cool report Kash

-Slopes are Gay.

That's racist and should be moderated.

I don't think "sublimate" means what you think it means.

While the resistance argument against indiscriminate distribution/prescription of Tamiflu is a good one, hasn't the supply of Tamiflu become abundant pretty much across the globe since the Bird Flu hysteria started around five years ago, undermining the "hoarding/shortage" argument?

What does it mean if someone says "I hope you get Shafeefed?"

Definitely not a classy move by Ropes & Gray...

Um, if they paid for it -- who cares? The memo says it is for employees AND their families, which likely includes their snotty little kids. Brilliant move because it'll keep their associates from getting sick or having to stay home to take care of their sick little rugrats.

I guess I should return my bottle of Advil to make sure people who have much worse headaches than I do have access to it.

Tamiflu can only be obtained by prescription, so what, is Ropes going to require its employees and their family members to bring in a doctor's prescription before recieving Tamiflu? This makes no sense on the Firm's part. When did they hire a licensed pharmacist?

Although not a peer firm, R&G is taking well-advised precautions to ensure their staff and attorneys are healthy enough to come into work to receive that potential pink slip. After all, it is distasteful to terminate someone's employment while they are out sick.

The widespread use of antibiotics has two negative effects. Antibiotics use can produce antibiotic-resistant strains because the small numbers of bacteria that aren't killed by the antibiotic are the ones that survive and breed. In addition, antibiotics can kill the body's natural microbes that help fight off foreign bacteria.

Which of the following practices can help reduce these negative consequences and benefit patients?

A) Using antibiotics derived from natural products
B) Produce stronger antibiotics
C) Steadily increase dosage if the results begin to decline
D) Do not give the antibiotic to all people who are sick
E) Changing the antibiotics used every few weeks

Everyone should be outraged over this - little kids cannot get the vaccine because they are stockpiling it.

Tamiflu is an antiviral, not a vaccine or antibiotic.

This "outcry" against RG and Mystal's socialist mudslinging disturb me on several different levels.

For the past 6 months every person in the US has been bombarded with the dangers of swine flu and scared into getting vaccinated. But now when a law firm takes measures to protect its staff they get criticised... But lets see how things play out if people listen to Ellie: RG doesn't provide vaccinations for its employees, some of them fail to get vaccinated on their own and get sick. Those sick associates fail to meet their billing requirement and are fired. ATL writes a post on how RG fires associates for getting sick.

Secondly, universities across the country have provided mass immunizations for students regardless of whether or not they meet the suggestions Ellie listed above (under 2 yo, pregnant, Immunosuppression, etc.). Why no outcry there? oh yeah, college students live in close quarters, get little sleep, and are generally unhealthy. But wait, when was the last time a biglaw associate got a full night's sleep, ate something other then take out, saw the inside of a gym, and was not using every non-billing, waking moment to chain smoke and consume alcohol?

Lastly, What kind of country is this where a private entity gets blasted for using ITS OWN resources, to protect its other resources. Next Mystal will be criticising companies for taking all the "good health insurance" when there are unemployed minorities who need it more.

Another example of why 99% of lawyers are going to hell. Even if young children are at risk of dying from R&G hoarding, they dont seem to care. They only care about the billables.

PS: 8 you are an idiot. There is no shortage of advil. Your analogy is flawed...much like your life at R&G

Would people be outraged to learn that the companies that manufacture the vaccine have stockpiles reserved for their employees and families?

I'm not gray, I'm yellow.

Breaking news: business entity spends its own money to buy things for its employees.

This outrage must be stopped. Change we can believe in.

16 - Again this argument is flawed, as highlighting another wrong in no way can justifiy an unethical practice.

Seriously though 12, its clearly the fault of parents for not getting their children vaccinated when they were born. If they did, they'd never have to worry about it again. Serves them right for dragging their feet

14 - see 13. Tamiflu is an antiviral medication, not a vaccine. See also the theory of evolution for a better understanding of how viruses, like bacteria, evolve in response to indiscriminate use of drugs. The reason R&G is under fire while universities are not is because Tamiflu is not a vaccine, it's a prescription drug intended to be prescribed to people who are already sick. A vaccine is given to healthy people to prevent illness.

#14 proves that this site occasionally attracts the intelligent - as that was dead-on! This is not an actual story, but a media-hyped attempt to generate a story.

(wouldn't be surprised if R&G represented a party in a litigation against the Boston Globe)

15, where does it say there's a shortage of Tamiflu right now?

