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According to the hopes, wishes, and dreams of law school administrators, the end is near for disastrous application and plummeting enrollment numbers. No longer will admissions officers be forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel with “less able” candidates when it comes to putting butts in seats. Job offers will come before graduation, and they will be plentiful — ten months after graduation, entire classes will be employed in full-time, long-term jobs where bar passage is required. Struggles with law school debt will be a thing of the past, and frustrated graduates simply won’t exist.
Doesn’t that sound nice? Too bad it’s just a pipe dream.
Outside the dreamscape, applications have drastically declined since the end of the recession, and law schools are dealing with a 40-year low for enrollment. Despite the fact that graduating classes are smaller, making the numbers look better, law school administrators celebrate “great strides” in their graduates’ employability, popping bottles of champagne because 59.9 percent of graduates are employed as lawyers nationwide.
To make matters worse, law schools have to combat extremely negative publicity, like this:
I live in NoDa, a neighborhood about two miles from uptown Charlotte. When I woke up this morning I noticed a piece of paper on everyone’s window throughout the whole parking lot. I’m talking hundreds of cars. I don’t know if the disgruntled former Charlotte Law student went beyond this area to place the flyers — if so, we could be talking thousands of cars or more. It is clear that whoever did this did it in the dead of night.
This is the piece of paper that was plastered upon hundreds, if not thousands, of windshields overnight. Read it and weep for this (literally) poor law school graduate:
Perhaps this is one of the mystical “J.D. Advantage” jobs that career services officers speak so highly of when defending the fact that their graduates aren’t employed as lawyers.
Charlotte Law is a for-profit school that’s part of the evil empire that is better known as the InfiLaw System. The school received full accreditation from the American Bar Association just four years ago, in 2011. As of the 2013-2014 academic year, the total cost of a three-year J.D. degree from Charlotte Law was $123,792.00, while the median loan debt per graduate was $159,208.00. Just 34 percent of the class of 2014 was employed in full-time, long-term jobs where bar passage was required, but disappointing employment statistics like this have been a constant since the school was accredited. All of this easily searchable, damning information has been posted online for years.
Administrators at Charlotte Law may have been “lying” by telling students fantastical stories about graduates’ achievements in the job market, but we’re pretty sure that this frustrated and heavily indebted graduate was only lying to himself if he thought that he’d be one of the rare success stories out of this law school. Now, like so many law school graduates, this fellow will have to carry a debt albatross for the rest of his life.
Good on this graduate for attempting to spread the word that a costly education from Charlotte Law is a bad deal, but maybe next time, he ought to consider the fact that $200,000 of debt isn’t the only thing a Walmart employee’s salary can’t support. Like his law degree, these flyers were probably not worth the cost of the ink they were printed with.
Clean up on aisle three: this Charlotte Law grad’s life is in shambles all over the floor.
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I was going to make fun of his punctuation and grammar, but at the end of the day, the fact that deranged dumbasses like this are allowed to (I’m going to assume) borrow $200,000 to go to a three-year daycare is appalling.
I long for the day when the ABA is stripped in of its failed role in regulating these con games.
I’ll gladly take over for them.
-Leo, who would not take bribes from shit law schools
“I was going to make fun of his punctuation and grammar”
What, here? On ATL?
So what really is the Job of the ABA? I mean they set a floor for existing and make sure the school is actually teaching something but do we know people who graduate from their don’t know anything? I mean they likely don’t know as much as people from better schools but how much is that the students fault and not the schools? Now the school does not have the other things a law school needs prestige, contacts etc. but that is not the ABA’s concern is it?
College is a learning environment, not a teaching environment.
Well, if he’s willing to take less money but be able to say he works at a legal blog that is the publication of record for kiddie raping appellate clerks I think a certain hiring parter might have a great offer for him
burn. is that guy in jail yet? has jo pa gone to visit him?
Your statement shows your ignorance. Jo Pa didn’t rape any kids. He just got f**ked and then he died. A$$ho1e.
I normally wouldn’t bother, but oh well. Brocaine_Brandy above is referring to law clerk for a federal judge that was arrested for, and pled guilty to, solicitation of a minor for sex, or something like that. One of the regular contributors to this blog, Joe Patrice (aka “Jo Pa”), has, in some people’s opinion, minimized the significance of the clerk’s arrest and guilty plea. So my comment was a sarcastic inquiry as to whether the clerk has been imprisoned, and whether Joe Patrice has visited him there. This is a web site produced for lawyers and law students with hopefully highly trained analytical skills. Are your sure on the right site? Can I get my 3 minutes back?
Ms. Zaretsky, this is an excellent, hard-hitting article. It condenses in few words a wisdom far beyond your years.
