Ed. note: Have a question for next week? Send it in to advice@abovethelaw.com
Ed. note II: Holy s**t.
Dear ATL,
I was a summer associate at a mid-sized AmLaw 100 firm in ‘07, where I was assigned a mentor (hereinafter “Mentor”) who was a junior associate that summer. I am now a junior-ish associate at the firm, and Mentor is a mid-level in my department. Mentor continues to be a good friend, and we often hang out outside of work. At work, Mentor is responsible for channeling a lot of work my way and is my go-to person for questions and review. Partners and other associates widely regard Mentor as the rising star in our department….
UPDATE: What follows contains adult content. There are no images, but there is description of sexual activity. We’ve placed the rest of the discussion after the jump; if you think you might be offended, stop reading here.
Mentor is very attractive, straight, and non-homophobic. So non-homophobic, in fact, that last fall, after some friendly badgering and drinking, he let me fellate him while he watched lesbian porn. Much to my delight, Mentor found this arrangement convenient/pleasurable/better than his hand/whatever, and it continued sporadically for a few months.
In January, Mentor got a steady girlfriend and my “services” were not further retained. I completely understood and was happy for them.
Cut to two weeks ago, Mentor and I are at a summer event at a bar, when Mentor suggests that we “resume services” occasionally. This felt not OK with me – Mentor and his girlfriend have been exclusive and serious for several months now – so I declined, mentioning not wanting to interfere and feeling weird about the girlfriend not knowing. Mentor has since repeated the suggestion and dismissed my concerns as non-threatening to his relationship and voiced frustration that the girlfriend doesn’t let him watch porn during sex. I am still not comfortable with this situation. On the other hand, I think that continuing to help him out will secure my friendship and working relationship with Mentor. I credit him as the reason I was not laid off, and Mentor will probably be a partner in my department in a few years. I also rather enjoy having his erection in my mouth. Should I keep being such a sucker?
– Telemachus
Dear Telemachus,
Ah, the old “should I routinely perform oral sex for a straight male co-worker who watches lesbian porn while bitterly complaining about his girlfriend in order to strengthen our friendship and secure great work” question. We get this every week.
The short answer is: if you don’t care that you’re cuckolding Mentor’s girlfriend or that this dude is essentially pulling rank on you/sexually harassing you in order to get you to re-administer “services,” then administer away. If you do care (and it sounds like you do), then stop NOW and GTF away from this dude and GTFO of that working environment. But it’s your call re: whether you value your job over your dignity.
Other assorted thoughts:
1. Question has to be fake.
2. If you’re trading oral sex for registered debt offerings, time to reevaluate.
3. Remember to ask Elie if answering this question will ruin my Google footprint.
4. If a straight guy receives oral sex from another guy and a tree falls in the woods, does it count if there’s lesbian porn?
5. Excited to see traffic numbers on this post.
Your friend,
Marin
Obviously, you’re being harassed and thus you have all of the legal remedies available to any person in that situation. You don’t have to take this.
Unless you want to. And it kind of sounds like you do (not that there’s anything wrong with that). You’re not really asking a sexual harassment question, you’re asking for moral guidance on whether it’s okay to help your mentor cheat on his girlfriend. The work relationship only slightly complicates the situation.
I can’t give you any moral guidance — because I’m a liberal and that’s not how we roll. But I’m a big proponent of “you don’t s*** where you eat.” It’s a very good rule and people ignore it at their peril. But since you’ve already done the deed, there’s really only one way you can go: be the best “sucker” you can be.
If you are going to bang somebody that you work with, a superior no less, then you simply must do so with the highest quality. Your mentor should spend his frigid nights with his girlfriend dreaming of your mouth. You’re at a severe power imbalance, and the only way to flip it is to have the mentor constantly desperate for your stuff.
Sadly, it appears that your mentor doesn’t really like you, he likes the things you let him do. It sounds like you’re engaged in some low-grade prostitution instead of a passionate love affair. If this guy could get a duck to suck while watching lesbian porn, it sounds like he would.
If it were me (and I can’t imagine what kind of dystopian, future-Elie world would have to happen to put me in your situation) I’d take my sexual harassment settlement and walk away. Orally stimulate as many men as you like, but don’t be a sucker.
– Guy who keeps his kitchen clean
Earlier: Prior installments of pls hndle thx
Morale guidance?
Oh Lord.
This is great. This is just what I want to read here. Seriously. Thanks. Thanks so much for this.
