Further Deferrals at Winston & Strawn
(Plus other goings-on at the firm.)
The signals seem mixed in terms of whether the legal profession is on the road to recovery. On the one hand, the pace of layoffs is certainly slowing. On the other hand, firms are taking other steps to keep headcount (and expenses) down. They are not yet in a mode where they need more hands on deck to handle all the work.
One of the popular approaches is deferral extension, i.e., pushing start dates for incoming associates back yet again. A number of firms have gone down this path. To view our prior coverage, click here and scroll down.
The latest firm to take this approach: Winston & Strawn. The firm’s incoming associates were previously scheduled to arrive on January 19, 2010. Now, according to a memo issued yesterday by hiring partner Joseph Torres, class of 2009 associates will be starting on one of three dates: February 1, 2010; June 1, 2010; or October 4, 2010.
Deferral extension details, including the full memo, plus other information about Winston — after the jump.
The memo states:
Having recently concluded our budgeting process for 2010, we have determined that it is necessary to make additional adjustments to your start date. Please be assured that the Firm is performing well and positioned to remain one of the preeminent law firms, even in this challenging economy.
Methinks the firm doth protest too much? Then again, it’s all relative — Winston & Strawn is postpoing start dates (again), but other firms are too.
The memo then lists the three start dates, which it appears will be assigned to incoming associates (they don’t get to choose). Roughly a third of the class will start on each of the dates.
In the last deferral announcement, Winston associates were pushed back to January 19, 2010, and told they would receive an additional $15,000 on top of their $10,000 bar stipend. What are the terms of the deferral extension?
All associates in your class not currently on a judicial clerkship will receive an additional paycheck in the amount of $1,666 for the second two weeks of January. Beginning February 1, associates not currently on a judicial clerkship who will be starting on June 1 or October 4 will receive a monthly stipend of $3,300 per month, less applicable payroll deductions. Associates in these groups will also continue to receive subsidized health insurance coverage, in accordance with the terms of the applicable Firm plans. Beginning on your start date, you will be responsible for the full associate premium contribution for the coverage you elected.
There seems to be some “deferral stipend deflation” going on. As one incoming Winston associate asked us, “Isn’t $3,300 a month a bit low of a stipend, compared to other firms, for ‘incoming’ associates deferred until October?”
It would seem so. A payment of $3,300 a month works out to less than $40,000 annualized, which is significantly lower than most deferral stipends doled out until now.
But look, incoming Winstonites, things could be worse. First, you could be out of a job. From a tipster who used to work at the firm:
[A few weeks ago I] talked to a friend at Winston. She has been there [for many] years and says she has never seen anything like this — layoffs. Some partners were asked to retire, not just left as you mentioned in one of your articles. Quite a few [support staff] were let go too.
If you’re looking for numbers or hard data on Winston layoffs, sorry — the firm isn’t providing them. (This is why we’ve had to resort to guesswork.)
Second, under “things could be worse,” at least you got an offer. A second source reports, regarding 2009 summer associates who got no-offered by Winston:
Winston & Strawn refuses to let anyone from the firm write recommendation letters for any summers. That is complete and utter bulls**t. The partners are running their firm into the ground and are punishing their no-offered summers by not allowing associates to write recommendation letters for these summers.In this competitive job market, 3Ls need every advantage they can get, and not having a way to show a new employer conclusive proof that you were no offered for economic reason is terrible.
Of course, cynics might question the value of such a letter of endorsement. But it probably would have been better than nothing.
A firm spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on the foregoing information. The complete memo appears below.
WINSTON & STRAWN — MEMORANDUM — START DATE
To: Incoming Associates
From: Joseph J. Torres
Chair, Hiring Committee
Date: November 2, 2009
Re: Start Date
As we approach 2010, we have continued to monitor our clients’ demand for legal
services in light of the existing economic conditions. As you know, our hiring goals are based in part on our projected estimate of the number of attorneys we need to meet the anticipated demand for our services.
Having recently concluded our budgeting process for 2010, we have determined that it is
necessary to make additional adjustments to your start date. Please be assured that the Firm is performing well and positioned to remain one of the preeminent law firms, even in this challenging economy. However, given the uncertain market for legal services, we have established three start dates for your class:
February 1, 2010
June 1, 2010
October 4, 2010
Each of you will be contacted shortly concerning your start date. We expect approximately one-third of your class will start on each of these dates. Additional information concerning your department assignments, CLE responsibilities, as well as orientation and training schedules will be provided in the coming weeks.
