Passed the bar. Lost my job a week later. YMMV

Second to say I'm first!

first to say first

I can't imagine somebody who was both aggressive enough and competent enough to get a summer job and an offer in this economy, yet couldn't pass the bar.

who, not that, you race baiting walrus.

4: people who just took the bar summered in 2008 when offer rates were still pretty much 100% everywhere.

Layoffs at SkaddenDC. Closed door meetings all day.

4 - The people who passed/failed the most recent bar didn't get their offer in this economy.

Moron.

i have goat balls

Who
What
When
Where
WALRUS!!!!!

10 -

Baaaaaaa.....

- 11

7, 9:

I apologize for my existence.

- 4

Um...fear mongering much?

I know one young man who still has a job despite failing the bar exam.

I am deferred and passed the bar . . . but my firm has not asked for verification yet, which I am surprised. That would seem like an easy way to get rid of a few at least.

Was given another shot. Bless my firm.

It's a radiation vibe I'm groovin' on.

16, maybe they looked up your name on the bar results website.

17, hope you're trolling. Failing the bar is utterly inexcusable.

Kash-

Does Elie shout "Allahu Akbahr" before he grabs the turducken off of your desk?

Mystal, your Walrus whiskers tickle today.

David Lat

Anyone here waiting on New Jersey? Supposed to come out today, website mentioned by 4pm and still nothing.

I failed the NY bar on thursday and was fired on friday. I had one hell of a week last week.

I failed the NY bar on thursday and was fired on friday. I had one hell of a week last week.

waiting for nj
when does the bar office close?

California Bar results come out in 10 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quick off topic question.

Why do people refer to T14 or T20? Whats the significance of drawing an arbitrary line there?

As I understand the US news rankings, its T1, T2, T3, T4, with T1 and T2 being broken down further into individual rankings.

Why is T14 mentioned so often in law school forum comments? Why not T15, or T25?

If you prepared sufficiently, the bar was not difficult. The only people that I knew who failed clowned around all summer instead of buckling down and taking it with the seriousness it merited, i.e., class every day plus study every afternoon/evening until bedtime, and solid study between the end of classes and the exam.

23--you are a moron. There's no word because it is NOT 4 YET!

28--same 14 schools have always been in the T14, so people refer to that number instead of 15 or 20. That, plus it makes GULCers feel better about their miserable lives.

Lots of smart, prepared people fail the bar. Just like lots of stupid people pass. I haven't heard of anyone getting the boot yet.

29- you wasted a lot of time studying if you actually did that.

28 - Assuming no troll, the significance of t-14 is that they are the only 14 schools to hold down those spots, and all have been in the t10, no other schools can say that. The cut off has a lot more significance than just picking an arbitrary number.

t20 is a retarded statement, there is no meaningful difference between 20/21.

you wrote:
"But what about the few, the unhappy few, who did not pass? We know that the pressure was greater than ever this year to pass the bar on the first try. "

Are we still pretending that most law school grads got job offers? Even though we know that the vast vast vast majority did not get a job offer as a lawyer and are therefore working for their rich relatives or working at starbucks (if they did not have rich relatives) or working at the jobs they had before law school?

Why do you go on playing this little game?

I'm sorry, but for BigLaw and all large regional firms, they should fire anyone who fails to pass the bar the first time around. Nothing to do with the economy, but everything to do with quality. No reasonably intelligent law grad who studied hard would fail the bar exam. If you can't prepare to pass something as easy as the bar exam, then you don't belong at a quality law firm. Go find a government job, where quality doesn't matter all that much.

28,

Because the same 14 schools have always been ranked 1-14 in US News and World Report with Georgetown Law always 14th.

If you said T15 it wouldn't be clear whether the 15th school was Texas/Vandy/USC etc.

you wrote:
"But what about the few, the unhappy few, who did not pass? We know that the pressure was greater than ever this year to pass the bar on the first try. "

Are we still pretending that most law school grads got job offers? Even though we know that the vast vast vast majority did not get a job offer as a lawyer and are therefore working for their rich relatives or working at starbucks (if they did not have rich relatives) or working at the jobs they had before law school?