I'm not getting that shot, not after seeing the story about that cheerleader.

waaaahhhhh poor people aren't getting a highly demanded product for free because rich people are buying it waaaahhhh

This isn't hoarding. This is the Obama Administration's action plan.

It's unethical to take precautions?

Come on, is it unethical for me to use anti-bacterial soap? Ya know, that soap that only kills the weak bacteria and lets the resistant bacteria reproduce to kill little kids in their sleep?

Saying something is unethical is very different than simply disagreeing with it.

Morons.

Increased demand for Tamiflu from hoarding may help ensure a sufficient global supply:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/mar1606roche.html

Brilliant. Survival of the fittest, b*tches. Good for R&G looking out for its own.

How are you people lawyers?/ Tamiflu is not the vaccine, you idiots! They are not hoarding the vaccine, they are hoarding medication for the flue.

There are serious consequences for *everyone* if people who are not sick or who do not have the flue or who have only a mild case of the flu start taking the medication indiscriminately. (As for 5, no, the medication has not been disseminated so widely yet that companies have been giving it out 'just in case' before, so this is a real and current concern.)

I know you aren't doctors, but can't you read? Yes, I am talking to you, 8, 14, 16., 22.

And for 18 and 25, epic fail. No one is complaining that rich people have it and poor people can't get it for free. Read the fucking article, morons.

Finally, for 20 -- as for the vaccine, you don't just get it once and you are done. Flu vaccines must be given every year.

*sigh*

I know you all want to scream you agenda from the top of the hills, but you lose credibility when you fail to glean even the most basic information from the article on which you base your rant.

those swines

#24- this one's for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Ae4hw-lrM

21 and 30, where does it say that Ropes & Gray plans to give Tamiflu to people who are not sick or only mildly sick?

Dont you people see what is going on here. Everybody knows that swine flu was developed by the Obama administration to fix social security, medicare and medicaid. Why else do you think the vaccine distribution keeps on hitting these snafus.
Then the administration learns that Tamiflu keeps old and poor people from dying, so they have to get it off the market. In order to accmplish this without leaving fingerprints, it asks its largest donors to stockpile tamiflu for its young, affluent, employees and their families. Problem solved. Change we can believe in.

30, pretty sure your wrong about that. Louis Pasteur invented vaccination in the 1920s, which is the one shot method. I think you're thinking of innoculation, which requires yearly shots.

"Humane reason = Epic Fail"

???

Ropes did right.

@ everyone complaining. Do you seriously think that whatever pharma company that makes Tamiflu couldn't make more? I'm sure it could make enough to supply the entire world if it wanted. But I doubt it wants to because then it won't be as profitable. The scarcity of its goods is highly beneficial to its bottom line. Blame them, not R&G. And second 29--good for R&G. Take care of your people.

I fully expect every employee of Stirling Cooper to complete their assignments, regardless of health or inconvenience. Once, I showed up at work the day after being involved in a serious car accident.

R&G could have handled the "marketing" concerns simply: by donating a supply of the drug to a local children's hospital. Of course, they aren't our clients, so have to suffer through this public relations disturbance.

really 15? 99% of lawyers are going to hell?

You are so ignorant.

#15: who said there was a shortage of Tamiflu? Also I don't work at R&G, but definitely think they have absolutely every right to pay and receive as much Tamiflu as they want. In fact, if all firms, businesses, entities did this and it was an expected revenue stream for the pharma companies, they could anticipate that demand and adjust their supply accordingly (and probably make more money). Don't blame R&G. Blame the pharma companies that only bothering meeting the demand requirements of paying customers.

35-- funny story about Louis Pasteur. His wife didn't know anything about pasteurization, and he didn't know anything about homoginization, yet they made it work

call it what it is: lawyer hate

#30- you're the idiot. Who is arguing that R&G is giving this to people who don't need it? If the government wants to protect the high risk categories, let them tax you to pay for that. But if R&G wants to ensure that their employees have access to the flu shot, as well as their families, that is their business! And you're an idiot for thinking that is something bad.

14: c'mon.

Any attempt to make Biglaw associates into victims of any sort is incredible. With all the economic distress in this society.....

Look: if R and G does not buy up the antiviral, then its associates go out and buy it themselves. If they are unable to buy it, they are--in general--people who are in the healthiest years of their lives (their 20s and 30s), who have the financial resources to take care of themselves, should they get sick. Or to wait until after less fortunate members of society are taken care of.

Your comments about the unhealthy life style of BL associates, while surely true, are a hoot. Like potential Mafia initiates, they choose The Life for themselves. Benny Squint is going to complain because his capo requires him to get up at 4 AM and come downtown for a meeting? Without having the opportunity to throw some carrots and oranges in the juicer?