All associates in your class not currently on a judicial clerkship will receive an additional
paycheck in the amount of $1,666 for the second two weeks of January. Beginning February 1, associates not currently on a judicial clerkship who will be starting on June 1 or October 4 will receive a monthly stipend of $3,300 per month, less applicable payroll deductions. Associates in these groups will also continue to receive subsidized health insurance coverage, in accordance with the terms of the applicable Firm plans. Beginning on your start date, you will be responsible for the full associate premium contribution for the coverage you elected. An explanation of the 2010 coverage terms and enrollment procedures will be posted on the New Associate Extranet in December.
As we move into 2010, we will continue to monitor our needs and may accelerate or
revise this schedule as necessary.
We realize you may be disappointed by this development. The Firm does not make such decisions lightly. However, we believe this schedule will allow us to properly manage our
provision of quality legal services and provide all of our lawyers a successful and sustainable work experience. We were fortunate to have recruited some of the best and brightest law students in the country and we want you to know that we value the contributions you will provide to the Firm.
Please feel free to call me should you have questions about anything covered in this memo. You may also contact any of our local office hiring committee members or any member of our recruiting staff.
cc:
Hiring Committee
Attorney Recruitment Managers
(162) Comments
Comments
furst!
zweiter!
Postpoing?
Well, the re-deferral trend has finally made its way into the V50. As I have maintained all along, the firms simply picked these January start dates at random--they never expected any of us to actually start unless things picked up dramatically.
So now the rest of us going to V50 firms wait for the phone call. This week and next is when it will all go down. But at least they didn't string us along and then wait for the last possible second to make a decision, right?
I spoke to a guy from my law school who recruited me last year for the summer program, and he said Winston is now only providing health insurance to laid off attorneys only until the end of the month in which they depart, not for the full duration of their severance. This appears to be a change in policy, as at least one attorney laid off late last year received health insurance for the full duration of her severance. Talk about cutting corners.
No story on the lawsuit against ATL?
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202435131161&hbxlogin=1
"Preeminent firm?" JaKe Emeritus and P.E. must have lost their shi*t over that one!
#6 - Why exactly would they risk an admission against interest?
Mission Accomplished!
8 - posting a news story is not an statement against interest.
Part of the fun of this story is that the Winston deferred don't actually know when they are starting yet. Partner Emerit.. er I mean Joe Torres said that they will let you know "soon" which third you will be in, but no one has yet been told and no timeline for informing given. So, this was really meant to scare the shit out of the deferred and then string them along even in the notification process.
this seems like a dream compared to what happened to my class.
-violently lathamed first year
this seems like a dream compared to what happened to my class.
-violently lathamed first year
LOL @ the one-month delay until February. What's the point?
Dear Winston Associates:
For those of you "starting" in June and October 2010, this means that you will have been out of work and not gaining any legal skills for over a year. Firm management is hoping that each of you is looking for other legal employment, and will find it even in this economy before your further deferred "starting" date. To encourage you to look hard and to settle for whatever you can find, Winston will pay you a subsistence wage in the interim. Make no mistake, though, you will never start at Winston. Your offers have been effectively rescinded. Under this program, though, Winston is spared the negative press of actually having to fire you. And that is all that really matters.
For those of you "starting" in February, you may be more lucky because even in this economy, we need some new associates to replace the senior associates that we are firing every day.
The firm.
To the associates starting in October 4, 2010:
How does it feel to see objective evidence that you're at the bottom of the heap?
16 -- I bet they put everyone's name into a spreadsheet and randomized the order, then divided into 3 groups. You really think a BigLaw firm analyzed its summers' performance AT ALL in making this decision?
-- not at W&S
To the associates starting on February 1, 2010:
How does it feel to see objective evidence that you're the kings of law?
Holy shit. The asskicking of the year of 2009 begins.
This post is addressed to Commenter #7:
Note that W&S did not use peer, only preeminent, do describe their firm.
17, you must be delusional
Truestory #1: Layoffs in Chicago have over the course of a year amounted to over 20% of attorneys in the office (even some equity partners were forced out)
Truestory #2: Winston doesn't like to admit that the economy has caused the layoffs. Instead they choke the hours of associates they want to get rid of and then tell them that they weren't billing enough hours.
