Why is this blog not covering the story about the winning costume at the University of Texas Law School Halloween party? This is a huge breaking story. I'm stunned that ATL hasn't covered it yet.

I dressed up as a Walrus this weekend and went trick or treating.

Elie Mystal

ah, America, land of the "free" and the home of the brainwashed

This is a BAD COSTUME IDEA, not a BAD IDEA COSTUME.

A bad idea costume would be to dress up as a solar powered flashlight, or a "for kids only - real live hand grenade!" toy. Those are bad ideas turned into a costume. This, however, was a costume, the EXECUTION of which was a bad idea.

My god . . . why did I have to write that?!?

I think that dressing in costume is what keeps this student a child . . . . That is, it keeps him in a state of "arrested development."

He should have gone to class as a preserved moose.

Awesome costume, kids these days = pussies

#1

BYU = "a catholic school"?

really??

Yet another example of people needing to take a god damned chill pill.

Yeah, we're not a Catholic school as it turns out. And I think "raid" is the wrong word--unless a campus police officer poking his head in the door's window and pointing at the offending student to ask him to leave the room for a brief moment can be called a "raid." (I go to BYU Law--Mormon, not Catholic).

The real question is did he have his magic underwear on underneath the SWAT uniform?

So, it's okay for a law student to dress up as a prostitute or a chainsaw killer, but not as a police officer? Brilliant.

The fact that this LDS law school is so strict that it makes students promise not to drink coffee, tea, and other such "sinful" caffeinated beverages should have tipped this kid off that this was not a good idea...

A more appropriate statement at the end would be, "Don't mess with Mormons."

don't be gullible

Nice.

Did he have the magic undies on under the SWAT gear?

Whatever happened, I hope we all agree that this BYU person was retarded in his costume selection. What a terrible, unfunny, uncreative little boy costume. This guy is a complete fucking loser. GI-JOE!!!

16

Beat you to it.

-11

The cave migrates into a nest. An intent star features Costume across a molecule. SWAT freezes Costume. SWAT mounts Costume. SWAT cheats in Costume. Should the computer sweep Costume?

Mormons killed Jesus.

11 - Yes, yes you did! This site posts comments and updates slower than a 90 year old hamster. Well played!

-16

Where is the accredidation guy regarding whether the mormon faith is legit?

If they wanted to know if the kid was going to cause any REAL trouble, why didn't they just ask some rocks in a top hat?

16

The over under on how many people don't understand the comment? I am going at least 60%

-11

The problem with cutting a police department's budget is that they can employ creative ways to deal with those cuts.

Is a walrus in black face racist?

Anyone else think of the ATHF Boston bomb scare when they read this?

If its not an American flag, its a security risk.

27,

Solid character, but please develop attendant schtick.

10, pretty sure Mormons is a distinct Catholic order, like the Jesuits or the Franciscan Oblates. You guys are the ones with the monks that make the good jams, right?

10 - Apparently they don't teach you how to use satire or hyperbole at BYU Law.

#1: BYU = Mormon School, NOT Catholic School

28 - I have used an attendant schtick with this guy, I've used it many times before. This post just doesn't afford an opportunity. Keep watching and you'll see it someday.

29, you're sitting on a gold mine. If you did not have a picture with trollface and the word "trollin" on it, you could have gotten a lot of mileage with this. Put some effort in and you could get like a 5/10 reaction easily.

Law student of the day:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2009/07/13/maxim-monday?test=faces

Its all good - one day this guy will rule his own planet, in his magic underwear.

- Holder of the Peep Stones

We need to bomb Halloween costumes back to the stoneage!
-DOJ Secure

Everyone knows Catholics wear magic underwear.

I'm a BYU Law student.

The police reaction was ridiculous - and resulted in a complaint against University Police from the visiting state AG who witnessed the whole thing. (Also, "armor belts" are found only on warships, but I don't expect better from journalists.)

