Andrea Kramer (Andie) and Alton Harris (Al) are committed to preventing and combating the discriminatory consequences of gender stereotypes in the legal industry. Based in Chicago, Andie and Al are married and former law partners. Andie is a partner in the international law firm McDermott Will & Emery LLP, where she is head of the firm’s Financial Products, Trading and Derivatives Group, and she is a founding chair of the firm’s Gender Diversity Committee. Al was a founding partner of the Chicago law firm of Ungaretti & Harris, which later merged into the national law firm of Nixon Peabody LLP.

Together, Al and Andie wrote the book, “Breaking Through Bias: Communication Techniques for Women to Succeed to Work,” published in 2016. They have presented three programs with Lawline: Steps to Eliminate Bias in the Legal Profession, Overcoming Gender Bias in the Legal Profession and Overcoming Age Bias in the Legal Profession. Here, they share their tips on the future of their industry and what attorneys and legal organizations can do to increase women’s advancement in the legal profession.

You both practice in the area of financial markets and derivative products. What does the future of your corner of the legal profession look like?

Andie and Al: It’s difficult to say what financial regulatory law will look like going forward. Things are so up for grabs with the current administration in Washington that only time will tell if the financial sector will face major changes. What is much clearer to us, however, is that the legal profession as a whole must change; it needs to improve its diversity and increase its inclusiveness. Where are the senior women? People of color? People who are different from the white men who are in the key leadership roles? Focusing just on women, we need role models to show our young female lawyers they can be successful and that there are ways to deal with the gender biases they encounter. They need mentors with whom they can share their successes and frustrations, coaches to keep them focused and moving in the right direction, and sponsors to push for their advancement.

How can women best deal with gender biases in the workplace?

Andie: Explicit gender bias is, thankfully, very rare today. The real problem for women is implicit or unconscious gender bias. Even the best-intentioned organizations are affected by implicit gender bias.

Al: It’s important for women to understand gender stereotypes, how those stereotypes foster gender biases, and how those biases hold women back. Once they have that knowledge, women can develop responses that will effectively avoid or overcome those biases. It’s a matter of learning to communicate in ways that display their confidence and competence, without being seen as unpleasant or aggressive. In our book, we discuss effective communication techniques to avoid or overcome these biases.

What role should men, and legal organizations generally, play in combating these biases?

Al: It’s important to recognize that in “Breaking Through Bias” we’re not “blaming the victims” or placing the entire burden of increasing gender diversity on women. Rather, we are saying that, despite the presence of gender bias, women can take matters into their own hands. They don’t need to wait for the world to change. But men have a role to play, too. The first thing they must do is to “get it.” They must understand how much tougher it is for women to advance in the law than it is for men because of gender bias. Unfortunately, studies show that only about 13 percent of male lawyers believe gender bias is an obstacle in their profession. That’s where we need to start: getting men to realize that even the best legal organizations have practices and policies that discriminate against women. Once men wake up to that fact, they should be able to behave in ways that advocate for women and equalize the career opportunities that they control. One way to accomplish these objectives is to objectively complete performance evaluations, give out assignments, and decide on promotions. Organizations can do this if they precisely identify what skills and accomplishments are relevant and carefully determine who has these qualities.

Why do you teach CLE programs?

Andie: I have benefited from the kindness of senior lawyers willing to help me. When I started my career, I joined a small start-up firm as its only tax lawyer. The lawyers I worked with had a good understanding of the tax laws and, when needed, the firm would hire another law firm to review my work or supervise me. This provided me with the safety net I needed as the firm’s sole tax lawyer. It was the kindness of other Chicago tax lawyers that allowed me to develop my substantive skills. I joined the Chicago Bar Association’s Tax Committee, and I developed an informal network of experienced lawyers to bounce off ideas. At the beginning, I was always the one asking for their help. Over time, however, questions started to be directed to me. Teaching CLE programs is a way to pay it forward for the kindness I received so many years ago.

Al: I teach to raise gender awareness. Women need to understand biases in the workplace and men need to understand how tough it is for women because of them. Teaching CLE programs is an opportunity for me to reach out to a much broader audience and generate interest and excitement about a topic that needs a great deal more attention paid to it; the embers of a productive fire are there—they just need to be stoked.