Moreover, BL associates--unlike very many in our society--have gold-plated health care. Or, at least, I think that's true. Not being a "peer firm" lawyer, I can't really attest. Maybe you can abruptly enlighten me.

So, tell me: has S & C terminated employee health care coverage? Is it requiring its employees to go to HMOs? Is Cravath terminating coverage for those of its employees who did not disclose all--and I do mean all--preexisting conditions? What penalties are there for going to an "out of network" physician?

44, many people are arguing that -- such as public health officials. And R&G itself said it is handing it out "just in case." Read much?

And again -- THIS IS NOT THE FLU SHOT. Jesus people. It is the antiviral med, which, when given out indiscriminately, may very well lessen its effectiveness for every single person. This is why it is out business.

It is not about the vaccine, it is not about a shortage. It is about destroying the effectiveness of the only drug we have to treat the flu. READ, people.

How did I go from member of the BC Law Review to selling amway products?

35 -- No, I am not wrong. My kids and I get the flu shot every year.

The flu shot is not a standard "vaccine," you see. It is an innoculation that you must get yearly. You are not protected each season unless you get the shot each season.

But anyway, as many of you seem to have entirely missed -- R&G is not handing out flu shots but Tamiflu.

Everybody take a deep breath and read slowly:

-Tamiflu is not a vaccine or an antibiotic.
-Use of Tamiflu does not promote resistant strains of influenza.
-It is not currently in short supply.
-Tamiflu does not cure or prevent the flu, but it can help reduce the severity of the flu once you get sick.
-But, it only works if you take it within 48 hours of the first symptoms.
-So, it is a good idea to have some on hand.
-Oh, and sublimate does not remotely mean what Elie thinks it means.

in other news, while R&G was planning to score some Tamiflu for its associates, Drinker Biddle was showing 22 associates the door.

You fuckers are all going to die and the R&G attorneys will live. Eat it.

I can't believe so many people are arguing here that R&G is great for getting flu shots for its employees.

This article has nothing to do with flu shots. Not one single thing.

49 = racist.

First we stock up on Tamiflu. Then we watch as H1N1 decimates Wilmer, DLA, etc. AmLaw 10 here we come!

49: from the Boston Globe --

"Providing the drug to healthy people - who may take it inappropriately, such as for a cold or mild case of the flu - could encourage the emergence of a strain of H1N1 resistant to Tamiflu just when the need for effective treatment is greatest, health officials said.

“We are very concerned about resistance,’’ said Bill Hall, a spokesman for the US Department of Health and Human Services. “Prescribing antivirals indiscriminately is not consistent with our guidance. Most people [who get H1N1] don’t become severely ill and don’t need to have antivirals.’’....

The US Health and Human Services Department and its public health arm, the CDC, recommend Tamiflu, which has been shown to reduce the severity and duration of symptoms, only for swine flu sufferers who are sick enough to be hospitalized and for those who are at high risk of serious complications, such as pregnant women and people with chronic medical conditions, Hall said.

Massachusetts health officials echoed their concerns.

“The widespread and injudicious use of these important medications poses a substantial public health risk,’’ said Dr. Lauren Smith, medical director of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health. “We don’t encourage the widespread prescribing of antibiotics for ‘just in case’ uses.’’"

methinks "subsume" is probably the right word there...

For Halloween, Elie got himself a "legal blogger" costume.* For one day this year, he can pretend that he (a) knows something about the law and (b) can write coherently about it.

*Definition of "sublimate" not included.

All of you moronic commenters who don't understand the first thing about flu vaccines, antivirals, antibiotics, relative risks, etc. are why this country is doomed. Get an education for god's sake.

11 - correct but irrelevant.

13, 21, 30, 48, 55 - the only commenters on here who actually have a clue.

If there is a shortage, R & G have agreed to only distribute the Tamiflu to partners. No problem.

58, your the one without a clue lol. if RG wants to hoard the flue cure, i say let them

60, the hoarding isn't a big deal. The manufacturer can just make more. But the company is having its doctors prescribe the medication to *healthy* employees for future use just in case the employees think they need it. The CDC and Mass Dept of Public Health are also clueless, I guess, because they also think it harmful to general public health.

Save the billing partners and rainmakers.

30 - I had to stop reading after you used the word "flue"

63 -- I know, my stupid mistake. Can't believe I wrote that. I caught myself using "flue" later in my post and corrected to flu. Didn't realize I had done it more than once.

