McDermott Will & Emery was supposed to have its incoming class start in January. But now that January is almost upon us, MWE is the latest firm to change its mind.
The news first broke on Facebook late last week, via status updates of unhappy incoming associates:
♫ “re-deferment in december. happy holidays.”
Yeah, there is a lot of that going around. It’s like the Biglaw version of the Lexus “December to Remember” ad campaign.
McDermott will be offering the (now standard) deferral extension stipend of $5,000/month. Given that the firm has been cost cutting for a while, incoming associates should probably be grateful for the stipend they will receive.
Additional details, plus a statement from the firm, after the jump.
A spokesperson for McDermott Will & Emery furnished Above the Law with the following statement:
At this time, we have deferred the start date for a number of our incoming associates based on need for associate services in select practice groups. Deferred associates will be paid $5,000 per month, receive medical and dental insurance coverage, as well as other benefits.
The firm did not say how long these associates are being deferred, so it appears that we have a classic flipping the bird situation.
Of course, when Alston & Bird re-deferred its incoming class, we were way back in September. MWE is pulling the rug out from people in early December. I hope nobody had apartments lined up for January.
With that in mind, people should really contact their firms before they sign a lease or fork over a security deposit. Given the fact that some firms seem willing to defer associates so late in the game, it is better for incoming people to be safe than sorrily locked into a rent situation they cannot afford.
Good luck.
Earlier: Reversed Perk Watch: McDermott Will & Emery Scales Back on Benefits
Deferral Extension Season: Alston & Bird Make Indefinite Deferral
Mayer Brown Re-Deferment: A December Surprise
This firm is the definition of suck.
Come on, ATL – put together a chart or list of all the re-deferrals, with original deferred start dates, extensions, and stipend amounts.
1 – Agreed. Scorn shall flow to all firms who defer associates the month prior to their start date.
I heap scorn upon you, MWE.
/me throws scorn.
Come on, ATL – put together a chart or list of all the re-deferrals, with original deferred start dates, extensions, and stipend amounts.
This is beyond cruel. Why couldn’t the firm determine their “need for associate services” back in September?
Come on, ATL – put together a chart or list of all the re-deferrals, with original deferred start dates, extensions, and stipend amounts.
Elie, get some perspective…it is ridiculous to refer to $5,000 per month for not working as “the little stipend” when that’s more than most Americans receive for actually working
A very merry Christmas, indeed. F*ck these firms–it’s beyond cruel to pull this stunt so late in the game.
well Elie, kudos for removing the word “little” so quickly
– 7
since when does 3 firms equate to “a lot” of them?
Indefinite deferral? Any word on this?
11–read the article, they wouldn’t say how long.
1. Did incoming associates at MWE ever get a specific start date for January?
2. How many incoming associates were impacted by this absolutely brutal decision?
3. This firm should be BANNED from law school recruitment.
Mission Accomplished!
What’s worse? To be re-deferred at this shitbag firm, or have your offer revoked at sister shitbag like Arent Fox?
And THEN what’s worse after that? To find out that both shitbag firms are having new summer classes, or to actually be a part of a summer class at one of those shitbag firms?
YIKES!
12, I saw the article, but I am surprised that in the firm’s discussions with the incoming associates nothing was thrown around in terms of starting date–i.e., “We are hoping to start everyone in April, but we just need to see where the market is . . . .”
The Dow is down.
What did you expect?
ELIE – ARE YOU GOING TO APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR PEARL HARBOR DAY INSULT?
Which practice groups? All?
there is NO more money. anywhere.
As a Mormon, I feel sorry for these poor souls. However, this is a great time to find themselves and reevaluate their life decisions. It is times like these that I find the Scriptures most comforting.
I remember helping a distressed gay man on my Mission. He was upset over another failed relationship. He opened his heart to the Scriptures and was Baptized a mere four weeks later. I’m proud to say he is now married and expecting a child!
This is just poor management.
Leaving aside all the arguments that law students will boycott the firm, this decreases morale among existing employees, and it sends the wrong message to clients, I just don’t understand how this could benefit the firm financially. It appears they are shuffling the chairs on the deck of a sinking ship.