Why do you go on playing this little game?

I failed the bar but have kept my job. Feel like an idiot for failing, but feel pretty good about still having a job.

i passed 4 bar exams last week. i was all like "have fun living in thy city. hott child living in thy city. so fine living in thy city." Foona, dear. Smithsonian? Needless to say, I'm living in thy city.

20 - Unfortunately not. I am a waste. My every sense of self worth and dignity has whithered away. I am hopeless and an unnecessary burden on society until I pass.

The picture looks like that girl is sneezing. I wonder if she farted at the same time.

Never cracked a book for the bar and passed the TX bar exam on the first try.

Locke Lord Houston secure

no, CA comes out in 11 days, and at 6pm. so we have a ways to go

I know of a few ppl in my class who just failed and there really is no explanatory level of lack of intelligence of preparation. it seems pretty random to me.

oh and none, as far as i know, have had their jobs/offers revoked.

28 - T14 are the 14 schools that are consistently ranked at the top of the league table. T14 is the only real designation, with the possible exception of T3 (HYS).

There is no such thing as T20 or T25. That's just a fabrication that some people who went to good schools outside the T14 promote to try to make their school sound elite.

There also is no such thing as T6, or T9. That is a fabrication perpetuated by some people who went to T14 schools that are not HYS to try to make their school sound somehow more prestigious than the T14 schools ranked lower that particular year. If someone coyly claims to attend a T7 school, that just means they attend whichever school USNWR ranked #7 in its most recent table.

Lat -

Please call your BFF in Trenton and have him release the mother-loving bar results. Thx.

Why would any firms fire someone for failing the bar in this economy?

- Mr. Dow 10,200

@35: 39 here good buddy and i couldn't agree more. to quote jim carsons, "you are correct a mundo, good sir."

Is Lat having an affair with McGreevy?

35 - You are a tool. Many very smart attorneys fail the bar on the first try. They may have studied insufficiently, or simply had a really bad day. It sounds like you consider passing the bar to be a personal achievement, which means you are a loser.

For anyone who failed the bar, overstudy next time and pass it.

Sincerely,
Passed multiple bar exams, never failed, but know it's just not a big deal.

New Jersey results are out.

Good point, 47. Dow's at highest level since October 2008. Recession's over. 190?

28: The other posters who say "it's because the same 14 schools have been ranked in those spots" are right, but the bigger significance is the national reach of the top 14 schools vs. the rest. If you go to any of the T14, you can (more or less, sans the crappy economy) get a job anywhere in the country with your law degree. As you move beyond the T14 to places like Texas, Vandy, UCLA, etc. schools become increasingly "regional" where you're more or less tied to your law school's geographic area. For example, you're not going to find that many Vandy grads in the northeast or west coast, that many UCLA grads out east, etc.

Beyond that, the other groupings are pretty arbitrary. T20 is pretty arbitrary since it's only adding 6 more schools that rotate in and out every year. But, something like T30 is reasonable enough to use since most people believe that the 15-30 range is pretty good, especially in the law school's geographic market. Ex, UCLA does well in LA, GW does well in DC, BU/BC do well in Boston, etc. Beyond the top 30 or so, you start to get into middling law school territory where only the top grads of those schools are going to have a good shot at biglaw. In my opinion, that's probably the cutoff point -- if you don't get into a ~T30 and you're taking out loans expecting to be able to repay them based on future biglaw earnings, you should seriously consider other options.

43--

What the fuck is 'a ways'-- can you think of another example where you would pair the indefinite article with a plural noun? Clean it up, sir! How can we expect to lecture Elie if we ourselves cannot use the language correctly?

My V50 firm called us last week and confirmed our January start dates....for all 50+ of us. That was before the bar results came out. As far as I know, no one failed.

Hopefully they will be dismissed and there will be a few more job opportunities available for licensed attorneys.