I shouldn't type when I'm frustrated. :-)

49 is impressively stupid.

"Use of Tamiflu does not promote resistant strains of influenza."

Well, its a tough choice between "anonymous blog commenter" and "trained experts." But I'd love to hear the explanation for this, given that there are resistant strains of non-swine flu. How a drug that prevents baby flu viruses from escaping the infected cell doesn't produce selective pressure in favor of viruses that are able to escape is beyond me . . .

"It is not currently in short supply."

(1) Depends on what they gave. Children's Tamiflu is in short supply, and R&G said they were medicating employees' families as well.

(2) That it is not in short supply now, given that we aren't even in the flu season yet, does not mean it won't be in short supply in three months. In particular, They've been considering suggesting double doses if the strain is particularly virulent. And so wasting it on a lot of people who don't need it is a bad idea.

Not cool?

Looking out for the interests of your employees, seems very cool to me..

Keep listening to Obama..that's all you can do is listen.. as he hasn't made any change you can see.

45,

I'm not trying to make BL associates making 6 figures into victims. My point is that R&G should not be criticised for investing their money into their company in the way they see fit. Sure those associates could buy the drug on their own, but they could also buy water, coffee, bandages, aspirin, and meals after 7pm, but most firms still provide those for free. Should they be criticised for that too? (pls save the "coffee and aspirin aren't in short supply" argument, because it doesn't apply)

The fact that R&G was "stockpiling" Tamiflu and not flu vaccine as I had previously assumed does not change anything. I highly doubt R&G is enabling healthy people to take a prescription drug without a doctor's prescription (if they were they would be breaking the law and that would be a different issue), and if there is such a concern about resistance then doctors should stop prescribing the drug.

Last time I checked our taxpayer $ was going to the FDA and the CDA to look out for the general health of the country, not R&G. I think it is shameful that in time when firms and law schools are getting criticised for cutting meaningless perks like free forks, cups and soda, R&G is getting criticised for providing a benefit for its employees (which doesn't just include lawyers, but secretaries, receptionists too).

30/48 --

16 here. I'm well aware of the difference between TamiFlu and the vaccine. My question was whether the same outrage would apply if folks knew that the companies that manufacture the VACCINE (where there is a true shortage) had stockpiles for their employees and families.

Also, you get the shot every year because the flu strain in the vaccination changes year to year. If you miss a vaccination one year, you are likely still protected for some strains of the flu from your prior shots, but exposed to other strains of the flu.

For those that think you can just make more, although that is generally true, the process to make some pharmaceuticals so that it is ready for distribution is a long process. It doesn't happen overnight and thus there could be a shortage, even if it has not yet occurred.

I have no problems with R&G purchasing the drugs for their employees and families -- good for them. I think it is futile as Tamiflu is not effective for everyone and needs to be taken within 48 hours of the first symptoms -- good luck getting a diagnosis that quickly -- but it is a costly drug and they are looking out for their employees.

BTW, 67 =14

-14

It's Kirkland that needs Tamiflu: the Kirkland Chicago swine flu epidemic has reduced billables by 35% this year.

Balls

"Some doctors think that Ropes & Gray’s interest in keeping its employees showing up to work should be sublimated to, you know, the good of society"

Who cares if I don't know how to properly use the word "sublimated"? It sounded cool, alright?

The point is that Ropes & Gray is merely a haven for rich white guys. They are stockpiling medicine for the sole use of said rich white guys to the detriment of society. And when I say "society," I mean black people.

67: "I highly doubt R&G is enabling healthy people to take a prescription drug without a doctor's prescription."

For f's sake, read the ENTIRE article, will you?

"In an Oct. 13 e-mail to all personnel in Washington, Boston, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and the Silicon Valley, the firm’s head of human resources, Deborah Lemmerman, said Ropes & Gray arranged for physicians to prescribe Tamiflu for employees who want it and for their family members to “allow you to have it on hand should you need it.’’ An accompanying fact sheet tells employees that “more severe outbreaks can potentially result in a shortage of available medication.’’

Ropes & Gray said it had hired New York-based Affiliated Physicians to run the program, meet with employees in 15-minute slots at the firm’s offices, write the prescriptions, and order the medication, which is then mailed to employees’ homes. Employees also had to complete a medical questionnaire. Employees, or their insurance, must pay the $100 to $200 cost of the Tamiflu, the company said, adding that it expects about 5 percent of employees to obtain the medication.

“As with any medication, Tamiflu carries risks and, for that reason, we urge you to discuss these risks with the prescribing physician,’’ the e-mail told Ropes & Gray personnel. The medication can have serious side effects, doctors said, such as nausea and vomiting, and is most effective when taken one to two days after flu symptoms are diagnosed.