I just hope these LOSER firms have their feet held to the firm when (if??) things get better.
Then i hope their feet burn off and they have only melty-bubbly stumps for legs. HA!
16–this firm just fucked those people in the ass, and you think the firm cares about making them feel better by saying “we hope to see you in april”? what planet do you live on?
I just hope these LOSER firms have their feet held to the fire when (if??) things get better.
Then i hope their feet burn off and they have only melty-bubbly stumps for legs. HA!
I was told last May that I would be deferred until October of 2010 . . . and because my firm planned ahead they were able to adjust their 2010 incoming class accordingly.
I would be worried to be an incoming associate at one of these firms that continue to mismanage this situation.
I inherited this mess!
I’m Barack Obama?
Elie Mystal I wish you worked for MWE. That is how much I hate you.
Son of Pearl Harbor survivor
How are these places not incredibly busy? We are swamped (thank God). What a fucking shithole.
29 – name firm or it didn’t happen.
It is beyond belief that even the worst of firm management did not know the staffing situation weeks ago. While the stipend may be helpful, this is too late in the game to be forgiveable.
31 – somehow I’m not sure the partners are worried about your forgiveness.
Let me get this straight, they get paid $5,000 per month and dont have to do any work? Fuck every last one of you in the ass for bitching about something like this, and fuck ATL and Elie for presenting it in such a manner. They’re making well above the median HOUSEHOLD income in this country for NOT GOING TO WORK. HELLO- they wont the fucking lottery.
You realize you can live like an emperor on a tropical island in thailand for well under 1500/mo right…
McDeferral Will & Emery
MWE re-deferred associate here. Got the call last week from a hiring partner. Once I realized what was happening, I started to give a lot of attitude. I asked them why they couldn’t have decided this earlier. He had no response!
I signed a NYC lease two weeks ago! I am now in the hole $4k (deposit), as well as the flight I booked. MWE just ruined my life. I will now make it my mission to make sure this TTT firm never recruits good talent ever again.
30: S&C, oh it did happen
I’d wish these deferred associates good luck but they wouldn’t know what to do with it if they got it.
And to answer your question, pal: why am I here? I came here because Will and Emery asked me to, they asked me for a favor. I said, the real favor, follow my advice and fire their fucking asses because a loser is a loser.
33,
60k a year in a major market is like living with the poors. You’re a fucking retard.
Pre-emptive severance pay!!
The firms that managed their business well during the downturn are currently very busy. The firms that did not are currently re-deferring.
I guess we know which one MWE is.
The ship be sinking!
30,
Debevoise and its fucking insane.
So glad I didn’t accept an offer from them! This shows how highly they value young associates. Understandably times are tough, but you wait this long to tell deferred associates that they’ll be deferred for longer?!?!? Dodged a bullet by not going there….
So glad I didn’t accept an offer from them! This shows how highly they value young associates. Understandably times are tough, but you wait this long to tell deferred associates that they’ll be deferred for longer?!?!? Dodged a bullet by not going there….
So glad I didn’t accept an offer from them! This shows how highly they value young associates. Understandably times are tough, but you wait this long to tell deferred associates that they’ll be deferred for longer?!?!? Dodged a bullet by not going there….
34 for the win..nice
My balls are massive.
33=47
With apologies to 34, McDeferral Will (not be) Ephemery?
38: 60k in a major market is now living with the poors? You self-entitled yuppie, get a hold of yourself. Unless you live beyond your means, 60 k plus full health benes is enough to live in NYC and have a great time. I know mad peeps who get buy on 50k.
I would more concerned that they will tell you to go fuck yourself and find other employment before tbd start date.
Where are we at with layoffs? It is really quiet compared to this time last year. Are stealth layoffs still happening at the rate they were last year?
I was getting re-deferred before it was cool.
Winston insecure
Hey Lat, I bet you want to see 47’s balls.
Welcome to McUnemployment bitches. Thanks Obama!
congratulations 38 on completely missing 33’s point
to repeat: they are getting paid 60k per year for NOT working
– not 33
35,
That does suck. However, given these times you should have had the wisdom to call recruiting before you signed a lease and booked your flight to confirm your start date and let them know you were moving forward.