People who failed the bar fall into three camps: 1) Idiots, 2) Smart people who didn't study, and 3) smart people who studied and then imploded the day of the exam. I know 5 people who failed NY. 1 was in the first camp, 1 was in the second camp, and 3 were in the third camp. I don't know that any of them have been fired yet. But seriously, tons of people fail because they do stupid shit the day of the exam. One girl I studied with knew a shitload more than I did and then managed her time badly on the essays and didn't finish one of them and only half finished the MPT. She failed. Another girl didn't do the NY multiple choice first like we were supposed to and only answered 25% of them before time was called. She also failed. A third guy I know didn't take the day before the test off to relax, freaked himself out with last minute studying, couldn't sleep the night before and then had a full-blown panic attack during the middle of the exam. He also failed. Basically, I know more people who failed the bar because of bad test-taking skills than I know people who failed because they didn't know the material. The moral of this story? Study hard but chill the fuck out and don't be a dipshit the day of the exam, and you'll be fine.

I failed because I didn't take it seriously enough. Feel pretty stupid because of that, but hey, at least I still have my job.

Is it weird that I am unsatisfied with a simple "Pass" and want to know exactly how well I did? Is this because I want to know how much better I am than everyone else? I know you all feel the same way, amirite, amirite, amirite??

My firm sent out an email in June letting us know that anyone who failed their respective bar would have their offer rescinded. Unless you got your department head and practice group leader to make an exception for you.

45,

Do you really believe there is not a T6? CCN is clearly a cut above the rest of the T14, in that pre-recession, everyone who went there was guaranteed a job in BigLaw, even the bottom quartile.

I passed because I went to UVA and am smarter than most of you.

At Latham NY Dave Gordon told the four first year associates who failed the bar that they wouldn't be laid-off. A few months later, 3 were laid-off. The firm kept the son of a practice group leader who also was not staffed on a single matter come layoff day. He was on his post-second bar trip.

JaKe,

Rest assured that when you fail the bar next July, there is an open position waiting for you as my stable boy at my Montauk estate. Your responsibilities will involve sweeping the barn, feeding the stock, and cleaning up horse shit.

Will it be glamorous? No. But Stephen's Talkhouse is not too far away. You'll be able to spend your paltry salary there along with the other peons and weekend warriors.

Incidentally, your father and I are playing a round of golf this weekend. Be a good lad and carry our bags. There's a 20 dollar bill in it for you.

57 is exactly right -- some people just have awful test taking skills, and even though they know the material, melt down on the exam. You could argue that being a lawyer doesn't have much to do with sitting a room without any materials and under very limited time conditions. But, to be fair, getting that stressed out / frazzled by an exam isn't a good sign either. Being a lawyer often does involve very limited time frames to get assignments done and stress that you have to be able to cope with.

I agree that passing the bar isn't some super prestigious accomplishment -- the NY pass rate for first time takers from ABA accredited law schools was almost 90%. However, being in the bottom 10% group is pretty sad, and honestly, if you're the weak compared to your peers, it's not a good sign. There's a reason that the retake pass rate is so low -- you might think it was just a fluke, but over half those people aren't going to pass in February either.

62

I know an infamous bar failer from UVA who failed the bar.

I've had my job since 2L spring. I received an offer for in-house counsel after graduation, graduated, accepted the offer, didn't study for the bar over the summer (was working instead), and failed the bar.

Miraculously, the company has kept me on. Small place, but they treat me well in terms of pay, hours, and responsibility. That the work is interesting is a bonus.

AYHSMB

61 CCN may be better than 7-14, but there's no point talking about "T6." Just use the term "CCN" so nobody thinks you're trying to equate those 3 with HYS.

-NYU STUD.

35 - You are a tool. Many very smart attorneys fail the bar on the first try. They may have studied insufficiently, or simply had a really bad day. It sounds like you consider passing the bar to be a personal achievement, which means you are a loser.
=======================
Tool? You, sir, are an idiot. Of course passing the bar isn't a personal achievement. But failing the bar proves beyond any doubt that the person who failed is a tool, a complete fool who doesn't know the importance of being prepared for something important. If a law grad can't be prepared to pass the bar, then I sure as hell wouldn't trust the person to represent my neighbor's dog. Yes, sir, you are an idiot and a tool. Fuck you, and fuck the high horse you seem to think you're sitting on.

