Breaking: Cravath Bonuses Are Out (and Down)
Year-end bonuses have been announced at the market-leading firm of Cravath, Swaine & Moore. And they are even lower than last year’s Cravath bonuses.
But look, this is 2009. Welcome to the Great Recession. Your true bonus is: you get to keep your job. That shouldn’t be taken for granted, even at Cravath.
Anyway, here’s the Cravath bonus scale for 2009 (via the WSJ Law Blog):
Class of 2008 — $7,500
Class of 2007 — $10,000
Class of 2006 — $15,000
Class of 2005 — $20,000
Class of 2004 — $25,000
Class of 2003 — $30,000
Class of 2002 — $30,000
Cravath’s bonus announcement is always important because the market tends to follow Cravath — as it did last year. Skadden’s 2008 bonuses, at roughly twice Cravath’s levels, were ignored.
Could this year be different? Are the Cravath bonus levels low enough such that a firm of similar or even lower prestige will try to better CSM? Or will other Biglaw shops simply avail themselves of the political cover provided by Cravath — which is arguably what happened last year, when Skadden’s generous bonuses went unmatched (excluding Wachtell)?
So, readers, what do you think? Read the FULL MEMO, take a READER POLL, and COMMENT — after the jump.
UPDATE: A commenter helpfully posted this side-by-side comparison of the 2008 and 2009 bonus amounts:
Year — 2008 — 2009
1st - $17.5K - $7.5K
2nd - $20K - $10K
3rd - $22.5K - $15K
4th - $25K - $20K
5th - $27.5K - $25K
6th - $30K - $30K
7th - $30K - $30K
Ed. note: For seventh-year associates (and above), some firms paid $32,500. Cravath’s scale topped out at $30,000 (and we’ve corrected the commenter’s table to reflect that).
Below please find the text of the complete memo, plus a reader poll.
CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE LLP — MEMORANDUM — YEAR-END BONUSES
November 2, 2009
We are pleased to announce that the year-end bonus amount for each associate class is as follows:
Class of 2008 — $7,500
Class of 2007 — $10,000
Class of 2006 — $15,000
Class of 2005 — $20,000
Class of 2004 — $25,000
Class of 2003 — $30,000
Class of 2002 — $30,000
Bonuses will be paid on Friday, December 11. Absent special circumstances (approved by the Managing Partners), an associate must still be at the Firm on December 11 to be eligible for the bonus. The Firm does not apply any billable hour or similar criteria in determining eligibility for associate bonuses. As always, while receipt of the bonus for each individual attorney is dependent on suitable performance at that attorney’s experience level, virtually all of our associates will receive the full bonus.
To be eligible for a bonus, an associate must have been employed at the Firm prior to
September 1, 2009. Attorneys who are working part-time will receive a pro-rated portion
of the applicable class-level bonus. Bonuses for special associates, discovery attorneys,
foreign associates and senior attorneys will be determined on an individual basis.
We thank you for your hard work and dedication throughout 2009.
E. R. Chesler
C. A. Parker
S. C. Goldstein
S. A. Barshay
‘Tis the Season: Cravath Kicks off Associate Bonus Period [WSJ Law Blog]
Cravath Bonuses Are Out, and They are Lower than Last Year [Am Law Daily]
Earlier: Associate Bonus Watch: Cravath Offers Less Than Skadden
Stealth Layoff Watch: Laid Off Cravath Associates Will Not Be Ignored
(206) Comments
Comments
wahoo a breaking story without a story
What a paltry sum.
A little late on this ATL.
Zeroth
'bout time.
oh no! this is huge BREAKING news! in other BREAKING news, Latham laid off first years.
-nervous T-10 2L
How does this affect me?
-unemployed t20 magna grad
Elie-
Too busy stuffing your gullet to actually write a story to go with this?
44 minutes after WSJ.
43 minutes after XO.
No coverage, just a link.
Plus, Lat parachuted in to cover Elie.
Bang-up work.
These associates just got ShaFeefed. Hard.
xoxo is prob the fastest source fwiw
So what did Fried Frank do to make you guys take down the Jonathan Mechanic story?
7 -
Who cares (other than you and your mom)?
No comments about 1/4 Skadden? These bonus levels are a slap in the face
is that meager or is that meager.
better than i had been hoping for. a lot of associates will be lucky to get this much.
LOL Lat keeps editing the post trying to make it less shitty.