Here's an eye witness report from a student:

"Here's the skinny: [STUDENT] came to our 8:00 am Criminal Procedure class dressed in a perfectly innocent "POLICE SWAT" costume that was obviously fake. He had bright orange water pistols in his holster, and bright yellow plastic fake shotgun casings in the ammunition belt. Some genius observed [STUDENT] walking into the JRCLB and called the University Police to see if there was a shooting. The Police reacted by searching the law building up and down, and eventually found [STUDENT] in our classroom listening to lecture from Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

"They pulled him out of class, dressed him down for being "insensitive", told him he was "lucky not to be arrested", and confiscated his costume. They also claimed that the informant described the SWAT Officer carrying an assault rifle and asked to search his bags, which he consented to. Finding that he did not have an assault rifle, they again asked where his weapons were and suspected he was concealing AN ASSAULT RIFLE somewhere. They also didn't believe the Law School was hosting a costume party since nobody else was dressed up at 8:00am. [NOTE: The law school's annual Halloween party took place later that day from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM, as it has on the Thursday before Halloween for the three years I've been here.]

"University Po-Pos don't see a lot of action, so any opportunity to create drama will not be ignored."

8, 10, 31, et al.
Please don't feed the trolls. TYIA.

4, 11, 16, 35 = IDIOTS! Enough said. My apologies to my friends at BYU Law School who have to put up with this bull &%#! on a daily basis.

40 - There are many other Catholic law schools and law students. They don't get offended so easily.

thank you 38.

Your counterparts at BYU on this thread have not been as gracious as you about this whole thing. defensive much?

"WE'RE MORMONS!!!" come on, people. we know.

22: Everyone knows it's not, so the "accredidation" folks don't waste their time.

The only strange thing about this story is that it happened in Utah, where a kid can actually be sent home from school for *not* carrying a concealed weapon.

40, do the students at BYU law really have to put up with religious persecution on a daily basis? I thought it was the Mormon students who DIDN'T go to BYU who really went through the fires.

As a Catholic myself who attended a Catholic undergrad, I would venture a guess that the students at BYU never hear a single question or critique about Mormonism

Do mormon police officers wear bullet proof vests? I would think that wearing a bullet proof vest would be anti-mormon, since Joe "I marry 16 year old girls" Smith said that their magic underwear would protect them.

The security guard was probably pissed off that the BYU student had a better uniform.

#44 - non-mormon at BYU here. If mormons are somewhere that they are minority, then they play up the persecution complex. If mormons are somewhere where they are the majority, then they like to bear down on the minority with their wrath. This is true.

I just recently found out that BYU charges a higher tuition for non-mormons. For a faith that fights to be classified as christian, this doesn't seem to be very christian. Aren't christians supposed to help all of god's children??? Does any other religious school discriminate based on religion?

I originally looked at BYU as a non-mormon.... but then I found out that, even if you're not mormon, it's against school policy to drink COFFEE there...

ridiculous.

47,

Disgusting.

Victimized blacks would never do such a thing.

40,

Why an apology? It's actually a true statement.

Hello.

We have analyzed the frequency and competency of trolling in this thread, and are now prepared to officially declare it a trollercoaster.

Please continue doing what you were doing.

52 - very nice

Joseph Smith = convicted felon

Joseph Smith = pedophile

For that matter Jesus was even convicted and executed. This church seems to be based on some shady characters.

It's stuff like this that makes me SO glad that I took BYU's cheap tuition as an undergrad and then left for a T14 law school. On top of this type of stuff, I can only imagine how bad students at BYU are doing in the current job market.

Dum dum dum dum dummmmmmm.

48, BYU Law's tuition for non-Mormons is still way cheaper than any other private school and most public schools too.

48, yeah, I have to agree with 59. Your critique is a cheap shot. BYU's tuition (whether for Mormons or non-Mormons) is highly subsidized by funds from the Mormon Church. I think it's only fair that people who pay into that system (i.e. Mormon members who pay tithing or make other donations) should receive a more subsidized tuition rate than those who do not. It's no different from a state university that makes tuition distinctions based on residency.