39 here good buddies. my lawyer failed the junk out of the bar exam b/c he freaked out. he is a really smart guy but just couldn't handle the pressure. when he represented me he freaked out in front of the judge b/c he couldn't handle the pressure. oh well. we'll get em next time good buddy.

lucky for me i passed 4 bar exams on the first try. i'm like the Jim Marshall of me day and junk. I also be a pirate. Arrrrrrg matey. I was the dood who pirated Gibeon's boat in Gibeons vs. Odgens. Hee hee. :)

The most impressive score is the lowest possible passing score. This indicates the most efficient amount of study. Any additional study beyond the minimum necessary was a waste of time.

53 is a motherfuckin moron.

61: I'm not 45, but the problem with T6 now is that it keeps getting shuffled if you're going by USNews rankings. Berkeley is up there now, Penn has creeped in there as well, and now Chicago is on the verge of falling out altogether. Personally, I agree that Columbia, Chicago, and NYU are a cut above the rest of the non-HYS schools. But, there's just too much muddling below HYS to make a definitive cutoff anymore. And, like 45 said, it kind of reeks of "let's make the cutoff just above my school" gaming, as in, obviously it's CCN people who most strongly believe there's a T6 so they appear a tier ahead of Penn, Berkeley, etc.

Mystal, your demise is nigh!!! I will be boiling your blubber by sundown tomorrow!

The Most Interesting Eskimo in the World

72 clearly went to a TTT and is trying to vent out his anger that no one respects his law school. Sorry man.

63 - Someone from Latham NY failed again this year. A girl.

Legacies who never deserved to get into law school in the first place often fail the bar. Look at JFK Jr. and the Latham bfps. Both idiot legacies, both failed the NY bar. It's a shame that either of these oafs were able to get jobs thanks to daddy.

71: Uh, the lowest passing score means you almost failed. And given how arbitrary the essay grading can be, and how ambiguous some of the MBE questions were, it means you were well within the margin of error of failing. As in, if you took it again, you might very well fail. I agree that getting a super high score means you overdid it, but there's nothing bragworthy about almost failing.

@77= Trig Palin

77, blacks also fail the NY bar at much higher rates. What do you think about that?

www.nybarexam.org/press/summary2.pdf

76 - is the bar failer deferred to January or to October? Most people think Latham NY first years deferred to October will get another crack at the February bar.

69

Jeezus christ, chill, bitch

45-I think I've heard some pretty important people refer to T20 or T25. Can you check your sources?

Good point 68. I guess my objection was to the idea that it goes HYS and then the rest of the T14. But you are right in that CCN should not be mixed in with HYS.

73 - CCN is the next tier down from HYS, no matter what USNWR says.

-61

In a normal year, Vandy does well in NY, California, & DC.

does anyone know how illinois bar passers can find out their MBE score?

39 here good buddies. some people are idiots. some people are smart. me, i passed 4 bar exams on the first try. my buddy, zack morris, made a 1502 on the SAT and got into Stansbury. Jessie Spano had to marry Slater b/c she bombed the SAT. she was always a loser. Remember when Jessie's step brother took apart and put back together Mrs. Belding's Miata? Man, that was amazing. Slater was an idiot too.

81

A recruiter at Latham LA let it slip that you'd better fucking pass the bar if you want a job. Unless, of course, you're a partner's son. Then it doesn't matter what the fuck you do.

Who cares. Everybody knows the bar is a sexist exam with lots of questions about sports and testicles.

i failed the ny bar on my first try but my firm let me take it again and didn't fire me. I failed because I didn't study enough but instead drove around in my new convertible, which I leased with my salary advance! I've subsequently moved to the business side and make more and work less than my classmates. Life goes on. Don't worry if you fail the bar. Study more next time.

Deadspin.com has much better comments. Peace!

84, please look at the GPA and LSAT #s of HYS vs. Columbia and NYU and tell me that there are meaningful differences. C and N get arguably, "better" (numbers-wise) students than Stanford.

90, was the convertible a sweet Porsche Boxster? Models and Bottles, Baby!

