In-House Counsel

A Long And Winding Road

There has been progress for women in general and women lawyers during the past two decades, but we still have a long way to go.

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There’s a documentary running on Netflix right now called “9 to 5.” No, it is not the 1980 movie with Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin, and Dolly Parton, although if you haven’t seen that film, you should.  It was hilarious then, filled with truths, and is still hilarious now, still filled with truths. Any woman then in the work force got it, and any woman now in the work force will get it. (The scene between Dolly Parton and Dabney Coleman is priceless.)

The “9 to 5” documentary details the history of the efforts by women in secretarial jobs in the late 1960s and early 1970s to advocate and hopefully receive better pay, better working conditions, better benefits, end sexual harassment, and improve other equality issues. They organized, but it was tough going. It’s stunning to consider how much has changed in the past 50 years and yet, how little has changed.

Women still do not have economic parity with men. While the gender pay gap has narrowed, women still make about 20% less than men do for comparable jobs. The Department of Labor thinks that the pandemic has stalled women’s progress and even reversed it, another piece of collateral damage that COVID-19 has wrought. Women will always have the childbearing and child-caring responsibilities, and they are sandwiched between caring for their kids and caring for their elders.

A recent interview in the Wall Street Journal with former PepsiCo CEO Indra Nooyi, who retired in 2018, discussed what she has on her mind. The headline of the article reads “She Pushes Businesses for the Flexibility She Never Had.”  While I haven’t read her book yet, several themes in the interview come through loud and clear. The themes are the same ones that women lawyers have been advocating for years, that all women continue to press for.

Even though Nooyi was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, she still had to contend with sexism in the boardroom. While she said that she had an “amazing and supportive board,” nonetheless, several board members routinely talked over her. I can relate. I am sure every other woman lawyer and every woman in business can relate to that experience of male interruptus. It’s a pandemic of a different kind.

She remembers how board members would rephrase what she said, saying that they would phrase what she said differently. Mansplaining, anyone? Then they would repeat exactly what she had said, but it was coming from a man, not from a woman, a woman of color, an immigrant with an MBA who ran the company. Sound familiar?

It’s hard to be the only woman in the room, Nooyi said, and thus, a critical mass of women in the room will make change easier. Women lawyers of my vintage were usually the only women in the room, be it the conference room or the courtroom. It’s better now, but only through concerted efforts and not being satisfied with the status quo. We still need more seats at the table, and not just in what I call the “peanut gallery seats.”

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Nooyi provides two examples of when she tendered her resignation due to sexist behavior. The first was at an engineering company, and she left because her male boss regularly called her “honey.”

How many times have women lawyers been called “little lady,” “honey,” or other demeaning terms? Too many to count, I imagine. It’s akin to being mistaken for the court clerk, the court reporter, the client, or the assistant who is supposed to serve coffee and take notes. Patronizing in the extreme.

At PepsiCo, on one occasion, Nooyi presented a forecast that was different from what the men had presented, and no one supported her position. Again, can any woman lawyer relate? Who speaks up for the woman? Nooyi pointed out the lack of respect for her position, that if she weren’t respected, she would leave, and PepsiCo heard her. The then CEO, Roger Enrico, called out the people who doubted her. If there’s any example of how important support from the top is, this anecdote shows it. Bad behavior of colleagues and subordinates doesn’t just evaporate on its own. If only it would.

What’s encouraging is that PepsiCo groomed women executives who moved on to CEO jobs of their own, showing the importance of mentoring and helping women to be successful not just at PepsiCo but elsewhere. It’s paying it forward, which I think is vital for every woman lawyer to do. Despite what people may believe, success is something that no one achieves all alone.

Nooyi also talked about salary disparity. When she was PepsiCo’s CFO, she learned that she was paid less than comparable men in the company. The then CEO adjusted her compensation, but, she said, the lesson learned is that women should not have to ask for pay parity. It should be a given. The disparity in compensation for women law firm partners is real.

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So, what has Nooyi been doing since retirement? Advocating for policies that have come into sharper focus since the pandemic: better childcare availability, flexible work schedules, remote working, and paid parental leave, things that she wishes she had had in her career. She had to make difficult choices, as all women and mothers in the work force did and still do. Emerging from the pandemic, workplaces may pay more attention to the things that matter to the workforce, and the topics that Nooyi advocates for are spot on.

Nooyi celebrates the progress that has been made for and by women in the past 20 years. She’s right: there has been progress for women in general and women lawyers during the past two decades, but we still have a long way to go. No laurel resting for us.

Jill Switzer has been an active member of the State Bar of California for over 40 years. She remembers practicing law in a kinder, gentler time. She’s had a diverse legal career, including stints as a deputy district attorney, a solo practice, and several senior in-house gigs. She now mediates full-time, which gives her the opportunity to see dinosaurs, millennials, and those in-between interact — it’s not always civil. You can reach her by email at oldladylawyer@gmail.com.

 

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