that is huge.

The litigators in their D.C. office have a tradition of walking to the E. Barrett Prettyman courthouse. No cabs, no buses, no subway.

You heard me. They walk.

Hey, I am about to enter my SECOND yr with no increase or bonus, but at least I have a job.

If we're being honest, we all knew this was coming. Non-NYC markets have historically not paid what the NYC market does. These markets are also thought to be less stressful and to require fewer billable hours (culturally, anyway, if not actually). Whether this perception is true is certainly up for debate, but law firms traded on it in the past and will do so again.

4 - But your grades could've gotten you a firm that actually still has lockstep!

Should 2010 summers be worried?

Wasn't this firm supposedly safe? WTF happened?

ahhhahahahahahahahaaaa!

Skadden Secure

Meanwhile, Williams & Connolly just got the Bear Stearns guys acquitted today. So that pretty much guarantees W&C another few years of big-bucks white-collar defense work while the Covington dinosaur and its piping-hot regulatory practice lumbers behind.

This has nothing to do with Covington being a "safe" firm - They are doing this because they can get away with it. Associates have no viable exit opportunities and thus the partners can push down on compensation.

8 -

It is. No one is losing their job. For the current market climate, enduring a "freeze" is . . . well . . . not that bad.

Besides, Covington is a regulatory shop first and foremost. They just don't bill the kinds of hours and rates as other top tier firms, even though they are more selective than most. It's hard to compete for top talent when you don't do the volume of deal work that your top tier brothers do.

When we say "salary freeze" in this context, does it mean the elimination of lockstop? As in rising third years will be kept at their previous second year salary, rising second years will be kept at their previous first year salary, etc.? Or do we mean that salaries won't increase? As in the base salary for first years is $160k, we're not increasing that?

a "true up raise" ? Thanks, Elie. I haven't laughed that hard in weeks.

Mission Accomplished!

W&C owns Covington. Prepare to wipe the District's asses Covington!!!!

10,

Yes, I am sure regulatory work is going to slow down with a Democrat in the WH and Democrats controlling the Hill. Yes, that's what always happen.

Other prominent DC Firm employees: assume that our Slurpees just become solid.

3 - No self-respecting lawyer rides a bus.

The ship has sunk! There is no ship!

Don't worry, folks. This is part of the President's master plan to "fundamentally transform America."

Faced with the most menacing recession since the Great Depression, you might instinctively react by focusing on jobs. You'd also be wrong.

The answer of course is government-run health care. One only has to look across the pond to see how socialized medicine leads to tremendous economic growth.

Plus, Obama's policies will lead to a surge of job creation in the D.C. area.

D.C. BUREAUCRATS SECURE

Brrr! Es muy frío aquí dentro.

You're as COLD AS ICE!
You're willing to SACRIFICE my pay

This is welcome news. Christmas arrives early.

shit.

Another reason I am glad to be DOJ SECURE.

21

Sure wish my bank account was in euros and not dollars these days...

LATHAM

I thought they sold coats.

PILLSBURY

Elie

What did you do? Is this Lat taking another twitter swipe at you?

http://twitter.com/davidlat

27,

Good point.

If the exchange rate tells us anything, it's that the European welfare state is good economics.

It has absolutely nothing to do with America's exploding deficits or inflationary monetary policies.

Remember:

1. Explode deficits/inflate dollar;
2. Socialize medicine;
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. Profit!

The door is wide open for Skadden to move to V2.

IT'S SO EASY TO EXPLAIN WHY COV DID THIS AND FIRMS LIKE W&C AND CRAVATH DO NOT. ..

Covington relies on laterals -- they have no "firm specific capital" that keeps partners tied to the firm, like w&c, cravath, and dpw do. W&C has hired ONE lateral in the past 20 years (the appellate guy). People stay at firms like w&c and cravath b/c of the tradition, culture, etc -- people see covington as a way station after gov't (eg, notice how covington hires these over-the-hill, has-been ex gov't types who couldn't make rain if they were standing in the middle of a hurricane).

To keep these laterals, cov has to maintain ppp. meanwhile, firms like w&c and dpw don't have to manage ppp like that b/c the partners stick around for other reasons, even if their take home dips for a year or two.