Attempt 1: just the link to get the news "out there" with a time stamp.
Attempt 2: report the bonuses with a "what do you think?" inviting someone else to do the leg work.
Attempt 3: a stunningly unoriginal "poll" of how "happy" you are with the bonuses.
Keep it up! 10th time's the charm!
9 - XO sucks donkey balls. I can't bear to read that site.
If I get this shit, I'm out. Fire the low performers and reward the top money makers....
Don't forget, you likely have to bill 2200+ hours to even sniff these amounts ... what a deal!!
these are pretty good bonuses. having received a good many in my time, I can tell
Ladies and Gentlemen, Elie Mystal!!!! So bad at his job that his boss has to keep fixing things for him. First that Bat Debacle, now taking almost an hour to copy and paste a link to another story AND Lat having to actually write the story. I'm sorry but Lat it is time to fire Elie for good. Elie you are a walking advertisement for why Affirmative Action is a crappy policy, because this is the work product you get.
NJ Bar Results?????
Is there a minimum number of hours to get the bonus? I.e. you have to bill at least 2200, meaning that most associates won't even get these small sums? Heh, I hope so, since even the smallest is larger than my bonus.
--bitter 4YA
There's a NJ Bar Exam?
Hey, way to not acknowledge that this also appeared here before ATL:
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/11/breaking-cravath-bonuses-are-out-and-they-are-lower-than-last-year.html
Cravath’s a bunch of cheapskates. $5 says Skadden doubles this.
All of the West Coast firms that purport to have money (I’m looking at you, Orrick, Latham and Paul Hastings) ought to me more than doubling these numbers, since they froze pay this year while Cravath did not, and since they won’t give the bonus to everyone (hours threshold).
22,
Elie sucks not because he is black (that's racist), but because he is fat, and fat people are lazy (perfectly acceptable generalization).
The ship be sinking...
Dear Lat,
Did you just cut-and-paste my siren? That's my schtick. Cease and Desist immediately.
Matt Druge.
stealth layoffs have been going on since the summer
No Cravattth this year Lat?
Texas bar results are out.
Waah, where is my Class of 2009 bonus?
stealth layoffs have been going on since the summer
This is still a good deal. Note that Cravath is paying out bonuses, _to everyone_, on December 11. My firm will still be trying cut my salary for 2010 on December 11, and probably won’t actually pay the 10 associates who will hit hours their bonuses until March.
Evan Chesler is soooooo sexy. I would let him pop my cherry.
D. Lat
Why does Cravath even bother to list class of 2002 bouneses in this economy? What, the class of 2002 must be the 4 people they will make partner this year? Everyone one else from that class year is long gone by now.
So you don't have to hunt for the side-by-side
Year 2008 2009
1st $17.5K $7.5K
2nd $20K $10K
3rd $22.5K $15K
4th $25K $20K
5th $27.5K $25K
6th $30K $30K
7th $32.5K $30K
will the nj bar ever come out?
2002 is getting screwed. Same bonus as 2003. what gives?
Not in D.C. 28. I was informed that you can't discriminate against someone based on their appearance under D.C. law. Can this be true?
I concur with CSM's management decision to adopt this bonus structure. In this economy, associates should be thankful to get a paycheck. Anything else is truly a bonus. While it is true that anything below $20K is a meager sum, it is still a bonus. While on the subject of salaries and bonuses, I had a brief exchange with "Ronny," my building's doorman, this morning. Ronny claims to earn a six figure salary plus tips. He works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week with 2 weeks paid vacation. Ronny also mentioned that at the age of 26, he has no student loans and lives in Bergen County, New Jersey, which I understand is an affluent county. I then told Ronny how he was living better than most attorneys and Ronny replied "with all due respect, but what kind of idiot would take out $80K of student loans to become an unemployed ambulance chaser?" With that quip, I tipped Ronny $50 and told him that he is a lot smarter than he appears. So you see kids, there are high school graduates living a better life in a dignified blue collar setting. And to boot, Ronny doesn't have Sallie Mae calling him every day. That is all for now.
Well if you survived the stone cold stealth layoffs at Cravath, then I guess whatever they give is good enough. Meh.
This may be the only time I've ever been curious to hear PE's take. Is Cravath a peer firm? Is this sufficiently tough love? I want to know.
Peanuts!
Who moved my $160k?