They would have either told you (a) to hold on or (b) come on over and would now be on the hook for an argument that they should pay those expenses.
This whole entitlement/you’re lucky for a stipend line of reasoning seriously needs to end. The plight of class of 2009 incoming associates is not a matter of entitlement or making less money than originally anticipated. Rather, the issue is that we took an offer in 2008 and didn’t seek out other avenues because of that offer. By the time firms told us we were effed it was too late to seek cover. Criticize whinny deferreds as much as you want, but at least get the issue right.
38- 60k in a major market is living with the poors if you also spend 12 hours a day delivering pizzas on a bike in 10 degree Manhattan weather. 60k in a mm doing whatever you please all day would probably anger any poor enough to stab you to death if he knew.
People need to stop complaining about the $5k + insurance, but I do agree that people have a legitimate complaing about notifying incoming associates in December–that should have been avoided!
33/50
Your incoherent analogy of “an emporor living in Thailand on 1500/month” is retarded. 1. These offers aren’t in Thailand. 2. No experience is being gained by not working (you’re obviously an idiot who doesn’t realize many of these people would rather be working than sitting on their ass). 3. The mentality is not, “cool, I make 5k a month for sitting on my ass!” The menatlity at this point is fear, “will I ever start? can I trust this firm? Will I have a job in the future?” 4. This is about a 100k pay cut (as of now). Calling me a “self-entitled yuppie” is ridiculous and illogical. BUT YOU ARE A FUCKING RETARD.
Echo 62
– 58
What about the class of 2010 deferrals that aren’t getting a stipend? What should they do?
62, STFU, no one gives a crap about your plight
#35 you just helped them identify you, you dumb ass! They only deferred 15 people. And not many in NY. They should fire you for beging so stupid.
#35 you just helped them identify you, you dumb ass! They only deferred 15 people. And not many in NY. They should fire you for being so stupid.
Deferred associates do need to stop whining–you still have some hope of a future job. Nothing significant has been taken from you, the firm is paying you to wait until things pick up. You should be thanking them, it would have been easier and cheaper for them to just let you go.
Now if after your deferral you never get a job, you can proceed to whine because of lost opportunities . . .
#35 you just helped them identify you, you dumb ass! They only deferred 15 people. And not many in NY. They should fire you for being so stupid.
59, because the pizza guy has so much debt to deal with and is smart enough to work in biglaw. We live in a meritocracy, get over your retarded liberal agenda.
At least they didn’t rescind offers entirely like Wildman Harrold did.
Wildman Harrold is a sinking ship.
67 -
Do I give a fuck? My biglaw career is over before it even started. If they identify me I will tell them to fuck off myself.
–35
Pizza guy to 190!
You are all idiots.
- SMU secure
Its hard to feel pity for a 5k def. (plus insurance coverage???). There wasn’t a provision to not seek other employment was there? It would be wise to treat this money as gravy on top of doing something productive, as opposed to living in mom’s garage playing xbox all day (though that has appeal).
I am firmly of the opinion that this blog is most often frequented by: (1) TTT grads with absolutely no prospect of ever finding meaningful legal employment; (2) young associates; (3) law firm staff. Why else would there be so much venom for a group of people who simply want to take their place in their respective legal communities? The TTT grad resents prospective incoming biglaw associates. Young associates are mad because they don’t want to share. And staff gets burned up when they see a person half their age making three times as much money. Grow up.
70, you sound like the one with the “liberal agenda” (getting paid for not working)…some people become roadkill in a free market economy, and deferred associates are among them
I AM PERSONALLY FORWARDING THIS POST TO ALL T-14 SCHOOLS. I WILL MAKE IT MY LIFE-LONG MISSION TO ENSURE THAT MWE NEVER RECRUITS A SINGLE STUDENT FROM A TOP SCHOOL.
MWE — YOUR DAYS ARE FUCKING NUMBERED. I HOPE YOU ALL GO BROKE.
There are still biglaw partners, seniors and mid levels here. Though we’re far outnumbered by the autoadmit kids who are also the most vocal.
yale is #1
77,
You suck at reading. I’m pressing for people to work dipshit.
I second 76.