34- Cravath? Seriously? It's turnover is ridiculously high.

35 -- not among PARTNERS it's not!

Hmmm.... what about bonuses? None?

Do we really not all know by now that this is not over. There will be more lay offs. There will be more freezes. There will be more firms lowering salaries. There will be more firms deferring first years. There will be more firms cutting salaries.

Why. We all know. Salaries rose too quickly. Big firms hired too many (average) attorneys as warm bodies. The economy dipped. Clients can pay their bills; or refuse to pay all some their bills; or demand lower rates. The big firm model is flawed. And on and on and on.

Bottom line: if you work at a big firm, and you are a good attorney...your mistake is forgivable, but start to think about getting out now.

37 -- good question. I heard that NY gets 15k in bonuses, DC gets negative 10k.

38 - And do what? Apply at the Quiznos around the corner from my house?

40 -- don't listen to 38. he wants you to go to wall street and be a trader or a banker or some crap -- that way you'll be laid off in 9 months instead of 6.

yo 3 what u talkin' about willis? their office is on the corner of 6th and h. that means if they walk around the corner and down 5th street and then hook a left at 500 indiana they can be at the COAThouse in 5 min. bump de cab, yo. hootie whoo. it's quicker that way. i often get really fudd up at the red roof inn/irish channel on my way back but i never saw sotomajors in there. i was pretty fudd up though.

Sigourney Beaver would love to have a chance

Who else is loving the Assara ad (even as it taunts us with Half-Skadden - as if getting that level bonus wouldn't be what we all were hoping for this year until Cravath cut even further)?

In VA, WE AIN'T PURPLE NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hee hee.

-- The Barkeep

A shot of Jack me boye.

A salary freeze almost certainly means No Bonuses, too, right?. Did they specifically address this or allow the associates to figure it out themselves? It's a pretty big hit for anyone counting on a bump in 2010.

ATL: Please investigate the following. Who is this law clerk? What law firm did he/she work for (just a guess: possibly Perkins Coie, which has represented Obama and other Dems for many issues), and why is this wach job Taitz alleging that there's some sort of impropriety here?

Obama birthplace lawyer lashes out at court
November 10th, 2009, 12:05 pm · 72 Comments · posted by Martin Wisckol, Politics reporter
Laguna Niguel attorney Orly Taitz has filed a fiery motion to revive her dismissed lawsuit challenging the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s presidency. The documents filed with federal District Judge David O. Carter’s Santa Ana court include allegations that a Carter law clerk previously worked for a law firm defending Obama, and that that clerk wrote most of Carter’s ruling dismissing Taitz’s suit.

That suit sought to prove that Obama was born in Kenya and so does not meet the qualifications to be president. Carter’s Oct. 29 ruling said that removal of a president is, by the authority of the Constitution, a matter for Congress, not the courts.

In his ruling, Carter repeatedly chastised Taitz. At one point, he complains that she had her followers contact the court in an effort to sway his opinion, and at another point, he says he’s received several affidavits from witnesses who say that Taitz asked them to lie to the court.

Taitz denied both points in her filing.

I’ve obtained two of the affidavits from those witnesses, and communicated with those witnesses, one of whom claims to have been Obama’s homosexual lover and another of whom claims to have Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate. I’ll be posting more about that later.

Here are the lastest documents filed by Taitz:

40/41--Do you guys seriously think that big law is the only way to make a great living. You could get better experience and make more at a small place. That is, if you're any good. Maybe you're not. I don't know. Or maybe you're just not creative enough to think of something so off the wall...not working at a big firm where you have virtually no say over your pay, how quickly you rise to the top, what clients or matters to accept, what work to do, what work is a waste of time. Wait, are you guys 7th years who have taken one depo, in a pro bono case? Or are you 5th years who once said their name at hearing with their boss and his or her boss. And got nervous doing it...

Surfuckingprise, there is downward pressure on associate salaries. Firms, even profitable firms doing a decent amount of business can cut salaries.

Cut or freeze salaries, but increase billing rates. Works out well for the firms.

