summer opportunities. You expect us to"feed" you, you better "eat."

"I always thought I would be "different" too. But once you are in the job, you realize WHY many partners are demanding. They want to get and keep the work that you all expect us to generate to keep you employed and to make sure you have lucrative summer opportunities. "

Semi-Freudian slip much? Why didn't you say "WE" want to get and keep....."

Either you're a liar, or a shitty partner. Either is just as relevant. This is why the law profession is in the dumpster....the "top" lawyers simply aren't that good at anything.

277, sorry, I don't get your point. Nothing freudian about it.

276 - Shouldn't you be working right now?

My point is it is a slip , the proper response is "We want to get and keep the work that you all expect us....." (assuming you are not a liar), or rather "They want to get and keep the work that you all expect them...." (assuming you are a liar).

'I would be more troubled by Urquhart's "assumption" than by anything else.'

How true.

277: You can say that I am a shitty partner. That is fine. I have great clients and great work. My book is big enough to ensure that I am well provided for and have not had to sweat much over the last two years. The associates that have proved to me that they can meet my standards have plenty of work, will get bonuses and are not worried about their jobs. They have plenty of autonomy and run their own projects with me as a team member, not a boss. The ones that get sick of the pressure have been candid, have gotten great references from me and many are now in jobs at my clients or in other jobs that I helped them get. I'm a demanding partner but my people are protected and doing things that most associated don't get to do. So I don't feel bad that you don't like my point of view. I probably wouldn't want you on my team either.

279, nope. I have associates to work on weekends.

276 isn't a liar, it's John Quinn. The typos are the result of him focusing so hard on hitting the Shift key to hide his identity.

JFC, 280, it is just a blog and I post for pure entertainment while watching football. I type and post. I don't proof or spell check.

276, 282, you are a shitty partner. Your book of business and whether you keep clients is immaterial to associates. You treat associates as if they should care about you, but don't give a fuck about them. Your generation is the most worthless, self-obsessed, egomaniacal generation that had the privilege to run this country. No wonder the legacy my generation left you is being squandered and America will become a third world shit hole.

Your job as partner is to arrange for work to come in, distribute it to the associates, supervise their work and correct mistakes when made. Your job is not to hold work in front of them like a piece of meat being dangled in front of a prey animal. If you think it is, trust me, you will get eaten, because sooner or later there is always someone that comes along who is smarter and bigger than you, that someone may just be your mistreated associates.

282 is right on.

'I can assure you that John Quinn, Peter Calamari, Mike Carlinsky, Faith Gay, Fred Lorig, etc. all check their emails often."

Really? Are you sure about that?

282, my apologies, you truly are a partner, no one else could be so self-centered than to make 15 self-references (I, me, my, blah blah blah) in a short paragraph for pure entertainment.

I can only hope you've managed to become asexual to pleasure your own ego.

Why nagging a man doesn’t work…
What a woman says:
“This place is a mess! C’mon,
You and I need to clean up,
Your stuff is lying on the floor
and you’ll have no clothes to wear,
if we don’t do laundry right now!”

What a man hears:
blah, blah, blah, blah, C’MON
blah, blah, blah, blah, YOU AND I
blah, blah, blah, blah, ON THE FLOOR
blah, blah, blah, blah, NO CLOTHES
blah, blah, blah, blah, RIGHT NOW

282, your book might be big enough to make you feel like a real big man, but based on your vindictive, asinine take on associates, I'm confident that you lose in life regularly. You may not want me on my team, but no one wants to be anywhere near you. Do you ever wonder why associates hate their lives and don't want to end up like the people they work for? Clown.

Why nagging a man doesn’t work…
What a woman says:
“This place is a mess! C’mon,
You and I need to clean up,
Your stuff is lying on the floor
and you’ll have no clothes to wear,
if we don’t do laundry right now!”

What a man hears:
blah, blah, blah, blah, C’MON
blah, blah, blah, blah, YOU AND I
blah, blah, blah, blah, ON THE FLOOR
blah, blah, blah, blah, NO CLOTHES
blah, blah, blah, blah, RIGHT NOW

282 is exactly the type of partner that has made law firms such toxic places to work and fostered bitterness among associates.

Give Bill a break, he really is cool

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-134989782.html

They went to Spain, planning to stay ahead of stampeding cattle. They came back with a once-in-a-lifetime story.

John Quinn and Bill Urquhart, partners in L.A.-based Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, have returned from the annual festival in Pamplona that honors the city's patron San Fermin with parties, music, bullfights, and a daily morning sprint ahead of 1,500-pound bulls. They had been planning the trip for a decade, and went with an attorney from New York, Don Rosenberg.

"Every minute, Bill is thinking, 'How can this be more fun?' " says Quinn, who met Urquhart when they were both associates.

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Urquhart_A._19715360.aspx

286, every person posting here is an abstraction. I assure you that I care about my team and they know it. I don't care about sniveling babies who want to be handled like new borns. Man up. I don't dangle work like meat. If I think you are good, you get a ROFR on every piece of work I bring in. If you are good, I bend over backwards to keep you happy. If you are good, I never bitch about vacations, leaving early, or any other consideration. If you are good, you are at the table when a client needs decisions made. If you are lousy, then I don't give a crap if my book or clients don't impress you because you are pretty irrelevant to me. Finally, I am always happy for the competition.

289, you want insight into how people think, but you don't like it when someone is telling you the truth from their point of view. Maybe if you tried to understand my point of view like you expect me to understand yours, partners and associates would find more common ground. Instead, you want empathy with nothing in return. I have been where you are and remember how it felt. You have not yet been in my shoes and just maybe I might know something that you don't.

I fault the partner. If you really want to make sure something gets done, call the associate. New pieces of technology such as BlackBerries are supposed to increase our communication options, not reduce them. I'm tired of people using e-mail as an excuse for anti-social behavior in the workplace. Go stop by the associate's office if it is that important. If he already left, give him a call. That's a sure way to make sure the project gets done.

269 - You are a child. Your post is ridiculous. News flash: Assuming you actually are a lawyer, you are a professional. That means you should act like one, which includes being available if and when people need you. If you need to run off to summer camp for two weeks every August, away from phones and Bberry service, find another career. Maybe Disney fairy?

FOLKS, NOBODY IS MAKING YOU WORK IN THESE JOBS!

Little tiny children . . .

quinn sucks monkey balls

"has there been ANY positive news out of QE other than their 100% offer rate in NYC (at the expense of other offices)? the redskins emails, deferring incoming associates the week before the bar without stipends, and now this?"

Don't forget the time Quinn published that confidential settlement on Facebook!

296 = 13 more self-references in the first paragraph.

