We mentioned in Morning Docket that Harvard Law School is cutting back on loan forgiveness to students bound for public interest jobs. The news that HLS is gutting a major initiative that it started just last year is pretty shocking, and we figured you’d like to see the full email from HLS Dean Martha Minow.
First, some background on what HLS was going to do. The Public Service Initiative was launched in 2008. Under the program, HLS would waive 3L tuition for students that committed to public interest jobs for five years after graduation.
It was a pretty good idea. If you are running up the huge HLS bill but you don’t want to go into Biglaw — or BIglaw doesn’t want you — the program would allow you to take the job you want/can get without ruining your financial future.
The problem, apparently, was that way too many HLS students either decided to forgo Biglaw or couldn’t get in the door. The Harvard Crimson reports:
When the program was launched last fall, administrators were unsure how much student interest to expect. Yet, last year, over 110 first-year students indicated their interest in the program–50 percent more than the targeted number–according to then-Law School Dean Elena Kagan.
There are two main takeaways from this overwhelming response: 1) It sure seems like a lot of students end up in Biglaw not because they want to, but because it’s the only way for them to pay off their huge debts. What a surprise. 2) There are a whole lot of 1Ls — at the second best law school in the country — who don’t think they’ll be able to snag Biglaw jobs.
So in response to this information, HLS cuts the program. Brilliant. Let’s get some student reaction and look at Minow’s email after the jump.
Given that the program was a good idea and apparently a necessary idea, what should we make of the HLS decision to cut the program? One student figured it this way:
Harvard is broke. Broke. F***********!
Another student was concerned about the timing of the announcement:
As if [1Ls] didn’t have enough to worry about going into finals during a recession (and a day before the Dec. 1st start date for apps!).
And now it’s time for my obligatory advice: “if you are thinking of going to law school as a way to improve your economic situation, please think again.”
Below, the full email from HLS Dean Martha Minow.
HARVARD LAW SCHOOL — MEMO — STUDENT FINANCIAL AID
Dear students,
Faculty and staff at the school are mindful that the job market challenges for law students also bring new pressures on those of you–the vast majority of HLS students–who depend on financial aid. Fewer available jobs, lower salaries, deferred starting dates–all these things affect how much money students need to borrow, how soon students can begin repaying loans, and whether students can afford to pursue public interest and government jobs.
These are sobering and real challenges arising precisely at the same time that the school’s own resources are sharply constrained. We are doing all that we can to stretch shrinking resources and want to enable students to make plans, and where possible, reduce anxiety.
My purpose here is to give you an update about some adjustments to our financial aid programs, so that you know what to expect and can plan accordingly. Ken Lafler and our Student Financial Services staff will be able to answer more detailed questions about your personal situation, and to work with each of you individually.
As a threshold matter, although the endowment will produce $2.5M less in financial aid support than was expected 18 months ago, I have made sure that HLS nonetheless plans to increase its total financial aid spending by $2.7M.[1] With regard to need-based financial aid, I can happily say that the School is as committed to a strong and competitive need-based aid program as ever, and has no plans to reduce its base of need-based grant funding.
Beyond that, in order to make sure that the available funds equitably reach those with varied kinds of needs, we have reviewed every element of our financial aid program and have planned now some modifications to the levels and terms of assistance in some of our other programs of financial support, including LIPP, SPIF, and the Public Service Initiative (PSI). These are summarized below.
Low Income Protection Plan (LIPP)
HLS remains fully committed to the Low Income Protection Plan. Indeed, we are expanding its coverage in response to the current economy. Graduates–including deferred associates–who enter qualifying employment at any time can continue to count on help from LIPP to repay their eligible loans. In addition, we will expand LIPP benefits to help new graduates most in need. LIPP assistance has historically been available only to those working in paid positions. For the classes of 2010 and 2011, we will extend LIPP benefits to those working without pay in full-time public service positions that would otherwise be deemed “qualifying employment” under the terms of the program.
We recognize that many other law schools, facing this challenging time, are finding that they have to reduce benefits and are restructuring their loan repayment assistance program accordingly. We have decided that here at Harvard Law School, this is a crucial time to increase our already strong commitment to expanding students’ career choice through loan forgiveness. In addition, with the recently announced creation of the Holmes Public Service Fellowships, which will fund one year of public service work for approximately 12 graduates during 2010-11, we seek to enlarge public service opportunities for students even in this tight job market. The graduates receiving these fellowships of course will also be eligible to receive LIPP assistance during the term of the fellowship.