5-don't forget the lower cost of living in places compared to new york. I always thought it was bizarre when firms had the same salaries in cities with wildly different costs of living. Really, if you're paying the same salary in New York as you are anywhere other than LA or San Francisco, that's absurd-yes, even you, DC. Don't even get me started on firms that pay the same in say, New York and Houston.

51 -

DC resident here disagreeing with you wholeheartedly. DC is more expensive than LA and on par with San Fran (but admittedly less than NY).

The problem is that the people in NY are doing the same job as the people anywhere else . . . and many people relocate from one office to another. Jones Day works this system quite well - they pay very low rates for people in Cleveland working on all NY matters. They get the same work for a much reduced price . . . but they'll never let you move from Cleveland to NY. Never. Other firms allow movement at will (for the most part). And for those firms, how can you justify paying one person less or more than another?

52, you are incredibly wrong. I grew up in DC. I live in SF now. I have also lived in NY. NY is the most expensive. SF is slightly better. DC is dirt cheap by comparison. There is objective data on this. Look it up.

Well, let's give Covington some credit here.... at least they didn't wait until just after summer associate recruiting season had concluded to announce this. There are probably a good number of 2L's who haven't accepted offers yet so they can still factor in this information.

Wait...so what was that about "NY is being hit hardest" I've been hearing for the past year?

34 -

Seriously? W&C has hired one lateral? Are you talking about Shanmugam?

Covington Brrrrrling?

Hahahahahaha... this post makes me laugh. Especially at all those fools talking up Covington so damn much the past year.
Covington doesn't belong in the same sentence as the New York big swingin dicks. FINALLY that should be apparent to everyone. "Safe" my ass.

Why the rush to defend them, or more really the lack of a rush to disparage them? Cravath and Cleary GIVE out extra money and they are TTT etc. with 100s of comments and angry people. The NY jealousy on this site is so apparent.

Get ready for bonus season bitches

58 -- keep talking up NY. meanwhile, w&c (a DC firm) is paying 13k more than your sacred cravattth. enjoy ny with your 50% taxes and 300 sq ft apartment and 2800 hrs/year for LESS pay than a DC firm!

at least you have the MET and Times Square and cool coffee houses.

51 - Move to Houston then and stop whining.

BOSTON IS REALLY EXPENSIVE TOO. I NEED A RAISE AND A BONUS HERE.

ASSARA - for all you hairy associates!!!

I inherited this mess!

I'm Barack Obama?

Hey 59, maybe this year and last w&C make a little more than my sacred Cravath... but oh, let's see, ummm. EVERY other year one could imagine Cravath (and all the other NYC-ers have made far more than your precious litigation boutique.

W&C trolls are sad creatures. You talk condescendingly about Cravath when bitch please you don't even belong in the same sentence as Debevoise or Paul Weiss.

60-why do you assume i'm not there already?--i'm not whining, i'm just saying it never made much sense to me why some firms didn't seriously factor in cost of living in starting salaries, especially in this economy. i'm perfectly happy with a lower salary and a nice apartment in say, atlanta, than a shoe box in ny for $160,000.

Dude W&C doesn't even give bonuses, ever. More often than not, it's a 'normal' time in our economy and not a global recession. So, more often than not, W&C makes less than NY firms.

Covingttton and Burling

64 -- uh, last year w&c made more than cravattth too. and compare the bios of w&c people to freakin debevois and paul weiss (or cravattth for that matter) and see where the best students are going. show me a student interested in Lit who chooses PW over w&c, and i'll show you someone who's lying about his w&c offer.

you ny trolls are the sad creatures. you know that you made a horrible choice -- that ny is a overtaxed hell-hole, and that the center of gravity has shifted to DC, but you hang on to this idiotic pro-NY dream that died some time ago.

i GUARANTEE that associates at the top 3 or so DC firms make substantially more per hour than cravattth associates IN THE BEST OF YEARS, even before adjusting for taxes, cost of living, etc.

but at least you have good coffee houses. now go home to your 300 sq ft apartment and play with your Wii (which is likely your only friend b/c you work so much) that you bought w/ your bonus this year.

