Seasonal Work For Laid Off Attorneys: Halloween Time
Unlike some firms which post ads on Craigslist looking for attorneys to work for free, at least one Greenport, NY man is looking to pay for legal services.
The service he needs rendered could be out of community building 101. Here’s the ad, via Jerks in your Area:
Need Halloween Legal Help (Greenport)Every year I put on a Halloween haunted house for my neighborhood. In the past few years, I’ve really stepped up my game with fake blood, assorted limbs and bones (shins, arms, skulls), and lots of pop up zombies, mock executions, etc. Last year I had a bit of a legal snafu when a kid on my block had a seizure and another had to go to therapy after a bullet squib popped too close to his head. Their parents threatened to sue me and the whole ordeal was a hassle. Anyway, I was thinking that this year there are so many out of work lawyers out there that I could probably get one pretty cheap to come and hang out around the house and keep an eye on things. If another parent gets pissed off or whatever, it would be good to have someone who knows the law. I might also need you to write up a release because this year the guillotine will be real.
I’ve never really hired a lawyer before so I’m not really sure what they charge but I’m guessing it won’t be more than like $18 an hour. If you have one of those insane clown masks that would be really helpful too.
Aww, that’s sweet. That’s just how we roll on “Strong” Island.
But are former Biglaw types even qualified to do this kind of work? Let’s discuss after the jump.
On the one hand, it is very sad and almost fraudulent that most top law schools don’t even remotely prepare you to do this kind of work. Tort issues arising from pop-up zombies? Drafting a general release form? There are more well credentialed recent graduates capable of arguing (mock) cases in front a (fake) Supreme Court than able to help this guy legally frighten his neighbors.
On the other hand, young lawyers, especially those that have been through a year or two of Biglaw, have been reduced to thinking that they cannot complete a legal task without a senior associate and two partners signing off on the work. Biglaw can hobble a person’s independent spirit. Too many Biglaw associates become institutionalized, and that’s partially why so many people struggle if they get laid off.
But this guy is not looking for legal advice on his bet-the-company class action defense. He doesn’t need 15 hours of Westlaw research to find every conceivable haunted precedent. A competent person who has passed the bar should be able to look at a couple of relevant statutes and zoning laws, and pull some forms and templates off the internet. Just use whatever the hell you click “yes” to the first time you load up Resident Evil V to get you started.
After that, you just have to hang out at a haunted house telling overprotective parents “I don’t think so” when they threaten litigation because little Billy peed in his pants. Any reasonably intelligent person can do this, your J.D. is supposed to give you the confidence to try.
Don’t let anybody tell you, you can’t do something just because you’ve never done it before.
Now, whether or not it’s worth it to try to do something new for $18 bucks an hour is entirely up to you. But if could be fun.
Need Halloween Legal Help (Greenport) [Jerks in your Area]
Earlier: It’s Come to This: Unpaid Internships For Lawyers With One - Three Years Experience
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First! Bwa ha ha!
First!
David,
This blog has no substance no more. These posts too gay, blog too gay, too stupid.
Maybe you sleep too many man lately. You should sleep nice Philipino girl, I introduce you to Feng Hee, my friend's daughter. She lawyer too, in Philipines. Then you do blog good, blog better.
-Mom
$18 an hour for the chance of being sued for malpractice. Yea...that sounds worth it.
-Tbone
Firsty to say 3 isn't going to be around long.
Does he require candidates to have had Law Review or Quaterfinal Moot Court status?
3 is eye-roll and slight grunt/snort funny, but in the end comes off as too racist. Please leave it on there so people can see a borderline case and therefore (fingers crossed) learn what to not write.
-not 3, but confident that people will judge 3 accordingly (after a slight chuckle and eye-roll)
3 - Lat's mother is a doctor, so the commenter should be "Dr. Lat."
3 fails on many levels (including the avatar being vietnamese, not filipino) but I bet she makes a damn good garlic ass lobster stir fry.