I just thought I’d mention that before the nattering nabobs of nyah-nyah get in.
I love baby debtors. The shock, the entitlement, the belief that anybody cares. The wasting of precious family resources they soon won’t have access to.
The most beautiful thing friends is the lack of shame. The beautiful lack of shame. It’s like the fuzz atop a tot’s head before his first haircut. He’s seen the shame in the eyes of homeless vets, pregnant teenagers and employed men who still can’t provide for their family but he’s still special. He’s not ashamed. He didn’t serve, wasn’t raped, never worked a day in his life, but no HIS plight is special enough to warrant this flier (shocking the papers aren’t beating down his door for an interview).
If he stays away from E and K he just might make it on the street. I wouldn’t let him watch my back though.
My thoughts exactly
This guy isn’t looking at the big picture. He makes it sound like he traded $200,000 for $35,000. What he fails to recognize is that the $200,000 is a one-time cost, while $35,000 is a recurring benefit. If he keeps working at Walmart, he’ll have made the $200,000 back in less than six years. And that doesn’t even take into account the work experience, potential raises, free blue vests, and employee discounts on already competitive pricing. He should have consulted a calculator before plastering flyers all over town.
I’m going to assume there is sar..*looks at poster name* oh never mind.
If he keeps working at Walmart, he’ll have made the $200,000 back in less than six years. And that doesn’t even take into account the fact that there are other living expenses and interest to be paid on top of that which will nearly triple or quadruple the amount owed by the end of the first year. So while he MAY make that back in less than six years realistically he still WON’T be able to pay his loans off in less than six years.
Right, Staci, he should definitely have gone to a directional school of law in New England, where his future bright career in law would have been assured…well, I mean, as long as he could pass the bar, but, really, who can’t do that?
Is it too late for him to get an LLM in fashion? I hear those are in real high demand.
Well, as much as we make fun of Staci, she has essentially the same job as an NYU grad, a Harvard and Yale grad, and someone with TOO HARVARD DEGREEZ, and does it better than any of them….
I mostly like Staci’s work, but it’s pretty gross for her to be making fun of someone in this guy’s situation. This dude is her if she hadn’t met Lat.
Eh. There’s a difference between a crappy law school and a for-profit law school. And Staci may not have gone $200k into debt.
At that level, no, there isn’t, really. You’re going to get charged an absurd amount of money for pitiful job prospects. I personally am sympathetic to both Staci and the Wal-Mart guy, but it’s tacky for the former to dump on the latter.
Do we know that? Maybe she was planning on medical school. Parallel universe Staci might be a NeurosurgeonAstronaut.
Do they make rockets that big.
I’d almost trade biglaw for Wal Mart if it meant the stalking and underwear theft would stop.
-Anon former scotus clerk and V20 associate who wishes he hadn’t met Lat
On the other hand, she and Elie are a lot like this guy; none of them passed the bar.
Wall Mart counts as JD preferred right?
But…but…I’m a special snowflake! I should get a trophy just for showing up!
God I hate milleniluls
And we hate you
Still can’t wrap my head around the omnipresence of the “coulda looked it up on the Internet” line of argument. Perhaps s/he could have, but from a social policy standpoint, does that really mean we should turn a blind eye to third parties’ dissembling and “sharp practice” — especially when these parties are holding themselves out as part of a guild-system profession? Expensive barriers to entry and state-regulated membership, but hackneyed appeals to free markets and free choice whenever they suit the immediate need?
Oh, it’s a travesty…just like a lot of other things. Should we as a society do something about it? Of course. Do individuals who either got theirs or whose lives are already ruined care? No. Will we as a society do anything about it? Not while people are making money.
You’re just crushing your super liberal summer torts studying huh there champ?
Yes it does mean we should turn a blind eye. The only person responsible for you is you. I mean come on its the Charlotte school of law…they offered to let me go for free and I laughed…
Maybe if you had bothered to study for the bar, you could spend your time marketing rather than spending what little income you have on useless flyers.
Glad I didn’t study for the bar. Might have ended up as an attorney. What a nightmare.
“Administrators at Charlotte Law may have been “lying” by telling students fantastical stories about graduates’ achievements in the job market, but we’re pretty sure that this frustrated and heavily indebted graduate was only lying to himself if he thought that he’d be one of the rare success stories out of this law school. Now, like so many law school graduates, this fellow will have to carry a debt albatross for the rest of his life.”
Don’t be sexyist, Staci. There’s nothing in the flyer to indicate the student’s gender. Lots of women go to subpar law schools and can’t get employed as attorneys, too. Don’t you know anyone like that?