Will someone please tell me why Pillsbury hasn't dissolved? I haven't had billings for months. We've got senior partners participating in first-cut document reviews...

Who moved my $160k?

Is Covington in one of those 32-story buildings in DC?

Uhhh why dont you read my post douchebag.. I said this year AND LAST... so busy fuming with jealousy you can't even read a post.

Dude I bet you've never even been to NY... just one of those D.C. obsessed losers who could never make it in a real city. Enjoy your swamp and your meaningless existence at firms no one outside your swamp knows or cares about.

34, how would standing in the middle of a hurricane help a partner make it rain?

72 -- it's simple. go poll the top students at the top law schools and ask them whether they'd choose w&c or cravattth for Lit. get back to me.

sorry about your w&c ding. go have fun with the other 159 new associates joining the uber-exclusive cravattth.

yeah buddy, and they'd choose cravath.

love how you need the "for Lit" qualifier to even have a glimmer of hope of being agreed with by anyone

this is what you boutiques will never understand, no one cares about you. The firms at the top are great at everything, and you're just... not

76 is a genius. His insight is essentially that "firms that don't do corp work aren't good at corp work." Are you sure about that?

Most top students go to smaller boutique firms for a simple reason that the median guys at HLS (all of whom get offers from cravattth and s&c) will never understand: at cravath, you will be sitting fourth-chair defending depositions or writing meaningless memos for the first 3 years. Whereas at boutique firms, you'll be TAKING the depo in your first few months.

Bottom line. If you want to do litigation, go to WilCon. If you want to learn the intricacies of the find/replace feature for 5 years and be around people making a fair amount of money, while having a minimal chance of making that money yourself, then go to NYC BIGLAW. And, when the so-called cravattth "talent" hits their fifth year, hasn't taken a depo, argued a contested matter let alone even prepped exhibits for trial, go lateral to Holland & Knight.

This is a silly argument. Everybody knows that wlrk, mto, and w&c have the highest yields by far.

42, you are an idiot. Covington is at 13th and Penn, at the CVS, old les Halles.

It is normal to walk the straigh shot down penn.

53,

I live in DC and SF. They are comparable towns in terms of expense. The difference is that SF is a great city, whereas DC is a sleepy, boring town.

Dewey & LeBoeuf lays off attorneys..................

LOL at NYC trolls. Your hours suck compared to top DC firms like Cov, as do your hourly pay rates, your cost of living, and your quality of life.

This is big news. The difference in salaries among firms is going to start being substantial. Take a class of 2005 as an example. In 2010, that associate will earn as follows:

Top NY firm (Cravath, Cleary, etc.) -- $230K

Firm that didn't freeze last year, but that freezes now (Covington); or firm that froze last year and unfreezes -- $210K

Firm that froze last year and stays frozen -- $185K

So basically a possible $45K salary difference among firms.

Game over, man! Game over!

Comments stating that "salaries rose to quickly" are posted either by idiots or "law industry consultants" (hired and paid by firm management). Same goes for any comments relating to "associate pay levels clients are willing to tolerate."

For firms with PPP of $1 million and above, do you really think that $10k or $30k or $60k means much to the actual comp of current partners? Do you actually think that GC's are so stupid as to overlook the huge PPPs of partners and consistently increased billing rates (e.g., my frozen firm raised rates, PPPs went up slighty...oh yeah, I'm sure GC's are really sweating the move from $145k to $160k starting salaries...please). You do realize that most GC's slaved away as associates (and may or may not have been partners for a while), right? Many did so prior to the 2006/07 raises - which were long overdue (amid neck-breaking increases in PPPs).

Freezes (and certain layoffs) are about one thing: inflating, if only for a moment in time, the ostensible profits of a firm, in order to lure lateral partners with books.

(Note: the drastic cuts to bonuses serve the above goal as well, and have the additional benefit of good optics, notwithstanding the fact that decision makers at many firm clients are now making huge dough again.)

Parners are why clients choose certain firms, and clients are of course sensitive to costs, but theories based on "inflated associate salaries" are just silly.