QE needs better QA

This is so typical of someone who f**** up and then try to find another person to blame. If a fax is important, you make sure it is faxed. You should not assume anything.

234 and 239: this is the email in question.

From: john quinn
To: All Personnel
Date: 9/25/09 12:55 PM
Subject: Permission to be discourteous (part of a continuing series), vol. 1, no. 1.

We have all been raised to be courteous in our dealings with our fellow man, and woman. I submit, however, that in the context of email, we should all be relieved of the obligation to send the routine "thanks" email to acknowledge a response to a routine request. I won't do the arithmetic here, but I think any of u can calculate the time cost of opening an email, reading it and deleting it. Its not worth it.

Henceforth all responses to emails shall be deemed to be properly acknowledged and appreciated. "Thanks" beyond that is unnecessary (and not appreciated).

John B. Quinn
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, LLP
865 South Figueroa Street, 10th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90017
Telephone: 213-443-3000
Facsimile: 213-443-3100
E-mail: johnquinn@quinnemanuel.com
Web: www.quinnemanuel.com

"There is nothing which is not the subject of debate. Amidst all this bustle tis not reason which carries the prize but eloquence, and no man needs ever despair of gaining prosyletites to the most extravagant hypothesis who has art enough to represent it in any favorable colors. The victory is not gained by the men at arms who manage the pike and sword, but by the trumpeters, drummers and musicians of the army."

--David Hume

304 - That email has been published about 10 times on this thread. Can you read?

297 is correct. If the associate did not acknowledge the email, why would the partner assume he received it and completed the task? Why did he not call the associate to make sure he was at the office? Why didn't he put the letter in the fax machine himself (probably so he could bill for emailing the associate and asking him to do it).

306 - You clearly do not work for a law firm. Call to follow up??? That's a babysitter, not a partner. And why did the partner need to do it? This is a perfect assignment for a junior associate.

307, because they "were trying to impress" a client?

If any QE client reads this thread, I hope to hell they fire QE for incompetence.

If I have a client that I'm trying to impress, I follow up, if the associate isn't doing his/her job, that will be addressed, but there will be a follow-up. This isn't a fucking babysitting service moron.

Wow, over 300 comments. This post has tapped into the discontent of associates.

The partners who run the big firms aided and abetted the banks in creating the financial crisis. The associates are pissed because we are the ones who are suffering the consequences of the older generation's risky (and often amoral) behavior.

Urquhart knows that he can abuse associates all he wants. He's got millions in the bank. He can provide for his family. But most associates are scarred shitless that they are going to be thrown to the curb with the thousands of other young, out-of-work lawyers. The partners know that we are in this position of weakness and that they can abuse us all they want. That's why when a post like this one goes up on ATL, exposing how awful these partners are, we come out in droves to tell the world, "Yep, these partners that currently rule the world of big law are a bunch of assholes."

308 -

Because I work for a firm, I realize "[t]his isn't a fucking babysitting service." That was the point of my post that you clearly are not a lawyer.

You suggested that the partner call the associate to make sure he got the email. In my three years of post JD work, I have never once received a call from a partner making sure that I received an email assignment, no matter how important. And I would honestly be annoyed if I had. That's micro managging. Most responsible associates don't want the email, the phone call, the personal visit . . .

You're a real genius. Maybe the partner should have held the associate's hand as they skipped to the fax machine together? Show the associate how to punch the buttons? That would be real follow up.

You're a moron. This was a easy assignment. The associate screwed up.

Good luck with your law school finals! You'll be a big boy some day!

308

This is the biggest tempest in a teapot from a website that makes its living off tempests in teapots. Bill Urquhart is a wonderful guy. His only fault is that he is often too blunt. He didn't have to specify the associate. But he's right that associates should check their blackberries often to prevent catastrophes. This thread got a lot of mileage from Elie's stupid mistake of not being able to differentiate between an email and a commentary line (that's the real story, IMO - very moronic). The associate should check his emails more often, and the tone of this email is clearly meant to give advice to associates (although execution was clumsy, and perhaps too clearly expresses Urquhart's annoyance/frustration/anger). Grow up people. At some law firms, partners yell at associates and get off on it. I'm an associate at Quinn. The partners treat us well. Bill's a great guy.

296, what utter crap -- every person is an abstraction, my team. Do you actually consider what you write? Life is not about you, snowflake, and what someone can do for you, just because you lucked into a client.

311, I commend your team-spirit and your ability to see the big picture. There is something little on the corner of your mouth.

311, HE DIDN'T SPECIFY THE ASSOCIATE!!!!

Please read the email. Slowly. With your index finger.

They sure do hire 'em smart at Quinn. Bet you stop checking BB at 7:30, too.

311,

"This thread got a lot of mileage from Elie's stupid mistake of not being able to differentiate between an email and a commentary line"

Had that mistake not been present it would still receive the same attention. As a matter of fact, comments 50-300+ have come after the line was removed. The sentiment remains the same.

"Grow up people"

Shouldn't partners do the same? Isn't such an email (a poorly written one) childish and inane? We know it's a business. The problem we have is that it is often an inefficient and poorly managed one.

"I have never once received a call from a partner making sure that I received an email assignment, no matter how important."

Then you work for a shit partner at a shit law firm and you likely got shit assignments. How does you partner know the e-mail went through (in my years at BIGLAW we had more than a few downtimes - yes, I'm not a law student fucktard)? How did he know you weren't incapacitated? How does he know that there isn't a power outage at the firm? And what the fuck are you doing sending faxes out and charging hundreds of dollars for it? Does your POS firm not have office services?

Either the client is important or the client isn't, QE apparently doesn't think the client is important enough for a billing partner to make sure things are done. Newsflash dickhead, there are hundreds of other firms that can do the work.

BTW, enjoy your assignments faxing things. Have you ever worked a real lawyer day in your life?

308 - 306 here. Actually I am a litigation partner at a large law firm in D.C. (over 200 attorneys). When I have something important that needs to get done, I make sure it is done. I don't send an email and then assume it will happen. News flash, junior associates make mistakes. As a partner it is my job to make sure those mistakes are small ones. Also, there could be many legitimate reasons why the associate was not checking emails. I had an associate once go missing on me because his wife was in an accident and he was at the hospital.

In this case, assuming the partner could not find a secretary or paralegal to fax the document, he should have sent an email to the associate making sure the fax went out. After all, he is apparently on his BlackBerry every hour.

I also pity you if the work you are getting at your firm makes you think that an appropriate assignment for a junior associate is faxing and photocopying. You can't reasonably bill a client for an attorney's time spent faxing a letter. That is why we have support staff.

Bottom line - Should the associate check emails a couple of times a night, yes. Should the partner have assumed his task was done if he did not even know if the associate got the email, no. Is a public flogging of a junior associate ever appropriate, no. There was no reason to single out this associate. We don't treat associates like that at my firm. This should have been handled one on one.

