Small Law Firms

An Interview With Leadership Speaker And Podcaster Nicole Abboud-Shayan

Learn about Nicole’s journey and how her law degree and legal career got her where she is now.

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Nicole Abboud-Shayan (Image via LinkedIn)

After an unplanned two-month hiatus from this column, I am excited to be back with a ton of fresh new content for you (because let’s be honest, there is only so much writing about law school and the bar exam one gal can do). 

I’m particularly pumped about this new “An Interview With” series that will publish at least once a month. In this series, I will connect with people from all parts of the legal profession and at all stages of their legal career.  We will learn more about who really makes up the legal community and what people are actually doing with their legal degrees. 

Now, let’s get this series kicked off with Leadership Speaker and Podcaster, Nicole Abboud-Shayan. Nicole, a 2011 Southwestern Law School grad, is an inclusive leadership speaker and host of The Gen Y Lawyer Podcast. Nicole has spoken at places such as the Clio Cloud Conference and Lawyernomics by Avvo. 

In the following interview, you will learn about Nicole’s journey to becoming a Leadership Speaker and Podcaster and how her law degree and legal career got her there.

Q: Why did you go to law school? 

A: I wanted to help people and I believed that law school would put me in the best position to do that. I knew that understanding the law would provide the power and authority to speak up for others. For whatever reason, I’ve always had an innate ability to determine what’s fair, and I believed that law school would help me hone that character trait to better serve others. 

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The more I reflect on why I decided to go to law school, the more I realize the following truth (and listen up because not many people share this): I wanted to become a lawyer all of my life, but I never stopped to honestly evaluate if that’s what I truly wanted. I didn’t know any lawyers when I was growing up so I never actually spoke to a real one to find out what their lives and work entailed. Although I’m not sure my 20-year-old self would have considered anything other than attending law school, sometimes I wonder how different my life would be had I just taken a few years off after college to explore other interests and gain real-world experience. Taking time off to find yourself isn’t exactly encouraged when you’re in college. But alas, everything happens the way it’s supposed to. Aside from my massive student loan debt, I don’t regret attending law school whatsoever. I’m smarter, stronger, and more capable because of what I learned and the skills I gained. 

Q: Describe your legal from graduation to what you are currently doing today

A: I don’t want to bore everyone with the minutiae of how I went from a totally unhappy lawyer to quitting the law, growing a business, and transitioning to where I am today. So I’ll share the CliffsNotes version (please tell me you remember CliffsNotes and my Millennial references aren’t completely lost on today’s generation?).

It took a whole three months for me to realize that being a lawyer is not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I can’t exactly explain what it was but I had a feeling in my stomach that there was something more, something else out there for me to do. Five years and several different practice areas later, I finally made the leap out of the practice of law and into entrepreneurship. I launched my business, Abboud Media, and focused my efforts on helping lawyers and law firms amplify their thought leadership and market their practices using videos and podcasts. We became a full-production agency. Now, two years later, my company continues to evolve as I grow into my role as a public speaker and podcaster. 

Q: Describe what your typical workday looks like

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A: I don’t really have typical workdays, but I do tend to have typical work weeks. I like to establish three major goals for each week. So I spend Sundays thinking about the upcoming week and jotting down my “To-Do” List. Some weeks are busier than others, but for the most part, I typically have several podcast interviews to conduct. For that, I schedule time to research my guests and prepare for each interview. I allot time for editing and preparing the show for its Monday publication. 

When I wake up every day, I try my hardest to start the day with 10 minutes of meditation but that doesn’t always work out (it’s a work in progress). 

I usually have one or two major conferences that I speak at every couple of months so I schedule time to prepare for my presentations and keynote addresses. When I’m not prepping, I’m usually working on outreach and development and trying to secure future speaking engagements.  I try to attend one or two networking events each week, whether it’s bar association mixers or one-on-one lunch meetings with new or old connections.

I also serve on several boards so I attend any meetings scheduled that week. I listen to personal development podcasts while I drive and check in with my mastermind group each week. When I’ve completed my major projects for the week, I treat myself to some good ‘ol fashioned Netflix binging. And of course I try to exercise about three-four times per week, and I spend all other times with my husband.

Q: What challenges did you face in your decision to go a non-traditional path with your law degree (i.e., mental/emotional/ financial/ outside pressure from family friends/ know-how, etc.)?

A: There were many. The first was my own personal struggle with my professional identity. I lived with the dream of wanting to become a lawyer all of my life and then held on to that identity when I finally became a practicing attorney for five years. So it was difficult to learn how to shed that part of my identity when I decided to part ways with the practice of law. There was certainly a huge element of pride and ego wrapped up in being a lawyer. That was difficult to work through. Thankfully, that tight grip that I had on my lawyer-identity loosened over the years and I learned that being a lawyer will always be a part of me even if I’m not practicing. I had to release that part of me that was not working in order to find my true, whole self. 

Another less unexpected challenge was my financial journey following shutting down my law practice. Although there are many jobs lawyers can obtain that provide whatever desired salary they wish to make, I chose to jump into entrepreneurship. If there’s one thing you should know about entrepreneurship, it’s that it will rarely provide the type of financial security you need or desire. At least not at first. So when I first launched my business, my challenge was figuring out how to make money and allocate whatever money I did make appropriately until my business was up and running. 

Q: Do you think you’ll ever go back to practicing law? 

A: If I’ve learned anything over the years, it’s to never say “never.” It’s impossible to predict the future, so even though I don’t foresee myself ever going back to practicing law, it’s always uncertain what the future holds for me. I’m self-aware enough to know that practicing law wasn’t the right path for me and didn’t suit my strengths. So barring any crazy change in personality in the future, I highly doubt I’ll return to the practice of law.

Q: What advice do you have for someone who is interested in doing something non-traditional with their law career (whether a law student or someone looking to make a career change)?

A: I think the first step is to stop thinking that not practicing law is “non-traditional” since people who obtain their JDs are able to use their degrees in various unique and interesting ways outside the legal profession. This is  becoming the new “traditional.” Not committing to practicing law for your entire career is becoming more common and acceptable as more lawyers are finding non-legal positions that allow them to still use their legal knowledge and skills. 

Second, my advice would be: just go for it. If you have an interest in something, you owe it to your future self to explore that interest. That doesn’t mean completely dropping out of law school or quitting the law just yet, but it does warrant some research. I’m all about exploring your curiosities. Take some time either on the weekends, at the end of your workday, or when you have some free time to research your interests. Reach out to people who are already occupying the space you wish to be in and chat with them. Ask them how they like it and why. Find out why you’re attracted to another career. There are too many free resources available for you to not arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can before making a life-changing decision. 

You can learn more about Nicole here.

Know someone who would be great to profile in this series? Send an email to [email protected] with “An Interview With” in the subject line. 

Kerriann Stout is a millennial law school professor and founder of Vinco (a bar exam coaching company) who is generationally trapped between her students and colleagues. Kerriann has helped hundreds of students survive law school and the bar exam with less stress and more confidence. She lives, works, and writes in the northeast. You can reach her by email at [email protected].

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