-70
LQTM at 78
67 – actually, only 11 people were deferred.
To All Deferred Associates:
Gigs are canceled all the time. It’s no big deal. Find another gig in your city, or move on to the next city.
Nigel
What happened to the glimmer of hope for PHJW kids that I read back on the Mayer Brown thread?
78 – Don’t get me wrong, I hate MWE too. Spent some of the worst years of my life grinding away there hopelessly. I’m glad to be free now, but c’mon. You’re going to make it your “LIFE-LONG MISSION” to fuck with their recruiting? Just do like the rest of us and occasionally post at ATL about how shitty the firm is. Especially around recruiting season.
Also, if you wind up in-house, like I did, steer work away from them. It’s funny and gratifying.
Did MWE actually tell deferred associates they were deferred, or did they let them read it on ATL before any communication was made to them?
They used ATL to announce the reduction in summer associate salary and the layoffs during the summer.
Terrible, terrible firm.
64 – you are never starting
70/81 – you suck at writing dipshit…oh, and go fuck yourself too
– 70
Good luck to 78 and all the other people threatening to make it their “mission” to ensure that MWE never recruits from top schools. You’re going to need it.
Are you that arrogant to think that you, and you alone, can’t prevent a firm from recruiting at top schools? If you are, then you’re an idiot.
I feel bad for any laid off/deferred associates. I sincerely do, as I was laid off at one point. However, for those of you who think like 78, you really need to get over yourself. You’re just not that important or powerful. Welcome to the world. None of are.
Nixon Peabody still hasn’t said anything about January 2010 –are they next to redefer?
Does anyone know how the deferral stipends are treated for tax purposes? Are they considered income or like a bonus? That is significant because $60k quickly turns into $35k if it’s a bonus.
@92 – CHECK YOU COAT HANGERS
These re-deferrals are further evidence of Commissar Obama’s failure to ameliorate our anemic economy. Obama’s stimulus plan has provided some temporary shovel jobs to a few manual laborers but that has been the extent of his job saving plan. The irony is that most of the associates that are being re-deferred voted for Commissar Obama. Thus, they are getting their “hope and change.” Regardless, $5,000.00 to sit and do dick is nothing to be ungrateful about.
90 – Except Obama, who can single-handedly save our economy with willpower and superior-teleprompter-reading skills!
70/81 – you suck at writing dipshit…oh, and go fuck yourself too
– 77
90 – it’s not a surprise you got fired with writing skills like that. Please don’t tell me what I can and can’t do. Just worry about your own shit.
If PHJW incoming associates are redeferred, they probably shouldn’t send scathing emails to the entire firm. And by redeferred, I mean fired.
93 – you’re an idiot. A bonus is regular taxable income.
You’re used to seeing a large chunk of it disappear not because it’s treated differently by the IRS, but because your employer tends to withhold your taxes from it at the highest marginal rate to which they think you’ll be subject.
Hey, PE! Fuck you…or did the Bush (Mis)Administration never happen? Oh, I know, it’s like Dana Perino told us; there were no terrorist attacks on this country during the Cheney Years…oh, yeah, except for a little dustup in September ‘01. Obama was not the cause of the recession, it was your fucktard friends in the Congress and the banking industry that sold us down the river. Keep reaching, you’ll find it…
If you summered at a firm and got an offer, then got deferred, then revoked, do you qualify as “alumni”? Because it’s nice to feel like you’re part of the team.
Same boat as 53
-Making $1400/month less than this ‘re-deferral standard’
Same boat as 53
-Making $1400/month less than this ‘re-deferral standard’
Those who are actually starting in January will be paid $145,000. Time to update that NALP form, McDeferral Will & Emery.
Is there a claim under Section 90 of the Restatement of Contracts here?
I just can’t believe how much time and effort is spent (including me) reading and responding to this crap. Geez…..
I just can’t believe how much time and effort is spent (including me) reading and responding to this crap. Geez…..
106 raises a good point. Ar e any incomings actually making 160?
Was it really only 15?
62 – You will never start. You have been fired. Now STFU and look for a job.
V10 SECURE
How should I document the fact that I got an offer but I got deferred and then redeferred on my resume in case someone at Whataburger wants to hire me?