P.S., not to be the moral police, but what was suggested here (i'm assuming jokingly) is completely unethical and might very well result in license suspension or revocation.
1) you can't even IMPLY that you're counsel for an unrepresented person. It's a very gray area that is judged by the average (read: stupid) person, and they think anytime a lawyer talks to them they're being represented, which is an ethical rules violation.
2) you're not allowed to do work that you are not competent to do. while law students SHOULD know how to do this (assuming your proposition), it does not necessarily follow that a lawyer therefore CAN take this on. There is a disjuncture there you should be able to see without further elaboration.
3) lawyers are prohibited from intimidating fellow/opposing counsel, clients, officers of the court, judges, etc. While he doesn't per se say it, it sounds like this guy wants someone there to emotionally intimidate parents who have an injured child. Sorry, but you can't do that.. He also suggests that he might want the lawyer to scare them physically ("insane clown mask"), which is beyond illegal.
In short, I really hope this was posted as a joke (I'm fairly certain about that one), but I just hope some desperate lawyer doesn't take this guy or some similar situation up (this i'm not so confident about because, no offense, there are lots of smart dumb people)
-7
Of course, whoever ends up doing this needs to include a retainer agreement for any ensuing lawsuits and make one night of work turn into three years. 18 an hour is hard to swallow, tho.
3 fails on many levels (including the avatar being vietnamese, not filipino) but I bet she makes a damn good garlic ass lobster stir fry.
"Intimidation" by acting like "someone who knows the law" is unethical? I should file an ethics complaint against every lawyer I have ever dealt with.
I wonder if the poster is registered with the state bar licensing authority to solicit such business?
Also, using a clown mask to scare kids in a haunted house on Halloween "is beyond illegal"? By "beyond illegal" do you mean looped back around infinity to become perfectly legal?
My first piece of advice would be: "because this year the guillotine will be real."
No, it isn't.
That will be $18.
#10 seems to misunderstand the ad. I too am guessing that the ad is a joke, but even if it isn't, providing legal services to a haunted house wouldn't have to be unethical.
The guy putting on the haunted house is the client, not the kids and parents who threaten to sue. As long as these kids and parents do not have their own counsel, the lawyer can talk to them and respond to their threats to sue. Of course he can't imply that he represents them when he actually represents the haunted house owner. Nothing in the ad suggests this.
As far as physically scaring people, it sounds like the owner wants the lawyer to act as another employee of the haunted house in scarring people when he is not working as a lawyer. I don't think the ad writer intends for the lawyer to threaten physical injury to people who threaten to sue. Obviously no lawyer can do that.
I do agree with the above posts that $18 per hour doesn't seem like much pay, especially if you consider possible malpractice liability. Also, there is the possible concern about potential conflicts of interest if the lawyer's present or future firm represents someone who is somehow involved in a dispute arising out of this.
There are so many ethical problems here it is painful. Conflict of interests, dealing with unrepresented persons, intimidation, and potential malpractice by incompetence or misstatement of material facts (i.e., pulling llaw out of your ass).
IN SHORT: A lawyer may not stand next to a client and tell a potentially opposing party that said opposing party does not have a claim, EVEN IF you get consent because of the inherent conflict of interest.
The whole point of the ABA ethic rules that most courts have adopted is to prevent PRECISELY what this guy wants to do--strong arm unrepresented people into thinking they don't have a claim.
Beyond unethical. And yes, if a lawyer did this to you in a capacity where you were a mere average person, then you can seek discipline against them and you might have a COA against them as well.
*****************************************************
Rule 4.1 (misstating facts, AKA acting like you know zoning law and tort law and whether or not the opposing party has a colorable claim)
"In the course of representing a client, a lawyer shall not knowingly: (a) make a false statement of material fact or law to a third person;..."
