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SMU Dedman School Of Law Alum Hanna Kim, Punam Kaji, And Ann Chao Sheu On Launching The Podium, Representation, And AAPI Heritage Month

The Podium aims to amplify voices, advance and support careers, and create authentic connections for APA women lawyers.

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Hanna Kim

“A simple trip to the market, thought the streets were safe / Turned targets, I speak up for my people’s sake / From this pandemic, I’m hopeful that we’ll see escape / Until then, love’s the only vaccine for hate.” — MC Jin

This week, I had the opportunity to catch up with Hanna Kim, Punam Kaji, and Ann Chao Sheu.

Kim is an associate attorney at Zelle LLP.

Punam Kaji

Kaji is assistant general counsel at Ben E. Keith Company. And Sheu is a former practicing attorney and current entrepreneur coach. Earlier this year, Kim, Kaji, and Sheu — along with several other Asian Pacific American (APA) women lawyers in the Dallas metro area — launched The Podium.

Ann Chao Sheu

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The Podium aims to amplify voices, advance and support careers, and create authentic connections for APA women lawyers.

Over the past year, I have witnessed COVID-19 pods for socializing and engagement pods for LinkedIn, but I haven’t seen a professional pod quite like The Podium bloom during this pandemic era. The rise and success of this group as well as its embrace of an intimate community and authentic relationships during these trying times is a testament to their charge and the organization’s charter.

Kim, Kaji, and Sheu are key members of the local Dallas and national AAPI legal communities. I continue to be impressed by each one’s career journey and personal maturation. And I left our conversation inspired and hopeful that our community will maintain its momentum long past AAPI Heritage Month.

Without further ado, here is a (lightly edited and condensed) write-up of our conversation:

Renwei Chung (RC): Can you share with our audience a bit about your backgrounds and why you became attorneys?

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Hanna Kim (HK): I am a first-generation immigrant from Korea. I was the first in my family to have the opportunity to pursue a higher education due to the sacrifices of my parents. I acted as my parents’ translator and advocate from an early age, and there are clear moments I remember of them being frustrated and defeated.

I attribute these moments as the reason I wanted to become an attorney. However, what really motivated me to become an advocate was seeing my parents help others in need even with their own limitations. My parents illustrated the impact of being an advocate for others, and I believe that has shaped the person I am now.

Ann Chao Sheu (AS): From a very young age, I loved being an advocate for others, always fighting for what I thought was just and fair. In my legal career, I practiced business and employment law and then went to the Collin County DA’s office to lead the diversion program. We created a probation path that worked with local entrepreneurs to provide life and job skills training to program participants.

While I’m no longer practicing law, I am continuing to work with entrepreneurs and advocate for others through my work as an Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) Implementer. Now, I work with entrepreneurial leadership teams, and I advocate, teach, and coach them to lead a better business and build a better life.

Punam Kaji (PK): I am from San Antonio, Texas, and the daughter of immigrants from India who immigrated here in the 1970s. From a young age, I wanted to be an attorney.  I would stand on a dining table chair at 4 years old and orate about something or another, it was comedic but also a calling of sorts.

In college, I focused on government and policy and decided to go to law school to see where further studying the law would take me.  I have always wanted to use my power as an attorney for good. I work now as an in-house labor and employment attorney.

RC: What makes The Podium different from other legal professional organizations?

AS: I knew we could create something special in the APA legal community by cultivating a sisterhood where I’m truly seen, heard, and understood; a sisterhood where we support each other through it all — the good and bad.

Our members serve as each other’s personal Board of Directors — a safe place where we could be vulnerable and authentic and share both our struggles and our wild-crazy dreams.  The Podium is that and so much more! It is completely unique, and we are very intentional about keeping it that way.

HK: The Podium is an intentional space for Asian women lawyers to amplify and support one another’s growth. The goal is not to grow the organization, the goal is for members to build authentic connections in order to support each other in a tangible way.

The Podium is a network that supports Asian women lawyers to reach their “full potential” as personally set and defined by each member. It is a space for Asian women lawyers to feel comfortable taking the stage through this intimate network. The Podium provides a platform for members to achieve their individual goals, and I think that makes us pretty special.

RC: What motivated you to launch The Podium?

HK: The name of the organization sheds light as to our “why.” Asian women tend to be stereotyped as meek, unassertive individuals who don’t necessarily seek opportunities at the top.

We saw a space that was both necessary and missing — The Podium is a platform for Asian women lawyers to feel empowered to take the stage, use their voice, and receive the support necessary to achieve their goals.

PK: APA Women Lawyers give so much to the legal community. The women in this organization are all givers, having given hours of service to bar associations and community groups. Now, this organization looks inward and works on personal goals with the support of others.

There was really no group similar to what we are doing, but we all needed this — a group focused on our own development. We realized if we want this to exist, we should create it! It reminds me of Mindy Kaling’s quote: “If you don’t see a clear path for what you want, sometimes you have to make it yourself.”