Any one know how many were deferred and what practice groups they belonged to?
Does anyone know if MWE made their offers yet to last summer’s associates?
ATL to PHJW!
115 – they did, eventually.
ATTENTION MWE SUMMERS (2009 & 2010): LOL @ thinking you’ll ever start.
Many lawyers have trouble making conversation, this leads to awkward silences, lost opportunities, and lost confidence. There are three main elements to great conversation that all revolve around taking an interest in other people. They are 1) Listening-listen to what the other person is saying and look for seeds (seeds-=things they may want to elaborate on) and ask questions about those seeds. 2)Asking/Answering Questions- If they ask a question, give an elaborate answer (more than one word) so they can ask you more questions OR if you are shy repeat the question back to them OR ask a question about one of the seeds they mentioned earlier. 3) Empathize – match experiences with a person, this really helps facilitate conversation.. If they tell you about a situation you respond with a story about a similar situation. If you practice the aforementioned skills every day with every conversation you have you will be able to converse easily with anyone, anywhere.
117 – Any news w/r/t offer rate? I don’t recall ever seeing it discussed here.
120 – who cares? These offers are meaningless!
120 – Afraid I dunno. I left a while back, but one of the summers I kept in touch with eventually got his offer, after being on tenterhooks for a few months (late September, I think the offer came in).
Don’t want to get re-deferred??? Go work in Texas.
better deferred than to start, work a few months and get laid off. ‘08 grads really got f’ed by this firm.
anyone else notice how this firm keep showing up on ATL every other month?
Only in this online community of weirdos is this a bad thing. $5k/month to *not* work? Even with big student loans, this is nice.
Are you complainers joking? These kids are getting $60,000/year plus generous benefits to do nothing? Christ, I’d be having the time of my life backpacking around Europe and would trade places with one of these guys in an instant if I had the opportunity.
The ship be sinking…
Anyone claiming that re-deferred associates are ungrateful and lucky to be getting 5k/month is an idiot. It has nothing to do with the money. I was re-deferred, and if I had the choice I would happily start working in January, even if it meant a salary of 5k/month. We’ve been sitting on our asses doing nothing since August, and some of us already backpacked through Europe. I think I speak for more than myself when I say that we really just want to have a job.
That’s wild they didn’t give a new date. Maybe the next step is the firm shuts down.
127 and people arguing along the same vein:
Don’t you get it. These deferred associated don’t care about the money. They are gaining NO SUBSTANTIVE EXPERIENCE. Ass-uming that they never start at the firm in any case (when does a re-deferred associated become a fired associate?) how are they ever going to find another job in the biglaw community, which is what they surely deserve. It’s like that episode of Seinfeld where George has an attractive girlfriend, which entitles him to enter the world of hot girls. These associates are like George, and have been allowed past the plush rope into the VIP rooms where they get free table service and attractive women (or men) cater to their every whim. Now, being deferred, they’re locked out, and will be lucky to see some action at the local Foreign Legion chapter. Sucks, don’t it?!
I am a law clerk and I make about this to put up with the insanity of my judge, day in and day out. I’d rather get the money and be volunteering any day of the week.
98 – reading comprehension fail, see 97…LOSER
I wonder if MWE attorneys are so deluded that they actually get offended by the comments on here.
Would anyone use any MWE gear in public? I would be afraid to even show the MWE coffee mug to a guest.
MWE is a shitty firm that’s been trying for years to be something it’s not. Its true colors are finally showing. It continues to treat all its people horribly. Now most people will say, oh well what do you expect, it’s a big firm, etc. and they all treat their associates badly. Well the difference with MWE is they try and sell themselves as if they are a big firm with a heart. Well they think they are one of the big players and they aren’t. And every time they get negative press they have one of their all firm meetings and say how everything is great, and they have no debt, etc. Well guess what people – they are lying! How can they be doing so well when they continually have lay offs, defferals, screw people out of bonuses, and even take money from their own partners just to stay afloat. Wake up and smell the coffee MWE associates (well not the starbucks coffee anymore since they took that away). You work in a shit firm, but in all honesty I feel bad for you cause the job market is so bad you just have to ride it out.
ive MWE a break- they have had to pay out mucho $$ in response to sanction orders this year. There just isn’t any money left.