85 = the most sensible comment on ATL in a long, long time. GCs couldn't care less about associate salaries. To the extent that they DO care, they're definitely looking at associates salaries AS A PERCENTAGE OF PPP, which is actually going DOWN.

The problem with Covington's decision to freeze salaries is that it is not commensurate with what Covington's true peer firms are doing nor the financial needs of the firm. Reed Smith's approach to salaries reflects the approach of a very different firm, operating in a very different hiring market. Covington has never been a leader on base compensation---upward or downward--with the exception of this move. Associates at Covington had accepted low, below-market bonuses as a trade-off for a collegial environment, but the implicit promise was that Covington's base salaries would match the market for the very top firms in the country. With low or nonexistent bonuses being paid very late (e.g., April 2010), and now with salaries that are sub-par, it is going to be tough to motivate associates to go above and beyond. That isn't an abstract problem, but one that individual partners, who work with associates on a daily basis, will be aware of and may want to fix. This is a blunder by management, and has a decent chance of being reversed.

ATL REALLY needs to go back to the firms that froze salaries last year to determine whether they'll stay frozen for yet another year, or whether they'll increase and basically end up with a system one year behind.

I agree with 85 and 87 completely.

By freezing salaries, Covington's pay scale now suggests that a second year associate has the same value to the firm as a brand, spankin' new first year associate. That cannot be further from the truth.

This move will hurt Covington's recruiting and retention. Particularly when Covington's "peer firms" -- the firms it truly competes against for talent -- have not frozen and are still paying a hefty bonus.

89, hurt recruiting? C'mon. How many posts have we seen from self-professed t14, law review types saying the got ONE offer? How many posts have we seen about mass layoffs and deferments? The reality is people want jobs. If someone wants to turn their noses up at covington, that is just fine because there are 100's of applicants that will say "yes please"

I do not work at Covington.

Thank you 87. My sentiments exactly. Don't know about the prospects for reversal, however.

How does this work for for people who just joined the firm this fall? For example, suppose a 2008 grad did a 1 year clerkship and joined the firm in October as a second year. Did he start at 170? In the meantime, his classmates who joined the firm a year ago are still frozen at 160.

92, no, he would have started at $160k because were step increases going to happen, they wouldn't have happened until January. Members of the class of 2008 are still "first year associates" as far as pay goes at basically every firm. (Covington was actually the exception to this rule until this year; previously they gave step increases in October.)

As the markets crashed and the economy collapsed, Covington was virtually the only AmLaw 100 firm to not do one or more of the following: lay off partners, associates, secretaries or other staff; declare hiring freezes on any of these classes of workers; defer start-dates for incoming associates; cut associate or staff salaries; cancel or trim its summer program; cut back on permanent offers to summer associates; cancel or cut back on on-campus recruiting (or recruiting in general); cancel bonuses; cut back on promotions to partner (10 new equity partners, the firm having only one tier of partner). Cravath; Sullivan & Cromwell; Skadden; Simpson Thacher; Latham; Kirkland & Ellis; WilmerHale; every single AmLaw 100 firm but Covington. So now Covington calls a one-time halt to automatic step increases in associate compensation, while retaining associates bonuses, which for strong performers likely will increase. And all of a sudden Covington has fallen from grace? Be serious; learn your facts; be lawyer-like in the way you think and the way you write.

Stop being such a bootlicker, 94. If you paid any attention to the slides shown at the meeting, you know this cut/freeze has nothing to do with the firm's 2009 performance (better than 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, etc. etc. on every single metric) and everything to do with thinking they can get away with it because they can throw together a ragtag group of firms they'd never otherwise consider "peers" that did the same thing a year ago. If they were set on doing something to try to make PPP actually reach an all-time high at the height of a huge economic collapse, I'd rather they have laid off poor performers. I'll take my increased bonus but I bet it will still put my total comp at below market.

95, grow up, open your eyes and get a clue. There's a recession. There are thousands of lawyers out there who have received pay cuts or who have been laid off. But go ahead and keep telling yourself that all those folks deserved it because they have inferior pedigrees and are poor performers. Just be the entitled, spoiled little shit that you are (aka an associate at Covington).