The company’s fact sheet told employees to “only take it when you begin to exhibit flu symptoms.’’

Are we going to have to read about stuff like this every time a company tries to be proactive about employee health? Or is the outrage simply because it is a law firm?

I can handle the fact that so many of you don't know jack about the flu, vaccines, and antivirals. What bugs is that those who seem to know the least are so smug about their misinformation.

Let me give some advice: humble dumbass > cocky dumbass (you can do something about the cockyness; I fear you're stuck being a dumbass). Everyone loves to watch a cocky dumbass fail. When everyone around you wants you to fail your future is not bright.

i'm confused. how can you get a prescription if you don't yet have the flu??? isn't that the whole point of a "prescription" -- to PRESCRIBE it when you NEED it? otherwise, you might as well make it OTC! or are we just adding an additional step in getting the medicine?

My company offers a fitness center for all employees. This is obvious and blatent discrimation against those who cannot afford a health center. Under our new socialist regime, this health center should be the "peoples health center" and by peoples I mean non-white unemployed people who have time to work out

R&G did not "hand out" or stockpile Tami-flu. But they did make it easier for any of their employees ( and family members) to get a script if they want it, and if they want to pay for it. Good for them.

Yeah, don't take antivirals or antibiotics when you aren't actually ill. Real controversial.

I'm pretty opposed to the idea of anything that might help H1N1 gain virulence. It's already contagious as all hell; the last thing it needs is something that makes it more likely to be lethal. Which is exactly what a screwed up amatuer "preventative" course of antivirals is.

70,

It might not be Tamiful but everyone in the Chicago office of Kirkland is getting a free bottle of Purell hand sanitizer next week!

Wooo!

"
As part of the Firm's commitment to promoting good health, a complimentary bottle of Purell hand sanitizer will be distributed to Chicago office personnel. Hand sanitizers provide a convenient way to help keep hands clean when you have limited access to soap and water (i.e., at your desk, on the train, in a store, etc.).

General Services will provide you with a bottle of Purell during the week of November 2. This is a one-time distribution with the Firm providing one bottle per person.

Additional information (also in K&EConnect) is attached for your reference.

Please contact the Benefit Services Department at x. 62-2997 if you have any questions or comments.

Thank you.
"

RG isn't providing the drug free to anyone who wants it. They're providing a free consultation with a doctor and an opportunity to buy some of the drug - it's costly so it's not like everyone (or even most) employees will do it.

81, what is the co-pay (with at least normal RG insurance) for it?

i.e. if you are a RG attorney and you meet with the doc what is your out of pocket once all is said and done and you have some tamiflu sitting around.

76 - Exactly my question. I think I should get some Fentanyl and OxyContin scripts just in case.

Of course "sublimate" in one form means passing directly from a solid to gaseous state, a subject I'd think Elie knows much about

Could it be that fear of am H1N1 pandemic has created an emotionally charged reaction to R&G optional health care contingency plan to have a doctor prescribe the anti-viral drug for employees?

What? No quote from Harry Rubin?

I was one of the employees who participated in the R&G Tamilflu program. There was an interview with a doctor, who did a good job explaining under what circumstances to take the drug. In sum, it was explained that you will know if you have the flu because it will hit you hard and you will feel like you are very seriously ill. Only then should you take the drug. Not for a simple cold. And on the other hand, if you wait a few days after the onset of symptoms, which would likely be the case if you did not have it on hand and you had to make an appointment, then it would probably be ineffective. So the program seems very sound and well justified, and the concerns about creating immunity of the virus from the drug by casual use are not very well founded.

Tamiflu is an oral antiviral medication which is used to lessen symptoms of influenza (seasonal flu AND H1N1 flu). It was created to lessen flu symptoms long before H1N1 (swine flu) appeared. I've used it with some success when I had the normal seasonal flu. To have any effect, it must be taken quickly: within 6 - 24 hours of the onset of symptoms. A symptomatic person needs quick access to this drug and one's own doctor is not always available over the weekend.

Some firms, mine included, have thankfully opted to allow employees (attorneys, staff and their families) at the firm's cost, to see a physician (brought into the firm's office for this purpose) to obtain a prescription for Tamiflu. It is up to the employee to obtain the Tamiflu when or if it is needed. This process simply allows the employee, if they so desire, to quickly obtain Tamiflu when or if symptoms of flu develop. No hoarding. Simply a business being proactive in protecting the well-being of its people, thank you very much.