BYU grads are doing as well in this economy as everyone else is. But I understand your false sense of security. I mean, I read this blog daily and NO ONE from a T-14 school has ever been laid off . . .

- Government Secure

57, probably not any worse than you. And at least they won't be 150 grand in debt. More like 60 or 70 if they were relatively frugal.

38 - crazy mormons and their 11 am fiestas.

Was there a costume party going on, or was a male over the age of 12 really wearing a costume for Halloween?

Bill Paxton is my favorite mormonist.

Hey 62, 59 here.

I agree that BYU has cheap tuition, and this is very helpful. But even during good economic times, BYU law grads don't get nearly the same (as a percentage of the class) amount of grads into $160k salaries as T14s. While the T14 has been hurt in this economy, BYU is probably at least just as hurt, if not more. As for me (which isn't really relevant as far as looking at things generally), I have a summer associate job lined up at a V20 and will leave school with about 60-80k of debt. I worked and saved prior to attending law school. This also doesn't include my summer associate wages that'll go towards tuition next year.

I guess that what really ticked campus police off was that the guy insisted on being addressed as OFFICER Shatterhand Steele during questioning.

I apologize, 66 = original post 57 commenter. Not 59.

Dude should have gone with the slutty nurse costume.

66, I am trying to process this, you find it necessary to give us your analysis of the economics of attending BYU law school and the thinking that goes into your personal budget in the comments section of a blog story about a kid that dresses as a swat officer during a lecture by an Asst. A.G.

Some thoughts on BYU from a former BYU undergrad--

The cheap tuition is a boon. That Mormons pay lower tuition than non-Mormons isn't all that controversial. As a condition of attending BYU, Mormons must be in good standing with the Church, which includes the requirement that they pay a full tithe (10% of income). Since Mormons pay into the system, they receive a discount. It's not unlike a state school charging lower tuition to tax-paying residents.

BYU Mormons tend to fall on the quirckier, more religious, more conservative, and perhaps more self-righteous end of Mormondom. Nonetheless, most are pretty ordinary, likeable people. There are some nutcases, no doubt, but that's inevitable and will be true of any university.

But then, there's a lot to hate about BYU. The Honor Code is pretty draconian. It's an unfortunate remnant of the Ernest Wilkinson era (former, ultra-conservative president of BYU). The University is far too concerned with maintaining a conservative, clean-cut appearance. Given the demographic composition of its student body, the phrase "white and delightsome" comes to mind (Google that one).

You will not hear a word of criticism against the LDS Church anywhere on campus. Dissent simply is not tolerated. In fact, many professors have been fired or disciplined for criticizing the Church. In a similar vein, BYU has serious censorship issues. In the late 1990s, BYU administrators went so far as to remove Rodin's "The Kiss" from an exhibit at the art museum, due to its portrayal of nudity and mild eroticism. No, I'm not kidding.

Intolerance for dissent is not confined to the administration, unfortunately. It permeates the student body. Non-conformity in any respect (and political liberalism in particular) is automatically suspect. Criticizing the Church or its leaders is a good way to lose friends.

For these reasons, I have a hard time believing that BYU law classes manage to have even-handed discussions about gay marriage, abortion, or other social issues on which the Church has expressed an opinion (maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it). And what if a law professor--or student, for that matter--published an article or note arguing that, say, the LDS Church's tax exempt status should be revoked for its participation in the Prop 8 campaign? Unfortunately, I suspect that the administration would retaliate against that person. This type of thing has happened all too often.

I had a decent educational experience at BYU, on the whole. I found some great mentors and got my degree without taking on a penny in debt. But I didn't consider attending BYU Law for one millisecond. The culture of conformity and lack of tolerance for dissent were just too much to deal with for three more years. (I opted to pay $40K/year at a T10 instead.) Leaving BYU was like taking a breath of fresh air.

- Quasi-Mormon

47 - Are you a non-mormon at BYU Law or an undergrad at BYU? I don't think I have met one non-mormon law student here outside of two peeps from last year's class (and of course plenty of the LLM students). I feel your pain, I wonder who you are?

