The American Bar Association recently convened a white collar crime conference and had a panel discussion about threats to the rule of law… which, at this point, is less an academic topic and more of a “look around you” situation. Panelists gathered to discuss what many legal observers view as a constitutional crisis playing out inside the United States Department of Justice under Attorney General Pam Bondi.
And then there was John Lauro.
Lauro, best known for representing Donald Trump in his criminal matters, arrived with a take so disconnected from the room that it may as well have been delivered via carrier pigeon from an alternate universe.
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While other panelists described unprecedented pressure on the DOJ and the erosion of norms meant to keep prosecutions independent from political whims, Lauro had a different assessment entirely.
According to Lauro, the Department of Justice is actually doing great. The DOJ is “in a better place” than a year earlier, Lauro said, “because I have the unique experience of representing a political figure who was probably more abused by the criminal justice system in America than any other political figure ever.”
“In a better place”? Like the family dog you told the kids went to live on a farm? Come on, now — that’s what you tell kids about a pet that’s died.
And perhaps it was more honest than Lauro intended — because the rule of law has indeed crossed that rainbow bridge under Bondi.
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Well, if Lauro expected polite nodding, he misread the room.
According to reports, when audience member Mark Kokanovich, a former federal prosecutor in Arizona, pressed Lauro to explain how the situation could possibly have improved, the question drew applause from attendees.
Lauro’s explanation did not exactly restore confidence. “It’s very clear,” Lauro said. “We’re not prosecuting the leading political opponent to President Trump right now.” Easy there — because it’s not for lack of effort. Under Trump’s DOJ, New York Attorney General Letitia James, former FBI director James Comey, and multiple members of Congress have all been targeted and it is only the, ahem, rule of law preventing the naked prosecution of political enemies.
Then another attendee, former New Jersey federal prosecutor Mitchell Epner, decided to skip the niceties entirely.
“I wanted to thank Mr. Lauro for admitting the emperor has no clothes — the rule of law is dead because the people in this room and the Department of Justice pissed off President Trump,” Epner said.
He continued, “We have a president who can dictate what is done and what is not done. Thank you for admitting that the dictator in place in the White House has killed the rule of law. I really appreciate that.”
Yes, people clapped.
Lauro responded in a pretty juvenile way. “I know this has been a therapy session for you, and I hope that has helped,” Lauro replied. “I know this is an emotional time for you.” At which point someone in the audience said the thing out loud, “You’re a clown.”
The pushback didn’t just come from the audience. It also came from the stage.
Moderator Sandy Weinberg of Zuckerman Spaeder has known Lauro for more than four decades — they were once law partners. But familiarity did not translate into indulgence.
When Lauro defended the idea that the president can effectively dictate prosecutions, Weinberg cut in, “I can’t believe that you think that that’s normal or good that one person can dictate who the Department of Justice investigates and indicts.”
But Lauro used the Supreme Court’s immunity decision as a shield, “That’s what the Supreme Court said.” As if it weren’t already obvious enough that decision was the nadir of the Roberts Court.
What the exchange laid bare is that the MAGA legal worldview isn’t really about legal principles so much as grievance narratives wrapped in constitutional vocabulary. When the theory starts with “Donald Trump was the most abused political figure in American history,” the rest of the analysis tends to collapse into whatever conclusion best serves that premise.
And that’s how you end up at a rule of law panel arguing that the justice system is healthier than ever when the reality — the DOJ rebranded into the president’s personal law firm and investigating his enemies on a deranged whim — tells a different story.
If that’s the definition of a “better place,” then yes — the rule of law is absolutely there.
Right next to that childhood goldfish.
Kathryn Rubino is a Senior Editor at Above the Law, host of The Jabot podcast, and co-host of Thinking Like A Lawyer. AtL tipsters are the best, so please connect with her. Feel free to email her with any tips, questions, or comments and follow her on Twitter @Kathryn1 or Mastodon @[email protected].