Rule 4.3 (unrepresented persons)
"By representing a client, a lawyer is permitted to discuss a subject matter with a person who is not represented by an attorney, but the lawyer must be extremely careful to not mislead the unrepresented person about the lawyer’s role in the matter. The lawyer must make the unrepresented person understand that he is an advocate, and he must not pretend to be neutral, and must clear up any misunderstanding about his role as an advocate for his client. A lawyer generally may negotiate with an unrepresented opponent, and may draft some type of documents for unrepresented person to sign as long as the lawyer clarifies his or her role, and does not claim disinterest, and does not engage in any type of misrepresentation. It is, however, prudent for the lawyer to urge the unrepresented person to seek counsel, and the lawyer should document this advice to the best of his ability."
and other rules that are easily available on a 3 second google search (see conflicts of interest, Rule 4.2 barring harassment and intimidation, and model rule 8.1 the general catch all prohibiting unseemly actions such as described in the article)
-7
18=idiot
Where in the ad does it ask that the lawyer to misstate facts or to mislead people about who the lawyer represents?
18 you are a colossal imbecile.
1. The ABA rules are not binding on anyone. States regulate ethics, you moron.
2. The rules you quoted completely contradict your interpretation. It clearly says lawyers shall not make FALSE statements of the law, and they shall not MISREPRESENT their position. I assume lawyers representing clients don't claim to be average men on the street who saw an argument and felt a need to opine.
3. You yourself technically just violated the rules you quoted by misstating the law.
4. Your interpretation of the law would make 95% of legal work impossible! Ever heard of mediation?
You are a moron. What toilet of a law school do you go to? Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if it was Yale. Only a P/F Yalie can be both so completely incompetent and yet also confident.
MRSLAT, TYTY FOR THIS NEW SHTICK & PLEASE KEEP IT COMING, HOPEFULLY WITH REFERENCES TO LAT'S HOMOSEXUALITY & GAY SEX WITH ELIE.
But if could be fun
Way to go elie. Nice typo
Yikes, 18. Get off your high horse. The guy isn't asking the lawyer to misrepresent anything. In fact, the ad specifically says "it would be good to have someone who knows the law."
And if you're trolling 18, congrats.
18 says: "A lawyer may not stand next to a client and tell a potentially opposing party that said opposing party does not have a claim, EVEN IF you get consent because of the inherent conflict of interest."
Wait, what do litigators do again?
21,
I no shtick. I really David's Mom. I real.
Could it be any more transparent that somebody wrote that entire thing to "tip" in to ATL?
God damn. You guys are what's wrong with this profession. Yes, it's difficult to tell when something is tongue-in-cheek when read, but . . . well, shit. Do I have to say more? I guess I do.
No, this probably isn't intended to be a farcical joke. Yes, this guy is joking. He's obviously pissed at the fact that someone threatened to sue because their child had a problem with a haunted house (probably thinking, "don't bring your child to a haunted house w/ strobe lights and such if he's got problems."). He probably does want someone to respond in all seriousness . . . but he want someone who thinks that the situation is ridiculous . . . like he does.
Clear? Everybody got it now?
I mean . . . goddamn!
$18/ hour only gets you the lawyer, the clown mask is an extra $5/hour.
First
27, you mean the guillotine won't actually be real, like he said?
Why are you raining on the parades of people who need to use any and every opportunity to display any perceived advantage of knowledge over anyone who will listen?
3/21, I'm begging you to stop, and to stop posting as guest to laud your dumb comment. Or at least do some research. Not funny, not interesting, not brazenly un-PC. Just dumb.
My Halloween costume generally involves a lot of leather.
For the record, several REAL small law firms are looking to hire new grads for $30k (no benefits, of course), which works out to around $14 and change an hour, assuming a 40-hour workweek. Assuming a more realistic 55-60 hour workweek, that's what? $11/hour? $10/hour? Low enough for us poor bastards from Northeastern Law to just go get a job at Barnes and Nobles or something.