Guys in my high school used to fellate their straight friends all the time. It was no big deal.
I find ATL much more enjoyable when read to the dulcet ones of a vuvuzela.
http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.abovethelaw.com
This arrangement is my wet dream come true.
I think Nancy Regan gave the best advice: JUST SAY NO. It's not like this guy can make much of a fuss over it. Does he really want this thing blowing up in his face (no pun intended)? And I sure as hell wouldn't quit my job over it — do you really want to be looking for a new job in a market affected by a Democrat-controlled Congress? I don't think so.
I think Nancy Regan gave the best advice: JUST SAY NO. It's not like this guy can make much of a fuss over it. Does he really want this thing blowing up in his face (no pun intended)? And I sure as hell wouldn't quit my job over it — do you really want to be looking for a new job in a market affected by a Democrat-controlled Congress? I don't think so.
Typical antisocial BigLaw toolbox. Instead of making a comment on this crazy post, AB decides to point out a typo. Get a life you boring sack of shit.
“Morale guidance” indeed. The “morale guidance” phrase is repeated twice in the advice from “Guy who keeps his kitchen clean.” So its not a typo, its a failure to understand the difference between “moral” and “morale.” “Guy who keeps his kitchen clean” reminds me of someone else we hear from on this blog from time to time, someone who has trouble writing error-free prose . . . . .
That sure sounds like the situation I am in. No, couldn't be. Must be some other mentor around town.
Guys in my fraternity used to do it all the time, too. It was sort of what being in a frat was all about.
- Frat Stud wannabe
First time poster here. I've been reading this blog for years and its the hilarious comments that keep me coming back for more. The ones ripping on Elie are okay, but TYPOS?????? I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE TYPOS. Come on. The typo police have got to get a life. Just stop. Please, please stop.
Best read while listening to “The Situation's” new rap song. “Whoa, what a Situation.”
“Mentor is very attractive, straight, and non-homophobic.”
WRONG!! Any dude that begs another dude suck on his package is NOT straight in my book.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-the...
True DAT!
Yet another fantastic bit of insightful writing and rigorous analysis by the omniscient Elie Mystal.
He isn't just “cuckolding Mentor’s girlfriend” – he is cock-holding Mentor.
One problem with Telemachus making a sexual harassment complaint is that Telemachus himself initiated the original arrangement, and actually “badgered” Mentor into agreeing to it – “after some friendly badgering and drinking, he let me fellate him while he watched lesbian porn. . . .” An initially consensual relationship can become non-consensual, but an employment lawyer would probably say that this is not a great fact pattern for bringing a claim.
True or not, this was a great read. Thanks for brightening up my afternoon!
My favorite part of this whole thing was all of the Oedipal issues raised by the fellow in question giving himself the handle of Telemachus.*
*Odysseus's son in The Odyssey; grew up not knowing his father and having to help his mother Penelope stave off her suitors; meets his father for the first time in battle against said suitors. After battle, Odysseus wanders off into the hinterland to find the sweet release of death. I'll let you fill in all of the Oedipal issues from that synopsis and the situation at hand.
Dear Pseudo-AutoAdmit Forum:
I know you probably won't believe this, but I really happened. I work at this law firm and have this mentor….
Dear AboveTheLaw:
Please prepare to defend my IIED action.
Thank you,
Scarred For Life, JD
Pics or it didn't happen.
i clicked the link thinking, this probably won't be the most insane question i've ever read… i was wrong.
So basically you guys told him to go ahead and continue to be a prostitute.
Seriously, that is what he is. If he has sex with a person in order to keep his job, he is having sex for money.
And you slander liberals everywhere by saying that liberals are not about judgments, so go to it.
If the mentor reads ATL he will clearly know this post was about him, and probably fire the kid for asking.
Lat, step up and suck this man's dick. You know you want to.
That's totally not gay. If Mentor were reciprocating or letting the guy stick a finger up his ass during the BJ, then that would be gay. This arrangement is just one friend doing another friend a favor.
Want to know who at your office is a closet case? Download the Grindr application for your iPhone. Grindr is the rage among gay men because, like FourSquare, the application allows gay men to find other gay men in real time for impromptu JO / BJ sessions. As behavioral patterns have shown, gay men love anonymous sex (they do not require “get to know you” time) and are 16 times more sexually active than heterosexual men (75+ partners annually) – meaning that most affluent gay men (i.e. gay lawyers) are on Grindr. So if the Grindr application radar indicates that a “Grindee” is on your floor, you can usually use process of elimination to determine who the covert doo doo masher is.
