Nationwide Salary Cut Watch: Williams Mullen
Williams Mullen, the large and prominent Virginia-based law firm, announced yesterday that it will be cutting associate salaries by 7.5 percent, effective in January 2010. The new starting salary for associates will be $117,000 (in all offices other than D.C.).
A firm spokesperson described this as “a business decision,” made to remain competitive in a rapidly changing market. She added that the Williams Mullen cut was comparable to steps taken by similar firms, including Hunton & Williams and McGuire Woods (which cut starting salaries for associates by 10 percent). [FN1]
“Our clients are saying, ‘You better do this,’” the Williams Mullen spokesperson said. “This is a market adjustment just like any other adjustment, just like any other business adjusting the cost of its product.” If the firm were to keep associate salaries the same in this economic environment, “our clients would look at us and say, ‘You’re no longer competitive.” She added that equity partners would also see a decline in their incomes due to market realities.
As for whether this cut might be revisited at a later date, the spokesperson noted that matching the market goes both ways. “You can adjust down, and you can adjust up,” she said. “When things start to get better, we’ll look at ways to adjust accordingly.”
[FN1] UPDATE: A point of clarification about McGuireWoods: although the firm did cut starting salaries, incoming associates at the firm are still earning more than $117,000. New hires are making $144,000 in Northern Virginia, D.C., Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York, while new hires in Richmond, Charlotte and Atlanta are making $130,500.
Earlier: Prior coverage of associate pay cuts
(115) Comments
Comments
YEaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
In Soviet Russia, salary cuts YOU!
Anyone with a law degree who accepts a paltry salary of $117,000 is:
1) nescient;
2) a graduate of a non-preeminent, non-peer law firm.
Either way, I thankfully do not have to interact with these hoi polloi thanks to my new gated community, membership at the Yale Club, and tinted car windows that shield me from penurious wretches.
Clients insisted associates get paid less? riiiiiiight.
STFU 3. deuche.
Can we get an open thread about how busy associates are?
As a deferred 09 I am curious about whether i'll be starting in Jan.
I can believe that a client would tell a firm to lower its billing rates, but I don't believe that any client would care what the associates are being paid. Unless Williams Mullen cut billing rates in the same proportion as they cut salaries there is a serious logical flaw in the firm's statement.
Before one of the unamusing 'Comments Editors' corrects my post for a typo, let me remind you cogs of something:
I edit a preeminent peer law review; you edit comments on a legal tabloid.
In order to combat rising health care costs, I have insisted that my doctor's salary be reduced.
Our clients are saying "you better do this"?
What do clients care about how firms pay associates? All they care about is their bills. Do clients care about how much secretaries, copiers and paralegals make?
What an idiot.
I really, really hate it when firms cut salaries and blame it on clients' wishes. Clients couldn't care less about what firms do with the money once they get it as long as they're getting top-notch service. Clients care about two things: 1) service, and 2) the price paid for said service. They want a lot of #1 with a low #2.
Partners, on the other hand, care about getting paid. Associate salaries affect that. I don't care if partners cut salaries because partners want to keep their partnership ranks well lubed, so to speak. If partners get disgruntled, they can frequently take their books of business elsewhere.
But, please . . . just call a spade a spade, will you?
Client to WM partner: "Hey Bill. Listen, I have no problem paying this $300,000 invoice. It just pisses me off that you haven't cut the salary of those junior associates who are just starting out in life and have invested $200k and 3 years of their lives for their legal educations. I'd much prefer you kept more of that $300,000 for yourself."
WM Partner: "No problem. My partners and I will be happy to slash associate pay and keep more for ourselves, if that's what you really want."
I told my doctor to cut his receptionist's salary, otherwise I would find some other doctor with more competitive receptionist salaries.
Yeah right. I am a firm client, upset about the legal bills I am getting from the firm. I call up firm managing partner and demand that the associates get their salaries lowered, to reduce my bills. Keep billing rates the same, keep the case staffed the same, but lower the salaries of the people working on the case.
That doesn't reduce my next bill by one fucking cent. It does however affect the work product being produced on my case. What a bunch of liars.
3- exactly how do you "graduate" from a non-preeminent, non-peer law firm?
Sometimes in-house counsel get cranky if they're making less than junior associates. That said, the memo is TTT.
In what other industries do customers/clients really care more about the product/service providers input costs than the cost of the finished product/service?
In what other industries do customers/clients really care more about the product/service providers input costs than the cost of the finished product/service?