32 again. Here's an example of the former:
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/lgl/1398499857.html
"Candidates will be members of the Massachusetts Bar and should have excellent work product. Candidate will also have strong writing and research skills. Duties will include drafting and reviewing complaints, motions, preparation of discovery, and communicating with the courts and clients. Multiple court appearances each week, so reliable transportation is a must. Excellent communication skills a plus. Pay is commensurate with experience $30,000-$35,000. "
Fucked for life.
@10
1. you can tell the unrepresented person you are talking to that they need to seek out a lawyer for advice
2. Lawyers are considered, by default, generalists. If they do not know the information now, then they can take time to learn it through self-education.
3. You can explain to your client that he can't use the law to intimidate people.
Mmm, yeah, Partner baby. I've got my new choke chain ready. Rough me up good on Halloween, you magnificent stud.
Deal flow is back baby
@3 -
It's "Filipino," you ignorant fuck.
And continuously repeating your stupid schtick won't somehow make it funny.
/ Not Lat, not gay
No one here has a clue as to what they could actually do to help this guy (and anyone who does clearly understands that the risk of malpractice/ violating an impossible ethics code makes it completely infeasible).
BigLaw, along with the ABA, creates useless drones, nothing more.
If you want to learn how to be a real lawyer, go clerk.
(Note: This post not directed to deal lawyers, who are superior people, are definitely not penurious, and who shouldn't be burdened with trivial matters of the common people).
Hi. I am 71 year old Philipino man and David Lat's father. My wife make delicious rice cake soup. My son date need to date nice Philipino lady no date man. No date man. Chopsticks, rice, laundry, etc.
"If you want to learn how to be a real lawyer, go clerk."
Bwwaaahahaaahhaaaahaaa. Thanks for the laugh.
MrLat = MrsLat = dbag who still can't spell Filipino = dude currently furiously masturbating on couch with cheese doodle-caked palms while Googling elderly Asians
Post #38 brings up a good point:
"No one here has a clue as to what they could actually do to help this guy (and anyone who does clearly understands that the risk of malpractice/ violating an impossible ethics code makes it completely infeasible)."
This is a major problem with the legal profession: law makes it difficult to help others with what could be basic legal problems. The risk of malpractice, conflicts of interest, and violations of other ethics rules create a strong disincentive for a lawyer to provide quick legal advice. There may be many simple things the haunted house owner could do to minimize liability and/or injury while still having a good haunted house, but few lawyers are going to want to give him even brief legal advice.
In some other professions, these risks are not quite so prevalent, so friends, family, and others are more likely to be willing to give informal advice that may help point the person in the right direction.
Re: all the comments about ethics problems... Good points. No lawyer ever wrote a letter on behalf of a client explaining to a 3rd party that the 3rd party's threat to sue is meritless -- that would be a sure ticket to sanctions by your state Bar. That would be like arguing in a settlement discussion or contract negotiation that you think the other side's points are wrong on the facts and/or law, when you are actually concerned that they are right and your client is on thin ice. Because after all, lawyers aren't advocates or anything. Attorneys always have to give their unvarnished opinion of the legal merits of any question they are asked (or even if they weren't asked, but should have been), without regard to their clients' interests.
I know people make fun of Mystal's grammar all the time, but I have a serious question. Are you supposed to put a comma between two of the same words, as he did with this: "Don’t let anybody tell you, you can’t do something just because you’ve never done it before. "
18 bucks an hour and I get to wear my clown mask? I'm in!!!
@44 - instead of the comma, try "that"
There's a guy up my street that puts out "scary" halloween stuff, including a table with a dummy lying on it, w/ a ghoul doctor standing over it cutting up the dummy with a fake machete; fake blood everywhere. The whole display is so douchey. A woman would never do this.
lol @ how 18 gets pwned by a gang of posters, and tries to come back as a "new" identity (e.g. 38, 42) only to get pwned brutally again by 43.
18 just stfu already.
This would never hapen at Widener
Couldn't somebody just show up, accept $18 per hour, and do absolutely nothing?
Lawyers need to learn to tell clients "no". We are trained to always find a way and say yes, but that is what got our profession to this crappy denigrated state that it is now.