The number of Quinn haters commenting on this blog amazes me. My guess is that most of you are from shitty law firms who got beat by the smarter, better litigators Quinn. To whoever asked if there's been any positive news from Quinn, you must not be reading the AmLaw Litigation Daily. In just the the last couple of months Quinn has won huge victories for IBM, Gov. Patterson, Roche, and a dismissal of a case worth $1B for AIG. Not to mention the fact that Quinn's gone from being a relatively obscure litigation boutique to a highly profitable V25 in just a few short years. The fact of the matter is (notwithstanding comments from fake "in-house counsel" such as 139) a stupid email like this will not make a lick of difference to potential clients. All that matters is results. That's why we're on practically every Fortune 500 GC's short list of "go to" firms for bet-the-company litigation. We win; you lose. That's why you hate on us.

311,
Sure, dude. I think the story is actually the "clumsy" tone, as you call it. That, and Urquhart sounds pretty dumb and petty. You may think QE treats it's associates well, but that contradicts the unanimous opinion of the dozen or so associates I know who have worked there. You can get paid the same amount of money elsewhere and not put up with the QE bullshit.

Hey 316 -

At Big Boy Firms, we have this little technological feature called email. It's super fancy. You can check when the email went through. You can even check the exact instant that the recipient read the email. It's pretty cool what these computer things can do now days.

In all seriousness, you really want a partner to email you an assignment and then call you 15 minutes later to make sure you are doing the assignment? Really??? That makes you feel big and special? Does that make you feel like you're a real attorney?

I bet you like the way the partner wipes you, too.

Love,
310

"My guess is that most of you are from shitty law firms who got beat by the smarter, better litigators Quinn."

Fucking amazing.

Wow. I think it is amazing that people think partners need to make sure new associates fax. What has happened to the legal profession?

Look, we have to face it 296 (who has to be john quinn or Bill Urquhart or one of their colleagues) is right. That is how partners look at associates. If you do everything they want, when they want, kiss some ass, indulge their ideosyncracies, and look at them lovingly, you will be fine as long as they have clients. That is just the way it works. But that is what gets you the big bucks.

You should check your e-mail every couple of hours. That is part of the job, too. And don't take vacations where you are out of contact. Do not schedule dinners or book non-refundable vacations. That is not the job you signed on for.

I would not bring my blackberry to church or a parent/teacher conference, but I would check it the moment I got out.

I suspect that john quinn, Bill Urquhart and 296 are seriously flawed, if rich, people. This post has really called them out on that and exposed them to ridicule for what they are from here to India. But they are the people we work for.

And it doesn't always get better in smaller law.

But now is a good time to get out. However, there are no legal jobs available anywhere except those in Ames, Iowa where minimum requirements include patent law, appellate experience (preferably Supreme Court), employment law, oil and gas, membership in the bars of New Hampshire and California, governmental, teaching, in-house and law firm experience and fluency in Mandarin and Spanish.

So we're stuck with jerks like quinn, Uruqhart, 296 and others until they fire us or we explode.

Over 300 comments? For real? I am so confused. What's the story here? Associates should check their email all the time an be responsible? Biglaw partners can be harsh sometimes? Is any of this news? Or is the real story that Quinn has at least one totally disloyal associate who is willing to email this crap to ATL when 99% of you have gotten similar emails at your firms and never forwarded them?

Hey 310, for a lawyer don't you think it is a little weird that you posted a lot of words about being a "real attorney" and never mentioned the word "CLIENT"? Have you actually worked with a client before?

I can assure you, the client doesn't care if a fax comes from a partner, associate or secretary. Maybe this is why BIG BOY firms like Thelen, TPW and Heller went down, maybe they were too busy feeling big and special.

You need a new profession. I'm not an associate dicknose. But I can tell you this, if something needs to be done for a CLIENT (the people that pay your salary), I make sure it gets done.

One more time: CLIENT. They are the people we work for. If you want to give your Big Boy partner a reacharound, have at it, but if the CLIENT doens't pay him/her, you won't get paid.

310/320 -

Apparently the QE partner is not aware of the read receipt function or this would not have been a problem.

If the assignment was something critical to the client, I would have acknowledged the email and the partner would not have to call. If I were the client and was waiting on the fax, yes, I would want the partner to make sure my work was getting done. I would not want the partner to assume it was being done.

317 -

"When I have something important that needs to get done, I make sure it is done."

The QE partner did. The next morning. When he found out that the associate was too either too stupid or too entitled to be able to send out a damn fax.

(Suuuuure, you're a partner. That is why you have nothing better to do on a Saturday than get into arguments with ATL commenters. Hahahahaha. You're such a douche.)

318, Wow, just wow. Keep drinking the Quinn kool-aid.

From the blowhard self-defense that Quinn is throwing up, I have now come to the conclusion that there must be something very, very wrong in that firm.

"The QE partner did. The next morning."

Damn important assignment apparently!

318, what is the colour of your sky?

325 -

310 here. For better or worse, my failure to mention the word client is how you know that I am indeed a Biglaw associate. I hate to disturb your little law student world view, but don't get to touch clients at this level. Clients are merely a number that you have to write down in order to log your hours.

Law students, please stop posting!

Cliff's Notes on the the settlement/facebook thing. TIA

My momma always said, Fordham is as Fordham does.

327 -

Making sure a task that needs to get done in the evening by checking the next morning is not really making sure the task get done.

I don't care whether or not you believe I am a partner. But honestly, you don't think even partners check to see if the firm's name comes up on this blog? I check once a day, right before I go home. Though in my day we used to post in the forums for the various Yahoo "Greedy Associates" groups, which overall were more informative and fun than this blog.

Good luck on your career.

"Bill Urquhart is a wonderful guy. "

Whaaaaa? Really? I know Bill Urquhart by reputation (before this whole thing), and I haven't heard many call him a wonderdul guy. I guess I should reconsi...

"I'm an associate at Quinn. The partners treat us well. Bill's a great guy."

Oh. Gotcha. I hope you wrote it from your work computer and your HR tracks it and realizes what a wonderful company man you are!

'I hate to disturb your little law student world view, but don't get to touch clients at this level."

As a 3rd year, Jesus it is worse than I thought. Well for those of us that grew out of our professional diapers (surely you don't think I'm dumb enough to pay $45,000 in tuition these days, eff me when I was in law school tuition was under $20,000), you should listen to us that if you want to get anywhere, make your clients happy.

And stop licking your boss' dick. They will eventually screw you over.

"It was for a relatively new client whom we were trying to impress."

Does this mean once you are client, Quinn doesn't care anymore?

3 2 1 let the Quinn Whinging begin.