By the way, what is wrong with satirizing religion? Why do people seem to think that that religion should get a free pass from citicism? Are mormons (and other religious folk) against all forms of satire? Do they really see it as "religious persecution"?

Also, the magic underwear jokes are not nearly as sophisticated as the "peepstone" references - references that are more truthful than the average mormon would care to admit (or likely even know).

71--

Actually, you're wrong. The BYU Law faculty has a healthy mix of conservative and liberal professors, and the American Constitution Society has a very active chapter that very regularly hosts speakers who take the liberal view on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage.

Nice try, though.

--A BYU Law Grad who speaks from experience, rather than simply parroting the conventional platitudes

71 - I'm also attending a T10 and went BYU undergrad. I agree that it's a breath of fresh air. Overall, I thought your summary of BYU was even-handed and accurate. I've also wondered how BYU law class discussions progress, especially in Con Law 2, where you discuss gay rights issues and cases like Lawrence v. Texas. I just have a really hard time envisioning many students and especially a professor arguing how the court might be right, or that gay marriage is constitutional, etc.

73--

Tell that to Jeffrey Nielsen (BYU philosophy professor whose contract was not renewed after he publicly criticized the LDS Church for its stance on gay marriage)

-71

73 - give me a break. The former (possibly current) faculty advisor for the ACS was Freddie Geddicks. In 3 years while I attended, the only liberal thing to come out of his mouth was that perhaps France was right about Iraq not having weapons of mass destruction. Other than that, he was a stoolie for the LDS chruch just like all of the other law professors (including the 2 token non-LDS law professors). Where was the ACS when Prof. D was pushed out for being black and a female???

71 - please explain how charging different tuition rates is within the christian charity ethics for all of god's children.

This kid's kind of a douche. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were some attention-whoring going on here.

73--

And for the record, I made it quite clear that I was speaking from my experience as an undergrad at BYU. I did not purport to have first-hand experience at BYU Law.

-71

11/16/35/etc--

Yes, we get it. Mormons wear different underwear. Which makes them so much stranger looking than other faiths, who clearly shun any sort of ceremonial clothing.

I mean, I get that you're just trolling for a reaction, and I'm now feeding the troll. But seriously, if you're going to be a dick, at least be intelligent about it.

73, I think a few of your arguments don't quite pan out. First, while I agree that some of the BYU professors have liberal views, 71 argued in the context of publications. Would those liberal professors be permitted to openly speak out against Prop. 8? Of course, they can hold those views, but the moment they go public, that's where BYU will terminate employment. Do you think the BYU Law Review would accept an article about the Church's tax exempt status regarding Prop 8? Believe me, firings happen more than you might know for this kind of stuff. Furthermore, regarding your guest speakers argument, BYU has no problem with liberal guest speakers because they are seen as merely invites to campus who share a viewpoint. But they won't be seen as BYU's (and thus the Mormon Church's) position.

72 - there are more non-lds students at BYU Law than you realize. Just ask Dean Hernandez who we are. An invite out on a Sunday probably would be greatly appreciated by the non-lds students. Sundays in Provo sucks. Just don't invite us to church.

71/75--

And I made it quite clear that I was speaking about the law school. I didn't say anything at all about main campus.

76--

If you think that there were only 2 non-LDS professors at the law school, you either (1) don't know how to count, or (2) don't know what you're talking about.

And if you had a hard time thinking of non-conservative things that professors like Gedicks said, then you either (1) didn't actually take his class, or (2) don't know enough to know the difference.

83 - there were only 2 non-LDS professors when I attended BYU Law. Kudos if they actually hired more, which surprises me.

Also, I did take a class from Geddicks. Liberal thinking....sure, if you stretch the definition to extreme bounds.

I encourage everyone to google "peep stones." No, its not porn.

Never in my life did I think I would read about Fred Gedicks in an ATL comment thread.