My dad's a partner. yah i failed the bar. whatevah, whatevah, i do what i want.

Not a Boxster, a Boxster S, lol.

Jobs? Don't talk to me about jobs! Jobs?

the girl in the pic looks like she just got Winstoned.

Anyone else take the MPRE on Saturday? How do you think it went? It seemed a little harder than I had expected, from the minimal studying I did.

97,

Do you mean Lathamed?

What is Winstoned?

Lathamed has been conveniently defined for us. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lathamed

Can someone explain what it means to be Winstoned?

39 here good buddies. CHEAP CHAMPAGNE BABY!!!!!!!!!! Here's some advice, doods: DONT FAIL THE BAR. I agree w/ my good buddy Numero 35 in that if you fail the bar you should be fired. what's the point in having an atty who failed the bar. why would you honestly hire someone who bombed a test that is set up to judge if you have minimum competence to do your job. 39 out good buddies.

I believe Winstoned means redeferred

Lathamed = Laid off after only a couple months of work, without proper time to evaluate.

Winstoned = "Indefinitely deferred," so you have no idea when (or even if) you're going to start. Kept in a state of limbo.

85: You're missing the point. Fine, Vandy normally does (reasonably) well in NY, LA, DC, but it doesn't do nearly as well as even the bottom T14 schools (Northwestern, Cornell, Georgetown) do in those markets. No one is maligning Vandy, but it doesn't have a national reputation like the T14 schools do.

why bother doing a bar results post when CA bar results aren't out yet? premature...

80 -

And more white people failed the bar than black people when they raised the passing requirements.

68 -

NYU Stud = Oxymoron. And I know first hand.

-NYU 3L

92: Not exactly. Columbia and Stanford accept different kinds of students. Stanford puts more weight on GPA (the median GPA is 3.87) and Columbia puts significantly more weight on LSAT (the median GPA is 3.71 and a quarter of the CLS class had a GPA in the 3.5s or under range). In other words, CLS takes a ton of splitters -- people with 3.4-3.5, 172-173 type numbers. In terms of admsision stats, NYU is basically Columbia-lite (with very similar GPA numbers and slightly lower LSAT scores).

39 here good buddies. the quarter back dropped back to pass . . . the rush came . . . he looked around and no one was open and . . . . he got JACKED UP. you need to get JACKED UP for the Bar exam. He got JACKED UP.

50, if it's not a big deal to fail, then why explicitly mention that you haven't failed?

Elizabeth Wurtzel still hasn't passed right? http://www.nybarexam.org/ExamResults709/WZ708.html
She also no longer works at Bois http://www.bsfllp.com/lawyers/search_out?sa_LastName=W

86, http://www.ncbex.org/

Illinois will give you a score advisory (letting you know if your score is high enough to pass into DC), but will not release the actual score.

HAD A JOB, BUT THE F*****G FLORIDA BAR HAS NOT FINISHED MY CHARACTER AND FITNESS (NINE MONTHS AND NOT A DAMN WORD OTHER THEN STILL INVESTIGATING), SO I WAS FIRED. THANKS A-HOLES.

HAD A JOB, BUT THE F*****G FLORIDA BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS HAS NOT FINISHED MY CHARACTER AND FITNESS (NINE MONTHS AND NOT A DAMN WORD OTHER THEN STILL INVESTIGATING), SO I WAS FIRED. THANKS A-HOLES.

114, what's the story there? did you have some prior record/DUIs/etc? i had to wait on my bar stuff too. annoying.

congrats to all!!!
i found out last week that after 6 tries i finally passed the bar!!! I was crying all day I was so happy- moral of the story is even if you fail you gotta put your head up and be confident in yourself- remember lawyers are some of the smartest people around and if you can get through ls you can pass the bar!!

108, so you would argue that a higher gpa, lower LSAT student is better? CLS's LSAT 25-75 matches HLS.

I just cannot understand in this economic climate and with many incoming classes oversubscribed why firms wouldn't fire people who failed the bar exam. This is a non-arbitrary way to slim the incoming classes and makes perfect business sense.

