4:33 - I don't know, second seems high. A lot of people waffled between Fordham and Hofstra at 3rd, but Hofstra ended up with a slight edge. Columbia and NYU were clearly 1-2, though (with a few respondents ranking NYU number 1). I'm not out to sell magazines, so I'm not going to just randomly put Hofstra in the top 2 to make a fake controversy, though.

My ranking from best legal education to worst:

1) Reading a scrap of paper torn out of the Black's Law Dictionary.
2) Watching Judge Judy.
3) Watching Judge Judy with the volume off.
4) Hofstra.

HofstraMagna, the only thing worse than your jokes are Wayne Chrebet's headaches.

Assuming you are not flame, realize that most law firms allow you to sort lawyers by their alma mater. Pick a few large, nyc-based sweatshops along the Vault rankings, run a few searches, and see what you get. This is a far better method than relying on anecdotal information.

No way Hofstra is over Fordham....

CUNY goes in the 3rd tier. You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger joke of a school.

Fordham is waaaaaaay better tham Hofstra.

(Can't... beleive... I'm... actually.... bothering.... to.... comment on this lame post)

This post is a total joke.

Hofstra should be just ahead of NYLS.

Rutgers and Seton Hall should be ahead of Hofstra.

CUNY should be last.

um, written by Hofstra 2L, clearly?

Generic snarky comment

Unless you want to work alongside the Meadowbrook, Hofstra is definitely not number 3
NYLS location wise is leaps and bounds above Hofstra. NYLS actually has many ties to biglaw if thats what you are looking at, might not be easy to get into - but the ties are there...

CUNY should probably be number one on the list, of course depending what you want to do. If you just want a law degree, CUNY is easy on the pocket!

But, I agree other than that CUNY should be tied for last with Touro.

This would be my break down from what I've learned lately:

TOP TIER - (biglaw foams at the mouth for 1&2 not so sure about 3&4...)
1) Columbia
2) NYU
3) Fordham
4) Cardozo

SECOND TIER (work your ass off in any of these and make connections, not fully impossible to get a job - just need to put in more work!)

5) Brooklyn (my opinion is that i hate the location)
6) St. John's (campus is nice - very pretty girls walkin' round)
7) NYLS (TriBeCa...trendy, expensive - but could be fun...)
8) Hofstra (Long Island schools shouldnt count)
9) Pace (yeah, probably should be tier 3)

THIRD TIER (depends your goals...remember not everyone wants biglaw) [i dont think it matters which of these you go to...]
10) CUNY
10) Touro
10) Rutgers (Newark)
10) Seton Hall

Both of the Jersey schools are better than the entire second tier, except Brooklyn, to which they are equals.

Cardozo does not belong in the top tier. Here is my breakdown:

FIRST TIER:

1) Columbia
2) NYU
3) Fordham

SECOND TIER:

4) Brooklyn
T5) Seton Hall
T5) Cardozo
7) St. John's
8) Rutgers

THIRD TIER:

9) NYLS
T10) Hofstra
T10) Pace
T10) CUNY
T10) Touro

2:39 is right, although I might actually give Cardozo the edge over Seton Hall. Whoever wrote this post is clearly a Hofstra troll. Anyone who goes to Hofstra over Fordham is, barring extenuating circumstances, an idiot.

Okay, I can understand the dispute over putting Hofstra 3rd over Fordham maybe, because some of the respondents did note that Fordham is 3rd, however to put Hofstra any lower than 4th is sheer lunacy. And to put Hofstra in the same group as or below the Jersey schools is a serious sign of disrespect. Hofstra is clearly the best school on Long Island, and Long Island is a million times better than Jersey.

3:18:

They are about even because Seton Hall placed very well this year. Also, I have a friend who is a 2L at Cardozo, top 33%, and without a job. I know it's only one guy, but it kind of soured me on the placement capabilities of the school a little bit, even though they have the one-up in the US News rankings.

-2:39

For anyone interested, here are the US News rankings:

TIER 1:

4) NYU
5) Columbia
25) Fordham

TIER 2:

52) Cardozo
60) Brooklyn
70) Seton Hall
70) St. John's
77) Rutgers (Newark)

TIER 3:

Everyone else, crap schools are not ranked.

4:18 - I guess you haven't heard the news yet. Hofstra is in the top 100. The US News rankings are trash.

http://law.hofstra.edu/NewsAndEvents/PressReleases/pressreleases_20080403.html

Hofstra at 99. My mistake.

Also, CUNY is the only Tier 4 of the bunch.