Truestory # 3: One summer associate who used the n--- word and made other inappropriate racial remarks in front of other attorneys was given an offer. Firmwide offer rate was about 60% with some offices going well below 50%.
Truestory #4: There is a prominent litigation partner who likes to come to work drunk and then berate his litigation associates.
Truestory #5: When getting rid of an old equity partner Winston will often make the partner send an upbeat retirement farewell email.
Truestory #6: Outside of Paris, the foreign offices are money sinks. Charlotte=where work comes to die.
Truestory #7: One senior associate went to check a do not staff list (lists used to choke hours of associates that Winston wants to get rid of) when she wanted to staff a project. To her horror she discovered her name on the list.
Truestory #8: At a recruiting event a partner threw a half-full beer bottle into the trash but missed. The bottle rolled on the floor by the garbage can and spilled some beer. The partner said "well that's why I'm a partner: I don't have to clean up my own mess anymore. It's one of the perks." The prospects nervously laughed while attorney recruiting was horrified.
Truestory #9: Offices were encouraged to throw cocktail parties over the summer to increase camaraderie among summers, associates, and partners. The legal staff is not invited and are given their own separate party where partners do not attend. NY took things a bit too far. In NY the operations staff was required to dress up for themed parties which required sombreros and traditional Mexican dress for the mexican themed party. They then were required to dress as cowboys for another party. The Indian themed party was advertised on a poster with a Hindu god surrounded by scantily clad hula women. People were offended and the theme was removed. The poster image has spread throughout the offices, and now Indian-Americans have an additional reason to hate the firm.
$3,300/mo for doing nothing still sounds pretty sweet. I have been living poor for so long, $3,300/mo would be Monopoly money to me. Let the good times roll.
Note to "my" firm: If you are going to redefer, please do it soon.
- Non-Stipended January Deferred
Question for the board. I'm sure Winston made all these deferred sign something saying that if you do not join the firm, you will have to pay back the whole stipend. It'd probably total to like $20k
What are the odds of them enforcing this if I bail. Say I am also at a "preeminent law firm." Think I should just bail as soon as I get a legal gig? Would it be better to just leave law altogether?
A "January" start date at any firm never meant ^&%$.
17 - While I do believe there is some level of arbitrariness involved in deciding who to re-defer, I would bet that what happens is this:
- Every practice group tells the hiring committee how many new bodies it can handle;
- The hiring committee looks at which groups the summers picked as their top choice;
- The practice groups will look at a list of the incomings who selected their group, and will try to remember who they "liked" from the summer of 2008.
If the firm actually picks at random they are more retarded than I thought.
Two thoughts:
1. For most 2Ls who were lucky enough to receive summer offers, the NALP acceptance deadline has expired. I would bet that as firms decide that their 2010 summer classes are full, they will start announcing deferrals (and deferral extensions) for their offered summers from 2009 and 2008.
2. Deferral extensions may reflect how much the firm likes you. But it also may reflect whether the firm wants you (and/or you requested to be) in a practice area that has enough work to go around.
what sort of clerkship bonus should i expect?
Question for the commenting masses - if I am sending a resume and cover letter by email, is it necessary to sign the cover letter or can I attach it and send it without a signature?
Considering the falling Dow, indicating the end of the bear market rally, the preeminent law firm of Winston & Strawn is pursuing a prudent course in further deferring two-thirds of the class of 2009. The demand for legal services will not recover until the second quarter of 2010.
While this re-deferral really does suck, if I were a Winston incoming first year who just got re-deferred to June or October, things could be much worse. I would take the roughly $39,600 annualized stipend, and get a day job 9-5 somewhere. Working in a store, or wherever. I could put a severe dent in my loans, and have a somewhat decent work/life schedule at the same time. A total annualized salary of $70-$80K is good money.
Yes, this really, really sucks for people who were counting on $160K/annualized starting in January [or really, 5 weeks ago.] But things could be way worse. These associates could have simply had their offers revoked.
This is bad, but things could be far worse for these deferred associates. Just ask the 10%-15% of America that is unemployed and lives only off of federal and state unemployment benefits [whose jobs were not part of the phony-baloney "saved or created" statistic from the federal stimulus.]
I think it's safe to say that life in BigLaw isn't what it used to be. FTT'ers now know that their shit really does stink, so start eating it with a spoon...fingers optional. You guys are well and truly fucked.