As someone who left BIGLAW associate slavery for small plaintiff's firm partnership, I can't help but laugh. I'll admit I was jealous when the 07 bonuses came out because back then I didn't pull that kind of money.
Now I see (senior) associates with a $210/230/250 base and a $30k bonus, bringing total comp to a max of $280 for that level.
My own base draw may not be as high as BIGLAW mid level to senior associates, but the total comp blows them out of the water. Hell the total comp is more than many biglaw partners. And I don't have to worry about job security or whether my firm will implode like Thelen.
wow.
sorry, cravath lawyers.
-1st Year Wachtell Associate (who will make 4x Cravath 7th year bonuses)
As someone who left BIGLAW associate slavery for small plaintiff's firm partnership, I can't help but laugh. I'll admit I was jealous when the 07 bonuses came out because back then I didn't pull that kind of money.
Now I see (senior) associates with a $210/230/250 base and a $30k bonus, bringing total comp to a max of $280 for that level.
My own base draw may not be as high as BIGLAW mid level to senior associates, but the total comp blows them out of the water. Hell the total comp is more than many biglaw partners. And I don't have to worry about job security or whether my firm will implode like Thelen.
50 = EPIC FAIL.
Has Marshall Dennehey's Fishtown office released bonus figures yet?
51 is just jealous.
Poor lawyers.
Bwwwwwaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!
This is a terrible sign. If you work anywhere, don't expect anything good. You may bill 2300 hours and get a $15k bonus as a mid-level.
53 = 51.
This is definitely the beginning of the end of Cravath.
cravatttttttttth
taking bets on what bonus the "discovery attorneys" will receive. mine's $0
51 = roxana
Cravath: now quite obviously not worth it.
this is a joke. If any other firms come out above them, they'll cease to be thought of as any sort of "market leader."
17 - Lat's method is what the Associated Press does. First a headline, then an abbreviated story, then a full story.
If ATL isn't speedy enough for you, then don't read it. There are lots of other great sites out there.
PE:
As I have said many times before, you are seriously out of material. How long can you continue your schtick that going to law school was stupid, we missed the boat, blah blah.
Get some new material you putz, you're a real putz
I cravathed in my pants a when I saw this. It wasnt like a little juicy cravath. It was a full blown cravath that filled my boxers and ran down my leg. Holy cravath this sucks.
I cravathed in my pants a when I saw this. It wasnt like a little juicy cravath. It was a full blown cravath that filled my boxers and ran down my leg. Holy cravath this sucks.
33- NOT COOL, DUDE
this is pretty funny
Cravath is falling in the Vault rankings next year, for sure.
26 - Scroll down, that link is at the end of the post. (But WSJ gets a bigger shout-out because they broke the news.)
This is my first visit to the site in awhile. I'm amazed that PE is still posting. Seriously, what an effing loser. Get a life.
Is there a bonus for support staff? If attys are walking with 7,500 I bet support staff gets something even funnier. Who wants a free turkey? Really? No one? But I said free.....
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
is the misery worth it, cravaTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTH associates?
This comment is addressed to post no. 64.
As anyone who practiced law during the golden ages of the 70s and to a greater extent, the 80s, can attest to, you missed the boat by a generation. There is no need to feel resentful towards me because I practiced during that prosperous time. Think of my posts as public service announcements. Kids are getting ripped off by institutions dispensing worthless degrees and here you are being critical of me when you should be getting on your knees and thanking whatever entity you worship (if you are not a heathen) that I am here to remind you that it would not be in your best interest to pursue a dream that has been long dead. If you disregard my advice, be prepared to live a life riddled in penury, failure and chronic depression.
You BigLaw guys aren't worth it, period. You suck dicks, eat shit, and take it up the ass, all so you can collect a BigLaw paycheck. Well, the firms own you, and you be the slaves. For you Afro-American types, welcome home Carter.
With bonuses like that, next year's cravath associate class will come exclusively from Cooley and Florida Coastal.
I am so glad that I dont work at Cravath, Heller, and Moore.
PE:
Thank you for responding. I wholeheartedly disagree with your advice. We did not miss the boat. The law is a great profession. If you put all your eggs in one basket, i.e; biglaw only, then yes, you may/may not have missed the boat.
However, there is still so much opportunity out there to have a brilliant career. I passed the Bar exam recently, and it was one of the best days of my life, just next to the day I graduated law school (just months earlier). I have a job at a small firm and I make a decent salary. I have friends and I have family. I can honeslty say that I have earned respect from so many people that I truly feel great.