I'd rather be at Quinn stressing out about actual WORK than stressing out about LAYOFFS, like most of you.

'Though in my day we used to post in the forums for the various Yahoo "Greedy Associates" groups,"

Ahh, the good ole days. "Gator", "New York Doll", "420", "Alex deLarge", something to be said for requiring registration.

"Unless you have very good reason not to (for example when you are asleep, in court or in a tunnel), you should be checking your emails every hour. One of the last things you should do before you retire for the night is to check your email. That is why we give you blackberries. "

I hope every laid off associate uses this little gem to file a complaint for recognition as an hourly employee under FLSA.

- an employment lawyer

335 -

It was a fax. A stupid fax. An inane assignment that a monkey could do. That kind of assignment does not require follow through when one works with industrious, intelligent associates.

I am sorry that you are a *partner* at a firm where the associates are this pathetically stupid.

(Suuuuuure you are. Checking blogs for dirt is different than engaging in arguments. You're such a douche.)

"I'd rather be at Quinn stressing out about actual WORK than stressing out about LAYOFFS, like most of you."

Faxing counts as actual work at Quinn? Well, ok, if you are secretary.

'I am sorry that you are a *partner* at a firm where the associates are this pathetically stupid. "

I'm sorry you are an associate at a firm where your assignment is to send a fax.

- NOT 335

If A William Urquhart is such a wonderful guy, and if he is such an in demand guy with such a big book of business,

why doesn't Bill apologize publicly for going off (somewhat irrationally) and put his wallet where his mouth is - a few k for some charity would do his humility (and others good).

"24\7" Huh? Isn't it /?

344 -

So , it was you! Have you been fired yet? You planning on shutting off your Blackberry soon? What were you thinking?!

ATL should conduct a poll re: which of the following four Quinn partner mass emails in the past year was the douchiest.

The Quinn partner's firm-wide email announcing a victory against a minority group that was suing a NFL team to stop the use of a name that it considered derogatory

The Quinn partner's firm-wide email publicly scolding a first year associate for pointing out the possiblly inconsiderate nature of Quinn partner No. 1's email. [aka The one with a typo/grammatical mistake in the subject line]

The Quinn partner's firm-wide email broadcasting a junior associates mistake - all in the name of a teachable moment (and not at all in retaliation). [aka The second one with a typo/grammatical mistake in the subject line]

The Quinn partner's firm-wide email directing everyone to stop sending 'unnecessary (and unappreciated' ) thank you emails. [aka The email by a partner with an aversion to capital letters.]

348, does the facebook/confidential settlement thingy merit a ranking?

349

You mean there's more?

--348

336: yes, Bill is a wonderful guy. Unlike you, I've actually met him, so I think I'm in a better position to judge. No, I did not send this email from work. 313: that's rude. 314: he didn't name the associate by name, but I'm guessing that some people can figure out who it is or take a guess. I understood the email. I read it before you did. 315: QE is actually pretty well managed. 319: perhaps the people who left Quinn couldn't hack it, or if they could, don't want to practice biglaw, or if they do, had bad experiences with specific individuals here, or if not, were not a good fit. Could be a number of things, but obviously, if your pool of respondents to your anecdotal straw poll is only former associates, there would naturally be a bias against the firm by those who decided it wasn't for them (or who were asked to leave - I don't know their situations, as I said before). You'd have to talk to associates who still work here, like me, to get a more accurate picture. Individuals' mileage may vary. I'm happy here.

The next time I go for a colonscopy I'll decline the anesthesia so I can respond to emails during the procedure.

351, thank you for your comments, please check your emails. i think i know who you are and i will be sending you an electronic gift certificate. no need to send a thank you email, as per john.

bill

I just checked my e-mail, and a senior partner wants me to come into the office and suck his dick and swallow. My wife wants me to go out to dinner tonight, then she might suck my dick when we go to bed. What to do?

354, does she swallow, or is that only required at your job. If you are employed at Quinn, don't forget to check your email during the dick sucking.

355, yes I'm a Quinner, and it's really hard to check e-mail while sucking a partner's dick. They expect your full attention, with one hand on their balls and the other stroking away. Yes, my wife swallows, so I guess that could count as dinner, but my wife would be really pissed if I came home late from the office with sticky fingers.

282, honestly, could you be a bigger douchemagnet? What day was it that you woke up and realized that your were a pale disgusting shell of the person you one had been? Actually, excuse me, you may never have been a decent person.

Quinners are Winners!
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¡now check your emails!

Quinners, what happens if you go somewhere where you don't have email access, like your house?

I hope 351 doesnt have a bad experience with a specific individual around there. If specific individuals have that much power there, 351 had better watch who he pees next to, and better damn well be checking his blackberry while he is doing it.

If Bill is such a wonderful guy, he should apologize for that e-mail that caused himself well-deserved public ridicule and exposed his firm to what has to be great embarrassment. That Quinn guy seems like a real treasure, too.

If 326 worked at QE and sent that acknowledgement fax, John Quinn would be all over him for wasting the partner's time.

Mass email was uncalled for. That said, this associate should be fired.

"What? Thats SOOOO HARSH" you say.

Well there is enormous excess capacity out there. I can name over a dozen laid off associates out there who would not make this mistake, but were never given a chance to show they were better than most.

In a layoff year, one mistake should mean that you are fired and replaced. Because for lots of people, no mistakes meant that they were fired (laid off) and replaced (incoming classes, deferments and all, are still nonzero).

Whoever made this error, any resentment he feels at this rough treatment is understandable. But he is bless to still have a job after messing up something so incredibly easy.

361, I agree. That associate should be fired. He will be ultimately, most likely, because if he irritated a name partner-- as wonderful as we are told he is-- he is history. Nobody forgets or forgives anything.

Urquhart ought to be fired too. It would save some money and reduce the likelihood that he will embarrass the firm in the future.

Then the person who sent the john quinn memo should go to, as should the person in HR who did not include in the policy manual a statement that employees are required to check their blackberries on an hourly basis.

This is a great opportunity for some great retaliation in true big law style.

Remember, partners only get paid if associates are willing to bill hours for them. He just became the least popular guy to work for... hope his associates are not too passive aggressive.

"In a layoff year, one mistake should mean that you are fired and replaced."

Idiotic statement.

To all those who posted asking why all the fuss, I ask you to examine why you come to ATL website, which is, in case you haven't noticed, a site with the stated goal of being a legal tabloid. If you want law-related news, I hear the WSJ has a fine legal blog as do many other publications. But if you are an associate (past, present or future) at a big-law firm, this site is a great way to get back at some of the asshole partners that populate biglaw (although I must admit I really liked most of the partners I worked with at my old firm).