So Jake, you are in fact a law student and not a lawyer? Or is your use of the present tense -- "I edit a preeminent peer law review" -- just another typo? Lame character.
WILLIAMS MULLEN: We're calling you out. We need to see "Before" and "After" retail rate charts or we're calling b.s. on your opportunistic wage cramdown.
Anything in the memo about cutting billing rates (i.e. something clients actually care about)?
H&W hasn't cut salaries.
11 here,
I take back some of what I said. Now that I thought for a second, I can see why clients care about how much associates get paid. Big firm associate salaries in large part dictate the starting salaries of in-house counsel for large companies. This is the only real reason they'd care.
However, if a corporate client ever told a law firm, "You better do this," in reference to associate salary reductions, I could see a valid antitrust claim.
Perhaps we should stop thinking about §90 and start thinking about §2 . . .
7 has no idea what he is talking about. When I saw the price for cereal the other day, I insisted that I speak with the supermarket manager and then demanded that employees be paid less.
The firm spokesperson is obviously an inarticulate idiot. But the firm must be lowering its billing rates, or else the clients who read this news and don't see lower bills will be demanding to know why the lower overhead isn't being passed on to clients.
Mission Accomplished
24 -- right on. Wgen i bought my lexus, i told them to cut salaries of their line workers by 10%. they did it.
Didn't ya'll get the memo? The DOW is UP!
Jake, making $117,000 might be sad, but it's surely not a sign of penury. By definition.
27:
My strategy likely failed because I didn't use the magic words (i.e. "you better do this").
24
Ha!
Jake's been exposed. And this time it wasn't just in front of the secret society right before they gang raped him.
I see where Lat is going with this story. If we, the readers of ATL, are Lat's customers he is asking us to tell him to fire Elie.
OH NO JAKE, please tell me didn't out yourself as (gasp) a LAW STUDENT! Your shtick is now over. OVER. It makes no sense, and for an "editor" (most useless law students of the lot, FYI), you make an astonishing number of simple, elementary, grammatical errors.
JaKe = Hoi Polloi!!!!! And he is almost assuredly unemployed! HAHAHAHAHAHA
Although not a peer firm, WM is the latest adopter of my hybrid tough love model and for that, they merit some praise. These associates who will now have to get by on a paltry $117K salary will be very motivated in the upcoming months when firms will start revoking offers and extending deferrals indefinitely. Bravo WM management. You have managed to turn Commissar Obama's failure into a bright spot.
When my weed dealer quoted me a price for his purple haze, I immediately demanded that he cut the wages for his growers.
JaKe,
I would like to deposit the semen of my camel in your mouth and then pleasure myself with your anus. Ok? yes. Ok?
ShaFeef
What about Sullivan & Worcester in Boston? AmLaw 200 firm, ~ 200 lawyers, cut first-year salaries to $125,000 in April and offer rate for 2009 summers was ~40%. Also rescinded offers to incoming associates in March. Plus, their legal recruiting manager and hiring partner are awkward, bumbling fools when it came to the summer program and hiring decisions.
Sullivan & Worcester proves that medium-ish Boston firms can also be horrible to their associates and summers, as well.
I agree with 11.
8. Your law review called, they'd like you to spend less time editing 'comments on a legal tabloid'.
True story. Williams Mullen INCREASED rates across the board this past year.
Breaking legal develoment- Philly Acorn video released. And this is ATL-worthy for the brilliant work-around on the wiretapping law. Elie, I know this will hurt you to read but you really should:
Because of Pennsylvania wiretapping laws they need to blank out the audio... However they could ask permission from Mrs. Russell to "Clear up any misconceptions" about what happened and allow the audio to be played. If Mrs. Russell/ Acorn doesn't allow it she and Acorn looks bad.
http://biggovernment.com/2009/10/21/acorn-video-prostitution-scandal-in-philadelphia-pa-part-i/#
This post is addressed to all of the wretches who fallaciously believe that one cannot both be a law student at a preeminent peer law school and an associate at a preeminent peer law firm:
First, my bio (http://abovethelaw.com/profile/JaKe%20Emeritus) has stated that I am a law student since I created this account.
Second, my summer stint at my father's preeminent peer law firm was uncannily successful; they wanted me to work 20 hours a week while I complete my degree because my services were rendered invaluable.
The fact that you think an individual is incapable of doing both proves either your lethargy or benightedness--but probably both.
http://twitter.com/CardozoLaw
Students say hell no to reality show
40: OH MY GOD! Two conservative idiots dressed up like prostitutes and talked to some part-time volunteer at ACORN about getting a mortgage! And the volunteer didn't immediately call the cops! ACORN as a whole must be corrupt! The Democrats must all be jailed! The country is going to hell in a handbasket!