29 - OK to just type your name at the end of the cover letter, no need to sign & scan.
22 -
Truestory #10: That's how we roll in ChiTown!
Deferred for Life - have you been re-deferred yet?
It is time for a motherfucking pussy fart!
Note the part of the memo that says that the start dates could be "revised" down the road. Waiting, waiting, waiting. BigLaw associates or associate want-to-be's best get ready for a huge dick up the ass, because it's coming, and it's coming for you.
35 - No, my firm thinks it's a good idea to string us along for as long as possible before making a decision. I do, however, expect to hear soon (probably this week or next).
Thanks 33!
-29
Great stuff #22! I hope they're actually "true stories."
how does this effect people who are clerking this year? can they now start with their class in october? or are they still going to be pushed back to start with the following year's class? so confused...
Give us a story on the ATL lawsuit Lat, and lots of unnecessary updates to keep it on the front page. Come on Lat, do it for your core readership and commenters. I'm sure they want to kick you while you're down, just like they do to everyone else.
But don't worry about all those snarky commenters, Lat. I know that you can get yourself off!
Lat
Is Donald Marvin Jones a nutty professor? Please discuss.
Time to blast my nips!
This is the just the start. Expect the majority of Vault firms to pull stunts like this over the next few weeks. Peer firms have just been waiting for someone to break the ice.
Will Elie serve as Professor Jones' expert witness on the subject of ATL's racism?
Yeah, given their ivy league educations, if there's any technical defect in the ATL lawsuit, I'm sure the folks at ATL will be able to themselves off.
Yeah, given their ivy league educations, if there's any technical defect in the ATL lawsuit, I'm sure the folks at ATL will be able to get themselves off.
29,
Here's what I do for signing cover letters:
1. Write your signature on standard legal paper. Write it large enough so that it takes up the entire page.
2. Scan that signature and save it as a picture (i.e. jpeg or something)
3. In the Word (or whatever word-processing software) document containing your cover letter, insert the signature as a picture just above where you typed your name.
4. Go to any free online pdf converter and convert the entire document (cover letter and resume) to a pdf file.
5. Send the pdf document as an application.
I've been doing that for a while and prefer that approach to sending Word documents. Good luck.
40. Having worked at Winston, sadly, they are.
Lat, would it really hurt *not* to encourage these firms? Your own coverage of these re-deferrals doesn't support the implication that this is some kind of "popular" trend. And telling your pissed off incoming associate readers that "Hey, this isn't so bad," is really not the sort of mollification we want to become common among law firm managing partners. Being re-deferred this late in the game IS pretty bad.
There are a couple of things that are true about law firm managers: they're dumb and they're opportunistic. Half of these re-deferrals probably have more to do with driving up profits and hoarding hours than they do with actual business necessity. Creating the impression on a prominent legal gossip blog that it's all economy-driven and widespread only gives these managers cover to string out their incoming associates.
Here's a thought: report, don't characterize. Have some journalistic credibility. Don't encourage law firms to do announcement-worthy things just because it'll up your traffic.
38 - which firm?
thx
NOTE: We have to comment on the ATL suit on this post, because comments are disabled on the subsequent one. Dear Lat--I hope you SLAPP that dude.
Has anyone at Winston actually heard which third they are in?
Yeah can we talk about the ATL suit. Is it a good idea for Lat to post the complaint?
Lat,
Take note that the complaint against you spells our current president's name incorrectly.
52 - I will out the firm if/when I get re-deferred/revoked.
Lat
You run a blog for lawyers and law students. Do you really expect us to believe that you closed comments out of respect for the judicial process? Really? Would you actually like us if we believed that?
SMU JD
This comment is addressed to the editor in chief of this site.
It is of my opinion that you will prevail against Professor Jones in his meritless lawsuit. I am sure you have already contacted the EFF and confirmed that the law is on your side. Do not let this temporary setback impede your operation of this site. That is all.
Professor Jones's complaint is ridiculous. It makes me sick that this guy is teaching the youth of our nation and spouting his load of crap on a daily basis.
I have no doubt Lat and abovethelaw will prevail. If not, I will no longer believe in the American legal system.
And to think, even after Lats twitter piss fests, It is something he, not elie, did that bit him in the ass. The only way this show could be more entertaining is if the suit ended up under a presiding judge like Halverson.
Lat, you should offer to dryclean this guy's pants.