137 – How did the appeal on that sanction against Terry and Vera go? The hearing was in November, right? Anyone hear anything?
You people who say you’d trade places with us deferred associates — fantastic. Ring any one of us up, and we’ll switch places. Let your firm know you’ll switch, and offer to take the deferral so they can bring one more of us on. You can sit on your ass (or go to some island, or backpack across Europe… whatever the hell you want to do) and collect $5k and insurance for 10 months, and then have no job at the end of it. I will take your job and I will work.
Wait, what’s that? You say you don’t *really* want to switch places? You want to keep your job? You don’t actually want to be in limbo for several months, with no job in sight, an no experience to speak of?
I thought so.
For the record, if I wanted to backpack across fucking Europe or go live on an island somewhere, I’d have done that. I went to law school instead, because I wanted to work as a lawyer. So STFU already about how dare we be unhappy about being deferred. I want to work. And unless that is actually you on the phone offering to switch places with me, so do you.
A while ago, I gave MWE swag (clothing, water bottles, bags, etc. ) to a charity for street people. Now, when I see a someone loitering on the street with such MWE stuff, I’ll ponder whether they are homeless or a deferred MWE associate.
140 FTW
140 – or both?
139 – completely agree with you. don’t want to hear another associate bitch about the perceived entitlement.
139 – completely agree with you. don’t want to hear another associate bitch about the perceived entitlement.
What kind of operation is MWE running exactly? This might be the most classless move in biglaw history, excepting maybe the Latham Massacre.
What kind of half-assed organization determines their staffing needs one month out? My little sisters lemonade stand is run more efficiently than this piece of shit.
Tell me, MWE partners, would you tell your mothers what you did to these kids? The same people you wined and dined just over a year ago?
Believe me or not, but I have family members who are in-house for major corporations. I will forward them this article and let them judge for themselves, but I certainly wouldn’t trust my legal issues with a firm that pulls this kind of crap.
[P.S., I have not been re-deferred and feel confident I will start in January. I plan on passing on my account to a friend who is deferred until "Fall 2010".]
What groups were impacted? Does anyone have more specific numbers?
35 is not a real MWE re-deferred associate in NYC. I know all three, and not a single one would be so stupid. 35 is a bitter SA reject or worse.
148, practice groups affected varied by office and, apparently, number of incoming associates
A+B may have given out the indefinite deferrals early, but did they compensate the afflicted? I heard no stipend money for their permanent limbo status.
Is “deferred for life” Al Bundy?
OK, I am one of the deferreds here, and I heard the number was around 20 (making it about 1/3 of the incoming class) but it may be less and the numbers were inflated a little to make me feel better.
Maybe it is true that this is only a prelude to being let go completely – but that is not the feeling I get from the move. They have no real reason to keep stringing us out and paying out (yes – the period is indefinite) instead of just terminating us outright at this time.
I already took out a lease and moved, and McDermott already agreed to pay moving expenses when we got our original offer – so we can take that complaint out of the pot here. Is my lease painful considering the new deferral? Yes. But because of the economy I took out a lease on a much smaller place than would have really suited me so it doesn’t hurt as much as it would have for someone who truly believed the sun was rising on a golden tomorrow in January.
I’ve run the numbers – $5000 a month, post taxes, will just barely cover bills and debt service for me. It will go a little way toward food for my family. (I am not in the economically fortunate situation of being young and single and I have around $200k in debt.) However, not only is additional paying work not prohibited by the firm – it is encouraged to a degree. The only restriction I have heard is taking full time employment that suggests you will be leaving the firm. In that case you lose the stipend. I defy you to logically show that as unreasonable or a sign of a firm that is really hoping you will just go away.
Am I pissed about the timing? Yes. Do I wish I could start working in the field I chose with the firm I chose? Yes. Is it difficult right now to find legal work so that I can gain some experience somewhere? Seriously – you know the answer. But I am still better off than some, even most, of my fellow 2009 graduates.