WM is full of crap. Clients don't give a damn what associates are paid PER SE, anymore than i care about what Burger King cashiers make when i buy a hamburger. Do you actually think that GCs have time to micromanage every freakin law firm's pay policies? Do they look at benefits too? # vacation days? All they care about is their BILL and the final work product, regardless of whether Mr. Mullen does the Lexis search or some paralegal.
This is just cover for the partners -- an excuse to cut salaries. Cutting salaries is fine, but be man about it -- don't pretend that the GC of Delta called WM and told them to cut associate salaries.
HAHAHA JaKe you couldn't even land an offer after the summer at daddy's firm?!?!?! Pathetic! Only saps stay on to keep working during the school year because they are too scared of not getting a job!
You suck at life, and please stop referring to your ATL profile, which nobody ever reads. You are an ass. Better find a new shtick. Seriously.
43--whats corrupt is that an entity staffed by law-flouting imbeciles rakes in millions of taxpayer money, douche.
No one has ever heard of Williams Mullen. This is not news.
Never waste a good crisis....
Lower costs while maintaining (or raising) associate hourly rates.
Hmm, I wonder how that might affect the business when those associates have a chance to jump...
JaKe,
Are the rumors about you and this person Shafeef true?
We demand answers.
Guest(s)
"don't pretend that the GC of Delta called WM and told them to cut associate salaries. "
Maybe the GC of Delta should ask why when Richmond, VA has one of the most deflated commercial real estate markets in the country that the law firm she uses decides that they need to be build a new building downtown.
For whatever it may be worth re: matching, Latham announced last week that it would unfreeze salaries resulting in a double raise to all associates as of January 1. Firms cutting now are a bit late to the game if Latham of all firms is going back to normal.
Jake = Dumbshit
If you're still a law student, then you're nothing more than a part-time law clerk at your daddy's law firm (which obviously is not preeminent and peer, otherwise it would have an anti-nepotism policy). That means you are NOT an "associate" at the law firm, dumbass.
41 = EPIC FAILURE IN BOTH LIFE AND THE INTERNET.
Dear Above the Law:
You cannot continue to hide the 600 pound walrus in the corner. PLEASE AIR YOUR OWN DIRTY LAUNDRY FULLY AND COMPLETELY BEFORE THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS, YOU HYPOCRITICALIST FREAKS!!!
Very truly yours,
Dedicated reader
51: is that true? Memo?
This post is addressed to Commenter #52:
And yet witness two facts:
1) I am currently a law student at a preeminent peer law firm;
2) I am currently an associate at my father's preeminent peer law firm.
Just because you nor those with whom you associate have never been placed on partner track while in law school does not mean that those who work hard (i.e., me) cannot.
Jake Emeritus: Please shut the fuck up. No one cares.
Everyone else: Please ignore Jake Emeritus. His shtick has become stale and annoying.
56: have you taken the bar yet?
First time commenter, semi-frequent reader of comments. Just saying that the bum rap which JaKe and PE get are not deserved.
You have a silent majority behind you!
A lot of hate towards Jake today. Guess he done his job well!
Williams and Mullen is RAISING rates while LOWERING salaries, and they're claiming it was the clients' idea?
What a shithole.
More excellent grammar Jake -- "my services were rendered invaluable" -- you poser/loser
43: Don't forget about embezzling, registering "Donald Duck" to vote and numerous other violations of election law.
"“Our clients are saying, ‘You better do this,’” she said. “This is a market adjustment just like any other adjustment, just like any other business adjusting the cost of its product.” If the firm were to keep associate salaries the same in this economic environment, “our clients would look at us and say, ‘You’re no longer competitive.” She added that equity partners would also see a decline in their incomes due to market realities."
Clients want lower billing rates. That is all. All the partners need to do is adjust their expectations about profits per partner. That's all.
Many of you young folks made a mistake in selecting the legal profession as a career. Let me highlight your mistake. Today, I received two bills, one from my vet and the other from my mechanic. My 5 month-old afghan hound, Simeon, sustained a cut on his paw. For 30 minutes of his time, the vet charged me $550.00. My Maybach needed an annual tune-up. The mechanic's bill was for $1,200.00 (he spent 3 hours). Conclusion: these professionals are making money hand over fist and at least in the grease monkey's case, there are no student loans. Who would have thought that grease monkeys or vets were smarter than lawyers. Times have changed.