Confirms my suspicion that firms need to cut roughly 50% of their Class of 2009 associates.
Like Creigh Deeds and Corzine, Prof. Jones is trying to ride the coattails of Obama. His complaint is looking for sympathy that Lat had dare disparage The One so therefore Lat is a racist and disparaged Prof. Jones. UM to T14 with this logic. Bye Bye Gtown.
the typos in this complaint are out of control
57 - no you won't. You'll hold out hope for Jan 2011, etc.
You're already clearly somewhat nuts, since you think the firm will ID you posting from home.
54- I haven't. Another question: does anyone know if we still have to give all the stipend money back if we take a different job? Unlike the original deferral letter, there is no clawback provision in this one. I feel a little awkward emailing Joe Torres that question.
Having read Prof. Jones's complaint, as a black person, let the AA jokes commence. Thanks for making us look bad, bro. Who spells Barack Obama wrong? I mean, really?
Lat, is your boyfriend a lawyer too?
"Plaintiff demands a trial by jury on all issues that are friable"
The editing of this complaint is laughable. I doubt Jones intends the forthcoming issues to be "easily crumbled."
"Plaintiff demands a trial by jury on all issues that are friable"
The editing of this complaint is laughable. I doubt Jones intends the forthcoming issues to be "easily crumbled."
"Plaintiff demands a trial by jury on all issues that are friable"
The editing of this complaint is laughable. I doubt Jones intends the forthcoming issues to be "easily crumbled."
This complaint is badly written. Eg, contains incomplete sentences. What happens when one deals with AA beneficiaries.
Thanks 70. It was funny the first time.
prominent blacks such as michael jackson?
is he black?
jones does not have an official arrest history IN FLORIDA. why the qualification?
61 - Lat probably enjoys having teeth placed on his posteriour regions. Unless the walrus is hungry again.
I am not a litigator, but I don't understand the complaint against Above the Law.
First, is it really appropriate to include phrases like "to the tune of" in a court pleading? Also, isn't he supposed to explain where he came up with the $2 million and $20 million?
Also, all the statements about racism confuse me. Is it against the law to make racist comments? Why does he keep saying that Above the Law is racist? What is the purpose of listing the other famous black people that Above the Law has mocked?
Last question. Why doesn't the complaint cite to any authority (case law or otherwise) when it describes the three counts? Is that not supposed to be part of the compliant? Or is there another document he will submit that will include the legal support for his complaint?
Please no more comments on the lawsuit. Too boring.
Besides the obvious typos, the substance of the complaints are a little dubious. Florida no longer recognizes cause 1; how posting an arrest that took place on a public street invades one's privacy is curious; holy fair use defense!
54, 67 -- Ha! Let Winston sue us, let them win, and let them try to collect on their judgment. I will have no high paying job, no assets, an enormous amount of debt, and I may even have been adjudged insolvent, who knows. What I'm trying to say is, I am not worrying about paying back that money, and you shouldn't either unless you are independently wealthy (and if you are why did you go to law school?).
"due to a desire to respect the judicial process"
Does this mean you will close comments to other pending lawsuits as well, or only the ones against ATL? :)
The ship be sinking...
78 = clueless 3L
WOW, that complaint is unreal. And I thought Mystal's butchering of the English language was bad. What the hell is up with the spacing on that thing?
78-I thought he included too much in the way of case law. The complaint should state the jurisdictional basis, the facts as he sees them (each fact nicely laid out in its own numbered paragraph), and then in the various causes of action he should lay out how the facts he already pleaded fit into the elements of each cause of action against each defendant. Then he should state his damages, whatever he claims them to be. What a joke.
Lat,
We will represent ATL for free if you remove the defamatory post about our firm from yesterday.
Sullivan & Cromwell
S & C,
Would you employ the fool-proof "default judgment defense" that the commenters in the Pepsi thread are advocating?
You know, just ignore it, let them get a default, and then run up the bills trying to enforce it. All the cool kids are doing it.
-ATL
Is Lat the gay homosexual lawyer guy or the walrus?
57 Just a guess: Proskauer
I thought the complaint was funny. If I went to or was affiliated with UM Law I would be very embarrassed.
Nice 81! Thank you Winston, I am judgment proof. Enjoy.
So does that mean you're giving up on Winston's sweet promises of future employment and looking for another gig? Winston is starting to feel like my last boyfriend. How long should I wait around before deciding this loser is never going to come through and it's time to move on with my life? Assuming another job could be found, that is. . .