That said, I hate it when ATL takes some email/mistake that someone makes, which had it not been for the internet, would have happened and been relegated to obscurity or become plain ol' law-firm lore, and posts it on its website for all the world to know until eternity, if the world happens to google such person's name.

I LOVE it when ATL does the same thing with respect to emails that four Quinn partners knowingly and intentionally sent out to hundreds of recipients at a national (international?) firm. After the first such email got forwarded to ATL, you gotta figure the other Quinn partners were basically begging to be publicly mocked, no?

"this site is a great way to get back at some of the asshole partners that populate biglaw" - let's unpack that statement:

petty? check
pathetic? check
impotent? check

364 - 361 here.

Yeah its idiotic in the sense that the turnover would kill the firms, so it would never happen.

But in the sense of what the associate deserves? Fired.

If that associate is going to get fired like everyone here is predicting, I hope he/she does something more epic than not sending a fax before getting called in by HR.

306, if I have to call you, it is too late

361/367, that kid has no future. Given that there are no law jobs available outside of the foreclosure area, he or she should begin looking for a job as a cop or firefighter now before he/she gets too old or fat.

I doubt the fax mistake will get the associate fired, but sending the email to ATL (if that person is discovered) is definitely grounds for dismissal.

312, I write it to irk you. It is fun.

363, only partially true. i take a pay hit for every summer and first year because clients won't pay for them. i take a hit everytime an associate is inefficient and I have to write off their time. I could go on but you get the point

I hope that idiot reviews his draft letters better than his shitty e-mails.

341=FAIL

Is Quinn the weirdest firm ever? Discuss

373: you're just proving/supporting my point. Hope you are not a litigator.

--363

Yes, Quinn is indeed the weirdest firm ever.

It all starts at the top - when the first name partner in a firm refuses to capitalize proper nouns and the first word in a sentence, there are consequences. Lesser partners begin to think it's okay to send out mass emails with glaring grammatical errors. Junior associates think it's okay to send mass emails using the same tone/terminology one would use on a facebook wall.

I shudder to think what the legal assistants and secretaries will do next. It's anarchy, people.

"Before I left the office at about 7:30 I sent an email to this associate asking him to perform a task—fax a draft letter for review and comment."

Unless the client was in a more westerly time zone, what are the odds that the intended receipient of the fax wasn't even in the office to read the letter at 7:30 p.m. or later? As others have said, wouldn't e-mailing the draft letter have been faster? Does this big-time client not have an e-mail address? In which case, couldn't E-Mail King Urquhart have e-mailed the draft letter to the client in about five seconds before leaving the office?

378, along those lines... not sure if it's such a good thing to have Quinn on your resume... Way to go Quinn, hope you don't shoot your other foot.

By the way, the North Korean bit - Quinn John ill - strangely seems to fit. No, I'm not the guy posting. Wondering if he is/was an insider.

Use email people. I'm doing good to check my fax machine once a week!

378: Do you mean something like this:

http://abovethelaw.com/2007/08/an_update_on_litigation_suppor.php

Apparently, they treat legal assistants and secretaries even worse.

It just makes me wonder: Why would anyone choose this? Most biglaw associates could have done anything - but instead they spend their days moving money from X to Y, putting up with shit like this all the time. I honestly don't get it - it can't possibly be the money. Any big law associate could have made plenty in a career that would be way more fulfilling.

I think it fair for an "elite" firm to expect frequent BB checking generally (part of the reason I wouldn't want to work there...); but as others have noted, if something is really urgent, a phone call or reply-required e-mail to confirm it's been received are de rigeur.

Even someone who normally checks their e-mail religiously might have circumstances like, medical issues (I know several people who came down with H1N1 and had to seek medical attention, someone might have an incipient migraine and have gone to bed unusually early, etc.); technical problem ranging from forgetting to recharge to theft to dropping their BB in a puddle (I know someone that happened to); etc. If none of this applied to the associate then yes, he/she was in the wrong; but the partner was really in the wrong, for simply assuming it would get done without verification (phone, reply e-mail, whatever).

393, that is an easy question to answer. Most law students choose law school in their junior years of college when they are 20 or 21 years old. If you have never worked for a law firm or worked a real job, you don't know what you want or what you're getting into. So you invest in three more years of school because being a lawyer sounds good and appears to have a high starting salary. If you worked as a paralegal for even a year, you would make a much better decision. Unfortunately, this is the exception and not the rule.

I think Quinn has an excellent case of promissory estoppel. Discuss.

311, come forward and receive your medal and an extra ration of rice. Your dedication to my glorious regime is noted. Please post your name and you will be justly rewarded.

Quinn is a weird place. It's populated by (mostly) men who had good grades (but not tip-top), and have semi-Alpha male personalities (but not ballsy enough to go solo or be a politician or banker type). It's a cultural thing - everyone mocks Quinn, and Quinn mocks everybody else. In short, they are so arrogant they don't care they are disliked.

That said, this is a PR disaster. Quinn has been in the news enough for the wrong reasons that their reputation among law students is taking a hit. And that ain't good news.

It's shit like this which makes me happy to be with the U.S. government now. D-bag is probably pissed that his salary went from $4 million to $3.9 million because of the recession. Seriously, no amount of money is worth it.

Laid off Big Law Associate who is Starting to Realize that the Pink Slip and Three Months Severance was the Best Thing that Could Have PossiblyHappened to Him.

I think you should all CHECK YOU EMAILS. Discuss.

What is the best way to leak a firm-wide email? I'm completely paranoid about these things. I would worry that somehow the firm could track it back to me. Like, "our logs show that no one forwarded the email and only one person printed it out - you."

this is some amusing schaddenfreude. Seriously, there are now more commenters with an opinion on QE than there are attorneys at their firm.

and that email was b.s. If the associate has any cojones, he'd wait till 1130 pm and write a big FU back to Urquhart, cc the whole firm and ATL.

391 - be a man and just do it. But if you're paranoid, just select all, hit copy, then paste into an ATL comment. You cant lose.

388, get over yourself. This is not a PR disaster. No one gives a crap, least of all clients that hire the partners at the firm. For every law student that does not want this firm, there are more than enough that do. And these same stories surface for every other firm. If you read this board long enough, you see that posters for Skadden, Latham, Mayer, Kirkland, Morgan, Dechert, Paul Wiess, Paul Hastings, McDermott, Mofo, Shulte, Milbank yada yada all claiming that their firm is the worst. So no matter where you go, you will have to suck up to the assholes that allegedly comprise the partnership at every illustrious Vault 100 firm in the land.

I think the email is deplorable. But many have asked why the draft letter would have to be faxed, not emailed, to the client.

