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I suppose that I should know the answer to this, but is the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law of Yeshiva University accredited by the American Bar Association and a member in good standing of the Association of American Law Schools?

If my law school were about to make a mockery of the 150+K I was about to spend/ am spending to enter a super saturated field where I'm already going to have claw my way to an open position, I'd set the place on fire.

To clarify Kash:

Cardozo permits students to bring whatever food they wish, kosher and non-kosher, onto the premises. What Dave Johnston was referring to was the school policy not to spend school money on non-kosher food. After all, all school money for student events come from Yeshiva University, an Orthodox Jewish Institution.

Kash,

You make me feel like a natural camel.

ShaFeef

Apparently, professors at the meeting were more receptive to the idea of a show. This is because 1) professors are attention whores and 2) they already have jobs, so who gives a shit

5, silly me, I thought school money for student events come from the tuition paid by Cardozo students, who are not all Orthodox Jews.

what if the show were going to highlight a school with an already-established reputation, like Harvard? That would certainly hold viewer's attention better, and I don't think it would hurt the students like it would at Cardozo. comments?

#3. Cardozo is ranked #49 and has the 3rd highest bar passage rate in NY (which is higher than Cornell and Fordham).

to further clarify 5, the school forces student groups to pay for crappy overpriced food, and will not reimburse groups who purchase kosher food that doesn't come from their approved vendor. in that regard, the food policy is backwards, unpleasant, and, with all due respect, too jewy

9, yeah, but even Harvard isn't that starved for attention

To 8:

Your response seems logical and is what I thought, but is not the case. All money from Student Events apparently comes from main university according to the Cardozo SBA.

To 8:

Your response seems logical and is what I thought, but is not the case. All money from Student Events apparently comes from the main university according to the Cardozo SBA.

13/14- that's with the exception of the student fee at Cardozo, which comes directly from dozo students and goes to the SBA

To 11:

I am unsure if the school allows reimbursement for students who purchase kosher food outside of the school, but they definitely do permit reimbursement for kosher drinks and candy, as I have received reimbursement for those items.

Additionally, can you not get the Office of Student Events to approve another Kosher Restaurant outside their list? NYC is Jew City as Anti-Semites like to say, so it really is not difficult to find a cheap Kosher place to provide food -- how about Kosher Delight for example?

-5 and 13

5,
I thought what's-his-face wanted to pay for the non-kosher pizza, which means it isn't really about school money being spent. I thought it was about whether the school could have a "school sanctioned event" that served nonkosher.

To further 15, even if the checks are cut and accounting is processed by the main university, the money raised for student activities comes from Cardozo students' tuition/fees, not Yeshiva.

Diller's probably just afraid of MTV mocking him with a Kermit the Frog voice like we used to do up at Fordham when he was there...

To 17: You are correct. My point, however, was that you could buy cheap kosher food. Cardozo just has deals with some of the worst, and rather expensive, Kosher restaurants in the city.

-5, 13, and 16

I pounded a Cardozo chick in the ass once before a mock trial competition. The only bad thing about it was she was not very well groomed.

schlomo

If it is important to you to go to a law school that sponsors non-kosher food at student events, there are 200+ law schools to choose from.

For the people out there who want a law school in which the events are kosher, there is one (1) option. Is that too much for them to ask?

And to answer #3:

Cardozo is an online school not eligible for ABA accreditation. However, it is accredited by the State Bar of New York, so rising 2L's take the 'baby bar' and are then eligible to keep studying if they pass; upon graduation, they can sit for the NY bar exam and may be able to eventually get into other jurisdictions by reciprocity.

(those of you who don't get the joke, please don't make a fool of yourself. I'm looking at you, #10).

20

They will reimburse you for pre-packaged goods (like sodas, candy bars, however). But if you were to go to place that prepares kosher food, buy it and bring it for an event, you can't be reimbursed. Having personally wrangled with special events and business affairs, I can tell you they are unreasonable on this point.