RC: Why are you drawn to this type of labor of love?

PK: Time is so precious, but this project is worth the time because I believe The Podium’s impact and influence will be immeasurable. If each of the women that come through this group finds support to identify and achieve her goals, with a sisterhood to help her dream big, I can only imagine the influence and impact we can have not only for each individual woman but for the community all around her.

RC: How would you define success for The Podium over the next few years?

AS: By using EOS, we have clearly defined what success looks like for The Podium. We know that within 10 years, we want to have helped 25 members achieved their own dream big 10-year goals. By 2024, we will have cultivated a community of sisterhood that lifts each other up and breaks the mold for APA women lawyers.

Over the next year, we are working to build our online presence, starting with LinkedIn, and later this year, we will have our first external event and kick-off for our inaugural membership application cycle.  We hope that by the end of this year, our eight current members will be able to credit The Podium for positive change in their lives — both professionally and personally.

PK: Our group was already full of rock stars, but we are being intentional about tracking the award nominations, articles, speaking engagements, service accolades, etc., for this group, and just to name a few — Ashley Yen has been nominated as a finalist for the 2020 DFW Corporate Counsel Award’s Rookie by the ACC-DFW, Meyling Ly Ortiz has been nominated as a finalist for 2020 DFW Pro Bono and Public Service Award by the ACC-DFW, and Punam Kaji was named Young Lawyer of the Year by the Tarrant County Young Lawyers Association. 

RC: Why do you believe representation is important?

HK: Representation is essential in two aspects. First, representation empowers diverse communities and second, it leads to a more accepting, inclusive society. The Podium seeks to advance the representation and elevate the voices of Asian women lawyers.

I was personally influenced by my mentors Meyling Ly Ortiz, Stacey Cho Hernandez, Ann Sheu, and Punam Kaji as a law student. They showed me that there is space for people like me. Representation is key in sharing diverse perspectives and ideas that ultimately help us grow collectively. Representation carries even more significance within the legal industry, as our profession involves representing and advocating for the interests of all people.

RC: What advice do you have for law students and recent law school graduates?

PK: It is your turn to be the decision-maker in your life. Until now, you may have been choosing from limited options on which law school to go to, and which job to pick.

Now the road map is yours to create, and your life is bigger than your career path alone. This can be daunting, but seeing it this way helped me take ownership of my journey and enjoy it instead of focusing on the stress of the day-to-day grind of legal work. It also helped me practice more autonomy and take the right risks for my career.

RC: Given that we are approaching the end of AAPI Heritage Month, do you have any thoughts on the current state of the state as it relates to AAPI issues?

PK: Our group all identifies as AAPI, but we are diverse — Korean American, Taiwanese American, Chinese American, Cambodian American, Vietnamese American, and Indian American. We embody how the APA community’s influence grows when we work together.

Right now, AAPIs have banded together in allyship with one another and other communities of color as we build more understanding in our country around racial and ethnic diversity. It is with that spirit of solidarity that we can raise awareness about our communities and fight against hate crimes and discrimination in all forms.

HK: There are underlying, pervasive reasons that hate crimes occur. The increase in crimes against the AAPI community — many of which are attacks against the elderly and immigrant populations who have limited English proficiency — is the underlying notion that we “don’t belong here.” The media attention has brought this deep-rooted issue to the forefront, and I believe we are seeing the strength and impact of how people can collectively stand against hate in all forms.

AAPI Heritage Month is meant to celebrate the history and contributions of the AAPI community, and it is on all of us to be more intentional in becoming a more accepting, inclusive society.

RC: Is there anything else you’d like to share with our ATL audience?

PK: Lawyers are whole people, with ideas and lives beyond the billable hours and the practice of law. This group honors that by giving our members a chance to look at the big picture of their lives and dream big.

We really believe we will harness the ambition of APA Women Lawyers and our members will achieve great things for themselves, their families, and their community by being part of our sisterhood.

To the readers — I hope you stop and reflect and ask yourself how you are doing in your big picture journey as we do in this group. You deserve it!

On behalf of everyone here at Above the Law, I would like to thank Hanna Kim, Punam Kaji, and Ann Chao Sheu for sharing their stories with our audience. We wish them continued success in their careers. 

If you are interested in following up with Hanna Kim, Punam Kaji, or Ann Chao Sheu, they can be reached at hnkkim@smu.edu, punam.kaji@gmail.com, and ann@mpoweredjourney.com, respectively.

In honor of AAPI Heritage Month, be sure to check out See Us Unite For Change on Amazon Prime.

Renwei Chung is the Diversity Columnist at Above the Law. You can contact him by email at projectrenwei@gmail.com, follow him on Twitter (@fnfour), or connect with him on LinkedIn. 

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