Here's one reason I've encountered a few times: the client is traveling, and asks for the document to be faxed to the hotel. (Many people don't travel with their laptops, and reading/commenting on a Word document using a Blackberry is not easy, so fax is often most convenient.)

391 - hit copy, paste into word, print it, take it to kinkos, fax it to ATL, pay cash

396, if associates knew how to fax, we wouldn't be 397 comments deep on this topic.

397 -- I've worked in many offices, including two law firms, and all of them had step-by-step instructions posted on/near the fax machine spelling out how to use it.

Sorry, 394. There's a disproportionate amount of douche-iness emanating from the Quinn partnership. Ditto for Paul Hastings. It says a lot that in a space of one year, four partners managed to reveal their true nature, i.e, how they truly feel about apparently-not-american- enough Native Americans, how little they care about the law and their clients, and how little respect they have towards Quinn associates.

I don't find it a coincidence that two Paul Hastings associates decided two send bridge-burning departure emails either, having many friends who work at that firm as well.

400

NOW GO CHECK YOU EMAILS!

McDermott's the douchiest

399 - So true, Urquhart outed himself to every associate who hasn't worked with him

368 - that's why I always get in the office late these days. Lot's of people losing jobs and high stress everywhere with this recession - seems like someone's going to snap sooner or later

By saying that you may not answer if you are in a tunnel, that assumes you are checking bb while driving. Therefore, he is indirectly advocating breaking the law for the sake of client service. Someone should report him to the bar.

I was checking my blackberry when each of my four children was born.

- Partner Q. Douchebag

Partner Q. -- You are a slacker. I was in the office when all of my four children were born.

The comments here are amazing. Surprised at the partner's lack of leadership abilities? Shocked at his lack of tact? Harm to firm reputation? What? Clearly you have never worked in biglaw.

This guy is the RULE, not the exception. 90+ of biglaw partners are this guy. The only difference is that this guy went through the trouble of writing an email - most are too lazy/timid for that and would just backstab you later.

That is why biglaw sucks. That is why sane, reasonable people abhor biglaw. That is why biglaw has to pay people 160 to lure them into its web.

Uruqhart - did anyone even know he was a name partner? Always thought it was just quinn and emmanuel

quinn to 500

Urquhart should have expected to receive a response email from the associate, which should have said either "will do" or "done."

When Urquhart didn't get that email, he should have sent a second email, which said: "Can you confirm for me that you sent the fax?"

If Urquhart then got no response to the second email, he should have (a) called the associate and/or (b) found a way to make sure that the fax would be sent.

This is easy stuff. Any responsible litigation partner (and I speak as one) would take these steps. The fact that these things did not happen are all Urquhart's fault, not the associate's. If the fax was important enough, it is ridiculous for him to say that he just "assumed" it was sent. Does he also "assume" that local counsel files/serves papers in a timely manner? Or does he ask them to send him an email confirming that it's done? Attention to detail matters.

Why doesn't everyone offended by the email just send Urquhart an email this evening to see if he's checking his email. Right around when he'd be retiring, of course.

I thought it was Quinn Emanuel Urkel Oliver and Hedges. Who is this "Uruqhart" fellow?

Sweet crap, it took 410 posts, but finally 410 made the right point.

That said, why an associate needs to send a fax at a supposedly biglaw firm is still in question, and whether Quinn Emanuel charges clients for associate time sending faxes.

This is Dottore Enrico Bondi. I want my money back, Calamari. Vaffanculo.

413: but it was fun to get there

I love the "Henceforth" in Quinn's e-mail.

Henceforth you now shall be known as Darth Douchebag.

I love the "Henceforth" in Quinn's e-mail.

Henceforth you now shall be known as Darth Douchebag.

@410 awesome... and the fax apparently wasn't important enough in the first place!

It seems like most people commenting think "fax a draft letter for review and comment" means that the letter had already been drafted. Had it?

I work for people like this partner, and my reading is that he was telling the associate to draft a letter and then fax/email/whatever it in that certain "I-don't-even-have-the-courtesy-or-people-skills-to-acknowledge-that-I'm-ruining-your-night-and-it-doesn't-matter-because-I-own- you" way that these jerks tend to give assignments.

Gross.

400+ comments. That's pretty good. Most have been funny, some insightful and others pathetic. I know, cuz I've read them all because I have time as an unemployed lawyer stuck in his soon to be foreclosed house while his kids sleep.

Despite the protestations of a precious few, this guy must be a jerk of enormous proportions. He appears to be of an age where he remembers fondly his years of hard work as an associate stuffing letters written with carbon paper, licking countless 12 cent stamps, and running them down to the main post office well after hours. New kids should suffer just as did he.

Or perhaps he has just gotten a little dotty.

By this time, ATL must know the identity of the kid. I think ATL should start a poll on how soon the kid gets fired and how soon this Urquhart guy "retires" after a long and fulfilling career.

I think both these guys are out quickly.

I hope ATL keeps us posted.

373,

I'm crying for you. You made bank when I billed 2400 hours for you this year, and you paid me 20 cents on the dollar.

The real problem is that associate promotion in big law is dependent entirely on the subjective opinions (whims) of partners who are often arrogant, arbitrary, and mean-spirited. Law firms are monarchies, and sometimes you find yourself working for Stalin and Mao LLP. It's a racket, of course. The lack of clear benchmarks means that the partners can squeeze the associates of every drop of blood with the carrot of a very unlikely partnership and the stick of dismissal. Such hard work and dedication! But for what?

I would suggest a change of name for the partner because "Urquhart" sounds like squirrel farts

There is an unbelievable amount of stupid in these comments.

Fuck you, Bill. Do your clients know that they're spending $300+ an hour for new associates to operate fax machines?

You, sir, are a douche.

Just looked at the QE website and wow. At my firm we try to keep our client's names out of the news. QE seems to have gone another route.

Maybe that is why they mistakenly disclosed the value of the "confidential" settlement in the ConnectU/Facebook dispute.

And from the WSJ "ConnectU fired Quinn Emanuel last year, and they are now locked in a fee fight, with Quinn seeking $13 million pursuant to a contingency fee agreement. Although ConnectU threatened to sue the firm for malpractice, the two sides are now in arbitration in New York."

I guess this is the firm to call if you want asshole litigators instead of professional judgment and discretion.

Sound like this "short list" "go to firm" is doing great -- with the "handful" of layoffs and not being able to provide attorneys with free soda.

I realize we're not saving lives here, but......WE MAKE LOTS OF MONEY...IT DOES NOT COME WITHOUT SACRIFICE. Commenters are very quick to point out that they billed 2400 hours in one year and that they work so very hard blablabla....it's not really a big deal to check your BB at night, over the wknd, etc. Chances are, there's nothing to report. Sometimes there is....that's when the 26 year old making 160k in the midst of one of the worst recessions in this country's history should fire up their laptop and draft a f'n letter.