So does UM now have a false light claim against Jones for making it look like a shitty law school that hires professors who can't even write a complete sentence?
93 - No, because "false light" is not a cognizable claim in Florida. . . which just makes that complaint even more awesome.
90 - Nope, Proskauer is not the firm that is about to ruin my life.
I am truly in shock about how late the firms have waited--and are waiting--to "deal" with the January starters. Any guesses on which firm is next?
95,
Mayer Brown.
Lat,
Thanks
-6
what happened to that tall chinese lawyer with the glasses in winston's finance group? was he gay?
Professor Jones should have put "Dictated but not read" at the end of his complaint.
This guy is a tenured professor at the U. of Miami. Imagine how poorly the football players must write.
I thought it was racist to use "blacks" or "a black" as a noun. Elie - what says you?
Three observations: (1) does this guy seriously teach law classes; (2) what the eff, NYU; (3) as a self-proclaimed celebrity (con law guru and "highly sought after speaker") shouldn't he realize public criticism is part of the turf? Dude is mad that he got caught trying to pick up a prostitute and now brings an ridiculous lawsuit. Wow.
Three observations: (1) does this guy seriously teach law classes; (2) what the eff, NYU; (3) as a self-proclaimed celebrity (con law guru and "highly sought after speaker") shouldn't he realize public criticism is part of the turf? Dude is mad that he got caught trying to pick up a prostitute and now brings a ridiculous lawsuit. Wow.
99 wins.
95,
Milbank
"This combines, defamation, false light, invasion of privacy and racism."
OMG
Jones' complaint is an utter embarrassment.
Although, I think he worked at JaKe's father's firm before starting his teaching career.
When is the W&S London office supposed to close?
mwe
Proskauer
CravaTTTh.
Ropes and Gray is nexttt
My guesses on which firms will follow the re-deferral trend:
1. Mayer Brown
2. Milbank
3. Dewey
*Ropes strikes me as the type of firm that will honor its commitments.
92, I love the analogy. To take it further, I would suggest that the stipend is like some decent sex, nothing great, but good enough and so easily accessible not to give up on the relationship. And Winston is way better looking and more successful than me, so my hopes of finding a better mate are slim to nil. At the same time, my standards are falling so maybe I'll start having sex with the anyone that comes along, as in jobs in another field. And if I come across someone truly desperate for me, then it would surely boost my ego (which needs it) by having my way with her in the sack, even if a long lasting relationship is unlikely (hmmm...maybe a bartending job in costa rica is truly desperate for me).
Right now I'm in a holding pattern though, until I find out ("shortly") which 1/3 I'm in.
Where is Mrs. Lat to comment on the lawsuit against her son and whether it is connected to his lifestyle choices?
My guess is we'll be able to divide all firms into two groups by Thanksgiving--those that will honor January start dates and those that won't. Given the efforts that most firms go through for new associate orientation, they either already know or will decide in the next week whether 2009 associates will be starting in January.
I don't think WS is particularly indicative of the legal market as a whole, unless there's just one or two really dedicated trolls here in the comments giving WS a really bad name undeservedly.
102: NYU? I didn't see that.
Please, oh please, don't let Jones be an NYU Law grad.
WCD, NYU Law mid 70s
112 def. add Proskauer
Heard a rumor that W&S had to extend the deferral when they learned the Olympics weren't coming to Chicago. Apparently that was going to be a nice little revenue boost to bridge the gap to 2010.
116: Well, in the mid-70s, he was likely your classmate. http://www.law.miami.edu/facadmin/mjones.php?letter=J
"J.D. 1976, New York University"
Good point 118. Another costly Obama failure.
FYI - Ropes is starting on time.
121 - How do you know this? Firms are just now telling their incoming associates that they won't be starting in January.
What have you heard from Ropes?
122 - orientation email.
Describe this email. I have received communications mentioning it, but no real confirmation.
122 -
My firm told us in March confirming we would start in the fall of '09 despite what many other firms were doing.
- Deferred
122 - My firm contacted us in March confirming that we were still starting fall '09, despite what so many other firms were doing.
We got deferred anyways.
124 - this could get interesting. It sounds like you're an incoming Ropes associate. If you are (or if you're "really good friends with someone who is"), did you get an orientation email?