Dey took our jobs!

45 et.al. have the right of it. Plenty of very bright people fail the bar because they implode on test day. Hey, everyone stumbles now and again.

If you ARE one of those sad folks who got bad results this week, chin up. Quit beating yourself up over it. Study hard, be sure to pass it next time, and wihtin six months or a year it'll all be forgotten.

S&C bonus memo sent around 5:45pm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sullivan releases bonus memo...

same as csm

116

Only six tries? I passed after nine tries and am now a fourth year associate at Cravath.

Believe. You will succeed.

117: As I said before, they're different types of students, not necessarily better or worse. To be fair though, unless you majored in a hard science or went to a notorious grade deflating college, a 3.4-3.5 is not a very competitive GPA for applying to law school.

Yes, CLS's LSAT numbers (170/172/175) are close to Harvard's (170/173/176), but to say they're equal is a stretch. And same as Stanford, the big difference is GPA: Harvard's numbers are significantly better than Columbia's. Like I said before, CLS gets a lot of high LSAT, low GPA splitters whereas HYS are more likely to get the candidates with reasonably high GPAs and LSAT scores.

Pretty sure people have noticed by now, but NJ results are out.

http://www.njbarexams.org/Result/all.htm

I passed the bar after studying only on the way to the exam.

127 - I did that for the MPRE. I'm fully convinced that you do better on that exam without studying and using only your "best judgment."

80,

i'm a foreigner (who passed 2 bars btw) and i find americans hilarious. if you look at the shittiest secondary & tertiary institutions here, they are attended by poor people (lots of minorities are in this group). they receive a subpar education and move on to professional schools (good for them) and suddenly people like you believe that the disparity in the quality of their education will suddenly disappear when they squeak into grad school. Now, my statement is very general and I accept that there are wealthy minorities or those who don't do as well because they don't work as hard, but your response is so irksome. Direct your enery to go read to some illiterate kids whose teachers and disenfranchised parents don't give a fcuk; advocate for property tax reform so that inner city schools are funded on par with suburban schools. Educate yourself before you go sourcing statistics w/out qualifications. America does better when we all prosper.

110: It's the Seinfeld thing all over again: I'm not gay / didn't fail the bar -- not that there's anything wrong with that!

106, that's because more white people take the bar exam in the first place, genius.

Passed the NJ bar. Glad I am clerking so I have another nine months to find a job. Saw a previous clerk from the same court a couple weeks ago......it was tuesday at 4 p.m., she was drunk, and she told us she was collecting unemployment and drinking a lot. So this is what I get to look forward to....................fantastic

Re: LSAT/GPA Statistics

Although most law students believe that their LSAT and undergraduate GPA are meaningful, their only significance is the extent to which T14 schools give them weight when considering them for admission. From day one of 1L year, they become meaningless.

What does matter is the regard in which the law school you attended is held. So you can argue until you are blue in the face that CLS's numbers match Harvard's (which they don't quite). Law firms do not give a rat's ass what your LSAT score and undergraduate GPA are. Try getting into a V5 firm with a 3.9 undergraduate GPA, a 171 LSAT, and a 3.4 from your 1L year at some second tier school that gave you a free ride. It's not going to happen.

In the eyes of biglaw, HYS > CLS, and that's the way it's going to stay for the foreseeable future.

63 - You LIE!

Had lunch today with a partner who was taking a group of us out to celebrate us passing the bar. He said that we had a 100% pass rate for our incoming class, but that anyone who had not passed would have been fired immediately.

116 = Vincent LaGuardia Gambini!

I'm going to make a slight--yes, slight--case for a T19ish classification.

Yes, T14 people, your schools have been T14 forever. At the same time, for the last decade, Texas, Vandy, USC, and UCLA have been rotating through spots 15-18, and it appears they haven't dropped out of that range.

So as long as the purpose of "T-whatever" terminology is to give a rough idea of where schools are located, it seems like one could use T19 as an adequate, albeit unsexy, descriptive tool as well.