You just know there's going to be some law school that will take up MTV (or other network) on an offer of a reality show based on law school.

Maybe BLS, I heard its dean is not above selling out to the highest bidder.

22, I think the point is that it's not important. Plus, most schools in NYC do make kosher food available for those that want it (or are compelled by their God/bogeyman to eat it).

The bigger struggle is the fact that these little inconveniences and quirks sort of conflict with the notion that Cardozo is a secular place, and truthfully I think if the school dropped these rules, itd be a destination for more top applicants.

22, Cardozo is free to advertise itself as an Orthodox Jewish law school instead of a secular school. They don't.

25,

I'm having trouble squaring two things you said:

1) It's not important.

2) It's deterring 'top applicants.'

You're correct on point #1, which is why you're incorrect on point #2. Cardozo is an up-and-coming school, and from what I understand, it has made a lot of headway towards attracting 'top applicants' by throwing scholarship money at them. No one is going to turn down thousands of dollars in scholarship money because they want the free pizza at their events to have pepperoni (and if they do, then they obviously aren't that bright anyway).

27 here, disregard that I suck cocks

26,

From what I understand (and someone from Cardozo feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), Orthodox Jews are a very small minority of students at Cardozo, and this kosher policy is one of the very few things that distinguishes the school from every other law school. In almost every important way, Cardozo *is* a secular law school. Charactarizing it as an "Orthodox Jewish Law School" seems a little strong, no?

Look, I'm just a fan of heterogeneity. I don't think that all law schools should be identical, so if there's one out there that's better for Mormons, another better for Orthodox Jews, etc.... that's not necessarily a bad thing.

8,12 Harvard would not let The Paper Chase be filmed there in the early 70s.

To 26:

Just because it does not permit school funding to go to nonkosher food does not make the school nonsecular. Secular means that the student body is diverse and not only Jewish, which it for the YU undergrad, i.e. YU undergrad is not secular.

27 (the real one), let me clarify. What I meant was that the school's kosher requirements, religious holiday scheduling, library closures on Fridays and Saturdays are not important in that I don't see why the school can't just do away with these things and be done with it. Let people observe in their own way, make accomodations available, but there's no need to enforce Jewish laws on campus.

As to the second point, there are definitely people who have turned down going to Cardozo to go to Brooklyn because they don't want to go to a Jewish school. Its not that they have a problem with the tribe so much as they feel as if the school gears itself towards Jews and as such is really a place for, well, Jews.

Anyone who goes to BLS over Cardozo because of a few stupid policies is an idiot.

Good to know that Dean Diller is keeping Cardozo classy. I'm pleased.

anyone who thinks there's a real difference in job prospects or quality between Dozo and Brooklyn is an even bigger idiot, and anyone who pays more in tuition for the difference of fitteen US News spots is a god-tier idiot

The only reason to go to BLS over Cardozo is if you want to work for the Kings County DA.

Cardozo happens to have a lot more free food at events than most law schools. Personally, I'd take free crappy pizza over no pizza any day.

Um 35- you're comment is assisine. 15 spots and the distinction between going to a Tier 1 vs a Tier 2 school is obviously a huge deal. There is a conceivably big difference between a) student quality b) professor quality c) prestige and d) success of job prospects at the two schools (in a non-recession job market of course.) Nowadays even the T 10s are screwed.

ummm. . .

WHO WANTS TO WATCH A TV SHOW ABOUT A BUNCH OF DORKY LAW STUDENTS FREAKING OUT ABOUT FINALS AND CLASS RANK AND COMPETING WITH OTHER DORKS FOR CLASS RANK.

Worst show Idea ever. I want to watch strippers fight for 80's rocker love instead.

Yeah, why would you pay more and get less scholarship just to go to Cardozo over BLS?

35 = BK Law Student who is trying to defend an institution that enrolls almost 500 students compared to Cardozo's 300. Less enrollment means easier time finding a job for that school's students.