Summer Public Interest Funding (SPIF)
We will continue to offer Summer Public Interest Funding (SPIF) to all JD and SJD students in the summer of 2010, but, in order to preserve this vital opportunity, we are offering this funding for a maximum of 8 weeks instead of the 10 weeks of the recent past. SPIF will continue to provide a base of guaranteed funding to all students regardless of financial need. The weekly SPIF pay will be $550 for 2Ls and SJDs, $500 for 1Ls, and $375 for students who do not receive financial aid during the academic year. Students will be able to supplement SPIF funding with pay from the employing organization or other fellowships up to a cap of $6,500 for 1Ls and $8,000 for 2Ls and SJDs.
This adjustment in SPIF terms is necessitated by not only the other funding that we are offering such as the expansion of LIPP but also the dramatic increase in the number of students seeking summer funding. The number of students receiving SPIF rose from 375 in 2008 to 495 in 2009 and is expected to exceed 600 in 2010. Despite such increases, we remain one of few law schools that offer guaranteed summer funding to all law students. We need to make adjustments so that we can continue to do so.
Public Service Initiative
In 2008, we launched the Public Service Initiative (PSI) as a pilot program to provide tuition grants in exchange for student commitments to pursue postgraduate public service regardless of students’ financial need. We remain committed to this program for current students despite the economic downturn, but we are not likely to extend it to future incoming classes. Hence, currently enrolled students (and those admitted last spring who deferred) who elect to participate will remain eligible and will receive the promised PSI benefits in full, provided that they meet the obligations of the program. Meanwhile, I have appointed a PSI Task Force that is currently examining how best to use our resources to enhance and promote public service and government career opportunities for future incoming classes. Together, we will develop a successor initiative to offer to students admitted after the fall of 2009. Details of the successor program will be announced by March 2010 to assist the admitted students in their law school decision.
In the weeks and months ahead, we have one clear goal: We want to make sure every available dollar assists students in managing this challenging economic time so that financial difficulties do not unduly constrain career choices nor cause distractions from students’ work and lives. Our priority is to make sure that we offer all of these programs in the most equitable and most effective ways and our commitment is to offer you timely and clear information that you can use in making plans. Please do not hesitate to ask all your questions–we will do our very best to get you all the information you need and to provide you with as much financial security as possible in this time of economic turbulence.
Best wishes,
Martha
Earlier: Harvard Law School To Reduce Public Service Funding
dirty firsty
Meanwhile,
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202435931042&Law_schools_pick_up_loan_tab_for_graduates_pursuing_public_interest
Third!
boo.
I only come on ATL to read about real law schools like Thomas Cooley. Please relegate articles about TTTs like Harvard to Below the Law.
Cut my financial aid a bit if you want. But DON’T TOUCH MY FREE COFFEE!
What do 1Ls have to worry about? Currently enrolled students get the benefits of the program.
5
Judging from the quality of the writing in those emails, these were Cooley students.
“We remain committed to this program for current students despite the economic downturn, but we are not likely to extend it to future incoming classes.”
So what are 1Ls worried about?
Mystal, do your tusks get in the way when you masturbate?
I’ve never even heard of this law school. Could we please limit our discussions to law schools that are actually relevant like Hastings and McGeorge. It is also appropriate to focus upon law schools that have sterling research facilities like Cooley.
UC Davis 2L Secure
Why does MysTTTal hate kirkland so much?
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/11/a-10-million-day-for-kirkland.html
That’s pretty big news man. You dropped the ball.
Do Cooley students get a loan repayment program when they start working at McDonalds?
ULTRA COMBBOOOOOOOOOO
HLS is a place where total losers go to get a little snap in their job prospects. Other than that, they suck each other’s dicks just to get nutrition. HLS is a shit school for shitbirds.
10! Funniest comment on ATL for a while.
Calling PSI “loan forgiveness” is incorrect– as Minow made clear in the letter, the loan forgiveness program (LIPP) is being expanded, not cut. PSI is simply a different program that gives a year’s free tuition. It even applies to students who aren’t on any kind of financial aid, and is totally separate form the loan forgiveness program.
RST 90?
i suppose i should know the answer to this.. but does harvard suck ?
My condolences to Harvard students. But then again, not really.
Harvard is a diploma mill.
I feel a kinship with HLS, based primarily on the fact that we both have enormous endowments.
Sounds to me like the only people who are affected by the program cut are members of future classes that haven’t been admitted yet. Current students and admitted but deferring students (basically any who could have relied on the program while choosing HLS) still get the “full benefits.” So why are 1Ls hurt? So, No RS 90 issue
American University – WCL pays the student loans of graduates who go into public service and make under a certain amount, roughly $50,000. The program is called the Public Interest Loan Repayment Assistance Program (PILRAP).