It's a partnership. We do not manufacture cogs or sell flip flops. We provide a service, the shit rolls downhill, everyone knew what they were getting into when they accepted their offers at a huge law firm. Practice managers check their email all wknd, too. Shit needs to be staffed, shit needs to be done and a client is paying huge $$ to make it happen.

410, you right in all respects, but you're still a total asshole, not to mention shithead. So you can put your shithead up your asshole. And the associate who wrote this just might be your go-to associate. Think about that dickhead.

The bottom line is that the all attorney email was unprofessional and showed poor judgment.

The same message could have been delivered in a better manner.

I am saddened that associates have come to accept that it is normal for partners to treat them poorly. That is not how we do it at my firm. Our associates are our future partners, so why would we want to treat them with disrespect.

shabbos

429, you obviously aren't a partner in BigLaw, where very few associates ever make partner, and where training associates to become assholes like the partners is part of basic associate training.

And in said partner's mind, his penis probably expanded from three to four inches when he hit "send" on his email and showed all of his power in its awesome glory. But in everyone else's mind, he is still a dick, no matter the size.

427, no need to shout. Check the results of the poll. Most people don't think it's unreasonable to have to check their BB or work weekends. Most people just think it shows bad judgement for Bill to send this email to everyone. Because 1, he's clearly doing it to vent, 2 has little regard for the fact that despite the associate mistake having caused no harm, bill's email has harmed the reputation of that associate within Quinn because it can't be hard for his colleagues to figure out who he is, and 3 bill takes no ownership for his mistaken assumptions and failure to follow up. I worked at Biglaw for 8 years. I would not assume a relatively new jr associate could handle squat. It's not that they are dumb. It's that they don't know law firm conventions.

427, no need to shout. Check the results of the poll. Most people don't think it's unreasonable to have to check their BB or work weekends. Most people just think it shows bad judgement for Bill to send this email to everyone. Because 1, he's clearly doing it to vent, 2 has little regard for the fact that despite the associate mistake having caused no harm, bill's email has harmed the reputation of that associate within Quinn because it can't be hard for his colleagues to figure out who he is, and 3 bill takes no ownership for his mistaken assumptions and failure to follow up. I worked at Biglaw for 8 years. I would not assume a relatively new jr associate could handle squat. It's not that they are dumb. It's that they don't know law firm conventions.

This would never hapen at Widener

157 = douchiest post of all time

If you're looking for a lesson in how to get laid off, read 157's post. Bring that attitude to work every day, and you will be gone in no time.

"We are a profession, not a service industry". "Doctors are more of a service industry . . they're bitches to insurance companies".

Um, actually, you're the bitch, bitch. Biglaw associates are smart people who would make much more money on average if they put their mind to something a little more risky and less glamorous, like starting a business, working at a trading desk or for that matter, going pre-med in college. But the problem is, you're too much of a pussy to be satisfied with the possibility of making real money. So you settle for a paycheck that will impress few people besides your parents, all so you can be safe.

Its always hilarious when lawyers compare themselves to other professions; they compare the average biglaw associate to an average member of the ENTIRE other profession. Does the average biglaw associate make more than the average doctor? Maybe. Does the average lawyer make more than the average doctor? Probably not. Would an apples-to-apples comparison (e.g. comparing the average biglaw attorney to the average surgeon at a large hospital) ever favor lawyers? Hell fucking no. The same goes for traders, bankers, golf instructors, massage therapists, real estate agents and just about any small business owner out there. Bitches.

436, that, and the fact that doctors actually provide something meaningful/useful to society.

ATL -- you just got taken. Everyone knows that people send tips to ATL, and forward copies of internal firm correspondence. Quinn wanted this sort of email to be published on ATL as a form of free advertising to its clients bragging about the firm's responsive attorneys who are always at work or willing to work. Quinn got exactly what it wanted -- ATL gave it the publicity that it was looking for, and with out charge. That's important, because law firms can't really afford paid advertising these days.

ATL -- you just got taken. Everyone knows that people send tips to ATL, and forward copies of internal firm correspondence. Quinn wanted this sort of email to be published on ATL as a form of free advertising to its clients bragging about the firm's responsive attorneys who are always at work or willing to work. Quinn got exactly what it wanted -- ATL gave it the publicity that it was looking for, and with out charge. That's important, because law firms can't really afford paid advertising these days.

438 - do you think clients are really that simple-minded? You think they're going to see a foolish email like this, and say "oh my, they work hard, lets hire them"?

Do you think Quinn also planned the typo ("CHECK YOU EMAIL") as a part of the scheme?

ENOUGH!

438, the last thing that Quinn wants is an email to be made public that suggests they somehow work harder or differently for "relatively new clients" whom they are "trying to impress." That is, in fact, very bad PR. It suggests that they take long-standing clients for granted. Not good.

Wow, this is a shitload of comments

The email shows the quality of writing I would expect from DLA corporate partners in NY

I agree. This isn't good press. Clients don't get off on partners humiliating junior associates. They generally just want results for a reasonable price.

The associate screwed up here. Elie is actually right for once -- you get paid a lot of money. More than almost anyone else anywhere. You should check your bberry constantly (and really, who doesn't?).

But I have to wonder -- who sends faxes these days? That part is a little strange. And once the pner didn't get a "will do" from the associate, he should have checked with him, done it himself, found someone else, etc.

And 3, yes, it would happen in Texas.

Is this how Quinn Emanuel puts up such high PPP? Have associates bill for sending faxes after the secretaries went home 2 and a half hours ago? Putting together such a fax and sending it takes a while--may end up costing the client $100.

Can anybody give me more information on this Urquhart guy? What's his reputation?

447, I have never known a firm with a serious litigation practice that does not have at least one night secretary.

Using an associate to fax a letter is just so demeaning. Even if you don't have a night secretary, how much more difficult is it to use the electronic fax from your computer to send the fax yourself?

Quinn has associates sending faxes because it is too cheap to have night secretaries or 24\7 word processing.

We got rid of night secretaries so there is no support staff of any sort after 5 p.m., and our word processing, depending on the day, leaves at 10 p.m. or midnight.

Also, there's like 15 paralegals for the 200+ lawyer LA office.

Quinn's PPP is made by ripping off the clients through under-utilization of staff. But hey, we HAVE to do that- secretaries DON'T BILL.

From: john quinn
To: All Personnel
Date: 9/25/09 12:55 PM
Subject: Permission to be discourteous (part of a continuing series), vol. 1, no. 1.