61: Just like Sullivan & Worcester in Boston, but Williams Mullen didn't also give out 40% offers and act like bumbling fools while doing so.
JaKe, as an "editor" of your law review, you should probably know than in order to use the word "nor," you need to use "neither" first. Your sentence should read:
"Just because *neither* you nor those with whom you associate..."
Your fellow law review scrubs will thank you if you can learn how to write a little better.
51, this is the best rumor I've ever seen. Please let it be true.
Jake, the lady doth protest too much. Your various slipups today have exposed you for the fraud that you are. Go away.
61 is correct. WM raised rates this year.
43, this video is special because the Acorn director, national media and other special people like yourself bragged for weeks about how the journalists were foiled in Philly, and the police called on them. This video is brilliant because it embarrassingly highlights the lies of each of them with footage from the visit. It's a masterpiece. Sorry it hurts so badly to hear it that you go ad hominem on the messenger.
I can confirm the Latham rumor. We were told at monthly associate meetings.
ShaFeef = Lat
at least in Richmond the price of housing is low enough that even with these reduced rates, a lawyer could still afford a "lawyer-worthy" house. I have recently been promoted out of the associate ranks in a NY amlaw 100 firm, and am looking at houses for 3-4 times the price, and not as nice, as those available to a 2nd year or 3rd year at WM in Richmond.
"Just because you nor those with whom you associate have never been placed on partner track while in law school does not mean that those who work hard (i.e., me) cannot."
The above sentence made my head hurt. After reading it, I am forced to conclude that JaKe is the nom de plume of Elie Mystal.
This post is addressed to Commenters #67 and 75:
#67: When using "nor,"
a preceding "neither" is preferable, not required.
#75: This is one of the countless reasons why I attend a preeminent peer law school and you do not.
"Our clients are saying, ‘You better do this,’"
Fucking liar.
The ship be sinking...
"large and prominent" firm? I've never heard of these guys.
Jake, Jake, Jake, I'll be sad to see you go, but now, after being exposed as a hack who (1) thinks he is an "associate" despite the fact that he hasn't passed the bar, (2) doesn't know that only hacks use "nor" without a preceding "neither", and (3) has revealed that daddy's law firm is NOT a preeminent, peer firm which would never hire a nosebleed prone daddy's boy, GO YOU MUST.
Also, for the future, when trying to maintain a fictional personality, one must NEVER cower to providing actual details of one's life. You FAIL. Go back to cite checking, pussy.
25 nailed it.
The "Clients" most likely told the law firm "we're not paying X/hr for a brand new associate, cut the rate, do that work yourself, or we'll take our business elsewhere."
The firm turns this around into, Clients told us you better cut associate salaries.
Yo Lat, I'm happy for you and Ima let you finish, but shouldn't you check out to see of WM actually lowered billing rates or per some commenters RAISED them?
OMG does this spell the end of JaKe????? Law review....pretty pathetic that someone with such vaunted "conncetions" had to check cites and build a resume to work at daddy's lame ass PI firm. Whoops! Hope you like chasing ambulances!
When did Hunton cut salaries? I thought they just fired a bunch of people.
51 = EPIC FAIL IF LYING.
What's the deal with Shafeef and Jake? It seems like they are an item, but are they exclusive? I'll have to check out TMZ. I have little doubt that the peer firm Jake works at has a cutting-edge diversity program such that he (and Shafeef) will be welcome with open arms.
For everyone's information, this "was" the biggest client of WM:
http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2009/10/20/landamerica-settlement-hard-swallow-for-former-customers/
Williams Mullen is only doing what's prudent given that the Dow has fallen below 10,000 today, signaling the end of the 6 month bear market rally.
It's a great day to be at Williams Mullen!
Did the spokesperson actually tell ATL that clients said, "You better do this?" Or was this an internal email? Either way, I think we all assume that what clients actually said was that rates should go down, not salaries. But for a firm to tell ATL that clients instructed them to lower salaries and expect anyone to believe that seems absurd.
$117K is way too much to pay first year associates, who don't know shit from shineola. Something around $50K for first year, moving up each year thereafter until topping out around $125K. Then, up or out. This makes sense, particularly given that there's so little work to do.
What about Sullivan & Worcester in Boston? AmLaw 200 firm, ~ 200 lawyers, cut first-year salaries to $125,000 in April and offer rate for 2009 summers was ~40%. Also rescinded offers to incoming associates in March. Plus, their legal recruiting manager and hiring partner are awkward, bumbling fools when it came to the summer program and hiring decisions.