Hey Elie, is this “dystopian, future-Elie world” also one where you continue to be a student loan deadbeat and you _still_ haven't gotten admitted to the NY bar?
Why doesn't he pretend he is now in a steady relationship of his own and tell the Mentor that his new boyfriend doesn't like other people “sampling his goods”?
By the way -”I also rather enjoy having his erection in my mouth” is a little too much information in a situation like like this. I don't want to sit at my desk imaging his “mentor's” taste & smell” if you get my drift.
No, we don't need pics. Well, maybe Lat might want to see them, but that's it.
Somebody sounds jealous.
Digusting and a made-up story as well. A new low for ATL, although I am not suprised that ATL prints such garbage now.
I think he was working this angle (among others):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentor
I am pretty sure this happened at Skadden. All those dudes are closet queers.
Look at the byline, dickbag
I'm confused. Why is the existence of a girlfriend a concern or consideration? Would the existence of a wife be? Telemachus has made no promises and taken no vows. It is not Telemachus's place to worry about the chick.
(btw, Mentor does not qualify as staright. Bi at best.)
Did Lat send in this question? Regardless, Lat (and Kash), you should provide your views. This question is just too awesome to leave it to Marin and Elie.
Agreed – where is Lat on this? His absence makes me suspect he was the asker (if not sucker).
I thought this question was real until I read the last 2 sentences. It made for an entertaining post, but there's no way it was real.
Please identify firm so I can send my resume.
I fail to see the problem – you seem to like Mentor, you seem to like your job, you definitely like Mentor's…package, and you seem emotionally/psychologically fine with the arrangement. So keep the entertainment and keep your career. You are not responsible for Mentor's Girlfriend's happiness – that's Mentor's problem.
True. What retards like this fail to realize is that dudes are hornier than chicks. Thus, when you have two dudes, sex is much more likely to happen. If dudes could get chicks to agree to sex as often as they wanted to have sex, then straight guys would be having just as much sex as gay guys.
I just shot a HUGE load reading this story. Thanks ATL!
I'm sorry, but Mentor is not “straight.” Perhaps he's not quite gay (or he doesn't realize why his girlfriend isn't doing it for him), but his proclivity for having another male blow him precludes categorization as heterosexual.
I wish this story was about two women instead.
What's really disturbing is that 14 people 'liked' this comment.
I'm more interested in the fact that law firms are saving associates based on whose cock they suck.
That's next week.
Classic Onion.
At the shitbag law firm where I work, one of the notorious mass layoffs firms, there were a LOT of accusations, behind closed doors of course, that certain people were saved because they'd fucked partners. EEOC should get on this.
No its totally gay – unless the guy looks like a tranny or has a really great head of hair that “Mentor” can hold on to. You can't get off on another guy licking your package and not have a little “homo” in you. It's just on the downlow, not ready to come out yet.
Enjoy your lesbian porn
I don't understand — why can't liberals also believe in morals?
Umm, by saying that “dudes are hornier than chicks”–you reveal a lot about yourself.
Sex. Ur doin it rong.
AutoAdmit would've immediately called flame on this crap.
but why male models?
nice flame, retard.
go back to masturbating.
Dear David Lat,
It has come to my attention that the rumors of your being gay are greatly exaggerated. I have heard from a reliable source that you are not gay; it is your boyfriend that is the gay one.
Mentor: “Now hold on team, Gary has already proven to me that he is 100% committed to the firm. He proved it last night by sucking my cock.”
don't you mean enjoy YOU lesbian porn?
Why isn't this the first issue coming to peoples' minds? If he was saved from a layoff because he sucked cock, then that means someone else was lathamed because he/she didn't
Why isn't this the first issue coming to peoples' minds? If he was saved from a layoff because he sucked cock, then that means someone else was lathamed because he/she didn't
Literary masterpiece—that is, for whoever made this up. Funny as hell, but certainly fictitious.
Literary masterpiece—that is, for whoever made this up. Funny as hell, but certainly fictitious.
Well at least I'm “doing it wrong” very frequently…
Also, care to explain wtf you mean?
Really? Everything else in the story was shocking and absurd, but that little nugget evinced a yawn. Not news.
How does one get to be a junior level associate at an AmLaw 100 firm without knowing what “straight” means?
Although his willingness to be so subservient speaks favorably to his chances of advancement in Big Law. Still, ugh! If this superior is married (as it were) to his identity as “straight,” the guy sucking his dick is eventually going to be a liability, and he will get the axe. Now or later.