Effectively it is like an inter-law school progressive tax where the high tuition is paid in full by those going into big law to subsidize their public interest colleagues, though a lot of the funding for the program does come from generous alumni contributions. Any institution that claims it believes in access to justice, economic justice, and instilling respect for the rule of law should put their money where their mouth, or dare I say rankings, are and support such a program. Shame on you Harvard!
WCL ‘08 PILRAP Secure
Just dip into your trust fund, kiddies.
NYU repays 100% of loans for anyone who goes into public interest.
WAHHHHH I AM A 1L AT HARVARD WHO IS UNABLE TO READ AN EMAIL SO I WILL BITCH TO ATL!!! WAHHHHH!!!!!
21-
That was the first funny thing you have said, ever. Cheers!
Hear hear 23. We should also consider the motto of the Thomas M. Cooley School of Law, which is that the spirit of the law is in the human heart. Clearly Harvard has a lot to learn from its peer institutions.
Harvard aspires to be a peer institution with Thomas M. Cooley.
The first legitimate restatement 90 case on this blog in a very long time.
And Harvard law school, which just had its ABA accreditation pulled by the ABA. Tough week for Harvard Law School
Let’s be clear. Almost anyone, even heavily indebted lawschool grads, can afford to work in public interest. There are plenty of loan repayment options out there. Most government agencies have their own. Students with federal loans (the majority of us) can consolidate and reduce monthly payments to a considerable extent. No one is going to starve or go homeless. What heavily indebted law students can’t do is work public interest and continue with the lifestyle they’re likely used to.
Let me get this straight. Harvard has an endowment that would allow them to waive tuition for all students, in all programs for the next 4 years and still have money to burn, yet they pull this shit? Harvard claims to have the brightest students in the world, but they are unable to read and comprehend an email in the same way that all of the non harvard readers of ATL are?
The three most overrated things in life
1. A home cooked meal
2. Gratuitous sex
3. Harvard law school
Harvard can only dream of being in the same league as Thomas M. Cooley. For proof, check this out:
http://www.cooley.edu/alumni/success/index.html
31, please point me in the direction of any credible literature regarding the ability of current students to consolidate their federal loans. I was under the impression that my Stafford loans are a fixed rate, with no chance of consolidating.
*consolidation
There is no story here other than HLS doing away with a stupid program. First of all, as pointed out by other posters, HLS is honoring the program for all current students, including deferring students. More importantly, they already have a loan repayment program for students in public interest work. If you have a qualifying job for 10 years, they will pay for all three years of your education, including room and board. This program waiving tuition for the 3rd year was a stupid and unnecessary program. If you want to do public interest law, HLS will still repay your loans. Nothing to see here.
34, the programs I’m referring to do not lower interest rates. They lower monthly payments for those working in public interest. Here is an article: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/releases/documents/Forgiveness_000.pdf
HarvTTTard
I think most 1Ls are bummed about the decreased SPIF funding. As recently as last year, HLS provided $5,500 of funding for any student working in public interest over the summer.
HLS has now capped that amount to $4,000. It’s extremely difficult to live ANYWHERE on $4,000, which amount is supposed to cover rent, utilities, food, travel, entertainment, credit card payments, etc. FOR THE ENTIRE SUMMER! And it’s not like 1Ls can run out and find $3,100/wk firm jobs anymore either.
What a dump!
- Western New England School of Law Secure
30 is wrong. HLs is definitely provisionally accredited by the ABA. We don’t need to take the baby bar.
-HLS 1L INSECURE!
33,
WOW. That is unbelievably pathetic. Doesn’t Cooley have like 37,000 graduates every year? And that’s the best they can come up with.
I mean, I guess I should have figured, but man…that has got to be so depressing for Cooley law grads.
What do the rest of them do…kill themselves two years out of law school?
30 is wrong. HLs is definitely provisionally accredited by the ABA. We don’t need to take the baby bar.
-HLS 1L INSECURE!
Boo fucking hoo. My alma mater’s LRAP is objectively worthless and didn’t even exist until about two years ago. The only people who get assistance are those who go work for nonprofits for five years. And even then, it’s only slight assistance.
And I’ve heard tuition is jumping to $40K next year. TTT20 my ass. But I still love ‘em. *sniff* (Despite my No-Job 4L status.)
33 –
Check out Lisa Esser under the “Externship Becomes Job Offer” link. I’d hit it. Hell, I’d marry her. She’s a Cooley success story for Christ’s sake!