Pace, NYLS, and Touro are all Tier 3.

Cardozo over Brooklyn? Cardozo is equal to Brooklyn in the eyes of a lot of people. Cardozo lacks the alum base. It is a good school but it is no way better than Brooklyn. Look at any of the v100 firms, most of them have way more BLS alums.

Take Sullivan Cromwell - they have 16 from BLS and like 2 from Cardozo. A lot of firms do not even list Cardozo as a school option.

Though this post is obviously a joke, many of the comments seem to seriously be attempting to rate these schools. In terms of biglaw placement, though, I think Rutgers-Newark is getting shortchanged. It places 15% of its graduates in NLJ 250 firms, putting it ahead of Cardozo, St. John's, Brooklyn, Seton Hall, Hofstra, NYLS, Pace, CUNY and Touro.

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_NY.pdf

Agree with 8:46. I know plenty of RU-Nwk grads who went on to biglaw as summers / 1st yr assoc and plenty who didn't, mainly b/c RU appeals to people who are looking to practice public interest law and have no interest in biglaw.

In reality, the rankings should look more like this:

TIER 1:
4) NYU
5) Columbia

TIER 2:
25) Fordham

TIER 3:
52) Cardozo
60) Brooklyn
70) Seton Hall
70) St. John's
77) Rutgers (Newark)
99) Hofstra

TIER 4:
Everyone else, crap schools are not ranked.

1:58 is right, but I would streamline the rankings a little bit more...

TIER 1:
4) NYU
5) Columbia

TIER 2 (i.e., questionable):
25) Fordham

TTT/everyone else: find another profession.

"Okay, I can understand the dispute over putting Hofstra 3rd over Fordham maybe, because some of the respondents did note that Fordham is 3rd, however to put Hofstra any lower than 4th is sheer lunacy. And to put Hofstra in the same group as or below the Jersey schools is a serious sign of disrespect. Hofstra is clearly the best school on Long Island, and Long Island is a million times better than Jersey."

Delusional much, HM? Hofstra is possibly the worst law school on the list. Maybe Touro saves it from that distinction. Nobody gets hired into BigLaw or any reputable government position out of that school. If it's not too late, transfer. If you're a 3L, begin your plans to marry up.

Incidentally, do you have a job lined up? If so, where? Quiet all the cynics w/ some empirical evidence, if you can.

Hey 2:43 - I don't need to transfer because I already graduated. I have been looking into getting a summer associate position this summer before I go to Zarb this fall, so I don't have a job right now, but it won't be long, and you'll be shining my shoes, loser.

"Hey 2:43 - I don't need to transfer because I already graduated. I have been looking into getting a summer associate position this summer before I go to Zarb this fall, so I don't have a job right now, but it won't be long, and you'll be shining my shoes, loser. "

Thanks for answering my question re: your being delusional.

3Ls don't get SA positions, you fucktard. That is, unless, you've already summered at the firm as a 2L and plan to return there in the fall - and most firms will just give you a summer stipend instead of forcing you to actually work. And don't you think May 13 - when most SAs have already started working - is a little late to be figuring that shit out, in any case?

Maybe the Hofstra OCS staff didn't make that clear. Maybe they were too busy shopping around their resumes on Monster to get their TTTTTT asses out of Long Island.

It's ok that you're stupid. Just own it.

Btw, Zarb, isn't that a beauty school?

...but I'm assuming you knew all that already, which is why you're trying to pick up the pieces of your shattered self-esteem by proclaiming Hofstra's alleged virtues. I have friends who went to Hofstra. they went there b/c they got full rides; they don't pretend the school was worth shit. so they got what they paid for.

you might be right that Hofstra is the best LS in Long Island. but that's like saying your shit smells better than that of a homeless crackhead w/ the runs. in the end, the distinction is hardly worth mentioning.

4:02 and 4:08 - I graduated from Hofstra last year moron, I'm not just some noob 3L, hence "magna," in my name, idiot.

Zarb is the Business School at Hofstra. I'm going there in the fall. I have been shopping my resume to see if any firm would be interested in hiring me now before I go to B-School, I'm just testing the waters to see if I even want to practice law.

When I graduate from Zarb, I'm probably going into either private equity or i-banking, but I wanted to give law firm life one shot. Your "friends" who went to Hofstra must be mouthbreathers, like you. When I'm working at Goldman or KKR, you'll be lucky to be the janitor for the biglaw associate I'll be bossing around.

"4:02 and 4:08 - I graduated from Hofstra last year moron, I'm not just some noob 3L, hence "magna," in my name, idiot."