How does one get to be a junior level associate at an AmLaw 100 firm without knowing what “straight” means?
Although his willingness to be so subservient speaks favorably to his chances of advancement in Big Law. Still, ugh! If this superior is married (as it were) to his identity as “straight,” the guy sucking his dick is eventually going to be a liability, and he will get the axe. Now or later.
Should I Be Honest?
Dear Abby:
I am facing a very serious problem. You see, I am a Vietnam-era deserter from the U.S. Marines, and I have a cousin who works for Microsoft. My mother peddles Nazi literature to Girl Scouts and my father (a former dentist) is in jail for 30 years for molesting most of his patients while they were under anesthesia.
The sole supports of our large family, including myself and my $500-a-week heroin habit, are my uncle (master pick-pocket, Benny “The Fingers”), my 70-year-old aunt Hester (a shoplifter), and my two kid sisters, who are well-known streetwalkers.
My problem is this: I have just gotten engaged to the most beautiful, sweetest girl in the world. She is just sweet sixteen, and we are going to marry as soon as she can escape from reform school.
To support ourselves, we are going to move to Mexico and start a fake Aztec souvenir factory staffed by child labor. We look forward to bringing our kids into the family business.
But I am worried that my family will not make a good impression on hers. In your opinion, Should I, or shouldn't I, tell her about my cousin who works for Microsoft?
Yours
“Desperate”
In all seriousness, Mentor sounds like a self-hating closet case. I wouldn't worry about the girlfriend, because sooner or later Mentor is going to realize that he's gay and dump her. Better sooner rather than later.
If you have nothing of worth to post about, than please DON'T post. This was complete garbage. New low for ATL.
If you have nothing of worth to post about, than please DON'T post. This was complete garbage. New low for ATL.
Twas the most interesting thing I read all day.
Ah! Further cogent analysis on a weighty and relevant legal topic by the ever-thoughtful members of the ATL staff.
Is the senior associate cute at least?
Okay, so I would totally think this was fake, but I KNOW THIS GUY.
OMG, the story sounds way too familiar, and then throw in the style of writing in the e-mail . . .
I can confirm that this story is true and the activity in question is occurring at a firm that rhymes with “Fat Walleter.” (CWT for you non-rhymers.)
Wow.
I mean that if you're actually good at sex, women are as horny/hornier than dudes. So, if you're doing it often, I'm glad I'm not her, is all.
I just hope he knows to rinse his mouth. Also that employment discrimination cases generally pay out very little: http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2010/06/18/most-e...
Is this some new loan repayment system?
http://www.mydebtorsprison.com
Telemachus is soon to be screwed. There is essentially no way he can come out ahead (no pun intended, but nice anyway)
Option 1: he squeals, and goes for the EEOC complaint. His career at this firm is over, no matter how right he is. An associate who sucks cock to keep his/her job is not partner material, and too much of a stain on the old blue dress to show in public. Unless the associate is John Roberts, or John Robert's gay son, as soon as the arrangement is common knowledge, the countdown to dismissal begins. Best possible outcome is a year's salary and banishment from the legal establishment of the metro area. Could step down to a lower prestige level where telemachus remains unknown.
Option 2: keep sucking the salami, and hope for the best. Career at firm has a median expected life of 2 years. Mentor will find another gay summer associate to suck his meat, then Telemachus is just an old creepy guy with something on his chin. When Mentor is partner, he will not risk his position for a mid-level associate. As soon as Mentor marries or comes out officially, T is no longer useful. At best, Teelmachus is transferred to another department for dismissal. At worst, Mentor will fire T himself. T either goes quietly, or complains, and gets half year severance.
Option 3. Stop sucking. T's work will still suck, and dismissal will loom. An EEOC complaint will be treated as standard reaction to firing, and Firm knows mentor is gay. The threat has no teeth (good thing). A consensual kneeling is not likely to get a 7 figure settlement. Best hope: half year severance.
Option 4: slink away to another firm in shame, keeping your mouth literally shut about this behavior in the future. Only hope for a continued career in this Metro area.
If you care more about BJ's than your clients, your legal career will be short and thorny.
Can mid-level associates really fire people or is he going to have to point this post out to a partner first?
It barely tastes like anything; I think women are grossed out by the idea of it and less by the taste. Men have been “dealing” with “the final product” since their balls dropped. It’s just more familiar to them.
actions speak louder than words. dick in male’s mouth = gay.