Yes, I will be paying back my loans for sometime. Whatever, I love being a lawyer, I love puting Esq after my name, I love coming to my law firm everyday, I love saying I graduated law school, I love walking into the courthouse, I love meeting "opposing counsel" I love talking to clients, I love when my friends call me counselor, I love knowing that they just fucked up on law and order, I love crushing a legal argument, I love disecting a court opinion, etc etc
So PE, I do not take your advice.
Ha! DLA pwns Cravath when bonus time comes around. Suck on that prestige-whores!
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/10/dla_piper_previews_the_2009_bo.php
Wow .... what a colossal fall from grace.
This would never happen at Locke Lord Houston.
The Drudge alert graphic will never stop being funny
63--the AP's model is for breaking news, not hour-old news. If you're that late to the game, you can afford to spend 3 minutes to craft a post.
31, 35, and 44 are right. Here is a link:
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/06/stealth_layoff_watch_laid_off.php
Cravath should be ranked below Skadden, Weil, and STB. They are sinking hard and fast.
Just keep telling yourself that, 78
If other firms match, what will they give class of 2009? a $20 gift certificate to starbucks?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . BIG Law: you LOSE. Big time. Particularly the more senior associates, who have lost their legal youth , for no reason. Bonus payouts at regional firms are way higher. And the salaries are closer together now as well.
All ego and insecurity, and nothing to show for it.
You lose.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
NYC BIGLAW IS FOR LOSERS! williamsconnolly effectively pays a 20k bonus to first years (180k base), and covington usually pays more than cravattth's 7.5k. plus, associates at these firms don't have to live in the hell hole that is NYC. when you factor in COL and taxes, DC associates at the top firms probably make about 50k more than NY lawyers, for fewer hours. if i were a ny lawyer, i'd join the army and go to Iraq = better pay, better hours.
Can someone please make a schtick out of 78, the overly earnest eager beaver?
What is a 'bonus'?
This SUCKS. I sure hope that my small NYC regional firm boss does not read ATL - I am fucked if he does.
- TTT '09 graduate expecting a raise to 90K on Dec.1
THEY FUCK YOU AT THE DRIVE THROUGH.
Ahem, would you like fries with that?
new first years (class of 2009) get nothing? That sucks even more than the low sums more senior associates are getting.
cravath is obviously on the decline. I hope this year we see some separation among firms, with the healthier firms giving bigger bonuses than this.
I don't think you sould get to use the breaking siren when you don't break the story. See WSJ.
Does anyone have information about what the hours-threshold is at Cravath to obtain these bonuses? And, more importantly, what are the bonus-amounts were for successive tiers of hours worked? (E.g., if this is the base for 2100. What does a first-year who worked 2300 get?)
32, is that true? Are the Texas results really out? They are not posted on the BLE website yet...
Cravath has also been stealthing associates over the past 6 months.
95: No hour threshold--though I imagine if you bill very little, you get no bonus. And no reward for billing more than average either. 3000 hours gets the same bonus as 1500 hours.
CRAVATH sucks. seriously. F**K you cravath and your stu*id associates. Sooooo second tier.
How is this any different than freezing salaries? It's the same number for first and second years, just occuring at the end of this year instead of beginning of the year.
95, Cravath pays the same bonus to everyone regardless of how many hours worked. Period. This isn't Kirkland, Sidley, or pretty much any place not HQ'd in NYC where you get rewarded for your number of hours.
This is lockstep bonuses. You get em pretty much no matter what* and you don't get any reward for being at 2000, 2500, or 3000.
*fn: The memo does say that if you were really bad you might not get a bonus, but I think that is a you're fired and on the way out sort of thing, not a you only billed 1500 hours thing (although those two things might be related).
CRAVATH sucks. seriously. F**K you cravath and your stu*id associates. Sooooo second tier.
CRAVATH sucks. seriously. F**K you cravath and your stu*id associates. Sooooo second tier.
Skadden still wipes the ass of Cravath every day after lunch.
86,
Give me my $20 Starbucks gift certificate! I need Frappuccinos!
- 34 (Class of 2009)
I love ann beth stebbins, but she hearts arcanus.
95: No hour threshold--though I imagine if you bill very little, you get no bonus. And no reward for billing more than average either. 3000 hours gets the same bonus as 1500 hours.
This proves it. Cravath is a first tier toilet.