So to those who want to whine – go ahead. You have the right; no reasonable person can tell you that what MWE did doesn’t suck. But then man up, tighten up the belt, and go do something productive while hoping things will pick back up. That is unless you have some other path into the golden halls of Biglaw – in which case quit whining and take the other path. Otherwise accept that life is sometimes harder than you want and quit pitying yourself. Many of our classmates are also locked out of our potential salaries (they always were – that is the difference) and are currently gaining no legal experience. And they have no one to help them cover the bills while they continue searching for a lifeline.
152 – I’m impressed that MWE’s marketing department was able to whip that up on fairly short notice. I assume it was short notice, because if the firm had planned this re-deferral for any length of time, I would hope that they would have just told the incoming class that much sooner.
152 – Did you ask the partner who called you why the firm waited so long to make this decision? Given the timing, I think it’s a fair question.
As an associate at a big firm, I want to apologize for any of those in my position who are complaining about the “entitlement” of re-deferred associates. The fact is that we all know that this situation sucks for deferred people. However, we also know that in many cases, if a firm brings on a first year, it will lay off a more senior associate to make room for the first year. It’s a really awful reality any way you slice it.
I am sincerely sorry to see so many of my friends deferred and re-deferred, and I think the majority of associates feel the same as I do. Good luck to you all.
154 – isn’t one possible answer simply that the firm wanted to wait as long as possible to see if work picked up so that they could avoid the re-deferral?
153 – I’m not sure that I understand what you are referring to by your comment about MWE marketing unless you are trying to suggest that I am with MWE marketing, which I assure you I am not.
154 – Yes I did, and the answer I received was less that concise and clear, but it was something along the lines of 156’s proposed answer. Again, though I am generally a pessimist, I am giving MWE the benefit of the doubt here. Why? Well, I fail to see how I benefit in any way from simply recriminating or forming conspiracy theories. No matter what their reason for the wait – it is what it is.
-152
153 – I’m not sure that I understand what you are referring to by your comment about MWE marketing unless you are trying to suggest that I am with MWE marketing, which I assure you I am not.
154 – Yes I did, and the answer I received was less that concise and clear, but it was something along the lines of 156’s proposed answer. Again, though I am generally a pessimist, I am giving MWE the benefit of the doubt here. Why? Well, I fail to see how I benefit in any way from simply recriminating or forming conspiracy theories. No matter what their reason for the wait – it is what it is.
-152
152 wrote: “The only restriction I have heard is taking full time employment that suggests you will be leaving the firm. In that case you lose the stipend. I defy you to logically show that as unreasonable or a sign of a firm that is really hoping you will just go away.”
Um….so basically, you can’t take paying legal employment. Which is probably the only way you would get any legal experience until October 2010 as the “public service” sector is saturated. So you can either (i) work at Macy’s or (ii) sit on your ass and develop no useful legal experience until 10/2010 arrives and you get cut off completely.
Generous firm!
@159:
My understanding is that on a case by case basis contract work could be acceptable. Clearly conflicts are an issue. But what do you want from MWE here exactly? It is already established that they have further deferred and that sucks. Even I, as a deferred, cannot say that it would be reasonable on my part to go accept full time legal work somewhere else and continue taking a stipend from McDermott. That is just asinine. And they certainly do not prohibit you from taking that other full-time job. This is an employment at will country – by all means go take that job and that experience. Just don’t expect them to pay you while you do it or necessarily take you back at the other end.
And yes the public service sector is saturated if you are only willing to look at big name charities and government positions. There are still, however, many small organizations that could always use help and you could always man up and see about pro-bono criminal defense. I am not in New York, so I don’t know the situation there, but something tells me that there is no lack of people in the Bronx who need a little legal help. Granted it might take a little initiative to find such work. God forbid.
And yes, 10/2010 could arrive and I get cut off completely. That would suck and piss me off. But, as stated earlier, I fail to see how that leaves me any worse off that many of my classmates out jobless and searching right now and I will have had at least a few months of income at about the level many of them can ever expect to make.
Seriously, isn’t it time for the pity party to end?
-152
After reading and hearing about all the sanctions and complaints about McDermott for the past few years, why would anyone, especially a new attorney, want to work there? After the first deferral, wouldn’t the smart 1L look for employment at another firm?