-BYU Law 2008 grad

P.S. The law school is much more open to liberal views than the undergrad side

Never in my life did I think I would read about Fred Gedicks in an ATL comment thread.

-BYU Law 2008 grad

P.S. The law school is much more open to liberal views than the undergrad side

So what if these Mormons faced a 19th-century "Extermination Order" from the governor of Illinois? Their faith is peopled by conservative white men. Ergo, they've never endured real discrimination.

Moreover, attacking Mormons is socially acceptable because we know they're too docile too respond. So what if 70% of black Californians voted for Prop. H8? It was the Mormons fault. How dare they resort to the democratic process! Homophobes.

A religious minority is no minority in my book if it's peopled by white males. Unless they're Jews, of course.

BYU undergrads need to stop pretending they know anything about BYU Law. It is not the same thing at all. There was plenty of disagreement and discussion on political/social issues when I attended the law school.

If you're trying to be critical, explain how it is problematic to have a majority of conservative professors when most law schools are 90% liberal. I suppose politically slanted faculties are only appropriate when they go in one direction.

If anything BYU provides great contrast for anyone who, like me, spent four years getting trained in liberal thought as an undergrad.

77--

The LDS Church heavily subsidizes each student's education, LDS or not. As others have noted, even when the tuition deferential for non-Mormon students is taken into account, a BYU education is still rather inexpensive.

LDS students pay into the system (and typically have done so for many years, and continue to do so post-graduation). They also usually serve in various volunteer capacities within the Church. In other words, they materially contribute to BYU's sponsoring organization, monetarily and otherwise, in ways that non-LDS students do not.

I'm not saying that BYU necessarily should charge different tuition rates for Mormons and non-Mormons. The inequality just looks bad, if nothing else. But I don't think the two-tiered system is unreasonable, given the degree of sacrifice that the Church (and, by extension, BYU) demands of Mormon students. To put it another way, Mormon students more than make up for the tuition differential through the man hours and monetary donations that the LDS Church requires of them.

88 - thanks. I haven't been to Provo in over 5 years. I miss the mormon persecution complex. Glad to see that it is still alive and doing well.

lds.org

#88 - I am glad that my religious undergrad didn't use the BYU logic. I can't fathom anyone following their beliefs, but they did give me a hell of a good education...for the same price as their members.

91-

Please point me to any group that has been persecuted in the past that no longer suffers from a "complex" as a result. Blacks? Jews? Native Americans? Catholics? ROFL.

The fact that a U.S. state made it legal to kill Mormons, and that because of their religious beliefs they were forced to leave the boundaries of the United States just to survive, provides a somewhat valid cultural basis for the "persecution complex" that you deride.

Mormons are no different from any other group when it comes to perceived slights and/or mistreatment as the result of the past. But I'm sure it is all in their heads. It's not like there have been any recent events where Mormons were singled out and blamed for, say, the actions of the majority of California voters. LOL.

88 - It was Missouri. Please do your homework before you play victim.

94 -- I wonder why there was ever such an order....

"The Mormons were two hundred and fifty men by the time they reached Daviess County...The bulk of the forces went out in search of the gentile opposition. They marched through three settlements, including Gallatin, repaying the Missourians in kind, looting and firing stores, homes, and barns, before their anger spent itself." ("Kingdom of the Saints", Ray B. West, p. 86.)

FYI - mormons calls all non-mormons gentiles (even jews)

80

I'm still hungry. They don't wear different underwear, just magical. If there were about a Catholic school (as some tried to troll for) and called for it I would make fun of the pope's hat, Dozo would be the yarmulke etc. This is about clothing and BYU ergo magic underwear comes out.

96 - bad form.

Ray B. West, Kingdom of the Saints 86 (Viking Press) (1957).

96 & 98. Assuming arguendo that 200 men looted some towns, I am hard pressed to see how that justified an order for the extermination of all Mormons in the state. Not to mention, the phrase "repaying the Missourians in kind" is a clear indication that the Mormons were not the original aggressors.

But sure, whatever. Cite a book from the 50s. That makes it OK.