We have all been raised to be courteous in our dealings with our fellow man, and woman. I submit, however, that in the context of email, we should all be relieved of the obligation to send the routine "thanks" email to acknowledge a response to a routine request. I won't do the arithmetic here, but I think any of u can calculate the time cost of opening an email, reading it and deleting it. Its not worth it.

Henceforth all responses to emails shall be deemed to be properly acknowledged and appreciated. "Thanks" beyond that is unnecessary (and not appreciated).

John B. Quinn
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, LLP
865 South Figueroa Street, 10th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90017
Telephone: 213-443-3000
Facsimile: 213-443-3100
E-mail: johnquinn@quinnemanuel.com
Web: www.quinnemanuel.com

"There is nothing which is not the subject of debate. Amidst all this bustle tis not reason which carries the prize but eloquence, and no man needs ever despair of gaining prosyletites to the most extravagant hypothesis who has art enough to represent it in any favorable colors. The victory is not gained by the men at arms who manage the pike and sword, but by the trumpeters, drummers and musicians of the army."

--David Hume

451

450: I wish someone had responded "Thanks" to John Quinn's e-mail. He's such a pretentious ass.

Quinn also charges for all print-outs over two pages from any computer in the office. Not sure of the rate (probably 25 cents per) but still. Cost of business anyone? I can't believe clients don't call bull shit on this.

Quinn makes so much money because we have inferior staff support and end up doing work (copies, FAX, making a pdf, etc.) other litigators delegate to thier staff at other firms. The associates bill the clients for the "staff work" (also wrong) and Quinn turns a blind eye because it makes $$$$ from this cycle. Simple no?

I am not a junior attorney, but have spent many an hour doing my own secretarial/project assistant tasks because staff can't/won't. I don't work at Quinn.

453 you gotta be kidding me, I can't believe any client puts up with that, the firm I worked for stopped using client codes to print back in 2003 and we only billed for print jobs if it was a massive undertaking that needed to be done by the office services vendor.

I'm glad I never heard of this firm until a couple of years ago.

To all you losers whining about how it is borderline fraudulent to have an associate send a fax I say this. First, it takes literally two minutes to send a fax. It would take just as much time for the associate to print out the document, find the number, and give it to the secretary to do. Second, like you've never billed for something that a trained monkey could do.

450, Do you think John Quinn sees the irony in dispensing with a thank you reply as a time saver and then appending a long-ass quote to his email signature? The more I look the more this firm seems dysfunctional.

john quinn to 500!!!!

The partner's firm wide e-mail is very unprofessional and tacky and screams "third tier". Why would you even need to send such an e-mail at a good firm? He should have discussed this with the associate one on one and left it at that. The partner's poor judgment in sending out that e-mail could and should hurt business prospects for the firm.

'First, it takes literally two minutes to send a fax."

Yeah but at most firms associates bill in 6 minute increments, so it is still a 0.1 bill, which costs the client $50 assuming a $300/hour associate. That is ridiculous. Big firms need to start taking their clients into consideration. The salad days of Lehman/Bear/NL/BOA/ and other big banks being a bottomless pit of revenue are over.

The named partner who sent the e-mail out went to Fordham - definitely third tier behavior from a third tier grad.

four hundred sixty-firsty!

460 here, that should be $30, getting geared up to watch the GIANTS beat the Aints.

456,

You're right assuming the associate in question was still at the office. But obviously, as you know from the email at issue, the associate had left for the day.

Do you think the associate who had already left the office had the a printer and fax machine in his/her pocket? Was he/she carrying around his laptop?

And if you are correct, and it takes 2 minutes, Why didn't the partner ask his staff to do it or send the fax himself?

Quinn bills out associates to send faxes???

I've been accused of being a lazy, gold bricking, good-for-nothing dead beat ... by the chief of police of Malibu no less. The lesson is clear: stay out of fucking Malibu. It doesn't matter if there is a massive porn party, topless women on trampolines, or a $225K job waiting for you: stay away. If you enter, do so with an exit strategy and a plan to keep your soul in tact because the streets of Malibu are are full of child-sized potholes, reactionaries, Mel Gibson driving around like a lunatic, and other distractions to keep you there.

With respect to faxing/scanning, every biglaw associate has spent .3 reviewing/proofreading a letter and then walked it down to the fax machine while giving the letter a final check, dropped it in and punched in the number. It's not unusual or inefficient, and anyone who pretends that it is has never practiced.

What a load of crap 456.

If its all about being a 24/7 slave for the client's interests, then there would be 2nd shift staff to handle this sort of thing. The firm is NOT serving the client's interests if secretarial work is being done by attorneys after hours. 2 minutes hear, 2 minutes there...it adds up.

The broader point was that it would have taken two minutes to delegate the task to a secretary anyway.

That said, if I was said associate and sending the fax was my *only* task, I would have just done it and not billed for the two minutes--how do you describe that on a bill anyway? If (as is more likely the case) "fax a draft letter for review and comment" involved actually drafting, revising, or proofreading the letter first, then I would have just considered the last two minutes spent faxing it as part of the overall assignment, which was appropriately delegated to an attorney in the first place.

I would think that as attorneys you would all be less inclined to jump to conclusions on a bare set of facts without knowing all of the details that could make the situation different.

I am not sure if it is partners or associates who are worse. Is it the partners for sending patronizing emails about checking your blackberry and memos telling new associates to read the Wall Street Journal? Or is it associates who seem to not know these things already?

"Is it the partners for sending . . . memos telling new associates to read the Wall Street Journal"

What memo are you talking about???

One not sent to ATL, from a partner at a V20 firm. It takes you through all of the exciting section of the WSJ. For example:

"As with most newspapers, on the front page of the Journal, the "lead story" usually appears at the top of the first page, to the right."

Quinn associates: Please take note that you don't have to publicly humiliate yourself and devalue your resume by sending every assinine email from a partner to ATL.

473: at some point in time, you start hating your firm so much that it's worth it

For all you people who think the partner should've sent this to support staff . . did you ever think that maybe the *associate* could have delegated? All the client & partner care about is that the fax gets sent. They don't care how you do it, or that it might cost $30 in billable time. They just want to know that you're on top of the case and will ensure that these little tasks get handled when a clear and simple email is sent to you. Stop analyzing things and just get shit done. Jesus.

- Former biglaw associate, current biglaw client

475: you are an idiot. This isn't about analyzing jack. This is about Urquhart making assumptions and then trying to cover the fact that he made a mistake by dumping all over a new associate.

475: see 410.

475 - that's not what my comment was about. The 20 or so comments leading up to mine were about what I was commenting on. Idiot.

477: I went back and read 410. Its a pointless comment. Nobody is saying this particular partner isn't a jerk, or that he isn't responsible in the end. But go ask *any* partner (even a nice one) if its annoying to have to follow up with associates on minor tasks.

473: don't shoot the messenger