This is not a mentally stable person. How did you beat JoePa to posting it?
I saw JoePa writing a very similar message on the sidewalks around NYULS in Tribeca, I’m not sure what exactly he was writing with, but it looked an awful lot like feces.
Just leave the United States and go teach English abroad. That’s what I did after law school and I must say I love it. No more worrying about the debt, the life I missed out on, and, most importantly, being a lawyer. Many people will say “this won’t happen to me,” but I said the same thing, and I was wrong. It WILL happen to most of you as well. This guy is YOUR future. Do you really want to become this?
of course you still have to pay off your debt….best answer don’t go to law school to begin with unless you can get into a good one (make less than 160 on Lsat? Probably not worth your time).
Actually, just go on IBR. Don’t worry about the debt!
This is the worst advice I have read in ages. Teaching English is an eyesore for any resume, especially one that boasts an advanced degree. Yeah, go teach English for poverty level wages while the interest on your student loans go through the roof. When you come home to a vicious job market, two to three years outside your law school graduation date, try explaining to employers that you went on vacation for a few years to teach an unregulated subject that offers no real world value or experience unless you volunteer through Peace Corps or AmeriCorps.
Who said anything about “coming home?” I do not plan on it. I have found that, contrary to popular belief, that the world outside of the US is actually quite fantastic. And, you are probably not going to find a job either way (going back or staying), so why go through with the heartache of spending months/years searching for suitable employment and living with your parents? Also, with IBR, why worry about student loans at all?
Sigh…would feel bad for him except he is obviously an idiot. I mean FrOzt may not pick on his grammar and punctuation but I will. Can I buy a period? I mean Charlotte school of law offered to pay me to go and I LAUGHED. I mean the Walmart job he could probably get without even the undergrad degree he got assuming he did decent in high school.
We’re not going to read about it, but this kid is gonna default on his student loans… or the loan people are going to allow him a modified payment to fit his income (unless they are private loans). Either way, my gut feeling is that taxpayers will be picking up the cost… and not just on his loans. The student loan crisis is going to be the next big crash causer. It may be bigger than the mortgage crisis because there is no underlying property.
What a bunch of mouthbreathing feeders in these comments, and the author of this article. When the usual talking point regarding crushing student debt is something along the lines of “well dont get a degree in Advanced Cultural Basket Weaving,” at least this kid tried something marginally more useful. Yet, here are a bunch of random internet jagovs having a good ol schadenfreude circlejerk over it. The real joke is the arrogant d-bags thinking they’re doing any better with “professional” level salaries. Actually wealthy people with real resources make the same comments about you turds. You’re slightly more useful servants, with slightly more expensive stuff. I hope no one is mad.
He’s defeating his own argument mentioning that plush job at Walmart. Most people start well below $35k/year there, so the Charlotte Law JD is clearly worth something!
All that is necessary for lower echelon and for profit post secondary schools to justify the tuition that they charge is to make them financially responsible (as guarantors) for their student’s defaults.
At first I thought they were talking about Regent U…
I think this Charlotte Law grad is lying to us. Oh puh-lease. Like Walmart is really going to pay anybody $35,000 a year. That’s ridiculous. Let’s get real. We all know it’s more like $5,000.
Seems about right. Saw a classmate working at Target about a year after we graduated. Cut to 5 years later and he’s in security for Saks at a higher level.
I just rented an apartment from a guy who just graduated law school for like $450 bucks. He is working at a call center and had to move in with his girlfriend just to afford to pay his student loan. He is subleasing me this apartment just to cut back on the $450 I pay for the ultra cheap rent. This is outrageous and I feel bad for the guy. the ABA could end this nonsense by reducing the amount of accredited law schools, class sizes etc but instead keeps opening new law schools.
Since you wrote about this law graduate’s story, he apparently did get the cost of the ink covered..
When I applied to law school in 1998, I had two requirements:
1) Acceptance to a top 20 school; and
2) Receipt of sufficient aid (scholarship and/or grant) such that tuition was as close to zero as possible (I knew I’d be on my own for living expenses).
If those two conditions were not met, I would not go. It wasn’t worth the risk. In the end I was accepted to a top 10 program with a 100% scholarship.
It baffles me beyond words that people even attend schools such as Charlotte Law; much less borrow huge sums of money to do so.
If the best law school you can get into is Charlotte Law and you attend at full price, *you’re* just as much of the problem as the law school scam.
Law students and lawyers are not well known for having empathy for others. So why should anyone else feel sorry for them? Sure, they spent 100K on law school and have no job now. That’s their problem. They should deal with it. If putting out fliers is this man’s way of dealing, then more power to him. But I won’t be a shoulder for him to cry on.