137: More than the whole "haven't changed ranks" argument, the real point is that the T14 schools have a national reputation and the 15+ schools much less so. Texas, Vandy, USC, and UCLA have a lot more in common with 20s schools like GW, BC, BU, WashU, Notre Dame, etc. than they do with the bottom of the T14 (Northwestern, Cornell, and Georgetown). This is why there's no T19.

138 = obviously threatened GULC student, afraid of the fact GULC has been keeping ahead of whomever is #15 by a whopping one point for the last several years.

139: Wow, you're making me defend GULC... Let me be clear -- I dislike them a lot, think that they're the black sheep of the T14 -- an oversized degree factory, and hope that they drop in the rankings (might very well do so due to their part time program bringing them down).

That having been said, they unfortunately have a better reputation (justified or not) than any of the 15-20 ranked schools. Whether we like it or not, Georgetown is considered prestigious because of basketball, the proximity to DC, the politicians who went to the school, etc. I wish it weren't the case, but it is, a lot more so than Texas, Vandy, USC, and UCLA.

hey, does anybody happen to know why people always use "T14" as the cutoff? why T14 and not T15 or T20? I don't get it.

thanks,

T20 Alum

141: More important question, is your T20 school accredited by the ABA? I've heard that some T20 schools recently lost their accreditation and now, their students will be forced to sit for the baby bar before they can take the full one.

How can any '09 grads have been fired? None of them have even started working yet. This post is a little premature. Try asking again in early 2010.

T20, the "T14" cut off comes from autoadmit.

135 - What firm?

135 is full of shit.

i know a number of top firms who have first years/incoming associates who failed. all still have their jobs. only a wildly insecure mess of a firm would panic and get rid of someone for something so utterly meaningless to the long term career of an attorney.

145,

If the firm is looking to massacre first years, the bar failers will probably be on the list. Just ask every bar failer at Latham who wasn't the son of a partner.

But no, they don't deserve to be canned, aside from the legacy who never should've been hired in the first place. That's why firms that aren't so horribly managed that they need to fire 60% of the first year class typically give you two shots. People fail for a number of reasons and it shouldn't ruin anyone's life.

129 = Fail.

Look who gets into the graduate programs. It is disproportionately middle class African Americans who are represented in law schools, not the poor students who'd matriculated at sub-par undergraduate institutions. To throw your own words back in your face, "[e]ducate yourself before you go sourcing statistics w/out qualifications."

America also does better when you get the fuck out.

Not 80

I know someone who failed the bar and his employer a, mid sized firm, let him go the next day.

Only middling to crappy firms will let first year associates go for failing the bar once. It shows poor firm management and firms will be loathe to admit that they have incompetent leadership.

149 is worried about his job...

true.

I think we are actually going to start in January. Wow.

147 FTW!!!!

149

Bob Dell's ears are burning

I'd bang the picture chick...and Kash.

Class of '08 had it so much easier, '07 even more so. '09 probably the worst and '10 is yet to be seen. Unfair really how much was just pure timing.

This needs to be said; if you fail the bar, you should be fired. The bar is a test of basic legal understanding. If you cannot pass it, a firm should let you go. You don't have the requisite legal understanding to work in law.

116 = Elie

156: Tell that to all the 08ers who got Lathamed. Or, the 10ers who couldn't get any decent job because of the downturn. The damage has already been done to the laid off 08ers and the 10ers who lost their 2L summer opportunity.

156 -- I am pretty sure '10 has it worse than '09 in terms of amount of job offers available in BigLaw. At my firm, the summer class was much smaller this year than last, and next year's will be even smaller. That, and the perks over the summer vanished compared to previous years.

The people on here criticizing those who've failed are completely pathetic. You really need to find a new way to make yourselves feel better than kick others while they're down. And, ELIE, your wording in this post is sooo lame...almost goading employers into laying off those who've failed in a pathetic and (once again misguided) attempt to make ATL interesting again. To those who failed, good luck next time around. To those throwing stones, stop anonymously posting negative comments on a legal blog -- and go get a girlfriend, or a job, or a life.

161, sounds like you are "playing a crazy game o poker." hee hee. I LOVE O.A.R. simply love them. -- Lovey Jones.