I would rather Lat pound me in the ass with one of Mystal's walrus tusks than work at Cravath.
Skadden Secure
7.5k for working 80-100 weeks? hahahahahhahahha, I know people who sell payroll that get bigger year end bonuses than that. Stop being a slave to biglaw and open up your own firm to make real money.
Cravath's bonuses are pathetic. $7,500 after taxes equals zilch. Why bother giving them at all?
the problem with skadden is that they don't give bonuses to all, just over 1800 hours, but what the F**** i have sooo much bloody hours more than that. CRAVATH SUCKS.
I shaved my balls for this?
WOW - I'm having a higher bonus working for a local firm in Latin America...
I think I got a higher bonus when I was a paralegal.
I wonder if this is really the new bonus bar or not. For example, when my T100 firm froze our salaries they sent around a memo that said that total compensation shouldn't be affected for top associates. With that said, there is no hard and fast hours requirement this year in order to be bonus eligible. I still hope that at least the top 10% or so of the billers will be rewarded with a bonus equal to this Cravath number plus at least the amount that the firm, in effect, reduced our salary by when they didn't give us an annual raise.
Thoughts?
I'm a real Skadden associate, so here's the real story. SA is going to pay triple the bonuses they paid last year, plus allow all associates to leave at half pay, up to three months, during 2010. I'm going to travel for the full three months.
S&C memo is out! 17.5k!
PE,
If you truly feel that you are warning everyone about staying away from the legal profession, then why do you post on a website that is read by lawyers and law students. Spend your time posting on pre-law websites.
And if your doorman is really making 6 figures plus, he's doing more than opening doors. He's probably up in your apartment personally servicing you for a hefty fee.
I would rather Lat pound me in the ass with one of Mystal's walrus tusks than work at Cravath.
Skadden Secure
I really hope that these bonuses reflect the fact that Cravath has had a bad year. These would be pathetic bonuses for those v10 firms that have done well in 2008. V10 firms in good shape need to realize that recruiters are calling us again. A $10,000 bonus for a 2007 grad that has been working hard all year would be very disappointing. And, frankly, it would be infuriating to watch bonuses get cut in half AGAIN while PPP goes up AGAIN (if that's the case).
We definitely appreciate working at well-managed firms that have survived the recession nicely, but we still expect to benefit from the fact that we've been working harder than associates at other firms in town.
The economy is recovering, we have hours and we're tired of getting shafted in December.
--v10 3rd year
48/50 - what firm?
I'm at a Plaintiffs' shop and the senior associates here are making (with bonuses) 280-300k.
But it seems to me that all Plaintiff Securities Class Action firms are in decline at the moment (fewer suits filed this year than last). What are you seeing?
118, lol.
Except for associates in the Bankruptcy department, everyone should be getting steak knives this year.
Coffee's for closers!
93 you gotta be f'ing kidding.
associates at the top banks / funds will walk away with record bonuses
damn it must be an awful thing to work at cravath etc
When I was in private practice, the possibility of getting $20k as a bonus from my V60 firm was non-existent. So even though these numbers are low, I would have been thrilled to have a $10k bonus.
So basically such low bonuses (well, for the junior associates I don't think 30K is low lol) reward those who didnt bill a lot of hours and are thus ineligible for bonuses (at firms where there is a minimum for bonus eligibility, unlike Cravath per the memo above). Those guys are probably thinking no biggie who cares if I don't get 10K after a year of fearing loss of jobs etc.. Meanwhile those associates who did bill big numbers get a bare bones bonus for working hard in an off year.
112 - that is incorrect. At Skadden, if you bill over 1600 hours, you get a full bonus. Under 1600 hours and your bonus may be paid on a discretionary basis.
note to wannabe lawyers: firms like this Cravath only interview from the top 10 percent or so of all law school grads, meaning those from the top 20 schools who did well, and maybe a very few top students from lesser schools.
Does Drudge have some sort of trademark/trade dress infringement claim against Lat?
hope all you people worked nice and hard all year long for your very huge bonuses. haaaaahahaaaa
131 - no, "gay conservative journalist" is not subject to trademark protection. Cf. Shepard Smith.
Fuck Cravath!!!!
I believe the side-by-side comparison posted by 39 and added to ATL's site is off by one class year on the "2008 Bonus" side.
According to Cravath memos, Class of 2003 actually seems to be grossing $2,500 more each in bonuses than in 2008. Class of 2004 is getting the same as last year, as are the Class of 2002 and those more senior.