Sorry 45, looks like she’s already married, and even has a dog too:
http://www.sommerspc.com/index.php/lisa-esser
@42
When i did my clerkship for the State’s Attorney’s Office in Baltimore, we indicted a husband/wife couple involved in a series of crimes. The wife came in for questioning and was very cocky since she had gone to law school – Thomas Cooley to be exact! We couldnt trick her with our fancy lawyer tricks, she knew them all!
Well she and her husband were convicted and are currently doing time in Maryland. What presitgious Alumni!
46 –
That’s a damn shame, although lessoned somewhat by the fact that she practices in the area of “birth trauma.” That’s a big turn off in my book. Does Latham handle birth trauma litigation?
– 45
The bigger story here is their commitment to extend LIPP assistance to students going into deferral fellowships or temporary public interest jobs. The financial aid office has been very ambiguous about that recently, and I suspect there are more students who are deferred than there are students who would have qualified for the redundant public interest program which requires a multi-year commitment. LIPP always seemed like a better deal anyway.
Boo-frickin-hoo for HLS students. Yes, boo-frickin-hoo. What a tragic existence. What determination and grit it must take to survive as a graduate of Harvard Law. How terribly sad to be “forced” to take a six-figure job. Shut up homeless man. Shut up working mom waiting tables. There are people out there with REAL problems. I’m really starting to hate this site.
This would never hapen at Widener
I think Dean Minow is doing a good job. She’s dealing with a rough situation and working as hard as she can to keep everybody level headed (and this is coming from an unemployed 3L at HLS).
All rough times pass. The grace that HLS’s formal offices display during the donnybrook is what sets the school apart, in my opinion. The PSI was a great idea, but it’s unwise to expand our spending after the hedge fund endowment debacle (which was NOT an HLS decision). As with most things coming out of the Dean’s office since I started here, this was a well designed compromise.
Besides, the real value of our degrees will come decades down the line. Law students are taking out a ton of debt to afford this very valuable experience, and as we’ve learned to be effective advocates, we’re bound to push back against any public move to take away paths of least resistance.
But this post about the push back buries the lede. Even if most HLS students have a very rough next few years trying to survive in this economic climate, we’re all going to find some way to keep eating and sheltering ourselves.
Moreover, it’s probably for the best that we have to face the same economic peril the rest of the country does, if only so we aren’t insulated from the populations we’re all working so hard to one day lead (this is ESPECIALLY true for HLS students going into the public sector).
Life will not be fun for a little while. But many of us will be stronger for facing this tumult, and it might be good that everybody’s urging us to rethink our priorities.
Here’s to the long term,
CK
CK – You are a d-bag of the worst sort. Donnybrook? Seriously? Hopefully the only population you’ll be leading is a book club or we’re all in serious trouble.
23 –
Wait, wait. You’ve misread the situation. HLS — like any top school — has an incredibly generous loan repayment program just like what you’ve described. Anyone who makes under a certain amount gets all their loans paid back. I had over 150K leaving HLS, and worked for state government (from 40K to 85K annual salary), and in 10 years it had paid back almost all of my loans. I paid back virtually nothing.
HLS has the most generous loan repayment plan in the country, far more generous than American’s. I’m not saying you have a bad school — my first boss went to American — but your loan repayment plan is worse.
PSI was a SEPARATE initiative, announced by Dean Kagan, where people get an EXTRA, UP-FRONT tuition reimbursement for pledging to working in public interest law for 5 years. That is all that is going away.
Can’t Harvard just hit up its wealthy alumni for more dough? Shit, the Goldman Sachs guys got their bonuses, they could pitch in, right?
public interest is for losers
25: NYU repays 100% of loans for anyone who goes into public interest.
Clearly, you are still a student and not an alum who has tried to use LRAP.
I’m an HLS student, and I can’t say I’ve ever understood the PSI to be that significant. It seems to amount to an approximately $9,000 / yr, five year stipend. I can’t imagine it weighs that heavily in career planning, especially in light of LIPP. I’m not saying it doesn’t help folks doing public interest work to meet their expenses. But it seems neither to be that great a recruiting tool nor a particularly great inducement to pursue a career in public service.
The PSI was a waste. Run the numbers–in almost all cases, students would have been better off taking the traditional LRAP.
Harvard continues to have one of the most generous LRAP programs in the country, led by only Yale and Stanford.
The Harvard Law Record just came out with an article that corrects a lot of the prevailing media sentiment circulating about the changes in financial aid at HLS. The administration is pretty firm in asserting that the number of people who took PSI was around what they expected, for example:
http://www.hlrecord.org/news/financial-aid-increase-makes-up-for-harvard-s-public-service-initiative-cut-1.951142