I'm not sure we've seen the bottom in terms of which class year had it worse.

'07 and '08 had no trouble getting jobs, but now many of them are in fear of being laid off (and many already have).

'09 had only a little trouble getting jobs, but are largely getting deferred and many firms oversubscribed their classes in retrospect.

'10 had more trouble getting jobs, but if they got them firms were better prepared with numbers. Deferral also seems like it will be common.

'11 had a lot of trouble getting jobs, but if they managed to land them seem safe.

Obviously not enough has occured for us to see what the full fallout of this is. In a couple years when (if?) the economy picks up, many of these folks will find biglaw jobs if they choose since firms will be frequently understaffed.

I went to law school at U. of Texas because it is in Austin (enough said) and it is (relatively speaking), very cheap for an in-state student. I wasn't all that sold on the whole "being a lawyer" thing, so it turned out to be a highly enjoyable and cost efficient way of attaining a law degree that would get my a good job (which it did).

As for the whole T14 idiocy, Texas (or UCLA) will eventually crack the T14. Oh, the horror. Anarchy will reign. Cats and dogs, living together.....

FAR more importantly, I think Texas can take either Bama or Florida. Not saying it wouldn't be a good game or anything, just saying I think the SEC is a little over-hyped this year.

How about asking about those in the class that could not even sit for the bar exam due to failing the MPRE, or missing the registration deadline for the MPRE? I know of two of those that still have jobs. The mind reels.

165, you can sit for the bar even if you have not yet passed the MPRE. You just need to pass both to be licensed.

If people didn't take the bar yet because they had failed the MPRE, they are idiots for other reasons.

I freaked out the night before the exam. I didn't sleep for a single minute and thought I was going to pass-out while waiting on the line to sign in for two hours that morning. I seriously thought I wasn't going to be able to do it.

167, that's what happens...

It's not a "hard" exam. People who fail: (a) are stupid, (b) didn't take it seriously, or (c) freaked themselves out the day before, night before, or of the exam.

Takers who fall into (b) or (c) usually figure out their stuff and pass the test the next time. People in group (a) are the ones who retake it 4 or 5 times (or more) trying to eek out a score of 667.

165 - I missed the MPRE deadline in law school because I was busy having a good time, taking a few interesting 3L classes and hooking up with the types of skanks that eventually marry dorks like you once they've added a few pounds and decided to settle down.

That didn't keep me from taking the bar, taking a one-day break from my post-bar trip to study for the MPRE, and passing both.

The mind reels.

168 - only someone who was really worried about passing would say something like "eek out a 667". I have no clue what my grand total was, but I got a 180 on the MBE and that was more than good enough obviously. I still didn't call other people stupid for failing.

166: Depends on the state. For example, you can't sit for the MA bar until you first pass the MPRE. This has led to people last minute taking the MPRE, failing, and then having to put off taking the bar for another six months.

I guess that's the sort of stupidity one would expect from Taxachussetts.

170, I don't know what sort of insecurity prompts people to lie about their MBE scores anonymously online. Only about 2% of test-takers even get above 170, and only a handful around the country get over 180. The vast majority of takers get between 135 and 160. If you're gonna lie anonymously over the internet, at least do it realistically.

That reminds me of last July when I took the bar. I had a friend that claimed to have gotten a 192 on the MBE. Turned out (unsurprisingly) that that was higher than ANYONE in the country actually got. Heh.

Well the t14 rewards the earlier less than
analytical US rankings--based on a predominantly lazy east coast circular reasoning--circle jerk.

Why was Cal down to what 12
a few years ago and than a deus ex machina--lifted it to 6.

Yes Alumni donations is a critical dimension of any legal education. And reputation as well--is so objective.

The finer the distinction the more arbitrary and useless the rankings. Tweak a factors arbitrary weight--arguendo said factor is even relevant--and
a different distribution.

Said t-14 arguments fail: national reach most students from UCLA/SC--guess what--want
to live in a balmy quasi-Meddit. climate. Does this explain the lack of geographical reach Sherlock?

Kill your Gods--the ranking gods are dead--reason has killed them.

C