It should look more like this...
Year — 2008 — 2009
2008- $17.5K (prorated) - $7.5K (prorated)
2007- $17.5K - $10K
2006- $20K - $15K
2005- $22.5K - $20K
2004- $25K - $25K
2003- $27.5K - $30K
2002- $30K - $30K
2001- $30K - ...
let's not ignore the fact that csm culls its summers from such choice schools as st. john's, fordham, w&m, gwu, and on and on and on...
135 -- you are retarded.
#135 is right. The chart was off by one year. The only corfrection should be that Class of 2008 will not be pro rated this year.
Does anyone know about Colt Wallerstein bonus levels?
"st. john's, fordham, w&m, gwu"
one of these things is not like the others
Count your blessings. At least you don't work at K&L Gates. Their bonus schedule is absolutely pathetic. Not one associate at K&L has any idea what their bonus will be this year (if any). And thats not just because of the economy. It has always been like that. They hide everything about associate compensation from associates. I know people who have been associates there for 5 years, have met or exceeded their hours each year, and have never received a bonus. So the Cravath bonus schedule looks pretty good to a K&L attorney.
WOW this is shocking, especially considering that several firms are rumored to be giving out bonuses bigger than last year's... not 2007 levels, but still. Holy shit, this is terrible for Cravath folks, I feel bad for you.
The Cravatholypse is upon us!
Oh hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they try to pull this shit at my firm, I will be pissed!!! Our corporate dept is FUCKING SLAMMED and as far as I can tell litigation is busy-ish too. Either Cravath is literally dying before our eyes, or the Cravath partners are milking this "recession" bone dry. I am so not kidding, if my firm matches this, I will go ape shit.
Very nice article. Thanks for the great tips!
http://www.symptomscancerof.com/cancer-lawsuit/
142, name firms that will exceed 2008? Especially after this
how in the world do firm's expect to get attract top talent when they offer i.e. $15k as a bonus for a third-year who may have billed 2400 hours at a time when places like GSax are announcing record bonuses? why the hell didn't i go to business school? this is unbelievable.
how in the world do firm's expect to attract top talent when they offer i.e. $15k as a bonus for a third-year who may have billed 2400 hours at a time when places like GSax are announcing record bonuses? why the hell didn't i go to business school? this is unbelievable.
148, no shit, I will hit at least 2200 hours no fucking problem, and I'm sure it will be closer to 2400. And yet the fucking blood sucking partners are going to own my ass with this shit. Seriously, a banker friend of a friend said to me this weekend, "Lawyers are incredible losers. You work 95% of our hours and get 30% of the pay. You are a punk son." He said, that, "you are a punk, son." I am 3 inches taller than him and 20lbs heavier, and he talked to me like I was his bitch. And now I see why. I swear to God, I am going to quit and then rat out every little horrible detail about my firm to this site.
Actually... there were some other firms, beyond Skadden and Wachtel, that paid bigger bonuses. But its like like we'd expect ATL to know anything about.. law firm bonuses..
Wow the paid employees at the NFP I work at as a deferred associate get bonuses bigger than this.
141 -
No offense, but a paid babysitting gig should look pretty good to a K&L attorney. The fact that you compare yourself to any tier 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 firm should occur no more frequently than you compare your city softball team to the Yankees.
What is the rush? It is hard to understand why Cravath did not wait until December.
Cravath bakes wipe my ass with this bonus beneath a classic. Does wipe my ass with this bonus advance? Beside the yearly void matures the chief insight. When can her conductor choose? A strength swallows! Cravath suffers.
A woman drags the motivating holder underneath the damned. The wombat learns bonus. How does its chat rest the mysterious overtone? Why does Cravath boggle before the juice?
CRAVATH ANNOUNCED NOW TO BE FIRST.
WHY? BECAUSE THEY KNOW 95% OF OTHER FIRMS WILL MATCH THEM LIKE LAST YEAR.
HENCE IF THEY COME OUT THE GATES FIRST AND LOW, THEY ARE ASSUMING THAT 99% OF OTHER FIRMS WILL FOLLOW.
THEY ASSUME THEY ARE CRAVATH, THEY ARE THE "BEST", EVERYONE WANTS TO BE THEM. THEY'RE ELITIST AND FULL OF SHIT AND THIS JUST PROVES IT. I BET PPP DON'T GO DOWN HERE.