161,
You are absolutely correct. The place sucks. See what you can do to find something else.
PHJW deferred associates will start on time. I have it from the inside.
So, why is this AmLaw 20 firm deferring people so late in the game? As one of America’s top firms, shouldn’t they have figured out long before now that they wouldn’t need as many people?
152 -
You are either an MWE drone or completely delusional. These “deferreds” wasted the past year relying on an offer from what they thought to be a reputable–and honorable–firm. They could have found something else, but (naively) believed that an offer from MWE meant something. Yes, we live in uncertain times, but there is a way to do things properly.
Again, the issue here is simple–MWE displayed horrible management by waiting until the last possible second to defer. There is absolutely no excuse. Any rational hiring partner would have determined staffing needs months ago, especially when he knows that a bunch of recent law grads are relying on having a job.
So, MWE hiring partners, if you are reading this, just admit to yourselves that you fucked up.
It appears that it is McDermott’s “character” to say one thing and do another. From what has been reported on this site, McDermott routinely commits to bonuses, promotions, etc. and then fails to deliver on any of those commitments. Isn’t that what TPM did to deserve their sanctions. From the Fed Cir papers and argument, it seems he represented to the court that he would not use certain evidence to establish infringment but only use it to support his damages theory. However, at the end of the trial it was clear that their strategy was to use it to mislead the jury into evaluating it for infringment purposes since it was used by their infringment witness and not their damages expert. Something is seems so wrong about that place.
160 – “Even I, as a deferred, cannot say that it would be reasonable on my part to go accept full time legal work somewhere else and continue taking a stipend from McDermott.”
You are an idiot. It is completely reasonable to take other full time legal employment so long as it does not conflict. Wait til they kick your ass to the curb and then.
167 – I did not say that it would not be reasonable to take other full time legal employment. I said that it would be unreasonable to do so AND accept a stipend. Sorry if I have too high an ethical standard for you.
-160
The original start date was supposed to be JANUARY 4th. They called us and informed us about the re-deferment on Friday, DECEMBER 4th. Exactly 1 month before we were supposed to start.
I started looking for apartments, and even emailed them to re-confirm on Monday Nov 30th..and they said that they will try to get back to me with more info.
$5,000 a month for an indefinite start date is LITTLE, especially since we didn’t get ANYTHING for the last 4 months!
Many of us figured that we should just relax for the 3 months after our post-bar trip and especially during the holidays — no point in starting another job.
BUT now, I realize I should have been job hunting…..
very very very very annoying, inconsiderate…
How many people have been deferred?
Some one earlier wrote about “20″?
Who gave them that number?
58 -
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
146 – can your in-house relatives help me out?
How many people have been deferred here? Out of how many?
173-
20 incoming associates firm wide
169 – good luck on your job search
At least you did not sign a lease. I bet some of the other deferred associates aren’t as lucky.
Incomings…don’t plan on having a job. MWE just laid off associates with not enough hours b/c the firm doesn’t have enough work. Three in Chicago Trial let go. Rumor is that one of them is former federal appellate clerk. Firms don’t lay those people off unless its really bad.
Now they are “encouraging” (used very loosely) the deferred associates to do this secondment deal. Man, they are really trying to milkkkkkkk that $5K they are giving us!
83,
actually i was told 20 people were deferred
177 – the secondment where you are strongly encouraged to go to work for a client for free, indefinitely?
#35/72 is a FRAUD and a COWARD! MWE-NYC only had three re-deferrals, all from Corporate, and nobody that required a plane ticket.
Man up 35 and stop cowering behind the NYC re-deferrals just to get your message out. You’re a weasel and a bitch, but you already know this!
wow. $5,000 a month to sit at home and masturbate. too good to be true. who says biglaw is a meat grinder? (unless you count masturbation of course)
wow. $5,000 a month to sit at home and masturbate. too good to be true. who says biglaw is a meat grinder? (unless you count masturbation of course)
If you “grind” it, I think you may be doing it wrong.
Yet another up and comer gone from MWE LA to that other firm that pretty much has taken all the good guys. WTF is going on at MWE? That ship is sinking fast.
what do people think about mcgregian going to KLGates?