127 - You misunderstood. My firm (not Ropes) did not send a specific orientation email. I am curious about what Ropes said in their recent message to incomings.
125/126 -
There would be a BIG difference between hearing that "everything is OK" in March (many months in advance) and getting information regarding orientation and travel arrangements in October or November for a January start date.
128 - 126's misunderstanding was quite understandable, considering your statement in 124.
Why are you so afraid to name your firm?
122, 124, 128:
Many firms with January start dates have been in communication with their incoming associates. The communications range from, "we're excited to welcome you . . . here are some things you need to know," to, "Please register and book your travel arrangement by X date."
Think of it this way - now is the time that firms will be "getting ready" for their incoming associates. Has your firm taken any steps to put the process in motion?
Adding to 131: Had Winston had any communications with incoming associates to reconfirm the January start date? Or was this the first the incoming associates had really heard from the firm for a while?
129 -
There is a difference, but it's not that BIG. Copying last year's form letter about orientation isn't exactly a binding committment.
I heard some Nixon Peabody under-performers were recently hired by W&S. What an irony: While some poor law-grads are getting deferred, some hillbillies are hired to try to keep the ship afloat.... Good luck W&S.... Enjoy your new folks over there... at least for the next 2-3 years before their next jump....
129 -
There is a difference, but it's not that BIG. Copying last year's form letter about orientation isn't exactly a binding committment.
Pillsbury is carrying the same deadbeat doughboys...
Craziness. As I was reading these comments (and growing concerned that I had not heard from my firm in a while), I get an email from my firm about moving expenses.
I realllly don't think they would send this if they planned on deferring again. Time to plan my move, y'all.
128 (Deferred for Life),
It's really obvious by reading your posts at 112, 122, and 124 that Ropes is your firm. Don't be such a pussy about it.
-- Not 126 or 130
This sub-market deferral package is a slap to the face. It's enough so that you need to go find a paying job, which necessarily cannot be legal because of your agreement and the market. So, in a year, you will be an old rusty hack with no transferable skills. Good luck getting back into law in 2 years after being an administrative assistant somewhere.
137
"I realllly don't think they would send this if they planned on deferring again."
Winston sent us this email about a month ago. Hope that helps.
140 - So they encouraged you to move right before re-deferring you?
119:
OK, I was not class of 76, but I was there when he was there.
However, the link you posted states that he is a "public intellectual". Pretty impressive.
116
Anyone know how the new trade group that came over from Heller is doing at Winston?
"Please be assured that the Firm is performing well and positioned to remain one of the preeminent law firms, even in this challenging economy."
Phew! What a relief!
For a second I was worried that Winston was doing this because they were unable to keep up with other "preeminent" law firms; you know, the ones who have not deffered associates.
95 - how can you be such a complete pansy? What is the difference whether you start on time when you can be terminated at any time for no reason? Your incessant sniveling is tough to take, especially from a "man".
Does everyone join me in the fervent hope that Deferred For Life truly does get deferred for life? What a moron.
We join you 146
95
McDermott will be next.
95, 148
Winston will be next, with a re-re-deferral tomorrow.
You are crazy if you think deferrals and re-deferrals are your biggest problem. Read the NYT story on Stanley Works and Black & Decker merging to save on overhead. It might be a great deal for the firms that are papering the deal, but it sets forth an inescapable vision of the future: the US economy is shrinking. Even less manufacturing, even less finance, even less R&D than before.
So unless you enjoy landlord-tenant disputes where your client will pay you $5/week for the next couple of years, you are screwed (to be blunt). (ATL really should do a story what lawyers in formerly high-flying now second rate cities are doing (Cleveland, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Buffalo come to mind).)
It's time to rethink that going to law school and being set for life crap and think about some non-legal career options. Or, of course, you can keep whining about being re-deferred until 2012, when the next Presidential Election will be held.
148 - ya think? last i heard, they were doing awesome.
150, how in the hell could you possibly consider Chicago a second rate city? Chicago is the third most populated city in this country. You're mindless.
Anyone hearing anything about the Charlotte office? I'm told that those partners don't expect much by way of job security once their 2-year deals expire in January.
So when are they going to announce the thirds?
My firm has started conflict checks.
My firm has started a conflict
winston cigarettes suck. go cubs!
Goddammit, all those lawyer jokes are true!!!
anyone heard yet?
October.
October
Ummm.... who's slated for February? Seems like it was a completely random and arbitrary division.