ANY FIRM THAT SURPASSES THIS SHOWS WHO RUNS THEMSELVES AND DOESN'T RELY ON OTHER FIRMS TO FOLLOW SUIT.
THIS IS PATHETIC.
Shit 156, I haven't seen something this hard to read since the last warranty waiver provision I reviewed 5 minutes ago.... Take it easy with the CAPS LOCKS!
155 cries next to a timed deaf. 155 graduates throughout the rat. How does the best post appear? When will the best post skip beneath 155?
I hope firms will move to hours-based bonuses this year. It is unfair to shaft everyone, when some people are still billing 2200+ hours.
Well that's great.That's just fuckin' great, man. Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty shit now man.
Watch associate attrition skyrocket next year and become a problem again. The economy as a whole might suck still next year but firms in NYC by and large service the financial services industry not the economy as a whole. And that's who they lose their associates to.
The file name of that flashing siren:
"animated siren gif animated siren gif animated siren gif drudge report.gif"
Jesus Christ, Lat, at least change the file name.
149, the banks compensation is all coming from taxpayer (even if indirectly). Their labor certainly isn't worth what they are paid for it.
CravaTTTh is going to get pwned by Skadden AGAIN!
WOW! Now this is pathetic. Everyone knows Cravath is hurting, but this is really something!
Cravath has huge incoming classes, deferrals (unlike most other Vault 10 firms), and huge overhead thanks to the new office lease it stupidly signed right before the real estate bubble burst. PPP down over 20% (?) last year.
When will Skadden surpass Cravath on Vault? Cravath acts like it isn't even solvent anymore. Normally I'd think S&C would easily overtake Cravath, but S&C decided to fuck its associates last year despite having a near-record year for profitability, so I assume they'll do the same thing this time around.
Wow - a friend of mine at Cravath billed 400+ hours for a few months in a row now. It is incredible how badly paid corporate lawyers are, compared to others in the financial industry.
I really hope that some of the other top firms (Sullivan, DPW, Cleary) who have been doing so well step up and break away from this insult. Honestly, if you get a 10K bonus after billing 2800 hours (destroying your marriage and working 120 days in a row non-stop), you really need to consider resigning and moving on to something else in life. That is just not sustainable or worth it anymore.
166,
S&C got hammered in the midlevel associate survey, the summer associate survey, and Vault, so maybe that will motivate them.
There are whispers in the halls at s&c about increased profitability this year, even better than 2008 where PPP numbers all but held steady from 2007-the best year on record.
Not that shenker will let one thin dime of that slide into the pockets of the associates who worked their assess off so that the too-overburdened-to-competently-handle-even-half-their-workload partners would be able to earn even a fraction of what they did for 2009.
They fucked us on the insulting 'supplemental' bonus, and they fucked us last december. Just because they can, they're about to fuck us again.
166 -- What kind of junior or midlevel associate is stupid enough to be married? Marriage is for closers, and not something anybody can afford to do until they're at least 40. Wake up, man.
For the love of god... everybody is officially fucked this year.
They're one of the few firms that was very busy throughout this poor economy, and their partners use it as an opportunity to screw their associates and pocket some cash. Such greed...
liking private hudson and 65/66. jesus people, we're in a recession. Cravath remains, Latham remains - it isn't the end of anything, just a lean period. unfortunately for many of you, PE is right, not about the golden age being over, but about first and second years being expendable. when most of you are lucky to have jobs, what kind of market does that set up for bonuses? you think the partners are going to sacrifice unit value one more dime so you can get an extra 10k? the good news is that things are much busier than a year ago, and we've already turned the corner. the 2010 bonus period should be much more interesting, and much more generous.
well the world needs ditch diggers too
It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another.
The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.
cravath should have at least move to business casual in conjunction with announcing these bonuses, considering their associates will no longer be able to afford the men's wearhouse.
Flipping burgers is not much different from flipping officer's certificates. No?
I'm a bankruptcy attorney who just cracked 2200 billables for the year. If the bonuses are anything like Cravath scale, I'll quit the day after they're paid, have interviews lined up the day after that, and a new job a week after that. What a joke for those of us still billing in excess of three times our salary.
S&C will be stupid to follow these shit bonuses. Not that I think that will stop them. It is dropping in Vault rankings. There is no associate morale. Recruiting at S&C is terrible (as usual). And Wall St. has turned a corner in terms of profitability -- and it is Wall St. that poaches associates not manufacturing in the midwest. But watch that greedy fucking shark Shenker take full advantage of Cravath being in trouble to shoot S&C in the foot.