74 - I'm a non-mormon T10 alum.

I've also wondered how the vast majority of law professors discuss "progress, especially in Con Law 2 ... I just have a really hard time envisioning many students and especially a professor arguing how the court might be [wrong], or that gay marriage is [not] constitutional[ly protected], etc."

I never heard a single professor at my school question the logic of Lawrence.

Non-Mormon, BYU Law, class of 2009.

Never did I have a real problem. Not once. And I didn't hide my religion, or try to fade into the background. That just isn't me. Plus, I'm Southern Baptist, and we don't exactly have a reputation for treating Mormons well. But the views of some of those in my church were never shoved in my face by the Mormons at BYU Law. Ever. Being one of less than 10 non-Mormons at BYU Law gave me an interesting dose of perspective that many will never have. I'm thankful for my time there.

BYU undergrad here--law school T10. I agree with 89--in the classes dealing with gay marriage/abortion they were presented entirely from the leftist viewpoint. So what if BYU pushes it from the conservative viewpoint. If you don't agree, you don't agree--you are an adult and can make your own inquiry and decisions.

102--

The issue isn't BYU professors pushing a conservative viewpoint. The issue is academic freedom. Especially when it comes to sensitive topics like gay marriage, BYU has a history of retaliating against those who don't toe the line.

Hey 10 -

You're a moron. M-O-R-O-N. There isn't a person alive that doesn't know BYU is a Mormon school. I'm pretty sure #1 was joking. J-O-K-I-N-G. Jesus Christ. There sure do grow 'em sm-rt in Provo.

I'm not sure which is worse: That the students at BYU law don't realize it's actually a Catholic school (eeps), that Illinois AND Missouri did (and still do) want them all dead, or that BYU law folks want to give us the "skinny" and defend the wearing a SWAT team outfit because it was a really stupid outfit. Huh. Magic underwear must restrict blood flow.

finally, someone that makes elie look intelligent . . .

73 - "[H]ealthy mix of conservative and liberal professors"? Are you crazy? Ad hominem attack aside, I would like to know which profs are liberal? I have not had a single one, nor am I aware of any. Care to share names? There is no way that the ratio of conservative to liberal profs drops below 20:1.

82 - I am pretty sure there aren't more non-mormons at BYU Law than I think. I am thinking there are around 10 spread out amongst the three classes. Is that an accurate number? Further, as far as I know, I am the only non-theist at BYU Law. So, what are the actual numbers of non-mormons? I'd be interested to know. As far as Sundays go, no invites to any churches from me, but previously I had been checking out the triple AAA baseball team over by UVU. Good times.

83 - Are you a current BYU Law student? As far as I know there is now only one non-mormon full-time faculty member (Dominguez). Which other profs are non-mormons? I am positive that the last ~5 profs hired are mormons.

Also, Gedicks is not very liberal (if really at all). Let's just be honest about that. Are you conservative or liberal? Or something else? I have a hard time seeing how a liberal would characterize Gedicks as anything but a tad left of center.

As for students, there are truly very few liberal students at BYU Law and we mostly know who we are and can count on our fingers those within our class.

Furthermore, as several others have pointed out, the real problem is academic freedom. Although to be fair, I do not think that any of our professors would truly critique any of the mormon church's viewpoints. BYU is very careful about who it hires and they mostly toe the party line. In any event, if a prof ever attempted to publicly advocate a position opposed to that of the mormon church, you and I both know that he would face serious consequences (re: likely dismissal if she/he did not stop).

71 - I concur. You seem to be pretty versed in mormon/BYU history - kudos.

107 = as dumb as the guy complaining that Berkeley and Yale are vestiges of the far left. Somebody give this guy a Nobel Prize!

No liberals at BYU Law? Are you kidding? Sure, none of them are flaming leftists ala Michael Moore or Bill Maher, but there are certainly liberals on the faculty.

To name but a few ...

1. Larry Echohawk - First Native American elected to statewide office as the Attorney General of Idaho. Ran as a Democrat. Currently serving in the Obama administration as the Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs.