Cardozo is 49 in a three way tie. When the school dips back to 51 this year, killself

Who cares about kosher/non-kosher food at Cardozo? Really people, is food that big of a deal to bitch about? And regarding the library's hours- who actually studies on a Friday night? And even if you do, are you really going to be so lame as to be seen in public doing so? Saturday, that's a different story, but NYC has public libraries and lots of starbucks perfect for studying. Cardozo also has agreements with other NY/NJ law schools where students can use their libraries during the semester.

Damn. I would've totally watched this show. Would've been horrible publicity for Cardozo, though, so smart move on their part.

Non BLS student here. Harvard and NYU have classes over 450. They must not have an easy time finding jobs for their students.

44 - self proclaimed loser.

Anyone who would watch a tv show on law students needs to get a life.

41, I seriously doubt being top half at BK puts you at any less advantage than being top half at Dozo. Either way, you're equally fucked

38, there's is absolutely no way you could point a conceivable difference between placement for similarly ranked students at Dozo and Brooklyn. The rules are the same: Biglaw for Top 15%, Government/Small Firm for Top 25% and the black pit for the rest

Well, yes, 45... but that's not really the comparison. Compare Harvard and Yale, though - Yale has fewer students, and its students will end up with much better jobs on average.

It's not like anyone who gets into NYU is even going to consider Cardozo or BLS. Gotta compare like schools.

48- why do you equate government with small firm work? Many govt programs are very prestigious to get into (especially federal gov't). Really not everyone thinks working for BigLaw is the epitome of a successful life.

49 - it really doesnt hold in any case. If Dozo only admitted 100 students, ten-fifteen would get biglaw and the rest would be SOL

45 -- Harvard and NYU are T5, so have no problem placing their students. Cardozo and BLS are in a different league, so the less enrollments mean more prestigious employment opportunities for Cardozo graduates, as well AS employment opportunities in general.

(My comment assumes a non-recessionary environment.)

-41

Cardozo was an excellent jurist. He must turn in his grave at the thought of his name being associated with this fifth-tier "institution."

52 = 1L. You'd be surprised how meaningless the T1/T2 distinction is. The students are not magically better off just because they moved from 53 to 49, and certainly not enough to actually think they place any better than other NY TTTs

-FORDHAM SECURE

where are PE and JaKe to weigh in on this?

19: or he doesn't want to show up on TV covered in chalk dust like he always seemed to be while teaching Civ Pro.

"Many govt programs are very prestigious to get into"

And therefore beyond the reach of lowly Dozo students

delete comment 11 - it's anti-Semitic and doesn't belong on this site

Delete 58, it promotes stereotypes about Jews controlling the media.

Any respectable law school would be a fool to open their doors to the mockery that happens on the cutting room floor.

Come on 58, a little anti-semitism never hurt anyone. Oh, wait.

57- um I'm pretty sure my very employment just negated your whole comment. Nice try laoche!

62, I think that 57's comment goes to the majority of the class, not just top performers. I might just be flattering you.

58 -

11 said "with all due respect" when s/he made his inflammatory remark, that caveat always absolves one of all guilt. See also "sorry if I offend anyone," "no disrespect to anybody," or "just my opinion; you may disagree."

64 - don't count out "this is totally racist, but..."

to further clarify 58, the school forces student groups to pay for crappy overpriced food, and will not reimburse groups who purchase kosher food that doesn't come from their approved vendor. in that regard, the food policy is backwards, unpleasant, and, with all due respect, too jewy

i'll say it again, WHY IS FOOD SUCH A F%^&*() BIG DEAL!? It's just food! Either you people are starving or have eating disorders. seriously, who gives a sh&*?

67 - ask the school

68-missed my point completely retard. I'm asking why people make such a big deal out of the school's food policy. Is eating kosher pizza such a huge deal that grown adutls have to bitch and moan about it. Really, either shut up or eat something else. Jesus!

69 - have you ever gone as far as decided want to do more look like?