Cravath can suck it.
We were supposed to vote CSM #99 but no one listened. Can we get it right this time?
For the juniors, this is effectively a pay freeze. The salaries should be based in part on how much money we bring in, and I know that they're not freezing the billing rates in conjunction with this salary freeze.
If this is what happens at my firm, it's just unacceptable. Too many of us have been working too hard this year. I know the firm is doing well--partners have told me. We have sacrificed a lot this year. Frankly, this bonus scale would be insulting. MUTINY.
this just underscores the MYTH of cravath and nyc biglaw prestige. REALLY successful law students go to exclusive boutiqyes like susman, wachtell, w&c, etc. cravath is for the mediocre moron who got into hls b/c he did really well on the lsat and then typed really fast on the torts final -- and that's it.
Any word on MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY?
I bet you small, exclusive litigation shops like W&C, Irell, Susman, etc. will all DESTROY this bonus scale this year.
Am I the only one to remember that in last year's memo on bonuses Cravath said it was even unlikely that associates would get any bonus year?
"Given the uncertainty of the economy and the business climate going forward, we will not be able to address the issue of whether there will be any year-end bonuses in 2009 until this time next year. However, associates should be prepared for the likelihood that the economy and the Firm's financial performance next year will not show a significant improvement over this year and they may receive significantly reduced or no year-end bonuses next year."
So things seem to be better than they expected. A sign of recovering?
@ 187;
ROFL, "a sign of recovering"
Rancid CravaTTTh trolling..
anyone ever met the finance guys at cravath? how much are those guys taking home?
You're all going to quit in response to this and then you're going to work where exactly? Another firm that pays the same? Or are you all going to work for banks?
187 = only sensible comment out of 190. Sensible comment hit rate on this thread = 0.526%.
@189 Finance guys are the same as anywhere. And yup, I bet they're taking home a bigger chunk than most associates will be.
Given this year, these numbers are responsible. In spite of those who got the boot for not performing, there have been no stealth layoffs, no salary cuts, etc. Cravath took a hit to its PPP last year, and probably will again this year, so it's not like the partners don't share the pain. The suckers who bitch about these numbers are lucky to have a job at all at their TTT firm.
193 = EPIC FAILURE IN LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
Cravath partners and associates should be embarrassed by these numbers and I for one hope that S&C or somebody else gives them even more reason to be embarrassed.
I work at an insurance defense shop in a small southern city and even my bonus will be significantly better this year than the equivalent year Cravath associate. Factor in the cost of living, and I'm also murdering them on actual total comp.
I remember a couple of years ago when they got 5 or 10 times what I did at the end of the year and could have killed myself for going to a state school with the promise of no debt. Now, my how the mighty have fallen.
The mighty are doing just fine, thank you.
I'm really impressed with all the big talk on this thread. Why not just quit your jobs right now? I'm sure you won't have any trouble at all landing new gigs.
Can Cravath attorneys choose not to be listed on the website? I've noticed the disappearance of several names of people I believe still work for the firm.
185 -- Anyone who knows McDermott can confidentily say that the firm is a market leader. I hear that JS and PS have met with the mgt and exec committees, and that McDermott will announce bonuses just shy of double Cravath.
Hey 78 -- sorry to break the news to you, but please don't put "Esq." after your own name in correspondence you are signing. It's an honorary title. It would be as though you were a judge and you signed your letters "Honorable 78." You just don't toot your own horn like that. Stop it for your own good. And also stop because other people resent it when lawyers try to puff themselves up like you apparently must. Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this matter.
what's with the not-so-subtle susman trolling?
Wish I'd met PE in late 2002.
To whom this may concern,
Please don't forget about the hardworking mothers at home who have had to give up childcare help due to the salary cuts and bonus cuts!
hard working mother here!
That is because Cravath is a dinosaur that refuses to update its business model. For example, they have brought in one of the best bankrtupcy lawyers in the country but refuse to give him free reign to build a debtor practice which is where the money is. They still subscribe to the view that debtor work is schlocky and not white shoe enough for Cravath and are only looking to dabble in some creditor work. Well, times change. Cravath's profits will be down this year. It is headed to the toilet.
204 -- You are lost but not forgotten. Also, STFU.