2. Frederick Geddicks - Advisor to ACS, avowed Democrat, national authority on Substantive Due Process and the Fourteenth Amendment. Sure, he's a moderate, but a liberal nonetheless.

3. Kif Augustine-Adams - Writes on gender studies, the Fourteenth Amendment, and immigration law. Well-known liberal. She was brave enough to challenge BYU administration on their patently discriminatory maternity leave policy.

4. Michael Goldsmith (RIP) - Appointed by Clinton to serve on the U.S. Sentencing Commission. Moderate Democrat.

5. David Dominguez - Well-known immigrant rights advocate and scholar. Went to Berkeley and Yale. He's liberal.

6. Dean James Gordon - Went to Berkeley, self-described liberal, makes fun of Republicans in class. He's moderate, but liberal

While the faith of these professors no doubt informs their politics (e.g., most of them are probably against abortion and gay marriage, like 40-50% of self-identified Democrats), they still lean left. Institutionally the school is conservative, but I've always felt like we get a diverse intellectual perspective in class.

109 - The profs you mentioned are mostly (and you admitted as much) a tad left of center. If that is your definition of liberal, I guess this is something that we just don't see eye to eye on.

In any event, even assuming that the four active professors you mentioned are liberals, that is four out of ~40 (10:1 ratio). I don't know that I would consider that a healthy balance, but I am sure others will disagree.

108 - Not sure what you were trying to critique, (certainly you didn't debate any of the points I made) but if calling me dumb makes you feel better, then have at it.

110 - Learn to read before working your gorilla math.

109 wrote "to name but a few," not "here is my exhaustive list of anyone who could conceivably vote Democrat on the BYU Law faculty."

Also, if Obama and Clinton appointees do not fit your definition of "liberal", I don't know what would. In any event, I would estimate that 30% of the faculty falls left of center.

Also, is it safe to assume maybe 10% of the faculty at Yale or Berkeley is "conservative"? If so, would you stipulate that most law schools lack a what you term a "health [intellectual] balance" in the classroom?

111 - While I did take note of 109's disclaimer, if you go to BYU Law, can you honestly say that 109's list of "liberal" profs is not very close to an exhaustive list of "anyone who could conceivably vote Democrat on the BYU Law faculty"?

Admittedly, and I think you would acknowledge such, the term "liberal" is not particularly well defined. I have my notion and you have your's, but even assuming a definition that encompasses the above professors (along with the few others who might possibly be added to the list), I still think even 20% of the faculty falling just a tad left of center would be extremely generous. As such, a healthy mix of conservative and liberal professors likely does not exist at BYU Law.

Importantly, amongst Obama and Clinton appointees and democrats in general, there exist plenty of conservative democrats. These types of democrats are precisely the types of individuals that would not qualify under a general definition of "liberal". The conservative democrat label is probably the term that would most aptly describe the purported "liberal" professors mentioned above.

Finally, I never argued that other law schools have a "healthy mix" of conservative and liberal professors. I was simply addressing an earlier post claiming that BYU Law has a healthy mix.

I have never attended any other law school, but from what I am told Yale, Berkeley, etc. probably do have a 1:10 conservative-liberal professor ratio. If that is in fact the case, I would agree that those law schools also lack a "healthy mix", just like BYU, but at essentially the inverse ratio.

-71- I also went to BYU undergrad and T10 law and your comments are spot on.

Hey mormon boy--

is that an assault rifle in your pocket or

are you just glad to see me.

94
you mean my killing of
mormons is not llegal anmore.

Ouch major faux pas on my part

71 I attended a very liberal state-run university before coming to BYU Law. I think the academic debate is much more even handed here than at the other school. I think the Law School in particular has a very different atmosphere than the rest of the institution. Most professors are moderate and I have seen many commonly held LDS beliefs questioned during class by professors and students. Guest speakers are welcomed from all viewpoints. That being said, I get creeped out every time I cross the street and visit the undergrad campus.