Glad to see you finally got the spelling of "moron" right. You're making progress!! Who said you can't teach a TTT law school flunkie new tricks?

"Zarb is the Business School at Hofstra. I'm going there in the fall. I have been shopping my resume to see if any firm would be interested in hiring me now before I go to B-School, I'm just testing the waters to see if I even want to practice law."

My guess is "no." Law firms are tightening their belts in all areas. It's unlikely they're going to go outside their track system to hire a soul-searching, no-job-having, TTT'er. Sorry.

"When I'm working at Goldman or KKR, you'll be lucky to be the janitor for the biglaw associate I'll be bossing around. "

In the meantime, I'm making six figures as the associate you always aspired to be, but couldn't. Good luck with that, and make sure you put down the bong long enough to take some notes in class, or "clinic" or whatever kind of instruction method beauty schools have nowadays.

2:54 - I make 30k a year and I can see this is a flame, a joke, and an amusing commentary on the TTT system.

4:03, I thought so too, until I checked out HM's profile, and all of his commentary. I think the guy is legit.

No way Hofstra is better than Fordham.

I went to school in Boston BTW, so I have no horse in this race...

606, you thought this guy was legit??? From reading his commentaries?

Oh,jeez.

1:54, yes, legit - in the sense that he was serious. either he has a lot of time and energy invested in this "joke" or he's a seriously delusional person.

HofstraMagna - in all honesty, I really think that you have a future in comedy. You deadpan very well and have just enough "pretend stupidity" to get people to respond to your posts seriously even though if anyone really thought about it, there's no way you're actually really who you say you are.

Lat is looking for a new writer. I'd vote for you.

Sincerely,

Laughing my ass off as I read this thread.

i have to stop reading this site. i prefer to think that my profession isn't overflowing with entitled elitist snobbery, regardless of the reality.

I actually made my own rankings. Cornell was the best school in NYS, followed by St. John's and then Albany, which were all in Tier 1. The Hof was the third worst school (top of Tier 4) in NY, beating out only CUNY and TTTouro

The Cat pisses on you.

This thread cracks me up.

Where would you rank Albany on this?

My rankings:
1) Cornell
2) Columbia
3) NYU
4) Fordham
5) Cardozo
6) St. John's
7) Albany
8) Syracuse
9) Brooklyn
10) Buffalo
11) NYLS
12) Pace
13) CUNY
14) Touro
15) Cooley
16) HofsTTTra

This is out of control. That last post with the 16 rankings is way off. Albany isn't even in the top 100 schools, and Hofstra is. Explain to me then how it ranked 7 on your list... Ahead of Brooklyn? No way. And I have to back up Hof for a minute. I graduated from Hofstra and started out making $165,000 a year. Granted, I was the top of my class, but I'm not going to complain about that. I loved the school. Shit on it all you want, but I'm doing better than friends that I had that graduated from Fordham, Albany AND NYU.

And p.s. - if you're going to make fun of people for their spelling, then at least learn how to differentiate between "your" and "you're"... I personally feel that is much worse than misspelling moron. If you're the kind of person that shares my profession, that no wonder why I'm doing so well.

This is out of control. That last post with the 16 rankings is way off. Albany isn't even in the top 100 schools, and Hofstra is. Explain to me then how it ranked 7 on your list... Ahead of Brooklyn? No way. And I have to back up Hof for a minute. I graduated from Hofstra and started out making $165,000 a year. Granted, I was the top of my class, but I'm not going to complain about that. I loved the school. Shit on it all you want, but I'm doing better than friends that I had that graduated from Fordham, Albany AND NYU.

And p.s. - if you're going to make fun of people for their spelling, then at least learn how to differentiate between "your" and "you're"... I personally feel that is much worse than misspelling moron. If you're the kind of person that shares my profession, no wonder why I'm doing so well.

The Hof graduates students with terrible bar passage rates and bad job placement. Those that do get good jobs--and there are a significant number of them, like yourself--get the good jobs because they are naturally smart, and in spite of having attended HofsTTTra. They would have learned more at another school and been in even better shape.

Albany has terrible undergrad GPA's and LSAT's, but their graduates have a better bar passage and job placement than the Hof. Those that do well do well because of what the school added to them. It's starting salaries are about $20k lower, but this is generally because the cost of living is much cheaper upstate.

Brooklyn admits students with excellent credentials, but it does not place very well in larger firms. It turns good students into mediocre ones. HofsTTTra turns good students into mediocre graduates as well. Albany turns mediocre students into decent, if not good, graduates.