Sullivan & Worcester proves that medium-ish Boston firms can also be horrible to their associates and summers, as well.
So this firm actually has first years? Isn't $117k in VA better than the illusion of $160k in NYC?
Isn't $117k in VA better than $160k in NYC regardless?
94,
Depends where.
$117k in DC is only marginally better than $117k in DC.
On the other hand $117k in Richmond or (god forbid) out in Western Virginia would probably enable one to live quite a bit better than $160k in NY. (Excepting student loan payments of course, but that's almost a constant).
They must've changed the definition of 'prominent' since the last time I looked it up in a dictionary.
Whomever found it appropriate to share internal WM business with this blog should consider the fact that the firm pays associate six-figure salaries to, among other things, behave like professionals.
Whomever found it appropriate to share internal WM business with this blog should consider the fact that the firm pays associate six-figure salaries to, among other things, behave like professionals.
Like the "firm spokesperson" 97/98?
Squisha Squisha!
Dear Retards,
Clients do care about associate pay. "Why?" you ask.
GC squeezes partner for reduction in bill and/or rate. Partner pushes back. GC responds "You haven't even cut associate salaries like everyone else."
Scene.
Clients usually have no idea what associates, or partners for that matter, make. They aren't privy to the yearly reviews/bonus payouts. Are clients griping that firms aren't cutting staff pay? At a firm like Williams Mullen chances are you have plenty of staff that come close to 1st year associate in the pay category.....given that it has reverse leverage. "Offices other than DC"? - how many associates does WM have in DC? 3?
"Clients usually have no idea what associates, or partners for that matter, make."
Wrong-o, Boy-o.
"Whomever found it appropriate to share internal WM business with this blog should consider the fact that the firm pays associate six-figure salaries to, among other things, behave like professionals."
------------
It sounds like WM is happy to let the public know about this. They are proudly responding to their clients.
"Clients do care about associate pay. "Why?" you ask.
GC squeezes partner for reduction in bill and/or rate. Partner pushes back. GC responds "You haven't even cut associate salaries like everyone else."
Scene. "
--------------------
Sure, if the salary cut means a cut in the bill/rate. But the spokesmen didn't say anything about a cut in rates. The comments here assert that rates went UP.
The GC isn't going to be happy if the partner comes back and says "we cut salaries like you suggested, but our rates are the same."
"It sounds like WM is happy to let the public know about this. They are proudly responding to their clients."
Are you Ted Chandler?
Unlike -- I imagine -- many of you, I've actually negotiated a number of enagements with clients for a V20 firm. Few clients have mentioned anything to me about associate pay. In general, they care about billing rates, service, and results. Many of the in-house lawyers I work with once worked in large firms. They know being an associate sucks, and why firms have to pay so much to get decent people.
Also, fwiw, a client who would care about associate pay can't be all that sharp, since almost all of the increase in billing rates of the past decade has lined the pockets of partners, not associates. At my firm, PPPs have increased 300% in a decade. Starting associate pay has increased about 50% over the same period. In dollar terms, the difference between the partner increase in compensation, and associate increase in compensation is vast.
nope, associates don't make that money because it 'sucks', they get paid that much because the market can sustain it.. or did.
108, you are an idiot. think one level deeper. there is a reason why the market is/sustains x. supply is part of that.
Hunton did NOT cut salaries....this story is incorrect.
http://www.huntoncareers.com/attorneys/compensationandbenefits/
110- Interesting.
This story definitely needs clarification. Either ATL is making crap up (most likely), other firms are making crap up, or HW is making crap up. But something is definitely amiss.
110, you're right, but you're timing is wrong. HW hasn't cut pay, but they're going to on Friday. Get ready for a big dick up the ass.
OMG, let's get this straight. Williams Mullen is building a new skyscraper in the central office city (Richmond) that most clients know about, and clients are griping about associate salaries?
Associates are used for one thing in big law firms--to do the work. In order to succeed there one has to realize that life ceases to exist, except at "the firm". If you aren't willing to kill yourself to line the pockets of partners, then you will not last long. Some other poor sap is more than willing to take your place. The bottom line is that Williams Mullen has one thing in mind, looking out for #1.
Associates are used for one thing in big law firms--to do the work. In order to succeed there one has to realize that life ceases to exist, except at "the firm". If you aren't willing to kill yourself to line the pockets of partners, then you will not last long. Some other poor sap is more than willing to take your place. The bottom line is that Williams Mullen has one thing in mind-- looking out for #1.