69, I don't know. Apparently you're willing to completely bitch out people over something as miniscule as disagreeing with a food policy. Just promise me you won't bulldoze my house since I disgree with you.

71 = not so subtle Palestine troll

The funny thing is that at Fordham, the pizza situation was reversed. For as not-great as the kosher pizza was, that Ray Bari shit was far worse. Everyone went for the kosher pizza because it was actually the best stuff available.

When did Diller leave? I couldn't stand the guy. His admin law class was unbearable and if you ever went up to talk to him his shirts were always stained with food.

71 = lover of suicide bombers' proud families

All the people saying Cardozo is better than Brooklyn are morons and Cardozo students. To whatever extent Cardozo is "better" than Brooklyn, is nullified by the fact that Brooklyn is older and bigger and has more established alumni out there in the real world. No real employer gives half a shit that Cardozo is ranked higher than Brooklyn. They're the same.

Here's a summary of reality regarding NY schools and the job market, and sorry if this hurts Cardozo students-

Tier 1-

Columbia and NYU in no particular order.

Tier 2-

Fordham

Tier 3-

Every other NY school except CUNY and Touro

Tier 4-

Cuny and Touro

If you want to avoid the Jews at 'Dozo, go to Brooklyn. Cuz there are no Jews in Brooklyn.

75= angry bottom half Fordham 2L with no call backs, etc., trying to suck the pinky toes of Columbia/nyu

more and more cardozo is compared to fordham, not brooklyn. dozo is leaving bls behind, in the dust, and possibly will rise higher than fordham in the next 5 or so years.

77 = deluded Cardozo student.

Being compared to Fordham is nothing to aspire to, which means your school is crap.

Nobody cares whether Cardozo is better than Brooklyn. The only thing matters is that it isn't NYU or Columbia.

> dozo is leaving bls behind, in the dust, and possibly will rise higher than fordham in the next 5 or so years.

That's what they've been saying for, oh, at least 15 years now. Hope springs eternal.

Cardozo will never pass Fordham in the rankings unless it can win the cross-admit battle. When I was being recruited by Cardozo, the former Dean was bragging that they enrolled 10 people who chose the school over Fordham. Nevermind that 400 people who were admitted to both went to Fordham.

Interesting how yesterday's twitter is reclassified today as "rumors." Nice spin, but not such a nice thing to do to your already stressed out, anxious, neurotic law student body.

I don't know what everybody is hating on Cardozo for.
They are a great school. I think it would do some good for all the other law schools to see how its really done. If they need to learn via MTV so be it.

I graduated in 2008 and even though I'm not employed yet Cardozo says that most of my fellow classmates are:
"Cardozo graduates are very successful in finding employment in their practice areas of interest, both in the private and public sectors. "

Class of 2008 Employment Statistics:
http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContentDisplay.aspx?ccmd=ContentDisplay&ucmd=UserDisplay&userid=10340&contentid=10310

The overall employment rate for 2008 graduates 9 months after graduation is 94.3%!

The numbers don't lie.

I feel sorry for all the students at Cardozo who thought they were going to a real school and getting a real degree, only to find out that Cardozo Law School was a television stage and their entire school career was just a scripted farce.

It's pretty pathetic that no matter how old some people get they still resort to trying to pick apart others to make themselves feel superior. Don't you people have anything else to do with yourselves except spew nonsense that has no basis in the truth?

It's pretty pathetic that no matter how old some people get they still resort to trying to pick apart others to make themselves feel superior. Don't you people have anything else to do with yourselves instead of spewing nonsense that has no basis in the truth?

I feel sorry for all the kids on this thread fighting over BLS v. Jew school. The issue of this post is the patheticess of a reality tv show about law students. Shoot me in the face.

85,

When can I do that?

Even though they were rejected by Cardozo, I'm sure BLS will be happy to accept MTV. And for MTV purposes, isn't Brooklyn way hipper than Manhattan anyway? Hipster Law School: The Series.