Fordham and NYU students do wel because they are naturally smart as well, not necessarily because of the quality of their schools' instruction.

The Hof graduates students with terrible bar passage rates and bad job placement. Those that do get good jobs--and there are a significant number of them, like yourself--get the good jobs because they are naturally smart, and in spite of having attended HofsTTTra. They would have learned more at another school and been in even better shape.

Albany has terrible undergrad GPA's and LSAT's, but their graduates have a better bar passage and job placement than the Hof. Those that do well do well because of what the school added to them. It's starting salaries are about $20k lower, but this is generally because the cost of living is much cheaper upstate.

Brooklyn admits students with excellent credentials, but it does not place very well in larger firms. It turns good students into mediocre ones. HofsTTTra turns good students into mediocre graduates as well. Albany turns mediocre students into decent, if not good, graduates.

Fordham and NYU students do well because they are naturally smart as well, not necessarily because of the quality of their schools' instruction.

The Hof graduates students with terrible bar passage rates and bad job placement. Those that do get good jobs--and there are a significant number of them, like yourself--get the good jobs because they are naturally smart, and in spite of having attended HofsTTTra. They would have learned more at another school and been in even better shape.

Albany has terrible undergrad GPA's and LSAT's, but their graduates have a better bar passage and job placement than the Hof. Those that do well do well because of what the school added to them. It's starting salaries are about $20k lower, but this is generally because the cost of living is much cheaper upstate.

Brooklyn admits students with excellent credentials, but it does not place very well in larger firms. It turns good students into mediocre ones. HofsTTTra turns good students into mediocre graduates as well. Albany turns mediocre students into decent, if not good, graduates.

Fordham and NYU students do well because they are naturally smart as well, not necessarily because of the quality of their schools' instruction.

Brooklyn does not place well at firms? Check the stats buddy. Go to firms website and see how many partners and associates are from BLS.

I just went through the OCI process and I can tell you that people in the top 15% got offers (even in this hellhole of an economy).

I'm in the top 10% and I will be off to a V10 firm next summer. Plenty of my friends will be doing the same.

Rankings:

1) Syracuse (GO BIDEN!)
2) Columbia
3) NYU
4) Who cares?

As an attorney with some experience in practice, I note that "BigLaw" is not the only type of legal career that counts, and that students from lower-ranked schools who work hard can have impressive careers and make significant contributions to society. The USNWR rankings should be discounted to some extent, since they overweight things like alumni donations, and underweight quality of faculty, student body and publications. For those who have mentioned Cornell, Syracuse, Albany and Buffalo, please note that the original post concerned schools in the NYC metro area, not NY State (although Cornell is a fine school, and would outrank most of those in the NYC metro area other than Columbia and NYU). With those caveats, my own subjective list:

Top tier:
1 - Columbia
2 - NYU

Second tier:
3 - Fordham
4 - Brooklyn
5 - St. John's
6 - Rutgers
7 - Cardozo
8 - Seton Hall
9 - Hofstra

Other:
10 - Pace
11 - Touro
12 - CUNY
13 - NYLS

There is clearly room for reasonable people to debate the respective rankings of schools in the second tier. In the course of my career, I have seen a number of hard-working graduates of mid-ranked schools do well, both in their careers and in life; and it is not all that unusual to see determined graduates of lower-ranked schools outperform lackadaisical graduates of higher-ranked schools. If the originator of this post worked hard enough to graduate magna from Hofstra Law, and intends to obtain an MBA as well as a law degree, he may well end up having some success in business law, even though I don't share his personal assessment of the relative ranking of Hofstra compared with other schools.

I have no wish to insult any of these schools or their graduates, and would consider that to be unprofessional and immature. It is pointless to heap gratuitous abuse on schools that have produced some highly productive attorneys. Having said that, it is neither highly credible nor persuasive to rank Hofstra ahead of Fordham, Brooklyn or St. John's; or to rank NYLS in the same category as those schools or Hofstra.

NYLS is # 5 (July 2008 NY Bar Pass Rate) ahead of Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. Johns, Hofstra, Pace, Touro, CUNY etc... ...#1 Cornell, #2Columbia, #3 NYU, #4Fordham, #5 NYLS (94% pass rate).

I don't think it's the worst school.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nylj/PubArticleFriendlyNY.jsp?hubtype=&id=1202426496694

Schools worth going to:

1. Columbia
2. NYU

Schools to go to if you can't do better on your LSAT retake and really really want to be a lawyer:

3. Fordham

If you can't get into a marginal school like Fordham, go find another career.